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My just another random idea design for MMO gear progression

iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256
edited August 2018 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
Well , just my though , need some fix , so share . It may not original idea , just i think it pretty good one .
The system is similar to weight management mechanic

*player start with 3000 equipment limit point , each level up add more equipment limit point. max may be 9000
*When player equip piece of item , it reduce equipment limit point . For example equip a 1000 gear point item will reduce equipment limit point to 2000 , and you can't equip item that have more than 2000 gear point .
*Player only allow to change gears in safe zone
*Player use in game gold instead of EXP to raise they level , all level require same among of gold .


The gear parts are:

*Helmet stats
-Radar- (unit in meter )Allow player to see more stuff on map (show they location on map )
-Hit rate-
-Critical rate-
-Add range- Add range for range P-ATK and range M-ATK

*Armor stats
-HP-
-MP-
-Def- physical , magic
-block rate-
-reduce Global cooldown- (smallest is 0.5s)

*Hand stats
-Reduce ATK speed-
-Reduce Casting speed-
-Reduce Cooldown-

*Leg stats
-run speed-
-Evasion rate-
-Stealth-
-run mode MP consume rate-

*Weapon stats
-Damage- physical , magic , range , heal
-ATK speed-
-Casting speed-
-Cooldown-
-Critical damage-
-Global cooldown-


Mechanic
*player [hit rate] - target [evasion rate] = hit rate (smallest = 0)
*player [Critical rate] - target [Block rate] = critical rate (smallest =0)
*Weapon [ATK speed] + hand [reduce ATK speed] = player ATK speed . smallest ATK speed > 0.5s
(for example weapon are 5s ATK speed , hands reduce 6s ATK speed = player ATK speed = 0.5s)
*(Skill base [casting speed] + weapon [casting speed]) - Hands [reduce casting speed] = skill casting speed (smallest = instant cast spell)
For example a fire ball casting speed are 1s + weapon casting speed 2s = 3s casting . If equip Hands with 5s reduce casting speed then it will become instance casting spell .
*cooldown is same mechanic with casting spell
*walk speed base is 4m/s , run speed = walk speed+ leg run speed . Run consume MP rate base on leg stats
*Radar vs stealth . Radar help to show objects and players on map , the base radar is 30m . If objects or players who have Stealth stats higher than you then they are not show up on your map . Player can target mobs or player who show up on the map .
*-add range- Skill range = base range + add range stats . For example base range of fire ball = 20m , add ranger = 10m then total range = 30m .
Player can even shoot target that outside of they view with radar target support .
*Critical damage , pointless if target block rate are higher than your critical rate (no critical hit )
*Global cooldown ,  recoil create after use skill , cause it impossible to continuous spam skill , higher armor can reduce the recoil (reduce global cooldown)



death penalty

When players dead , they equipment limit point get reduce by 1 level (smallest is 3000) . Player who being over equipment limit can't do anything but walk until they remove equipped items that cause over limit .
Since level up 1 level is pretty easy , it's worth a try to dead while playing .

Comments

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    iixviiiix said:

    Mechanic
    *player [hit rate] - target [evasion rate] = hit rate (smallest = 0)
    That smallest is too small. It would be better to put in something like 10% or even 5% minimum chance to hit because situations where you can beat a mob all day and never hit it feel stupid.

    If the hit rate is very low the effective result that you have no chance remains same, but it feels a lot less stupid to the player.

    Also you should consider having a system where a hit rate of over 100% translates into getting critical hits.

    iixviiiix said:
    *Weapon [ATK speed] + hand [reduce ATK speed] = player ATK speed . smallest ATK speed > 0.5s
    (for example weapon are 5s ATK speed , hands reduce 6s ATK speed = player ATK speed = 0.5s)

    That would be overpowered ATK speed scaling for small weapons. It would be better to make the ATK speed reduction a % value so that it gives equal dps increase to both small and large weapons.
    iixviiiix said:

    *Player only allow to change gears in safe zone
    That sounds too harsh.

    Also it would create situations where after death and rez you could continue, expect that you can't do anything but walk until you reach a safe zone. Unless you're planning a system where dead players must invariably respawn at safe zone to continue.

    iixviiiix said:

    *player start with 3000 equipment limit point , each level up add more equipment limit point. max may be 9000
    You'd need to add players a way to get 1 equipment point at a time because that's the amount of equipment points they lose on death. Otherwise it would feel stupid.

    Also isn't losing 0.011% of your equipment point limit a bit stupid death penalty, at max equipment points it would be that small loss.
    iixviiiix
     
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256
    edited August 2018
    Vrika said:
    iixviiiix said:

    Mechanic
    *player [hit rate] - target [evasion rate] = hit rate (smallest = 0)
    1*That smallest is too small. It would be better to put in something like 10% or even 5% minimum chance to hit because situations where you can beat a mob all day and never hit it feel stupid.

    If the hit rate is very low the effective result that you have no chance remains same, but it feels a lot less stupid to the player.

    Also you should consider having a system where a hit rate of over 100% translates into getting critical hits.

    iixviiiix said:
    *Weapon [ATK speed] + hand [reduce ATK speed] = player ATK speed . smallest ATK speed > 0.5s
    (for example weapon are 5s ATK speed , hands reduce 6s ATK speed = player ATK speed = 0.5s)

    2*That would be overpowered ATK speed scaling for small weapons. It would be better to make the ATK speed reduction a % value so that it gives equal dps increase to both small and large weapons.
    iixviiiix said:

    *Player only allow to change gears in safe zone
    3*That sounds too harsh.

    Also it would create situations where after death and rez you could continue, expect that you can't do anything but walk until you reach a safe zone. Unless you're planning a system where dead players must invariably respawn at safe zone to continue.

    iixviiiix said:

    *player start with 3000 equipment limit point , each level up add more equipment limit point. max may be 9000
    4*You'd need to add players a way to get 1 equipment point at a time because that's the amount of equipment points they lose on death. Otherwise it would feel stupid.

    Also isn't losing 0.011% of your equipment point limit a bit stupid death penalty, at max equipment points it would be that small loss.
    1* No , i believe it fair enough to let hit rate being 0 . While AOE attack rate are 100%
    AOE damage will be defend by DEF stats while single attack will be defend by hit and evasion
    That's in case of full DPS build . It make full DPS can deal massive damage but depend more on skill cooldown , casting and global cooldown .

    2* Well , in the design the stronger the weapon (more DPS) the heavier they are and it cause the ATK speed become higher .
    For example a 3000 GS sword have 200 ATK and 5s attack speed and 6000 GS sword have 400 ATK and 10s ATK speed (still need more calculation ) So if you spend too much equipment limit point on high GS weapon then you will lost ATK speed (hand part) and calculate (helmet part)

    The plan is make early weapon being useful for build while late game weapons wasn't being meta .

    3* When i mean safe zone , it mean resurrect point do i don't think it too harsh . It's to deal with problem of change gears in middle of fight . Rather than something like in out combat stage (that have a lots of bugs)

    4* To level up equipment limit point you need to spend "in game gold" (like level up skill in older games) so just save up more in game gold when you dead , gold consume mechanic .

    Also i am not into heavy punishment , at early level , you not dead too much and at high level when you dead too much . So it make you careful at early level and more being more risky in late game .
    (instead of current mechanic where you being careless in early game and being too careful at late game that make people rather sit one place and do nothing)
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    iixviiiix said:
    Vrika said:

    iixviiiix said:
    *Weapon [ATK speed] + hand [reduce ATK speed] = player ATK speed . smallest ATK speed > 0.5s
    (for example weapon are 5s ATK speed , hands reduce 6s ATK speed = player ATK speed = 0.5s)

    2*That would be overpowered ATK speed scaling for small weapons. It would be better to make the ATK speed reduction a % value so that it gives equal dps increase to both small and large weapons.

    2* Well , in the design the stronger the weapon (more DPS) the heavier they are and it cause the ATK speed become higher .
    For example a 3000 GS sword have 200 ATK and 5s attack speed and 6000 GS sword have 400 ATK and 10s ATK speed (still need more calculation ) So if you spend too much equipment limit point on high GS weapon then you will lost ATK speed (hand part) and calculate (helmet part)

    The plan is make early weapon being useful for build while late game weapons wasn't being meta .
    2: But the problem with that design is that the 3000 GS sword would do 40 ATK per second, while that 6000 GS sword would also do 40 ATK per second.

    If player were to get 3 second decrease to attack time, that 3000 GS sword would do 200 ATK every 2 seconds, equals to 100 ATK per second. 6000 GS sword would only do 57 ATK per second. The effect of ATK time decrease on your damage would vary so wildly that the game would be insanely hard to balance.

    Whereas if you'd make the ATK speed reduction a % value, you'd be in a situation where reducing 50% from 5 second attack time would give you 2,5 second attack time and 80 ATK per second. Whereas the 6000 GS sword would attack every 5 second and also do 80 ATK per second. The game is much easier to balance if the relative power of weapons stays the same.


    Actually an even better formula would be to have players have 100% attack speed by default. For example that weapon with 5s attack time would take 5s / 100% = 5 seconds to attack. But with attack speed increase of 50% (player attack speed would be 150%) it would change into 5s / 150% = 3,33 seconds.

    While this formula is harder to calculate, it would give you a system where every % of attack speed increase would be worth the same:
      a) player with 100% attack speed would attack every 5s/100% = 5 seconds and do 40 ATK per second
      b) player with 120% attack speed would attack every 5s / 120% = 4,17 seconds and do 48 ATK per second, a 8 ATK per second increase for 20%
      c) player with 140% attack speed would attack every 5s / 140% = 3,57 seconds and do 56 ATK per second, again same 8 ATK increase per second for getting another 20%


     
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    edited August 2018
    iixviiiix said:
    Vrika said:
    iixviiiix said:

    *Player only allow to change gears in safe zone
    3*That sounds too harsh.

    Also it would create situations where after death and rez you could continue, expect that you can't do anything but walk until you reach a safe zone. Unless you're planning a system where dead players must invariably respawn at safe zone to continue.

    3* When i mean safe zone , it mean resurrect point do i don't think it too harsh . It's to deal with problem of change gears in middle of fight . Rather than something like in out combat stage (that have a lots of bugs)
    Whether it's too harsh or not, how would you deal with a situation where one player in a group dies and goes over his equipment point limit?

    Will you have the rest of the group waiting once he walks back from where-ever nearest resurrect point is?


    If you think it's too hard to detect whether player is in combat or not, you could do something like place him out of combat once at least 60 second have passed without him using any attacks or being hit by any attacks. Bugged mobs and such sometimes cause problems if combat detection is based on them trying to attack you, but you should be able to reliably detect player's own actions and incoming damage.
    iixviiiix
     
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256
    edited August 2018
    Vrika said:
    iixviiiix said:
    Vrika said:

    iixviiiix said:
    *Weapon [ATK speed] + hand [reduce ATK speed] = player ATK speed . smallest ATK speed > 0.5s
    (for example weapon are 5s ATK speed , hands reduce 6s ATK speed = player ATK speed = 0.5s)

    2*That would be overpowered ATK speed scaling for small weapons. It would be better to make the ATK speed reduction a % value so that it gives equal dps increase to both small and large weapons.

    2* Well , in the design the stronger the weapon (more DPS) the heavier they are and it cause the ATK speed become higher .
    For example a 3000 GS sword have 200 ATK and 5s attack speed and 6000 GS sword have 400 ATK and 10s ATK speed (still need more calculation ) So if you spend too much equipment limit point on high GS weapon then you will lost ATK speed (hand part) and calculate (helmet part)

    The plan is make early weapon being useful for build while late game weapons wasn't being meta .
    2: But the problem with that design is that the 3000 GS sword would do 40 ATK per second, while that 6000 GS sword would also do 40 ATK per second.

    If player were to get 3 second decrease to attack time, that 3000 GS sword would do 200 ATK every 2 seconds, equals to 100 ATK per second. 6000 GS sword would only do 57 ATK per second. The effect of ATK time decrease on your damage would vary so wildly that the game would be insanely hard to balance.

    Whereas if you'd make the ATK speed reduction a % value, you'd be in a situation where reducing 50% from 5 second attack time would give you 2,5 second attack time and 80 ATK per second. Whereas the 6000 GS sword would attack every 5 second and also do 80 ATK per second. The game is much easier to balance if the relative power of weapons stays the same.


    Actually an even better formula would be to have players have 100% attack speed by default. For example that weapon with 5s attack time would take 5s / 100% = 5 seconds to attack. But with attack speed increase of 50% (player attack speed would be 150%) it would change into 5s / 150% = 3,33 seconds.

    While this formula is harder to calculate, it would give you a system where every % of attack speed increase would be worth the same:
      a) player with 100% attack speed would attack every 5s/100% = 5 seconds and do 40 ATK per second
      b) player with 120% attack speed would attack every 5s / 120% = 4,17 seconds and do 48 ATK per second, a 8 ATK per second increase for 20%
      c) player with 140% attack speed would attack every 5s / 140% = 3,57 seconds and do 56 ATK per second, again same 8 ATK increase per second for getting another 20%


    I think your calculation is wrong here , it's because you don't count the defense stats . You will need high DPS to get pass the high defense .
    If you go low GS weapons with high hand equipment speed support then you can't get pass middle tier armor defense .
    Use your example : with 3 second reduce attack speed , 3000 GS sword only do 1 ATK every 2s (1 ATK is min) when hit target with 200 DEF stats while 6000 GS sword with 400 ATK base and no speed reduce do 200 ATK every 8s . That's what the design want to be .
    Low GS sword with speed boost may deal more DPS for low GS armor but lost again middle and high GS armor .

    I think the % value is a problem on most of design , it make the game harder to balance . So i rather don't use it . many games use % value and late game always become a mess of power gap. The idea % value at early game mostly don't mix well with late game stats .
    Post edited by iixviiiix on
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256
    Vrika said:
    iixviiiix said:
    Vrika said:
    iixviiiix said:

    *Player only allow to change gears in safe zone
    3*That sounds too harsh.

    Also it would create situations where after death and rez you could continue, expect that you can't do anything but walk until you reach a safe zone. Unless you're planning a system where dead players must invariably respawn at safe zone to continue.

    3* When i mean safe zone , it mean resurrect point do i don't think it too harsh . It's to deal with problem of change gears in middle of fight . Rather than something like in out combat stage (that have a lots of bugs)
    Whether it's too harsh or not, how would you deal with a situation where one player in a group dies and goes over his equipment point limit?

    Will you have the rest of the group waiting once he walks back from where-ever nearest resurrect point is?


    If you think it's too hard to detect whether player is in combat or not, you could do something like place him out of combat once at least 60 second have passed without him using any attacks or being hit by any attacks. Bugged mobs and such sometimes cause problems if combat detection is based on them trying to attack you, but you should be able to reliably detect player's own actions and incoming damage.
    So you mean "resurrection skill" case where priest classes resurrect you on spot ?
    You right , i wasn't think about it.

    I think to counter this problem , resurrect skill will ask player to pay on spot for the level loss . If player don't carry enough in game gold, only option is safe zone resurrect . It mean no over limit when resurrect on spot . That happen in many games .


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