Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

A kinder, gentler EVE on the horizon?

13»

Comments

  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 4,042
    edited October 2019
    TEKK3N said:
    Nyctelios said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Nyctelios said:
    TEKK3N said:
    DrunkWolf said:


    shouldnt the real threat be in low/null sec instead of high sec? some how it ended up the other way around.
    CCP have been told about this problem repeatedly, but they never done anything about it for fear of upsetting the veterans.

    This is what’s killing EVE, but CCP and the veterans are too to stubborn to acknowledge it.

    HighSec should be high security, and NullSec no security.
    How difficult is to understand that?
    Weird. I said how players isbox and exploit concord to harass new players  was killing the game and I was LoL'ed into oblivion here.

    Yeah. Go, bump, save location, catalist one shot a mining barge. 

    Bam. New player giving up. A fat nerd laughing as tossing someone out of their game is a good thing.

    I never got it. And I never will. And I'm a full loot pvp hardcore player. 

    But EvE is another level. Those people they are exploiting the high sec mechanics to harass.
    Yeah basically this.
    CCP should read this cause it’s exactly what happens to 90% of new players.
    They should get their heads out of the veterans asses and start doing something about it.

    I am confident Pearl Abyss will pick on it, they did the same with BDO.
    They nerfed PVP and ganking in particular for the Western version of the game.

    Funny how an Asian developer is the one that gets PVP right in the West, since over there MMORPGs focus heavily on hardcore PVP.

    Veterans is the reason CCP had to sell EVE, and still they keep catering for them.
    They fixed BDO pvp gankfest...? When?

    Sorry mate far from the truth.
    Did you play the Korean version?
    Do it, and then let me know if you think PVP in their version is the same as ours.

    My point was that even though BDO was originally designed as an hardcore PVP game for the Asian market, Pearl Abyss had the ability to understand that it wouldn’t have worked the same way in the West, so they nerfed it, quite a lot.

    CCP being a Western Company, didn’t manage to acknowledge the problem, even though they should know the western market better than Asians.
    They still think there is a market for unrestricted PVP.
    There isn’t.

    Name one FFA MMO that has been a success.
    Apart from EVE, none.
    And EVE wasn’t so hardcore few years back, somehow it got even harder.

    For a game like EVE to work you need plenty of Carebears, which are the obvious prey for most hardcore PVPers.
    But if you scare them off before they can properly understand the game and deal with possible loss of property, they will quit.
    No prey for the predators means no game.
    Not saying they didnt change the PvP mechanics. Nor saying the western release is more hardcore in that matter.

    I'm just saying that "fixed" is not the right term.


    And about full loot ffa pvp mmos... well, on eastern markets they are very very popular. They hate (korea and japan) pve focused games. They love pvp. Chinese market even goes further by loving p2w pvp games.

    Just check top popular mmo lists from the last decade on south korea. But enough of that or we'll be derailing the conversation.
    Discord ID: Night # 6102
    Current playing: 
    Guilty Gear - Strive | Pillars of Eternity

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    What Pearl Abyss might do is certainly a question. Whether they will do anything fundamental with "EVE" - as it is - not sure. 

    EVE occupies an EVE shaped niche. Its an mmo - a niche; SF rather than fantasy which tends to be more niche; more of a grand strategy game than a shooter - another niche; and its PvP which is niche when it comes to mmo games but so are CoD, BF and a whole host of other - non-mmo - games.

    It is/has also been a sucessful game. It has outlasted many others - a huge list; maintained a decent population and has made national news across the world.

    If Pearl Abyss tried to alter it in any major way though - and I am not talking about tweaks - making it kinder or harsher - introducing a full P2W cash shop say ...... I think that could go badly. And the backlash could - because of previous national news coverage - could taint the brand.


    More likely - I think - would be tweak things and launch EVE Unchained - or Black EVE Online - perhaps; especially in markets in which there is no EVE first. Same assets and engine etc. but implemented differently - and with a cash shop of course. And of course EVE for Mobile.
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    edited October 2019
    Nyctelios said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Nyctelios said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Nyctelios said:
    TEKK3N said:
    DrunkWolf said:


    shouldnt the real threat be in low/null sec instead of high sec? some how it ended up the other way around.
    CCP have been told about this problem repeatedly, but they never done anything about it for fear of upsetting the veterans.

    This is what’s killing EVE, but CCP and the veterans are too to stubborn to acknowledge it.

    HighSec should be high security, and NullSec no security.
    How difficult is to understand that?
    Weird. I said how players isbox and exploit concord to harass new players  was killing the game and I was LoL'ed into oblivion here.

    Yeah. Go, bump, save location, catalist one shot a mining barge. 

    Bam. New player giving up. A fat nerd laughing as tossing someone out of their game is a good thing.

    I never got it. And I never will. And I'm a full loot pvp hardcore player. 

    But EvE is another level. Those people they are exploiting the high sec mechanics to harass.
    Yeah basically this.
    CCP should read this cause it’s exactly what happens to 90% of new players.
    They should get their heads out of the veterans asses and start doing something about it.

    I am confident Pearl Abyss will pick on it, they did the same with BDO.
    They nerfed PVP and ganking in particular for the Western version of the game.

    Funny how an Asian developer is the one that gets PVP right in the West, since over there MMORPGs focus heavily on hardcore PVP.

    Veterans is the reason CCP had to sell EVE, and still they keep catering for them.
    They fixed BDO pvp gankfest...? When?

    Sorry mate far from the truth.
    Did you play the Korean version?
    Do it, and then let me know if you think PVP in their version is the same as ours.

    My point was that even though BDO was originally designed as an hardcore PVP game for the Asian market, Pearl Abyss had the ability to understand that it wouldn’t have worked the same way in the West, so they nerfed it, quite a lot.

    CCP being a Western Company, didn’t manage to acknowledge the problem, even though they should know the western market better than Asians.
    They still think there is a market for unrestricted PVP.
    There isn’t.

    Name one FFA MMO that has been a success.
    Apart from EVE, none.
    And EVE wasn’t so hardcore few years back, somehow it got even harder.

    For a game like EVE to work you need plenty of Carebears, which are the obvious prey for most hardcore PVPers.
    But if you scare them off before they can properly understand the game and deal with possible loss of property, they will quit.
    No prey for the predators means no game.
    Not saying they didnt change the PvP mechanics. Nor saying the western release is more hardcore in that matter.

    I'm just saying that "fixed" is not the right term.

    And when did I use the term ‘fixed’?
    As far as I know I used the term ‘nerfed’.

    Plus, I don’t want the ganking to be fixed, ganking is integral part of a PVP MMO design.
    I just don’t want ganking to take over the whole game like it happened to EVE in the last few years.

    EVE used to be great for Corporations wars.
    That should be the focus of the game, not ganking.
    Ganking should be a niche gameplay within the game, not the primary type of PVP.
    If everyone is a Pirate, no one is a Pirate.
    KyleranGdemami
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,570
    Kyleran said:
    So with CCP reporting to new masters who will be very interested in  quickly making back their $425M investment they might consider dialing back on the aggression a bit.

    I'm talking about high sec in particular, over the years it became increasingly more dangerous either from CCP making it easier to gank with low risk or players being bored enough to figure new ways around the existing controls.

    I believe Pearl Abyss would see more PVE oriented players return if high sec was made safer or the risk / cost / penalties to suicide gank were greatly increased.

    Doesn't have to be eliminated, just very strongly discouraged. Yeah I know, many will argue against, say how "easy" it is to avoid.

    For newer players its not and even seasoned vets get unpleasantly surprised from time to time and pay dearly for it.

    Also, the current design inspires too much paranoia, can't move anything thru HS on autopilot, not even a shuttle without someone trying to wack it for lulz.

    I learned how to stay safe but all of the extra effort to do so (which entirely falls on the "gankee") grows very wearisome, too much so, at least for me which is why I spent most of my time in null sec in later years where intel networks were better and you could clearly see the bad guys coming.


    Their player base would freak out if Eve became a kinder gentle game.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,900
    Hariken said:
    Kyleran said:
    So with CCP reporting to new masters who will be very interested in  quickly making back their $425M investment they might consider dialing back on the aggression a bit.

    I'm talking about high sec in particular, over the years it became increasingly more dangerous either from CCP making it easier to gank with low risk or players being bored enough to figure new ways around the existing controls.

    I believe Pearl Abyss would see more PVE oriented players return if high sec was made safer or the risk / cost / penalties to suicide gank were greatly increased.

    Doesn't have to be eliminated, just very strongly discouraged. Yeah I know, many will argue against, say how "easy" it is to avoid.

    For newer players its not and even seasoned vets get unpleasantly surprised from time to time and pay dearly for it.

    Also, the current design inspires too much paranoia, can't move anything thru HS on autopilot, not even a shuttle without someone trying to wack it for lulz.

    I learned how to stay safe but all of the extra effort to do so (which entirely falls on the "gankee") grows very wearisome, too much so, at least for me which is why I spent most of my time in null sec in later years where intel networks were better and you could clearly see the bad guys coming.


    Their player base would freak out if Eve became a kinder gentle game.
    They been steadily draining players who certainly aren't all off enjoying Star Citizen or ED.

     :D 

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,000
    Burnouttx said:
    Ganking and getting ganked is part of the game sweethearts.  Get over it and plan on loosing whatever you undock with or go back to playing WoW.  That's why I learned industry and build my own ships..... freakin' duh.  
    That’s the problem. You don’t want people to go play WoW, you want them to fill the Eve universe. It’s not like they’re changing every system. 
  • lotrlorelotrlore Managing EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, Member RarePosts: 266
    Amathe said:
    Kinder and gentler implies there is anything kind or gentle about Eve.  :0 
    Even their power ballad is all about shooting each other and dying together.


    Octagon7711Erillion
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,330
    edited October 2019
    gervaise1 said:
    What Pearl Abyss might do is certainly a question. Whether they will do anything fundamental with "EVE" - as it is - not sure. 

    EVE occupies an EVE shaped niche. Its an mmo - a niche; SF rather than fantasy which tends to be more niche; more of a grand strategy game than a shooter - another niche; and its PvP which is niche when it comes to mmo games but so are CoD, BF and a whole host of other - non-mmo - games.

    It is/has also been a sucessful game. It has outlasted many others - a huge list; maintained a decent population and has made national news across the world.

    If Pearl Abyss tried to alter it in any major way though - and I am not talking about tweaks - making it kinder or harsher - introducing a full P2W cash shop say ...... I think that could go badly. And the backlash could - because of previous national news coverage - could taint the brand.


    More likely - I think - would be tweak things and launch EVE Unchained - or Black EVE Online - perhaps; especially in markets in which there is no EVE first. Same assets and engine etc. but implemented differently - and with a cash shop of course. And of course EVE for Mobile.
    According to EVE Offline Tranquility average concurrency is at its lowest since March 2006. The game struggles to hit 30K peak concurrency at popular times. Not "fixing things" and letting a subset of their players control their game design has been a bad choice.

    edit: Here is the link to EVE Offline for reference. https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

    TEKK3NOctagon7711Gdemami
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • NorseGodNorseGod Member EpicPosts: 2,636
    I don't play EVE because I just don't have the time for it, to play the way I want to. But, I hope they don't screw it up, whatever they do.
    To talk about games without the censorship, check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,140
    Kyleran said:
    They have this "belief" that by making PVE less safe it will encourage players to PVP more.

    Perhaps in some situations or for some players, got me out to null sec however I suspect it drove a lot more folks off than encouraged.

    I think a better approach would have been to offer better or more unique rewards to null sec life to encourage players rather than bludgeon.

    This is the same belief that kills most PVP games.  "Well the reason people are quitting our game is because there needs to be more risk verse reward".  Really?  Then why did even more people quit when you made the change?   "Oh we spoke with the community about that (only hardcore PvPer's are left at this point) and they said there needs to be even more risk verses reward and people will come back"  Repeat cycle.

    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,900
    goboygo said:
    Kyleran said:
    They have this "belief" that by making PVE less safe it will encourage players to PVP more.

    Perhaps in some situations or for some players, got me out to null sec however I suspect it drove a lot more folks off than encouraged.

    I think a better approach would have been to offer better or more unique rewards to null sec life to encourage players rather than bludgeon.

    This is the same belief that kills most PVP games.  "Well the reason people are quitting our game is because there needs to be more risk verse reward".  Really?  Then why did even more people quit when you made the change?   "Oh we spoke with the community about that (only hardcore PvPer's are left at this point) and they said there needs to be even more risk verses reward and people will come back"  Repeat cycle.

    You are confused, players want more reward and less risk...which is what Null sec eventually evolved into, while high sec went the other direction. 

    Is OK, CCP got it backwards too.

     :D 
    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    Kyleran said:
    goboygo said:
    Kyleran said:
    They have this "belief" that by making PVE less safe it will encourage players to PVP more.

    Perhaps in some situations or for some players, got me out to null sec however I suspect it drove a lot more folks off than encouraged.

    I think a better approach would have been to offer better or more unique rewards to null sec life to encourage players rather than bludgeon.

    This is the same belief that kills most PVP games.  "Well the reason people are quitting our game is because there needs to be more risk verse reward".  Really?  Then why did even more people quit when you made the change?   "Oh we spoke with the community about that (only hardcore PvPer's are left at this point) and they said there needs to be even more risk verses reward and people will come back"  Repeat cycle.

    You are confused, players want more reward and less risk...which is what Null sec eventually evolved into, while high sec went the other direction. 

    Is OK, CCP got it backwards too.

     :D 
    Yep, this.

    Basically I had to move to Null Sec to avoid PVP, isn’t this ironic?
    How incompetent can you be as a developer if you don’t understand how your game works?

    Do CCP actually play their fucking game?
    KyleranNyctelioskitaradGdemami
  • lotrlorelotrlore Managing EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, Member RarePosts: 266
    TEKK3N said:
    Kyleran said:
    goboygo said:
    Kyleran said:
    They have this "belief" that by making PVE less safe it will encourage players to PVP more.

    Perhaps in some situations or for some players, got me out to null sec however I suspect it drove a lot more folks off than encouraged.

    I think a better approach would have been to offer better or more unique rewards to null sec life to encourage players rather than bludgeon.

    This is the same belief that kills most PVP games.  "Well the reason people are quitting our game is because there needs to be more risk verse reward".  Really?  Then why did even more people quit when you made the change?   "Oh we spoke with the community about that (only hardcore PvPer's are left at this point) and they said there needs to be even more risk verses reward and people will come back"  Repeat cycle.

    You are confused, players want more reward and less risk...which is what Null sec eventually evolved into, while high sec went the other direction. 

    Is OK, CCP got it backwards too.

     :D 
    Yep, this.

    Basically I had to move to Null Sec to avoid PVP, isn’t this ironic?
    How incompetent can you be as a developer if you don’t understand how your game works?

    Do CCP actually play their fucking game?
    They do now, at least publicly! 

    https://www.mmorpg.com/eve-online/news/ccp-outlines-new-policy-to-allow-devs-to-play-eve-online-with-players-2000102490
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 4,042
    lotrlore said:
    TEKK3N said:
    Kyleran said:
    goboygo said:
    Kyleran said:
    They have this "belief" that by making PVE less safe it will encourage players to PVP more.

    Perhaps in some situations or for some players, got me out to null sec however I suspect it drove a lot more folks off than encouraged.

    I think a better approach would have been to offer better or more unique rewards to null sec life to encourage players rather than bludgeon.

    This is the same belief that kills most PVP games.  "Well the reason people are quitting our game is because there needs to be more risk verse reward".  Really?  Then why did even more people quit when you made the change?   "Oh we spoke with the community about that (only hardcore PvPer's are left at this point) and they said there needs to be even more risk verses reward and people will come back"  Repeat cycle.

    You are confused, players want more reward and less risk...which is what Null sec eventually evolved into, while high sec went the other direction. 

    Is OK, CCP got it backwards too.

     :D 
    Yep, this.

    Basically I had to move to Null Sec to avoid PVP, isn’t this ironic?
    How incompetent can you be as a developer if you don’t understand how your game works?

    Do CCP actually play their fucking game?
    They do now, at least publicly! 

    https://www.mmorpg.com/eve-online/news/ccp-outlines-new-policy-to-allow-devs-to-play-eve-online-with-players-2000102490
    EvE has a long history with devs meddling with playerbase and getting axed.

    Also a short history of devs posing as piñatas for loot events.
    Gdemami
    Discord ID: Night # 6102
    Current playing: 
    Guilty Gear - Strive | Pillars of Eternity

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • QuarterStackQuarterStack Member RarePosts: 476
    edited April 10
    I just wish they pulled CCP off EVE (sorry EVE fans!) and put them back on a WoD game.
    ... or at least resurrect Walking in Stations!!!

    (-hides-)
  • AedaxusAedaxus Newbie CommonPosts: 1
    edited May 13
    I just wish they pulled CCP off EVE (sorry EVE fans!) and put them back on a WoD game.
    ... or at least resurrect Walking in Stations!!!

    (-hides-)

    "Walking In Stations" was a nice idea if it was expanded upon. What they delivered was a 'proof of concept' showing they can make you walk in one room.  Just an impractical interface -comparable to the bulkiness  of VR technology- made for a very small group of players.  With nothing to do, not slot machines (PVE), no poker tables (PVP). So yes, implement WIS but add things to do, even if it's mini games like "pipes" to fix things or to speed up industry things or whatever. So many possibilities... As usual CCP saw an opportunity (but most likely they wanted to force VR in it) then missed the ball completely. Sad, but shows somehow they have great ideas once in a while. It did not help the (already abandoned) engine they built it on, only compiled in 32 bit.... *sigh*
    Ungood
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,900
    Aedaxus said:
    I just wish they pulled CCP off EVE (sorry EVE fans!) and put them back on a WoD game.
    ... or at least resurrect Walking in Stations!!!

    (-hides-)

    "Walking In Stations" was a nice idea if it was expanded upon. What they delivered was a 'proof of concept' showing they can make you walk in one room.  Just an impractical interface -comparable to the bulkiness  of VR technology- made for a very small group of players.  With nothing to do, not slot machines (PVE), no poker tables (PVP). So yes, implement WIS but add things to do, even if it's mini games like "pipes" to fix things or to speed up industry things or whatever. So many possibilities... As usual CCP saw an opportunity (but most likely they wanted to force VR in it) then missed the ball completely. Sad, but shows somehow they have great ideas once in a while. It did not help the (already abandoned) engine they built it on, only compiled in 32 bit.... *sigh*
    Welcome to the forums.

    Seeing this old necro brings me back, realizing that it's been 4.5 years now since I "retired" from EVE, where does the time go.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • thelawoflogicthelawoflogic Member UncommonPosts: 766
    I ate sandwich yesterday
Sign In or Register to comment.