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  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    Babuinix said:
    rodarin said:
    And we are now back to the semantics game. This topic breaks down just like all the others do.

    Before its over I wouldnt be surprised that if (and thats a huge if) this thing ever does get released it ends up being some sort of battle royal type game.

    People talking about MMO and all this and that and its still widely known that you can do anything with more than a few people in one spot. Despite those make believe videos where 50 people are supposedly having some planetary battle. Which even if it were true 50 people in 2018 is a frigging joke. But I guess its along way from the 12 or whatever they claimed they were going to have to go with a year or so ago.
    Well it's not just about player count, it's about the map span they can cover (that the server has to track) and what they can do / server needs to track (pilot ships, get inside other player ships, shoot guns) etc.

    And if you have a good connection and a good gaming PC performance can be quite good. 




    Source: 

    If you want to check more org (guild) gameplay there's some youtubers who make great content regularly like Sitarow and Noctisbot . 

    What kind of content? 2-3 second clips edited together to make it look smooth? Even those videos there most people I can count WALKING (not doing anything else) is 26, then a rover rides by and a ship is hovering quite a ways in the distance. Not sure if that is the 'watch 50 people in SC..." video or not but its barely half that and theyre really not doing anything and its on a 10 second loop.

    In the 'source' video at  minutes 25 thru to about 27 minutes when he is walking by a line of 23 or so people just standing there he is stuttering and buffering and glitching. What would happen if they all tried to move? Well we get a small peak when a few other come in jumping and running and you see them sliding and doing all the things games back 10 years ago would have happen when they couldnt handle that many people in one spot. I also cant tell what Resolution the original was shot it but the quality there looks like trash, so they probably lowered their settings to the absolute bottom just so they could move at all without stuttering and crashing. There are also 3 or 4 different edits there so who knows if he didnt crash anyway since he 'starts' over mid way through the times I cite.

    But congrats I guess, its almost 2019 theyre able to have 25 or 30 people walking around in a game world. A gameworld that has (allegedly) raised 200 million and hundreds of people working on it over the past 6 years. A gameworld that also use tech that some claim will be able to supports hundreds of people.

    I am also pretty sure (positive) this guy is playing on a PC custom made and paid for by CiG so its literally built to play SC. Yet even with all that there are splices and edits and cinematics to enhance the whole thing.
    MaxBaconBabuinix
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,219
    edited September 2018
    LoL. Did you looked through the Youtubers video channel? Plenty of more footage there for you to feast on   :D



    Have some racing too  B)
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,304
    MaxBacon said:

    Star Citizen does not use Google Clould, it uses Amazon Cloud, as part of the lumberyard license, Amazon's current MMO in development, New World, should be using the same backend, they also announced a complex server setup for the open world to allow large-scale MP population that is most likely a cloud setup.
    There does appear to be some sort of issue with Amazon public cloud service.  Firm I work for tried using it as part of a new transaction processing system but we could never get the necessary performance.

    Team ended up redesigning it to work on our in house private cloud instead.

    Could just be the extraordinary amount of security and controls we require which might have been the issue, I'm not sure.

    Will be interesting to see how well it works in an online gaming situation.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    Kyleran said:
    There does appear to be some sort of issue with Amazon public cloud service.  Firm I work for tried using it as part of a new transaction processing system but we could never get the necessary performance.

    Team ended up redesigning it to work on our in house private cloud instead.

    Could just be the extraordinary amount of security and controls we require which might have been the issue, I'm not sure.

    Will be interesting to see how well it works in an online gaming situation.
    Amazon has high-performance services on its cloud platform, it depends on what you pay for, there are and I think part of the Lumberyard license the specific service is EC2.

    I think Fortnite game servers are provided by Amazon's cloud. EA, Ubisoft, Nintendo are all clients of AWS Gaming.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,880
    MaxBacon said:
    Kyleran said:
    There does appear to be some sort of issue with Amazon public cloud service.  Firm I work for tried using it as part of a new transaction processing system but we could never get the necessary performance.

    Team ended up redesigning it to work on our in house private cloud instead.

    Could just be the extraordinary amount of security and controls we require which might have been the issue, I'm not sure.

    Will be interesting to see how well it works in an online gaming situation.
    Amazon has high-performance services on its cloud platform, it depends on what you pay for, there are and I think part of the Lumberyard license the specific service is EC2.

    I think Fortnite game servers are provided by Amazon's cloud. EA, Ubisoft, Nintendo are all clients of AWS Gaming.
    Keep in mind that Amazon recently announced that their "MMO" New World would start with just 500 players per server but hopefully grow.  That is their own game.  

    KyleranOctagon7711

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    edited September 2018
    OG_Zorvan said:
    CCP switched EvE's login, chat and other backend stuff to SWA and it's nothing but a shitshow. Chat systems bug out, login issues. AWS can die in a fire.
    AWS sustains an ecaton of services and games online, I wouldn't be quick in blaming the cloud provider for what is often bad infrastructure setups the companies made of them, especially scalability is a often fail that when services are put under pressure it just comes all crashing down.

    If you see Fortnite that so quickly became what today is pretty much the biggest game in the world, sustained by AWS, it managed and manages it just fine, so you should be asking if it was CCP who messed up their integration or Amazon who was unable to deliver.

    Google is also ramping up competition as cloud platform for gaming, aka their partnership with SpacialOS I think, cloud has moved their offer to meet the infrastructure needs of online gaming.


    Keep in mind that Amazon recently announced that their "MMO" New World would start with just 500 players per server but hopefully grow.  That is their own game.  

    Yes I know. From what was said it hints me they are in for a solution similar to what CIG also wants to do, the server mesh, that is big MP scalability in a single persistent open-world, but until then will use single game server instances.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,880
    MaxBacon said:

    Yes I know. From what was said it hints me they are in for a solution similar to what CIG also wants to do, the server mesh, that is big MP scalability in a single persistent open-world, but until then will use single game server instances.
    The key words in that statement are "wants to do".  After all this time I think I am understandably in the "show me" camp.  I'll believe it works when I see it.
    NorseGod

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,304
    edited September 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    Kyleran said:
    There does appear to be some sort of issue with Amazon public cloud service.  Firm I work for tried using it as part of a new transaction processing system but we could never get the necessary performance.

    Team ended up redesigning it to work on our in house private cloud instead.

    Could just be the extraordinary amount of security and controls we require which might have been the issue, I'm not sure.

    Will be interesting to see how well it works in an online gaming situation.
    Amazon has high-performance services on its cloud platform, it depends on what you pay for, there are and I think part of the Lumberyard license the specific service is EC2.

    I think Fortnite game servers are provided by Amazon's cloud. EA, Ubisoft, Nintendo are all clients of AWS Gaming.
    Keep in mind that Amazon recently announced that their "MMO" New World would start with just 500 players per server but hopefully grow.  That is their own game.  

    No worries, after determining SpatialOS wasn't suitable Soulbound Studios (COE) Devs put together a replacement using off the shelf tools to deliver 100K per Kingdom.

    Elven magic I think, so won't work for SC, no elves after all.

    ;)
    [Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    MaxBacon said:
    You do understand what I mean.  You said certain things were locked in and I pointed out they are still working on the foundations of the game.  Then you jumped on me several times for not using the correct terminology, thanks for clearing that up Max.  Now I know remember why I don't post much in SC threads.
    One does not simply bring in "oh the core of the game is not finished" argument to justify wrong technical speculations as possibilities.


    Why you see my observations as arguments I will never know.  You said my observations were wrong.  How did I argue with you about that?  Why pick fights with me?

    One thing I've noticed is that the people who are against SC tend to be more civil then those who are for it.  Perhaps it says something about the type of people the game is attracting.  

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    Kyleran said:
    Elven magic I think, so won't work for SC, no elves after all.
    Well as Amazon is going after a similar tech for New World that hints from what they said, and as Google has partnered with SpacialOS, I don't think Amazon will standby with the competition pushing through, so Lumberyard potentially will get a technology like it, what could also benefit SC if they pull and integrate from LY.
    rpmcmurphy
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    edited September 2018
    Why you see my observations as arguments I will never know.  You said my observations were wrong.  How did I argue with you about that?  Why pick fights with me?

    One thing I've noticed is that the people who are against SC tend to be more civil then those who are for it.  Perhaps it says something about the type of people the game is attracting.  
    My first response to you was to correct the fact you were talking about private servers and OCS because it was rather obvious you didn't know OCS was a client-side optimization. Your response is "I thought this was a game still working on its core." and I'm already derp there because that didn't address anything.

    Anyway, next time I'll just not a response to your observations when they are made on wrong perceptions of things so you don't feel I'm picking a fight with you.
    rpmcmurphy
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,880
    MaxBacon said:
    Kyleran said:
    Elven magic I think, so won't work for SC, no elves after all.
    Well as Amazon is going after a similar tech for New World that hints from what they said, and as Google has partnered with SpacialOS, I don't think Amazon will standby with the competition pushing through, so Lumberyard potentially will get a technology like it, what could also benefit SC if they pull and integrate from LY.
    This is absolutely blowing my mind.

    After ALL this time... now we are saying "Lumberyard potentially will get a technology like it" and that it could benefit SC if they pull and integrate it.

    WHAT
    THE
    FUCK

    Are you honestly telling me that there is a chance that they are going to try and pull a new (non-existing to this point) technology from Lumberyard to serve as the new foundation for making the game a single server solution?


    This is the first time I have heard such a thing... and if they really do not yet have the technology in place to be an actual MMO after all this time I am speechless...


    MaxBacon

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  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Why you see my observations as arguments I will never know.  You said my observations were wrong.  How did I argue with you about that?  Why pick fights with me?

    One thing I've noticed is that the people who are against SC tend to be more civil then those who are for it.  Perhaps it says something about the type of people the game is attracting.  
    Yes there's a lot of that. It's a big reason why the community is viewed as rather toxic.
    MaxBaconOctagon7711Kefo
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    edited September 2018
    This is absolutely blowing my mind.

    After ALL this time... now we are saying "Lumberyard potentially will get a technology like it" and that it could benefit SC if they pull and integrate it.

    WHAT
    THE
    FUCK

    Are you honestly telling me that there is a chance that they are going to try and pull a new (non-existing to this point) technology from Lumberyard to serve as the new foundation for making the game a single server solution?


    This is the first time I have heard such a thing... and if they really do not yet have the technology in place to be an actual MMO after all this time I am speechless...
    Why the hell are you so triggered?!

    Amazon is developing their own MMO, in their engine, so they are going to develop their own solution, as this goes, it wouldn't be unrealistic to expect the technology they develop to be integrated with the available engine they are developing that SC uses.

    You don't realize that CIG has not started work yet on the technology that is set to do that, neither did Amazon from the looks of it, so I don't see all this outrage of yours over the scenario Amazon releases a technology on the engine and CIG decides to pull and integrate it from LY, or not, as it stands they are set to develop their own solution anyway.

    It's a rather standard thin when someone licenses a game engine you know...
    rpmcmurphy
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,880
    MaxBacon said:
    This is absolutely blowing my mind.

    After ALL this time... now we are saying "Lumberyard potentially will get a technology like it" and that it could benefit SC if they pull and integrate it.

    WHAT
    THE
    FUCK

    Are you honestly telling me that there is a chance that they are going to try and pull a new (non-existing to this point) technology from Lumberyard to serve as the new foundation for making the game a single server solution?


    This is the first time I have heard such a thing... and if they really do not yet have the technology in place to be an actual MMO after all this time I am speechless...
    Why the hell are you so triggered?!

    Amazon is developing their own MMO, in their engine, so they are going to develop their own solution, as this goes, it wouldn't be unrealistic to expect the technology they develop to be integrated with the available engine they are developing.

    You don't realize that CIG has not started work yet on the technology that is set to do that,
     neither did Amazon from the looks of it, so I don't see all this outrage of yours over the scenario Amazon releases the technology on the engine and CIG decides to pull and integrate it from LY, or not, as it stands they are set to develop their own solution anyway.
    Triggered?

    Outrage?

    The game was supposed to be released 4 years ago.  You are seriously telling me that "CIG has not started work yet on the technology that is set to do that".  That is the most important facet of the game.  It's the literal foundation of making it an MMO.   

    If you do not find that concerning then the issue is not that I'm "triggered"... it's on your end.  Seriously.

    Babuinix

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  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    edited September 2018
    Imagine if you were to build and run a bookshop in the same fashion as CIG's development.

    You'd concept a book, print it, go through numerous revisions and the only place you have to sell it is from a fucking portakabin because you haven't started work on designing the floorplan of your shop after 6 bloody years... what a strange way to build something.
    [Deleted User]
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    Triggered?

    Outrage?

    The game was supposed to be released 4 years ago.  You are seriously telling me that "CIG has not started work yet on the technology that is set to do that".  That is the most important facet of the game.  It's the literal foundation of making it an MMO.   

    If you do not find that concerning then the issue is not that I'm "triggered"... it's on your end.  Seriously.

    Okay, so now you spin up the argument to the usual dates...

    Neither did Amazon started work on the MMO backend solution for their MMO, they'll maintain it on, like SC, single game server instances. Seems like on both New World and SC the MMO scalability backend is a long-term feature and not one of the first things they're doing.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,880
    MaxBacon said:
    Triggered?

    Outrage?

    The game was supposed to be released 4 years ago.  You are seriously telling me that "CIG has not started work yet on the technology that is set to do that".  That is the most important facet of the game.  It's the literal foundation of making it an MMO.   

    If you do not find that concerning then the issue is not that I'm "triggered"... it's on your end.  Seriously.

    Okay, so now you spin up the argument to the usual dates...

    Neither did Amazon started work on the MMO backend solution for their MMO, they'll maintain it on, like SC, single game server instances. Seems like on both New World and SC the MMO scalability backend is a long-term feature and not one of the first things they're doing.
    Star Citizen took my money in 2012. New World is a F2P game.  They can take as long as they want to develop it... or never release it and I won't give a shit.

    Simply said, if we are 4 years PAST the initial release date and they don't even have the solution for how it's going to be a single server MMO, there is something very seriously wrong.

    That's not being "triggered".  Triggered is seeing someone say something less than fawning about a silly game and rushing to defend it 100 times a day.

    I honestly had no idea that they didn't even have the technology base for the game.  I am stunned.

    Babuinix

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    edited September 2018
    I honestly had no idea that they didn't even have the technology base for the game.  I am stunned.
    So much hyperbole so little realism...

    Having a feature that transforms one instance from one game server into multiple game servers per different areas, is the foundation of the MMO aspect of it, not of the actual game, the actual game will live on with or without the Server Mesh feature. The difference that would make is most likely how many people would be able to co-exist within a solar system.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,880
    MaxBacon said:
    I honestly had no idea that they didn't even have the technology base for the game.  I am stunned.
    So much hyperbole so little realism...

    Having a feature that transforms one instance from one game server into multiple game servers per different areas, is the foundation of the MMO aspect of it, not of the actual game, the actual game will live on with or without the Server Mesh feature.
    I do not think you have much grounds to criticize others about realism...

    Babuinix

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    Slapshot1188 said:
    I do not think you have much grounds to criticize others about realism...
    Considering what you just stated I sure do.

    Amazon's New World shows it, one MMO that is about to its first alpha testing releases does not have its MMO tech there; the MP scalability tech will be a feature that will later be added upon the base game that is what they are focusing on right now, the same thing SC is doing.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,880
    MaxBacon said:
    Slapshot1188 said:
    I do not think you have much grounds to criticize others about realism...
    Considering what you just stated I sure do.

    Amazon's New World shows it, one MMO that is about to its first alpha testing releases does not have its MMO tech there; the MP scalability tech will be a feature that will later be added upon the base game that is what they are focusing on right now, the same thing SC is doing.
    New World was announced 2 years ago and I will GUARANTEE that they launch before Star Citizen does. They are also working on the tech right now.  From what YOU said "CIG has not started work yet on the technology"

    So a 2 year old game development is ahead of a 6 year old one.  Is that what you are hinging your "realism" on?  Seriously?


    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,756
    edited September 2018
    New World was announced 2 years ago and I will GUARANTEE that they launch before Star Citizen does. They are also working on the tech right now.  From what YOU said "CIG has not started work yet on the technology"

    So a 2 year old game development is ahead of a 6 year old one.  Is that what you are hinging your "realism" on?  Seriously?
    The length of the development is irrelevant to the point, yet the order they are doing things, and the MMO backend to provide MP scalability is not one of the things they were doing first.

    The Server Mesh will be a feature, what has been worked on is the whole backend of the game, everything has to be created before the Server Mesh, features like the now about to release Object Container Streaming or network culling features.

    It's rather being done in order, they are prioritizing the game-servers first then the server mesh, after the OCS releases, they are going to develop on the server side stuff so they can have scalability, such as physics right now can't use more than 4 cores in servers what bottlenecks the ability to increase player pops and all, after that, after the core server features and optimization is done, the server mesh will be the priority.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    MaxBacon said:
    Why you see my observations as arguments I will never know.  You said my observations were wrong.  How did I argue with you about that?  Why pick fights with me?

    One thing I've noticed is that the people who are against SC tend to be more civil then those who are for it.  Perhaps it says something about the type of people the game is attracting.  
    My first response to you was to correct the fact you were talking about private servers and OCS because it was rather obvious you didn't know OCS was a client-side optimization. Your response is "I thought this was a game still working on its core." and I'm already derp there because that didn't address anything.

    Anyway, next time I'll just not a response to your observations when they are made on wrong perceptions of things so you don't feel I'm picking a fight with you.
    It's not what you said but how you said it.  That's pretty much what civil means.  Even this response is telling me a couple of times that I was wrong, I guess just in case I didn't get it the last few times you told me.

    I already know that arguments concerning SC tend to end up going around in circles which is pretty much why I don't.  

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,880
    MaxBacon said:
    New World was announced 2 years ago and I will GUARANTEE that they launch before Star Citizen does. They are also working on the tech right now.  From what YOU said "CIG has not started work yet on the technology"

    So a 2 year old game development is ahead of a 6 year old one.  Is that what you are hinging your "realism" on?  Seriously?
    The length of the development is irrelevant to the point, yet the order they are doing things, and the MMO backend to provide MP scalability is not one of the things they were doing first.

    The Server Mesh will be a feature, what has been worked on is the whole backend of the game, everything has to be created before the Server Mesh, features like the now about to release Object Container Streaming or network culling features.

    It's rather being done in order, they are prioritizing the game-servers first then the server mesh, after the OCS releases, they are going to develop on the server side stuff so they can have scalability, such as physics right now can't use more than 4 cores in servers what bottlenecks the ability to increase player pops and all, after that, after the core server features and optimization is done, the server mesh will be the priority.
    What you are proposing is actually the exact OPPOSITE of what others are doing.  Look at Camelot Unchained.  They deservedly get beaten up for the length of their development, but their focus has been on making the actual technology to allow massive amounts of players to be on screen, fighting it out at the same time.  In essence, making sure the MMO part of the MMO game actually works.

    When I hear that "CIG has not started work yet on the technology" it is simply stunning and tells me that the actual game release is still... at a minimum... multiple years away.

    I can't wait until they use the excuse that they have to go back and re-work stuff to make it compatible with their server mesh system and that's why it's delayed.


    craftseeker

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