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Link between LootBoxes and problem gambling proven

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Comments

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,361
    Xiaoki said:
    sayuu said:
    Myria said:
    From the paper:


    Turning to government to create the control we, both collectively and, in the main, individually seem unable or unwilling to exercise is inevitably going to lead to unintended consequences. We want government to "clean up" the mess, a mess we blame on everyone but ourselves, but inevitably that control we're asking for isn't going to just limit other people's "bad" choices, but also limit your choices in ways you (in the general, not specific) aren't going to like and aren't going to be able to adequately predict beforehand.


    To me, this is honestly just a very poor argument.   Not sure who the "we" you mention is, but it sure as heck isn't ME.  

    Here is what I said in the OP:
    My own take continues to be that they need to give ADULT consumers the information to make informed decisions and then those ADULTS should be able to do what they want.  It is also my opinion that these absolutely should be restricted from CHILDREN. Just as Alcohol is restricted.  No marketing games to kids and then hiding gambling boxes behind some fake currency of "gems" or "bucks".

    Do you see anything wrong with that?

    "wont someone think of the children" is also a very poor argument. . .
    No it's not. Thank you for showing us you lack a working moral compass.  
    Theres also a proven link between soda pop and childhood obesity.

    So, should we ban Pepsi?

    If you dont think we should ban all soda pop then you do not have a working moral compass.
    New York City is doing their best to ban it.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,361
    Currently US is going the opposite way of Europe on Gambling making it more accessible to people
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,075
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Gdemami
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,147
    I do agree loot-box are a problem not so much in games like Overwatch but ESO, TERA, Mobile APPS, ZMR, any game with heavily P2E / P2W should not be allowed although people should have control over what they spend, young people can spend their life savings on Loot-Box thus gambling.

    There are ways to fix this though and that is to put in a way for people to sell and trade loot-Box items like in PUBG.
    Gdemami
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,708
    Well I don't have time to dissect the research here right now but even the article uses the word "suggests" and concludes there's strong evidence which requires further discussion then takes the matter into their own hands of calling companies and asking them to remove the lootboxes--which is rather weird--but you chose the word "proven", which is bit of a clickbait mate. Or maybe I have missed it?

    And this is a preprint which means this research might have 0 value. The design and the method is questionable, but as I said I can't get into it and you shouldn't take my word for it. Let's see which journal would publish it first and if gets cited at all. Otherwise you can find similar unpublished research to 'prove' almost everything, specially when it comes down to human and social sciences. 

    And last but least, the authors are computer scientists. So again it is a bit of a stretch when they decided to write about complex human behavior. 

    But, I can be wrong. I'll give it a proper read and will let you know if my stance changes. 
    MadFrenchieWaanTorvalOctagon7711PhryGdemami
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Currently Playing: Lords of the Fallen
  • jusomdudejusomdude Member RarePosts: 2,706
    Loot boxes need to disappear from games. They can sell specific digital items all they want, even if they have no real value, since players know exactly what they are getting, but loot boxes are a pure and simple scam. 

    I wouldn't be surprised if they were rigged to give somewhat good items with the first ones people buy to get them hooked on buying more.
    PhryGdemami
  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.
    Gdemami
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    There is a simple way to deal with games that have loot boxes, particularly those that involve real money transactions as part of the process of obtaining/opening a loot box, have a minimum age rating of 18+ on the games and label them as being Adult content, and absolutely require proof of age for any player wishing to play them, because most of the time the games that have these gambling mechanics are aimed at minors. :|
    laseritGdemami
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,823
    edited September 2018
    DMKano said:
    Herase said:
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.


    But in real world gambling the chance of getting nothing is enormous. 

    Lootboxes always give you something of value - not the prized 1/1000 item that you are looking for but you get something useful - like crafting mats, etc...

    So lootboxes are more of RNG buying - if lootboxes had 99% chance of giving you nothing - it would be more like gambling.


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
      from a gamers perspective , loot boxes are nothing more than annoyance , I dont buy them dont care , if they give me one ill open it .. But players are buying Millions and millions of these ,so they are not going away ..

           Ya know what they remind of tho , you know when you take yer kid to Perkins for ex.. (chain Restaurant in States)

                         On the way out , and i just went thru this Sunday and i laughed to myself .. "Its a Fuggin Lootbox" 

     So on the way out next to the Gumball Machine there is the machine that for .75 cents your kid can get a Sticker ,
     
      I said to my kid as looked at the shiny stickers on the front " Which one ya wanna get "  (Marvel Heroes)

       " Hulk , i want that HUlk " he adds ..."  Thats the Ultra Rare !!"

      I give him the .75 .. he pulls the lever and gets the a Common Spidey which he likes but ..

       "Maybe next time Jr lets go"

            So whats the difference , these have been around for decades and noone screaming LootBox

     ITs a box ...

                You spend money to get a guaranteed Sticker with a chance to get Rares Ultra etc ...

     Maybe they should be banned next along with the Gumball machine that has the Rare and elusive Rainbow Gumball in it tthat every kid wants ...
    KyleranGdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,567
    DMKano said:


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
    So you're saying that they're like a box of chocolates, Forrest? :)

    Good point though: they are a different kind of thing that differentiates them from all-or-nothing gambling games. And those all or nothing games are the ones we usually think of when we think about gambling.

    But that's just one type of gambling. There is nothing in the standard dictionary definition of gambling ( the activity or practice of playing at a game of chance for money or other stakes) that excludes the way loot boxes work from also being considered another type of gambling.

    Also "always get something decent" is a bit of a stretch for some games unless you're really, really easy to please.
    Gdemami
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,973
    Perhaps it's more about the addictive effects of gaming in general.  
    Fortnite Cited in Over 200 UK Divorce Court Cases - Game Rant
    It's an extreme but my point would be that their are degrees of gaming addiction that make it harder for some people to pay their bills or even keep their job.
    Gdemami

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,296
    I'm not so sure it's a gambling problem as much as it is a problem that gamers feel they "have to win" all the time and lootboxes may offer them better stuff to help them win......ALso most gamers I know have no clue about money and will throw away of cash on games.....Thats how kickstarter became popular because they know how easily gamers and their money are parted.
    Octagon7711Gdemami
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,959
    DMKano said:
    Herase said:
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.


    But in real world gambling the chance of getting nothing is enormous. 

    Lootboxes always give you something of value - not the prized 1/1000 item that you are looking for but you get something useful - like crafting mats, etc...

    So lootboxes are more of RNG buying - if lootboxes had 99% chance of giving you nothing - it would be more like gambling.


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
    Loot boxes don't have value since, in 99% of the cases, you can't trade/sell it's content.

    Their are either cosmetics binded to your character/account or the trade options doesn't even exist in said game.

    Predatory schemes are predatory schemes and if you rely on people tossing money on you to have fun because you designed your game to be shitty looking or having boring parts that could be skipped with mtx then sure, I just won't play your shitty game. But yeah, one whale counts as 10 of me so... 

    And I can't believe people defend this.
    Gdemami
    Discord ID: Night # 6102
    Current playing: 
    Elite Dangerous

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,429
    DMKano said:
    Herase said:
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.


    But in real world gambling the chance of getting nothing is enormous. 

    Lootboxes always give you something of value - not the prized 1/1000 item that you are looking for but you get something useful - like crafting mats, etc...

    So lootboxes are more of RNG buying - if lootboxes had 99% chance of giving you nothing - it would be more like gambling.


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
    99% chance of getting nothing? Lol... maybe if all you play are slot machines.

    Always get something decent? that's a matter of opinion. Personally I don't see a lot of value added in paying $5 for a couple XP potions.

    Personally I call that, getting rooked.



    DemogorgonGdemami

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,829
    edited September 2018
    sayuu said:
    Myria said:
    From the paper:


    Turning to government to create the control we, both collectively and, in the main, individually seem unable or unwilling to exercise is inevitably going to lead to unintended consequences. We want government to "clean up" the mess, a mess we blame on everyone but ourselves, but inevitably that control we're asking for isn't going to just limit other people's "bad" choices, but also limit your choices in ways you (in the general, not specific) aren't going to like and aren't going to be able to adequately predict beforehand.


    To me, this is honestly just a very poor argument.   Not sure who the "we" you mention is, but it sure as heck isn't ME.  

    Here is what I said in the OP:
    My own take continues to be that they need to give ADULT consumers the information to make informed decisions and then those ADULTS should be able to do what they want.  It is also my opinion that these absolutely should be restricted from CHILDREN. Just as Alcohol is restricted.  No marketing games to kids and then hiding gambling boxes behind some fake currency of "gems" or "bucks".

    Do you see anything wrong with that?

    "wont someone think of the children" is also a very poor argument. . .
    So your argument is that no-one should think of the children?

    There might be a lot of room to argue whether parents should think of the children, or all adults collectively should think of the children, but clearly someone must think of them and set them limits.

    In my opinion here the one to set limits should be government, because limiting children shouldn't be too restrictive. A government can create situation where a parent is able to allow child the freedom to spend pocket money without supervision, and still have hard time trying to buy lootboxes, whereas if it's left completely up to the parents the parents would need to apply US style extreme restrictions and ban the child from using money.
    Gdemami
     
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,823
    edited September 2018
    Vrika said:
    sayuu said:
    Myria said:
    From the paper:


    Turning to government to create the control we, both collectively and, in the main, individually seem unable or unwilling to exercise is inevitably going to lead to unintended consequences. We want government to "clean up" the mess, a mess we blame on everyone but ourselves, but inevitably that control we're asking for isn't going to just limit other people's "bad" choices, but also limit your choices in ways you (in the general, not specific) aren't going to like and aren't going to be able to adequately predict beforehand.


    To me, this is honestly just a very poor argument.   Not sure who the "we" you mention is, but it sure as heck isn't ME.  

    Here is what I said in the OP:
    My own take continues to be that they need to give ADULT consumers the information to make informed decisions and then those ADULTS should be able to do what they want.  It is also my opinion that these absolutely should be restricted from CHILDREN. Just as Alcohol is restricted.  No marketing games to kids and then hiding gambling boxes behind some fake currency of "gems" or "bucks".

    Do you see anything wrong with that?

    "wont someone think of the children" is also a very poor argument. . .
    So your argument is that no-one should think of the children?

    There might be a lot of room to argue whether parents should think of the children, or all adults collectively should think of the children, but clearly someone must think of them and set them limits.

    In my opinion here the one to set limits should be government, because limiting children shouldn't be too restrictive. A government can create situation where a parent is able to allow child the freedom to spend pocket money without supervision, and still have hard time trying to buy lootboxes, whereas if it's left completely up to the parents the parents would need to apply US style extreme restrictions and ban the child from using money.
    Well that already in place isnt it ..

     First most of these games by Govt ESRP have standards set up ..
      
     Up to the parent to enforce it ..

       And if you decide to let them you need to set it up so they cant spend , or monitor enough to be sure they dont..

      My 7 year old loves Fortnite i let him play(if he asks) everynite , he Knows he Must   ask to spend any of those V-bucks and would not dare do so without .. its called parenting ...

      He also knows if hes doing well in school , finished his schoolwork and eating his meals , i most likely grin and say yes to wahtever silly Pink Bear outfit thing he wants to get .. If he has been good ..
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,447
    edited September 2018
    I find it a problem there are many people who spend hundreds of dollars and "still" not getting the item they want from the loot box.

    Too often I read P2W games forum and see people complaining about buying loot box after loot box trying to get a specific items and after hundreds of dollar they still didn't get it.

    That being said, many people lost all their savings in vegas.  I never hear people loss all their money from loot box.  So the severity is quite diffierent.  I do hear people who spend hundred of thousands dollar on loot box before though.  But usually those people are rich enough to afford it.
    Gdemami
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    laserit said:
    DMKano said:
    Herase said:
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.


    But in real world gambling the chance of getting nothing is enormous. 

    Lootboxes always give you something of value - not the prized 1/1000 item that you are looking for but you get something useful - like crafting mats, etc...

    So lootboxes are more of RNG buying - if lootboxes had 99% chance of giving you nothing - it would be more like gambling.


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
    99% chance of getting nothing? Lol... maybe if all you play are slot machines.

    Always get something decent? that's a matter of opinion. Personally I don't see a lot of value added in paying $5 for a couple XP potions.

    Personally I call that, getting rooked.



    Technically, you can all but guarantee about a 50% win rate if you just play red/black at the roulette table all night.

    Casinos don't make money and keep people there by making them lose 99% of the hands/rounds they play.
    Gdemami

    image
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,429
    laserit said:
    DMKano said:
    Herase said:
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.


    But in real world gambling the chance of getting nothing is enormous. 

    Lootboxes always give you something of value - not the prized 1/1000 item that you are looking for but you get something useful - like crafting mats, etc...

    So lootboxes are more of RNG buying - if lootboxes had 99% chance of giving you nothing - it would be more like gambling.


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
    99% chance of getting nothing? Lol... maybe if all you play are slot machines.

    Always get something decent? that's a matter of opinion. Personally I don't see a lot of value added in paying $5 for a couple XP potions.

    Personally I call that, getting rooked.



    Technically, you can all but guarantee about a 50% win rate if you just play red/black at the roulette table all night.

    Casinos don't make money and keep people there by making them lose 99% of the hands/rounds they play.
    If memory serves me right Blackjack holds the best odds, I believe the house has a 1% edge in Blackjack.
    MadFrenchieIselin

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    DMKano said:
    Herase said:
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.


    But in real world gambling the chance of getting nothing is enormous. 

    Lootboxes always give you something of value - not the prized 1/1000 item that you are looking for but you get something useful - like crafting mats, etc...

    So lootboxes are more of RNG buying - if lootboxes had 99% chance of giving you nothing - it would be more like gambling.


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
    99% chance of getting nothing? Lol... maybe if all you play are slot machines.

    Always get something decent? that's a matter of opinion. Personally I don't see a lot of value added in paying $5 for a couple XP potions.

    Personally I call that, getting rooked.



    Technically, you can all but guarantee about a 50% win rate if you just play red/black at the roulette table all night.

    Casinos don't make money and keep people there by making them lose 99% of the hands/rounds they play.
    If memory serves me right Blackjack holds the best odds, I believe the house has a 1% edge in Blackjack.
    Makes sense.  I read an article about a year back that included the top 5 best odds, and I remember Roulette being on there for the black/red bet.  I don't remember the other 4 they listed.

    image
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,535
    really if you ask me just put any game with a loot box with RL money on it a 18+ game and move on, banning it will not make it disapear, they will just change face, or just sell outright powers, but making games who otherwise was marked with a E become mature, that maybe will make then rethink the whole loot box, and in that regard you can just put on anything with is extra with add no content to the game
    Gdemami
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,823
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    DMKano said:
    Herase said:
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.


    But in real world gambling the chance of getting nothing is enormous. 

    Lootboxes always give you something of value - not the prized 1/1000 item that you are looking for but you get something useful - like crafting mats, etc...

    So lootboxes are more of RNG buying - if lootboxes had 99% chance of giving you nothing - it would be more like gambling.


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
    99% chance of getting nothing? Lol... maybe if all you play are slot machines.

    Always get something decent? that's a matter of opinion. Personally I don't see a lot of value added in paying $5 for a couple XP potions.

    Personally I call that, getting rooked.



    Technically, you can all but guarantee about a 50% win rate if you just play red/black at the roulette table all night.

    Casinos don't make money and keep people there by making them lose 99% of the hands/rounds they play.
    If memory serves me right Blackjack holds the best odds, I believe the house has a 1% edge in Blackjack.
    Makes sense.  I read an article about a year back that included the top 5 best odds, and I remember Roulette being on there for the black/red bet.  I don't remember the other 4 they listed.
    i won 4300 $ playing Roulette long ago .. was a great nite :)
    MadFrenchie
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Scorchien said:
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    DMKano said:
    Herase said:
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.


    But in real world gambling the chance of getting nothing is enormous. 

    Lootboxes always give you something of value - not the prized 1/1000 item that you are looking for but you get something useful - like crafting mats, etc...

    So lootboxes are more of RNG buying - if lootboxes had 99% chance of giving you nothing - it would be more like gambling.


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
    99% chance of getting nothing? Lol... maybe if all you play are slot machines.

    Always get something decent? that's a matter of opinion. Personally I don't see a lot of value added in paying $5 for a couple XP potions.

    Personally I call that, getting rooked.



    Technically, you can all but guarantee about a 50% win rate if you just play red/black at the roulette table all night.

    Casinos don't make money and keep people there by making them lose 99% of the hands/rounds they play.
    If memory serves me right Blackjack holds the best odds, I believe the house has a 1% edge in Blackjack.
    Makes sense.  I read an article about a year back that included the top 5 best odds, and I remember Roulette being on there for the black/red bet.  I don't remember the other 4 they listed.
    i won 4300 $ playing Roulette long ago .. was a great nite :)
    I've never been a huge fan of gambling itself, but I gotta hand it to casinos- they are really good at making sure you have a great time.  The banter across the tables (including with the dealers), the drinks poured freely, the overall atmosphere...  Take the "I lost a ton of money" away, and it's essentially just an all night party.
    Scorchien

    image
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,225
    edited September 2018
    The results of this study should not be overly surprising:
    It may also be the case that pre-existing gambling problems cause
    individuals to spend more money on loot boxes.
    Is anyone shocked by this? The same thing has been shown to apply to randomized loot, and other actions of chance.
    TorvalGdemami
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,823
    edited September 2018
    Scorchien said:
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    DMKano said:
    Herase said:
    Just because the rewards aren't cash, that doesn't mean it's not gambling.  If current laws don't properly treat this as gambling then the laws need to change.

    Even GGG uses these things to take advantage of players
    Imho isn't that much worse than the current definition of gambling? At least with gambling you can potential get a cash payout which is usable in the real world. 

    Lootboxes take real money and give you a chance at a digital item that can't be used anywhere outside of the game it was bought in. 

    Gambling seems more fair than lootboxes imho


    What I find funny is overall lootboxes hit the majority of what defines gambling, but because only one point doesn't match due to law not keeping up with modern technology, it gets an overall pass.


    But in real world gambling the chance of getting nothing is enormous. 

    Lootboxes always give you something of value - not the prized 1/1000 item that you are looking for but you get something useful - like crafting mats, etc...

    So lootboxes are more of RNG buying - if lootboxes had 99% chance of giving you nothing - it would be more like gambling.


    Would it be better for games to not have lootboxes - yep - but for me personally - lootboxes are more of a mystery/RNG buy than gambling as you always get something decent - otherwise nobody would spend money on the stupid things.

    So in reality - lootboxes have several key differences that make them unique and not a dead-ringer for gambling
    99% chance of getting nothing? Lol... maybe if all you play are slot machines.

    Always get something decent? that's a matter of opinion. Personally I don't see a lot of value added in paying $5 for a couple XP potions.

    Personally I call that, getting rooked.



    Technically, you can all but guarantee about a 50% win rate if you just play red/black at the roulette table all night.

    Casinos don't make money and keep people there by making them lose 99% of the hands/rounds they play.
    If memory serves me right Blackjack holds the best odds, I believe the house has a 1% edge in Blackjack.
    Makes sense.  I read an article about a year back that included the top 5 best odds, and I remember Roulette being on there for the black/red bet.  I don't remember the other 4 they listed.
    i won 4300 $ playing Roulette long ago .. was a great nite :)
    I've never been a huge fan of gambling itself, but I gotta hand it to casinos- they are really good at making sure you have a great time.  The banter across the tables (including with the dealers), the drinks poured freely, the overall atmosphere...  Take the "I lost a ton of money" away, and it's essentially just an all night party.
    The only reason i was at the roulette table is because drinks were free there ..

       I didnt know that ,  Was my first time in a casino , I had just gotten out of Jail , was in a year and 1/2 , Turned 21 while in ..

       When i got out a couple friends took me for a week to Paradise Island , was such a great time ..Anyhow i was getting drinks from the barmaid just walking around the Casino , after she had brought me my 3rd drink i said , Dam these are expensive and she tells me.. Drinks are free at the Tables !!! 

     SO sat down a t Roulette putting 1$ chips down and drinking for free.. Before i knew it i had a pile of chips and was laying down bigger bets .. Was so much fun ...
    MadFrenchie
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