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  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,087
    edited September 2018
    NorseGod, it might be more useful to consider how the OWPvP will work for the official servers instead of worrying about potential private servers for several reasons.

    1. The MMO like OWPVP official servers will be what most potential buyers of SC look at.
    The rules on these servers will determine if PVE players even consider the official servers (and the game if there is no option for private server yet).
    - EVE Online has a balance that lets PVE players do their thing. There is a risk, but it is manageable with insurances etc. And because of that, there have always been PVE only players in EVE Online.
    - An old game like Star Wars Galaxies has a different kind of balance. It allowed universe wide PVP. But it also allowed players to play as a citizen. This way they were not seen as soldier by the other factions and were primarily left alone. The key here is that this situation (toggable PVP flag) should not be exploitable. This worked pretty good in most versions (there were times when it was easy to exploit). I still see this as the best way if your goal as developer is to let both PVE and PVP players play an important role in your galaxy. Because SWG was very rpg heavy, the conflicts were for a large part guild based. Player city vs player city etc. The flag system allowed for a lot more variety in types of conflicts imo.

    2. The point of private servers is not just to be a haven for PVE players. It is a haven for everyone who prefers to host their own server with a different rule set then the official servers. While this can be just PVE, it could also be set to griefers paradise PVP. Again, this is dependent on the official server rules.



    The amount of people chosing for a private server option will be mostly determined by :
    - How difficult is it to set up (performance requirement, time etc) ?
    - How many are not happy with the server rules on the official server ?

    So, even if they release private servers at a later stage, it still does not have to mean that many people will make use of it. Whether there will be enough players on the official server will always be depending on official server rules. 

    NorseGodErillion
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    edited December 2019


    Post edited by NorseGod on
    craftseekerMaxBacon
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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    edited September 2018
    NorseGod said:
    Except you are wrong. CIG said so.

    See? proof
    Here's some proof for you:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaoGxOxzAwc&feature=youtu.be&t=1h50m50s

    As he says, they are not even considering or talking about this at this point. Hence why sharing concerns now is just noise for a feature they are not working on or even talking about it until some point after the game is released.

  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    edited December 2019


    Post edited by NorseGod on
    MaxBacon
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  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    You don't want me to mention Private Servers because it shits all over your narrative. 

    When in fact, CIG specifically states that is why there will be private servers, to allow the communities to break up into their own little groups so they don't have to be "forced" lol, to play with PvPers.

    There you go. Everything that fully backs up my concerns.
    No.

    I don't want you to mention Private Servers because they are NOT part of the scope of the game that will be released.

    And even if you consider them, they do not mean anything to the MMO, the MMO is the main game, the game that will be released, the game that is OWPVP.

    It is OWPVP. The game that on its intended release does NOT have PvP and PvE servers and it does NOT have Private Servers.


    Your concerns are based on your own reality bubble on a feature that you are on an wild speculation that private servers would ever have any relevant impact splitting the playerbase of the MMO, if they did it would be the first time I ever saw that happen in any MMO where private servers of it exist/existed. 

    Whelp, you go have fun shouting at the wind while the people around have fun playing this OWPVP game. ;)
    Kinda funny you accuse someone of being in their own reality bubble when the die hard fans live the same way.

    and really can you dismiss something because it’s not of the scope of the game that will be released when, as far as I know, CIG still hasn’t announced what will be in the released game assuming we are takin about their mvp
    MaxBaconcraftseeker
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    edited September 2018
    NorseGod said:
    As for #2.

    Yet it is a point. And the fact that you used the word "griefer" is telling. Because the casuals in SC are trying to define anyone who attacks them, for whatever reason, as a "griefer". First, they got CIG to acknowledge that griefing was bad as in taking punitive action. Now they are trying to define all PVP as "griefing". I just find it interesting that you chose that term.

    Come on, the rest of us see what's going on here.
    What?

    They acknowledge griefing is griefing, a player ramming other players in their landing pads is considered griefing, that's the sort of situations the community asked to be dealt with by in-game mechanics, not pure PvP situations lol...

    You and your reality bubble on this derps me out. SC cultivates PvP in different ways:
    • There is a shipwreck floating in space with a black box on it
    • Mission system generates a mission to good REP players to recover and deliver that box
    • Mission system generates a mission to pirate players to steal/destroy that box.
    • Both players are likely to meet up into a PvP situation because the conflict of interest the game itself intentionally creates.

    The game mission system itself is actually cultivating PvP (what is a rare sight even on PvPvE MMO's), they are not catering to PvE carebears to consider PvP "griefing". lol
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    edited December 2019
    Post edited by NorseGod on
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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    edited September 2018
    NorseGod said:
    Ah, so that's why they are selling Private Server Modules in the Pledge Store ($10). Because they do not plan on having Private Servers.

    Ok. Thanks.
    No. I countered your "proof" to show that they are not talking or even thinking about this feature at this stage and only intend to do so at some point after the game is released, that was what I said and sourced.
    craftseeker
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    MaxBacon said:
    NorseGod said:
    Ah, so that's why they are selling Private Server Modules in the Pledge Store ($10). Because they do not plan on having Private Servers.

    Ok. Thanks.
    No. I countered your "proof" to show that they are not talking or even thinking about this feature at this stage and only intend to do so at some point after the game is released, that was what I said and sourced.
    Well of course.  They already got those suckers' $10.
    NorseGod
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    edited December 2019
    Post edited by NorseGod on
    craftseeker
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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    Tiamat64 said:
    Well of course.  They already got those suckers' $10.
    When stuff from the store that was sold became obsolete, what happened several times due to design changes, they returned those values. If that happens with private servers and modding, they'll do just that.
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    edited December 2019
    Post edited by NorseGod on
    MaxBacon
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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,650
    edited September 2018
    NorseGod said:
    You countered jack.

    Let me help you.

    I don't want Private Servers at anytime after release, post-launch, launch, after going live. I think they are a mistake.
    I did counter, you linked a bunch of threads to say I'm wrong on saying they're not considering the feature at this stage, and I proved back they are not because they'll (as it was stated there) only look at the feature and those plans AFTER the game is released. Got it?

    Now, do you want to counter me back on your silly argument that the game is catering to PvE players who want PvP labeled as griefing when the game main mechanics of recent updates such as the mission system, is cultivating PvP intentionally? xD
    craftseeker
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,654
    edited December 2019


    Post edited by NorseGod on
    craftseeker
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  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,056
    Rhoklaw said:
    If there was a plethora of space games where people had choices, such as what you described in your OP, then I'd probably feel the same way as you. So lets look at what we got for space / sci fi MMOs.

    #1 - Eve Online - While there are "safe zones" you can still be attacked within them.
    #2 - SWTOR - Heavily story driven MMO that offers a mix of PvE and PvP.
    #3 - STO - See #2
    #4 - Planetside 2 - Straight up PvP / FPS-TPS MMO
    #5 - Elite Dangerous - ???

    Those are the only ones that come to mind, so not exactly a plethora. Of those 5, you have 5 that offer PvP and 4 that offer PvE. So it's a fair mix. Of those 5, 2 focus on PvE and 3 focus on PvP. So, if you want my honest opinion. People asking for PvE versions of a game that is supposedly going to be ground breaking and new, I don't see the problem.

    Pantheon is most and foremost a PvE game, but I don't have a problem with PvP players getting their own server. So, if I could just point out one thing which I've done countless times before. You're probably afraid that the PvE servers, which you obviously don't seem to fond of will be more populated than your PvP servers. I don't think it's fair to PvE players to be forced into PvP settings just so PvP players actually have people to play with.
    https://massivelyop.com/2017/02/23/perfect-ten-mmorpgs-that-help-you-get-your-spaceship-on/

    Once again you missed Vendetta Online, named right after Eve as a live MMORPG to try, notable because it does include Newtonian combat in a persistent MMORPG universe.

    Yes, it does not allow private servers, and yes combat can occur anywhere.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,196
    NorseGod, I really don't think you have much to worry about.  StarCitizen makes its money by being all things to all players; selling them back their own dreams.  As such, they will claim everything at some point.   Having functional private servers would mostly undercut their sales model,  and really, their management team is probably not capable of coordinating it without a ton of trouble.   

    You're spending $20 on $10 worth of trouble.....
    craftseekerPhaserlight

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    NorseGod said:

    Ah, so that's why they are selling Private Server Modules in the Pledge Store ($10). Because they do not plan on having Private Servers.

    --> Please post a link to the Star Citizen store where they sell these "Private Server Modules" for $10. I could not find any such item. Post a link to the official shop please, not a Goon photoshopped fake screenshot picture. 

    --> Have fun 


  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,928
    Yes OP, you made a mistake. The mistake was bringing up SC. Just read through all these ridiculous comments going over the same crap as always. THAT was your mistake  ;)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    craftseekerJamesGoblin
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,605
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    craftseekerMaxBacon
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    rodarin said:
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    "This is a game still deep in development, and elements are subject to change.”

    CIG - like other developers (e.g. CD Project Red) - do change things during game development. That is NORMAL. You can rage. You can be pissed. But its simply the way things are.


    Have fun


  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,605
    edited September 2018
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    "This is a game still deep in development, and elements are subject to change.”

    CIG - like other developers (e.g. CD Project Red) - do change things during game development. That is NORMAL. You can rage. You can be pissed. But its simply the way things are.


    Have fun


    last time i checked CD Red wasnt selling anything they could think of to fleece the people hyped for their game out of their money. As in selling things they claim will be there but might not be due to changes....

    They could sell real life slaves to get you food and drink while youre playing their tech demo and you would still find some way to say that it was OK
    MaxBacon
  • KellerKeller Member UncommonPosts: 602
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    "This is a game still deep in development, and elements are subject to change.”

    CIG - like other developers (e.g. CD Project Red) - do change things during game development. That is NORMAL. You can rage. You can be pissed. But its simply the way things are.


    Have fun


    Tip: don't point at others. Misdirection shows weakness in a discussion.

    I hope we are all smart enough to come to our conclusion after reading/listening to a good discussion. We don't need someone in the end to say what we should think/believe. Both sides in this discussion made smile, facepalm, disagree and/or agree. Misdirection only drives people like me away from your camp/starbase.
    craftseeker
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,254
    Keller said:
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    This thread proves one thing,  Roberts says anything and everything and leaves 99% of what he says open to determination. The true sign of a con man. He rarely if ever commits to anything, and when he does even then he generally walks it back if there is enough push back.

    But in terms of 'long' term expectations pretty much everything has been put on the table at one time or another and so has any opposing options. Its on purpose so as to not alienate any of the people still (allegedly) throwing money at this thing.

    These guys dont have a single frigging clue what theyre going to eventually put out and call a game. Wasting time specualting doesnt help anyone. 

    And showing where Roberts or CiG has lied is no great feat either because thats as easy as doing any google search on them. Well maybe semantically it wont be a lie until they actually release something and something they promised isnt there but until its never there the white knights will continue to say 'development is hard and long and we dont know.' Which is the ultimate strawman.
    "This is a game still deep in development, and elements are subject to change.”

    CIG - like other developers (e.g. CD Project Red) - do change things during game development. That is NORMAL. You can rage. You can be pissed. But its simply the way things are.


    Have fun


    Tip: don't point at others. Misdirection shows weakness in a discussion.

    I hope we are all smart enough to come to our conclusion after reading/listening to a good discussion. We don't need someone in the end to say what we should think/believe. Both sides in this discussion made smile, facepalm, disagree and/or agree. Misdirection only drives people like me away from your camp/starbase.
    I do not misdirect.

    I put into context.

    I compare (one game development companys' way of dealing with things versus another game development companys' strategy).

    I do not tell people what to think. I do point out how things ARE ... wether some people like it or not. They can think whatever they want about a piece of verifiable data.


    Have fun

    Kellercraftseeker
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,999
    Actually, that is quite wrong. They are simultaneously developing the main CoE game, a Mud-like version called VoxElyria, a game for nobility called Kingdoms of Elyria, and a single player game called Prologue: The Awakening for which you can also purchase the Adventure Toolkit and play as a DM and create adventures using " the same world-building and settlement building tools" as the developers to create adventures for groups of 5-10 players.

    And yes they have similar claims to a massive game area that you can travel seamlessly to (of course not multiple planets as its a Fantasy game), and a number of ships you can and will be able to buy to carry both cargo and other players.

    Of course, much of this exists in the same dimension of "planned for the future" that SC resides in.
    I give you that I haven't followed CoE enough to make a founded opinion but from the little I researched It seems those are pieces of tech that are being developed in separated that will be used for the ultimate final goal. Like test bed's that will lead to the finished product.

    Probably similar on how Star Citizen developed separated modules to make, hangars, dogfighting arena, and FPS arena which eventually tied all into the Persistent Universe.

    And no they don't have "similar claims to a massive game area", were talking about comparing part of a World, maybe a couple of continents with a Universe, planets, moons, space stations that you can travel seamlessly in massive ships.

    And "ships" you will be able to buy/play in CoE I can be mistaken but looks like what ArcheAge had, and Sea of Thieves resolves around.

    When we talk about Ship's in Star Citizen you must understand that it's a simulation game, every ship has it's own controllable landing gear, power system, engine, hatch, physics grid, magnetic field and oxygen generation. They act like a player's mount but also Innkeeper/housing, trade tool, fight tool, scan tool, mine tool etc

    They range from small to massive and are all detailed from inside out with multiple moving parts and dynamic damage states:



    These are currently the biggest ships ingame but in the overall scope they could be considered medium-small.

    The big ship's are a huge technical achievement to get them ingame and working. They are controllable levels on their own. And I doubt there's any game with vehicles this large fully modelled inside out at a 1:1 scale and this kind of visual fidelity.

    Star Citizen backers have been launching their alpha test executable since 2013, every year they have tested different features, systems and assets.

    That's one of the reasons why CIG has amassed so much money, because they keep delivering constant and juicy updates that make old backers come for more and new ones to join daily . 

    I usually try to keep track of the new crowdfunded mmorpg's development news because I like to see dev's taking risks and working from passion with the help of players.

    Even if the old middle ages fantasy universe of orcs, elfs and dragons is a bit saturated the perspective of seeing new dynamic worlds be created is exciting.

    Yes development is very hard, troubled and things never go as planned, features get changed or completely hacked but that's the way it is. As long as dev's showcase passion and clear intent to make the best game possible gamers should be supportive, you don't have to give more money to be supportive, you don't even have to like the game. Just applaud the effort and leave the trolling cynicism and bickering for yourself.

    Like grannie used to say, if you have nothing nice to say say nothing at all.
    craftseeker
  • Stormfire962Stormfire962 Member UncommonPosts: 65
    NorseGod said:
    Check out 1 of 2, where I discuss gimmicks and what lead me here.




    So, I'm just hanging out reading up on stuff. Waiting on the Mercury Q&A. It's a dud. It's slow, sold as fast smuggling ship. Data limitations, but more computers than any other sub-capital ship.

    Then, I noticed in the last 2 days, threads about private servers and getting rid of PVP from the game popping up.

    I'm sitting there reading all this about PVP needs to go, it's not fair, I just want to play with my friends, etc etc. Like, great, here we go with casual carebears ruining another MMORPG.

    So casual carebears, whom will leave the game after their first 30 days, are asking for a PVP/PVE toggle, PVE servers, and outright getting rid of PVP.

    THEN, I found a thread about private servers. And from the thread discussions, there will be:

    Private servers
    Public servers
    Official Public servers
    PvE servers
    PvP servers
    Capital Ships Only servers
    Sub-Capital Ships Only servers
    [Insert another way to split up the playerbase] server

    I asked for citations. Yep, it's true. Everybody is going to be spread out across a million different private servers. The casuals support this so they don't have to play with others or PVP, etc.

    So, if you think server pop in an MMORPG is important. There ya go.

    Those citations were from 2013, but no updates. They are hard to find, as with any important information with this game.

    Kinda mad about it.

    It's not because of the $200 I threw at them. Not because of the new SSD I bought this past Saturday, solely for the game. Not the hours of reading and watching videos.

    No, I'm mad because I have been waiting over a decade to have a large, OWPVP, sandbox MMORPG that I could get lost in again. Now it's a co-op or single-player game or, MMORPG if you're willing to pay to play on an empty Official server (why would you if there are 100K free ones to play on?)

    So, another game I have to move on from. I'm so damn sick of casuals ruining games. I hope you people that care about PVP and challenging MMORPGs start speaking up loudly. I don't know what casuals do or say to devs, but, it's not a joke or something that should be ignored. If you get in an alpha or beta and see some casual thread, stomp it into the mud and make it clear to the devs that little Billy who only plays 2 hours on Saturdays isn't worth more than you.

    OMG dude what are you smoking!

    You got so much stuff wrong here I do not know where to begin first.  The Mercury is still in concept and not even in the game yet to start off.  So there is no way to say just how fast it really is yet unless you read the official Star Citizen forums.  The game is also still heavily into development and as CIG as stated time and time again nothing is set in stone yet.  So ships speeds can still change.  Next this stuff you are talking about referring to the servers.  Well I am sure where you are getting your information from but all I can say is you are so far off and wrong it make me sick.  Since it is people like you who can ruin good games by creating fabricated rumors and misinformation.

    Here is all you need to know about the game and its servers.  First off, there will be multiple servers involved to run the entire game with everyone on it.  Second, the game will have 3 zones seamlessly connected to each other across the verse.  Zone 1 is completely safe hence PVE only, zone 2 will be a mix of PVE & PVP together and zone 3 will only be PVP.  Plus as I said they will be seamlessly connected which means there will NOT be any load screens.   This is how the official game will be set up for everyone to play on.

    In addition and this is one thing you partly had right.  CIG will be making available a copy of the game to those who if they want to run their own private game separate from the main game on their own servers at their own expense and adjust the official game rules within reason.

    Next time you want to verify or find out something about Star Citizen.  Try going to some reliable resources like the official game website or the other resources listed below and STOP looking at whatever junk sources you were going to before.

    Redacted.tv
    BoredGamerUK
    NOOBIFIER1337


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