Game time and real life time management

delete5230

First generation = devote all your time 
Second generation = A lot of your time 
Third  generation = half hour clips of your time 

Were all individuals with our own life, with drastic differences in our life managements.  Add that we all have different percentage of play time that we WANT to play. 

Let me be the elephant in the room and talk about what many people fear with Pantheon "devote all your time". 



With so many differences and trying to not being selfish I could only speak for me.  
HOWEVER, I could only guess most are like me: 

-Friday after 5 pm I have all night 
-Saturday morning before 11am, and after 4pm I have all night 
-Sunday "potentially" all day 
-However I want to play every day at variable short intervals (one hour here one hour their) 

Being realistic, most of us are similar and want that one hour here and one hour their. 



I'm sorry if this sounds like yet another "we want some solo content".  But so far Visionary Realms being pre alpha is only showing "devote all your time" content.  I understand it's pre alpha, but this could turn away potential players.  Infact I see many first generation old timers complaining they don't have time to "devote all your time".  I see many mmorpg players that will not even play Pantheon at all..... This could be un-justifiable where the game could be for them too ! 

It would be nice to see rich personal preparation videos such as harvesting and crafting, and what ever else they have is store for us. Something like a Rogue sneaking deep into a cave, or an epic battle between a rat and a player for a rite of passage.  

A promise of some solo content carries no weight, until players actually see it... Sorry I'm so blunt !

pantaro

I've gone back and forth alot on if pantheon is a game i should care about or not. On one hand i want a game where grouping and my role in the group means something,on the other do i really need a game that requires me to group all the time to have that?

After the most recent dev chat thing on youtube someone commented on a thread regarding it on this site about 2 hours to do anything meaningful...

which i found amusing(For me at least) it made me think of something i really never put a ton of thought into before.My gaming tends to be even more sporadic than the OP and as much as i really just roll my eyes often at all the modern mmo's and their shallowness. having to set aside a 2 to 3 hour block of time just to do something in a game is really no different to me than raiding in any other mmo.

1.i'm no fan of raiding these days,but do enjoy the occasional group content

2.I always hated feeling chained to my PC During raid times

which hey if thats what they are going for more power to them and i'm not gonna ask them to change a damn thing for me.

Mendel

As someone who spent over 4 hours one day trying to create a group (EQ1, Kunark Era, trying to build a group to explore in Droga), I sincerely hope that it will be easier to build a group than it was in the old days.  Pantheon is supposed to be group-focused after all.  Two hours is a relatively long playing time for people who have other things to do in their life.  Joining a group isn't the goal of playing any game, spending an hour to find a group isn't going to be conducive to attracting new players.

I really hope that there will be a lot of short duration content for people who can't devote 2, 3 or more hours per day to playing this game.  This either means a lot of solo content or the ability to find a group in 10-15 minutes.  With everything in Pantheon being so group focused already, I hope this ends up being game changes to improve the grouping process.

To achieve this, there must be tangible incentives to add more players to a group.  That's players, not multi-boxed characters.  (People have fun, not characters).  This also means if a group 4 zones away needs another character, there should also be methods to quickly incorporate the new character into the group.  I'd love to see substantial group bonuses for 6 unique people to encourage people to invite others.  A 'perfect' game also needs fully capable characters each capable of taking another classes place (i.e., cleric, shaman, and druid classes being completely interchangeable as a group healer), and some form of 'Come Here' or 'Go There' spell/ability (in multiple classes) to speed up the process.

Yep, that's fast travel and a lot of people don't like it in their MMORPGs.  It's a modern convenience that helps cater to those filthy casuals that don't want to spend 4+ hours a day in a game.  As I see it, a game either has to adapt to meet the needs of a wide customer base, or learn to make do on a meager handful of 200-300 players per server at any given time.

I think everyone wants Pantheon to be a successful game, not another gaming ghost town like EQ1 is today.

maskedweasel

I think it's going to be a tough balancing act. It also depends on what they mean by "meaningful" content.  For example, 2 hours of playtime for a raid, yeah that could be a long raid,  but they may also take into account finding that group, and whatever else happens along the way. 

Logging in simply to explore the world, do a few quests or something like that, I don't anticipate large groups being needed for that,  but maybe there will be quest content that requires a group.  

Or maybe they'll have adopted the newer premise, with more of an "open group" feel.  Just by being in an area or hitting an enemy will count as getting credit for something.  

Ideally we would all have groups and friends that are on our same schedule, but that just isn't the case for me these days.  Even with a group of gamers that I talk to daily, we rarely find ourselves in the same games at the same times.  

This game is going to sink or swim on their ability to make group content accessible, especially when content is being geared towards 6 person groups, and some content, double that.

Octagon7711

The only reason people would want to do six man only groups would be for special content, like they do for most games now.  Making the entire game special content requiring six man groups is like playing a PvE MOBA.

Shaigh

Bioware gave out some interesting information regarding how much time people spent playing swtor during the initial month.

• The average player did 4-6 hours gaming sessions.
• The average player spent 40 hours per week playing the game.

There are thousands and thousands of mobile games if you want to spend 5-45 minutes  but the average PC gamers is generally fine with spending 2 hours each time they play a game.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

El-Hefe

My wife decides how much and how often I get to play video games.  So I hardly ever get to.  #somebodyhugme

Quizzical

Shaigh said:

Bioware gave out some interesting information regarding how much time people spent playing swtor during the initial month.

• The average player did 4-6 hours gaming sessions.
• The average player spent 40 hours per week playing the game.

There are thousands and thousands of mobile games if you want to spend 5-45 minutes  but the average PC gamers is generally fine with spending 2 hours each time they play a game.

I think you're missing some enormously important qualifiers there that would completely change the meaning of the statements.

pantaro

blueturtle13 said:

Shaigh said:

Bioware gave out some interesting information regarding how much time people spent playing swtor during the initial month.

• The average player did 4-6 hours gaming sessions.
• The average player spent 40 hours per week playing the game.

There are thousands and thousands of mobile games if you want to spend 5-45 minutes  but the average PC gamers is generally fine with spending 2 hours each time they play a game.

Data does not support that the ‘average’ PC gamer is gaming at 2 hour stretches on a continual basis. 
Mmorpg players on the other hand are not average gamers. 

there is also the fact that swtor and at launch isnt the greatest example. alot of people go hard in a new game at launch. some of my best online friends that i have to this day i met in my first swtor guild at launch,but guess what?

6-9 months later that same guild was dead and everyone of them had left the game! I feel like the real test is when something isnt new anymore,how do people play at that point?

MrMelGibson

El-Hefe said:

My wife decides how much and how often I get to play video games.  So I hardly ever get to.  #somebodyhugme

Time for a trade in

some-clueless-guy

I haven't followed this game enough to give meaningful feedback, but I think that the old-school vibe needs to blend with modern mechanics. They need to adapt; and this is true for all upcoming "revival" games.

Building a game for an audience that played 5 hours a day 20 years ago and expecting that they haven't changed their habits is a recipe for disaster. Among the 20yo (or younger) who can afford to spend 5+ hours on the game daily, are the ones interested in old-school game-play enough to make the game economically viable? Also will they stick around more than 2 months?

svann

The trick to not requiring people to commit to 2 hours in a group is to make it easy to replace people in the group.  The general case cant be that if one person drops the group is screwed.  If the tank leaves you have to be able to get the replacement tank to the group somehow.  It doesnt always have to be easy, but it cant always be impossible.

delete5230

Mendel said:

As someone who spent over 4 hours one day trying to create a group (EQ1, Kunark Era, trying to build a group to explore in Droga), I sincerely hope that it will be easier to build a group than it was in the old days.  Pantheon is supposed to be group-focused after all.  Two hours is a relatively long playing time for people who have other things to do in their life.  Joining a group isn't the goal of playing any game, spending an hour to find a group isn't going to be conducive to attracting new players.

I really hope that there will be a lot of short duration content for people who can't devote 2, 3 or more hours per day to playing this game.  This either means a lot of solo content or the ability to find a group in 10-15 minutes.  With everything in Pantheon being so group focused already, I hope this ends up being game changes to improve the grouping process.

To achieve this, there must be tangible incentives to add more players to a group.  That's players, not multi-boxed characters.  (People have fun, not characters).  This also means if a group 4 zones away needs another character, there should also be methods to quickly incorporate the new character into the group.  I'd love to see substantial group bonuses for 6 unique people to encourage people to invite others.  A 'perfect' game also needs fully capable characters each capable of taking another classes place (i.e., cleric, shaman, and druid classes being completely interchangeable as a group healer), and some form of 'Come Here' or 'Go There' spell/ability (in multiple classes) to speed up the process.

Yep, that's fast travel and a lot of people don't like it in their MMORPGs.  It's a modern convenience that helps cater to those filthy casuals that don't want to spend 4+ hours a day in a game.  As I see it, a game either has to adapt to meet the needs of a wide customer base, or learn to make do on a meager handful of 200-300 players per server at any given time.

I think everyone wants Pantheon to be a successful game, not another gaming ghost town like EQ1 is today.

I'm definitely NOT a fan of fast travel, 
However Their are a lot of techniques in place of, 

Example: 
- DPs classes with the ability to summons other players. 
- Tanks and Healers that can teleport "to a group" but with a little penalty so they don't go too crazy...… This would give incentive to play these needed classes.   
- Rare summons stones randomly scattered around the world that are sole bound (cant google).  Or in known locations but are extreme dangerous locations for a groups to find.

JamesErhart

Yes, it is tough to manage time between gaming and real life. But if the game is good and you are paying serious attention to it, it worth getting time for. Generally I like to play games only on my free time but if I get stuck over any step then I try to play the game until I clear it. Apart from it I think yes it is totally dependent on the game content thing that how attractive it is to pay hundreds of hours of your life.

Albatroes

I'm starting to wonder....is it not alright for a dev team to develop a game that "isn't for you"?

kitarad

Albatroes said:

I'm starting to wonder....is it not alright for a dev team to develop a game that "isn't for you"?

Heresy I tell you!

Kyleran

Quizzical said:

Shaigh said:

Bioware gave out some interesting information regarding how much time people spent playing swtor during the initial month.

• The average player did 4-6 hours gaming sessions.
• The average player spent 40 hours per week playing the game.

There are thousands and thousands of mobile games if you want to spend 5-45 minutes  but the average PC gamers is generally fine with spending 2 hours each time they play a game.

I think you're missing some enormously important qualifiers there that would completely change the meaning of the statements.

The missing statistic is what percentage of those players were soloing, my guess is a fairly high percentage.

Kyleran

As is often the case with the OPs threads, it is a 'sum of all fears' starting with assumptions which really weren't true such as the classic "first generation = devote all of your time."

Perhaps this was the case in early EQ, it wasn't in DAOC, Lineage 1/2, & Shadowbane which all MMOs I played pre WOW.

DAOC was the most grouping intensive of the lot, especially levels 40 to 50, but even there I did a lot of soloing.  

Once I started multi boxing using power leveling capable alts grouping became entirely optional and I only did it at my convenience, mostly to help guildies or fight for the realm.

My guess is Pantheon will offer a standard mix of grouping or solo, but if it doesn't its not something to dread, unless like the OP you believe Pantheon is the last and only hope for MMORPG gaming.

Amathe

delete5230 said:

First generation = devote all your time 
Second generation = A lot of your time 
Third  generation = half hour clips of your time 

I don't now where this comes from. I played first generation mmorpgs without ever having to devote all my time to any of them. And I have played modern mmorpgs and never played in just 30 minute intervals.

I will say as to all three types of games I have played them quite a bit. But nothing has changed from one game to another. How much I play is a function of how much I like them.

Octagon7711

Shaigh said:

Bioware gave out some interesting information regarding how much time people spent playing swtor during the initial month.

• The average player did 4-6 hours gaming sessions.
• The average player spent 40 hours per week playing the game.

There are thousands and thousands of mobile games if you want to spend 5-45 minutes  but the average PC gamers is generally fine with spending 2 hours each time they play a game.

I played that game at beta, launch, and many years afterwards.  The game had a lot of time-sinks built into it with extra long travel times.  A lot of running back and forth from point A to B.  Playing it today, they've added a lot of shortcuts, extra xp for faster leveling, and tons of solo content. 

So just like STO and a lot of other well known MMO's they have made it easy to login do and get something done no matter how much or how little time you have available.  During the first month initial numbers are always high.  SWTOR went F2P and became a ghost town until they made those changes to leveling, not to mention adding level ups.

Octagon7711

I want to see how inventory management will be and the ability to share with alts.  Old school usually means a lot of running back and forth as inventory space fills up quickly and having to delete junk or the cheapest drops during runs just to be able to finish them.  I do hope they are generous with space but you never know.

Wellspring

DMKano said:

Quizzical said:

Shaigh said:

Bioware gave out some interesting information regarding how much time people spent playing swtor during the initial month.

• The average player did 4-6 hours gaming sessions.
• The average player spent 40 hours per week playing the game.

There are thousands and thousands of mobile games if you want to spend 5-45 minutes  but the average PC gamers is generally fine with spending 2 hours each time they play a game.

I think you're missing some enormously important qualifiers there that would completely change the meaning of the statements.

Having access to latest video game player trend data and market research - yep 4-6 hour daily is nowhere near average today, not even close to reality 

What is the average today?

Amathe

Octagon7711 said:

I do hope they are generous with space but you never know.

Yes and no. My experience with games made by Brad is if there is anything you desire, be it bag space, or anything really, they will start you with a crummy one, and then you get a better one from a quest, and a better one from crafting, and a better one from a dungeon, and a better one from a raid. Everything follows this paradigm. Anything you want can be improved upon, but it has to be pursued and obtained. 

MMOman101

DMKano said:

Quizzical said:

Shaigh said:

Bioware gave out some interesting information regarding how much time people spent playing swtor during the initial month.

• The average player did 4-6 hours gaming sessions.
• The average player spent 40 hours per week playing the game.

There are thousands and thousands of mobile games if you want to spend 5-45 minutes  but the average PC gamers is generally fine with spending 2 hours each time they play a game.

I think you're missing some enormously important qualifiers there that would completely change the meaning of the statements.

Having access to latest video game player trend data and market research - yep 4-6 hour daily is nowhere near average today, not even close to reality 

Does this data break down by genre, and device players are on.  I fully expect that console players of a specific genre (FPS for example) are playing a similar amount of time that they did 5 year ago. 

To be honest I fully expect that MMO players on PC are playing a similar amount of time.  There are so many different types of games and so many devices that people play on I have to wonder if we averaging apples and pears when there only used to be apples. 

Can you elaborate further, even if you are precluded from providing specifics. 

svann

DMKano said:

Quizzical said:

Shaigh said:

Bioware gave out some interesting information regarding how much time people spent playing swtor during the initial month.

• The average player did 4-6 hours gaming sessions.
• The average player spent 40 hours per week playing the game.

There are thousands and thousands of mobile games if you want to spend 5-45 minutes  but the average PC gamers is generally fine with spending 2 hours each time they play a game.

I think you're missing some enormously important qualifiers there that would completely change the meaning of the statements.

Having access to latest video game player trend data and market research - yep 4-6 hour daily is nowhere near average today, not even close to reality 

It wasnt the average in any game ever.  First month statistics are outlier on the face of it. 

And even then I have a hard time believing 4-6 hours average playtime.  Maybe a large portion of those people just went afk and didnt logoff so they wouldnt have to spend time in a first month login queue?