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Noob Developers.

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  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,021
    DMKano said:
    There are a plethora of examples of gaming done right in todays gaming climate. 
    Just not in the mmorpg genre.
    For the MMORPG? It is a stale genre that needs an intervention. 

    The high cost of MMORPGs as well as high post-launch operational cost of having to run and maintain the server/network backend + live game customer support, billing etc...

    on top of the falling customer interest in MMORPGs  - it just makes them generally too risky for investors today.

    Compare that to the simplicity of a single player game - night and day difference.

    The only thing that makes online games an enticing proposition from a financial point - constant revenue via cash shop


    Not only that but the technical challenges of creating a project that complex is,for most of us,just not worth it. Considering most mmorpg games fail to ROI it can mean years of your life work down the drain. Like the work we did on The Chronicles of Spellborn. 
    DMKanoMisterZebubKyleran

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member UncommonPosts: 321
    If there are any actual developers here it would be interesting to know... Do companies actually create reusable systems for different game features, or usually program from scratch. It seems to me that the plan of most developers is to create from scratch very often (usually using an already established engine ofcourse, not literally from scratch :P ).

    Would it not be incredibly useful to basically build game systems into modules instead of literally per project, so that you can essentially reuse for different projects and develop faster.

    This would result in games being more and more feature rich as systems would be easier to implement.
    SOE/Daybreak does that with Forgelight.
    EA does that too, they use their Frostbyte engine from FPS to Sports games.

    In general big developers/publishers do that.
    They develop an Engine that can be used for a wide variety of games so they can minimize costs and cut developing time.

    Problem with small developers is that an Engine has a sell by date, and since they have only a small team that can develop one game at a time, by the time their game is out, their Engine is already out of date.
    So they have to start from scratch for the new game.

    That's why third party Engines are getting increasingly more popular.
    Problem is that building games with third party engines, it's not as easy as it might look.
    It's of course a compromise, of course. Ideally you always want to build your own engine which is tailored to your game, but it is not always time/cost efficient.


  • GravebladeGraveblade Member UncommonPosts: 464
    If there are any actual developers here it would be interesting to know... Do companies actually create reusable systems for different game features, or usually program from scratch. It seems to me that the plan of most developers is to create from scratch very often (usually using an already established engine ofcourse, not literally from scratch :P ).

    Would it not be incredibly useful to basically build game systems into modules instead of literally per project, so that you can essentially reuse for different projects and develop faster.

    This would result in games being more and more feature rich as systems would be easier to implement.
    We use a modular approach with the UE and have for some time. The issue with that though is that works well if you are making the same kind of game over and over again. 
    We used the same A.I. logic program for Heavenly Sword as we did for Enslaved. We also reused many art streaming technologies for fidelity and sound.
    The idea though is to build technology around a game not a game around technology, if that makes sense.  
    Even with a modular design approach, which many teams use, it is not as simple as plug and play. 
    Thanks very much for the info.

    I am particularly thinking along the lines of reuse and modify for the case at hand as opposed to a pure reuse. 

    Yep that makes sense about build technology around a game as opposed to a game around technology. This does however kind of go against the principles of reuse and modular systems in programming to some extent.

    Surely if strong foundations for reuse, but with the ability to openly modify, would only be positive for development productivity in the long run. Perhaps the task is a bit too long term for most developers to invest money and time into?

    You do get this kind of thing in areas such as web development where projects are usually a lot smaller scale.

    Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with The Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
  • GravebladeGraveblade Member UncommonPosts: 464
    There are a plethora of examples of gaming done right in todays gaming climate. 
    Just not in the mmorpg genre.
    For the MMORPG? It is a stale genre that needs an intervention.
    Funnily enough though this is what I am touching on. "Done right" nowadays often happens to also include "feature less" compared to older games unfortunately. lol
    Gdemami
    Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with The Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 4,435
    TEKK3N said:
    The best games (classics) have been made by indie developers (which became big after the success of their game).
    It's been always like that and always will be.
    You forgot the last steps:
    - Successful company bought by EA.
    - EA dissolves new asset ;)
    Scot

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 4,435
    DMKano said:
    There are a plethora of examples of gaming done right in todays gaming climate. 
    Just not in the mmorpg genre.
    For the MMORPG? It is a stale genre that needs an intervention. 

    The high cost of MMORPGs as well as high post-launch operational cost of having to run and maintain the server/network backend + live game customer support, billing etc...

    on top of the falling customer interest in MMORPGs  - it just makes them generally too risky for investors today.

    Compare that to the simplicity of a single player game - night and day difference.

    The only thing that makes online games an enticing proposition from a financial point - constant revenue via cash shop


    Not only that but the technical challenges of creating a project that complex is,for most of us,just not worth it. Considering most mmorpg games fail to ROI it can mean years of your life work down the drain. Like the work we did on The Chronicles of Spellborn. 
    Most MMOs do not even get a Return on their Investment? I had no idea. (Not being snarky here.)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • AnthurAnthur Member UncommonPosts: 929
    Hard to find someone who is willing to invest a huge amount of money into a feature rich game where the result is unkown when the most successfull game concept currently is to create a map, throw 100 players and some loot into it and done. Huuuuge profit.
  • GravebladeGraveblade Member UncommonPosts: 464
    Anthur said:
    Hard to find someone who is willing to invest a huge amount of money into a feature rich game where the result is unkown when the most successfull game concept currently is to create a map, throw 100 players and some loot into it and done. Huuuuge profit.
    Hard to find because the majority are either cowards who are scared to take a risk or simply not visionaries or creatives but actually just business men.
    Gdemami
    Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with The Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
  • AmatheAmathe Member EpicPosts: 3,943
    I read the thread title to mean that someone was developing better noobs.
    MendelAlBQuirky

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • GravebladeGraveblade Member UncommonPosts: 464
    Amathe said:
    I read the thread title to mean that someone was developing better noobs.

    haha :P
    Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with The Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,308
    Because they're cheap and lazy 
    Gdemami
  • bcbullybcbully Member RarePosts: 9,338
    Anyone wanna run a dungeon?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 30,449
    Moirae said:
    Because they're cheap and lazy 
    You are talking about NOOBS right?

    ;)

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • thunderCthunderC Member EpicPosts: 1,773
    I'm quitting WOW
    “Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984


  • thunderCthunderC Member EpicPosts: 1,773
    again....
    AlBQuirkyNorseGod
    “Those who control the present, control the past and those who control the past control the future.”
    ― George Orwell, 1984


  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,411
    I'd argue with that, it is less than cheap (it is free) and also not lazy, it is more like helpfully hand-holdy (since it is a great help for those new raspberry owners).
    Wait...
    You mean NOOBS, with capitals, right?
    https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/noobs/
    :smiley:
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member RarePosts: 4,435
    bcbully said:
    Anyone wanna run a dungeon?
    Is that like walking the dog? ;)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,287
    DMKano said:
    There are a plethora of examples of gaming done right in todays gaming climate. 
    Just not in the mmorpg genre.
    For the MMORPG? It is a stale genre that needs an intervention. 

    The high cost of MMORPGs as well as high post-launch operational cost of having to run and maintain the server/network backend + live game customer support, billing etc...

    on top of the falling customer interest in MMORPGs  - it just makes them generally too risky for investors today.

    Compare that to the simplicity of a single player game - night and day difference.

    The only thing that makes online games an enticing proposition from a financial point - constant revenue via cash shop


    I agree with the night and day analogy, but we are still not seeing a plethora of new solo titles coming out to my mind. I think Indie certainly skews the PC chart to make it look like a ton of new titles are always coming out, but AAA?

    Once a gaming corporation has the games it needs to obtain a huge revenue why change that formula with something new unless the revenue starts to fall.
    KyleranAlBQuirkyGdemami

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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