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Ars Technica: Game Dev Suffers Broken Teeth, Skull Fracture After Trying To Film Arrest

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  • RottsteinRottstein Member UncommonPosts: 66
    lahnmir said:
    Rottstein said:
    lahnmir said:
    Rottstein said:
    Phry said:
    I've literally watched in HD American law enforcement pile drive peoples heads in to the pavement or straight murder them with little to no provocation and then after, experience a certain group of people try to explain it away.

    Good luck with a picture of a broken tooth, story, and alleged footage. Hey at least she's white and makes video games. Maybe she'll have some luck with her peers.


    The police have body cam footage, and security video footage, if the police did overstep the mark then there will be evidence to support it. Also the police do not 'murder' people, though sometimes it is unfortunately necessary for them to use deadly force, they do not do so without good reason, and when they do it is not murder, i think people tend to forget that the police are allowed to use whatever force is necessary and the easiest way of not having bad things happen to you is 1. don't break the law, and 2. follow police instructions when they are given. :/
    I think you get the prize for most ridiculous comment of the thread.  There is so much wrong with your comments in the sense that they defy any real thought process and tend to sound almost like a brainwashing.

    Interesting, because what he described is EXACTLY what the police can and should do, same for regular citizens. Maybe you are trying to say that US police is really bad, corrupt or badly trained? In that case say so, you cricitize without saying anything constructive or useful yourself.lahnmir said:
    Rottstein said:
    lahnmir said:
    Rottstein said:
    Phry said:
    I've literally watched in HD American law enforcement pile drive peoples heads in to the pavement or straight murder them with little to no provocation and then after, experience a certain group of people try to explain it away.

    Good luck with a picture of a broken tooth, story, and alleged footage. Hey at least she's white and makes video games. Maybe she'll have some luck with her peers.


    The police have body cam footage, and security video footage, if the police did overstep the mark then there will be evidence to support it. Also the police do not 'murder' people, though sometimes it is unfortunately necessary for them to use deadly force, they do not do so without good reason, and when they do it is not murder, i think people tend to forget that the police are allowed to use whatever force is necessary and the easiest way of not having bad things happen to you is 1. don't break the law, and 2. follow police instructions when they are given. :/
    I think you get the prize for most ridiculous comment of the thread.  There is so much wrong with your comments in the sense that they defy any real thought process and tend to sound almost like a brainwashing.

    Interesting, because what he described is EXACTLY what the police can and should do, same for regular citizens. Maybe you are trying to say that US police is really bad, corrupt or badly trained? In that case say so, you cricitize without saying anything constructive or useful yourself.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    You also believe police are justified in killing people for petty crimes if they "don't listen to the cops"?

    Because that is what both he and you are saying.
    No, he isn't saying that. He is saying that in certain cases lethal force is allowed to be used by the police. And if they make a bad decision because of whatever reason (they are still humans after all) they will be punished appropriately. And yes, they may use whatever means are required by the situation (so not excesive), you need to listen to the police, its really simple and easy actually.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir


    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    You also believe police are justified in killing people for petty crimes if they "don't listen to the cops"?

    Because that is what both he and you are saying.
    No, he isn't saying that. He is saying that in certain cases lethal force is allowed to be used by the police. And if they make a bad decision because of whatever reason (they are still humans after all) they will be punished appropriately. And yes, they may use whatever means are required by the situation (so not excesive), you need to listen to the police, its really simple and easy actually.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    You can live in your utopian view of society, I will continue to live in the real world.

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    thunderC said:
    Kyleran said:
    I've literally watched in HD American law enforcement pile drive peoples heads in to the pavement or straight murder them with little to no provocation and then after, experience a certain group of people try to explain it away.

    Good luck with a picture of a broken tooth, story, and alleged footage. Hey at least she's white and makes video games. Maybe she'll have some luck with her peers.


    While quite true, in almost every situation the over use of force is a result of failing to exactly comply with what the police are ordering the other person to do, or a complete misunderstanding by the police of the actual situation.






    Meaning what? Over use of force or murder is the proper response to non-compliance and misunderstanding?

    That's a big grey area to subjectively permanently damage, or murder people.

    If preservation of life and limb was a priority, these debates wouldn't need to be had on any front.
    If you are going to wrestle , resist or put your hands on a cop when said officer is carrying a loaded firearm then anything that happens after that is ON YOU....

    Here is a tip for not getting shot, Don't be a moron, follow instructions and you will be fine
    That may work in your bubble, but that's not reality outside of it.

    Outside of that FACT, non-compliance/resisting should not be a pre-cursor to permanent damage or death of any human. If that's the case, that type of law enforcement doesn't need to be systemic. We can police ourselves and make those types of mistakes and let the rule of law sort it out.
    Phaserlight
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • OnecrazyguyOnecrazyguy Member UncommonPosts: 99
    edited August 2018
    Well, to me it sounds like the accusers against the police officer are racist. Seeing that the officers name is Spanish...this further goes along that line that this is a hate crime against him due to certain political spheres wanting a wall and "OUT OUT OUT" (their words).

    On top of that, they (the police) had footage of what happened and it'll become public so the racist story against the officer will lose face because the footage is 100% proof. If the police say they have it and saw it, then nothing else matters. I guess they could edit it, but I don't see that happening. Thats too easy to prove by outside parties that examine the footage.

    In any case...every criminal says they didn't do anything wrong and they are innocent. Of course, sometimes police go too far...but these days with all the police cams police have to wear, its becoming much rarer in the US.
    Where in any of this does it mention racism as an issue? Is this something you're bringing up or is there actual fact other than the dude's name?
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited August 2018
    If this was a white cop, and not a Hispanic cop...the person behind these accusations I'm 100% sure would have acted like there was no problem at all and would have listened to the cop and been calm. Then there'd have been no drama at all. 

    I'm perfectly okay with racists getting the beat down. Especially if they act in a racist manner (in this case the person attacked the cop) and attack whoever they are afraid of (because racists are actually afraid of whoever they are racist about since they know they are greater than they are)

    Please don't do this either. Police operate on protocols across the board. The racial makeup of the person behind the blue suit that represents bad training is minor.

    Again, if preservation of life and limb was a priority all these conversations of who and what would cease. 

    Unfortunately in the United States people only believe in life and liberty if you're from a certain group wearing a certain color hat.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    edited August 2018
    Well, to me it sounds like the accusers against the police officer are racist. Seeing that the officers name is Spanish...this further goes along that line that this is a hate crime against him due to certain political spheres wanting a wall and "OUT OUT OUT" (their words).

    On top of that, they (the police) had footage of what happened and it'll become public so the racist story against the officer will lose face because the footage is 100% proof. If the police say they have it and saw it, then nothing else matters. I guess they could edit it, but I don't see that happening. Thats too easy to prove by outside parties that examine the footage.

    In any case...every criminal says they didn't do anything wrong and they are innocent. Of course, sometimes police go too far...but these days with all the police cams police have to wear, its becoming much rarer in the US.
    Where in any of this does it mention racism as an issue? Is this something you're bringing up or is there actual fact other than the dude's name?
    Of course race is an issue when a person of a different nationality is involved. This guy is an Hispanic cop and the person involved is white. That is a racial conflict right there.

    Similarly. From threads involving race have come up, there are often racist remarks. Like the chinese banning that one game or whatever it was and a bunch of people posting racist remarks in that thread against Chinese...it was in the news section of this site or maybe the video section...that too showed racial conflicts are STILL a major issue today.

    If this guy was white...

    A: No one would care
    Or
    B: The person involved (the supposed victim) would have more than likely complied and not made a big deal out of it so it wouldn't even been news worthy
    Or
    C: Both

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  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Well, to me it sounds like the accusers against the police officer are racist. Seeing that the officers name is Spanish...this further goes along that line that this is a hate crime against him due to certain political spheres wanting a wall and "OUT OUT OUT" (their words).

    On top of that, they (the police) had footage of what happened and it'll become public so the racist story against the officer will lose face because the footage is 100% proof. If the police say they have it and saw it, then nothing else matters. I guess they could edit it, but I don't see that happening. Thats too easy to prove by outside parties that examine the footage.

    In any case...every criminal says they didn't do anything wrong and they are innocent. Of course, sometimes police go too far...but these days with all the police cams police have to wear, its becoming much rarer in the US.
    Where in any of this does it mention racism as an issue? Is this something you're bringing up or is there actual fact other than the dude's name?
    Of course race is an issue when a person of a different nationality is involved. This guy is an Hispanic cop and the person involved is white. That is a racial conflict right there.

    Similarly. From threads involving race have come up, there are often racist remarks. Like the chinese banning that one game or whatever it was and a bunch of people posting racist remarks in that thread against Chinese...it was in the news section of this site or maybe the video section...that too showed racial conflicts are STILL a major issue today.

    If this guy was white...

    A: No one would care
    Or
    B: The person involved (the supposed victim) would have more than likely complied and not made a big deal out of it so it wouldn't even been news worthy
    Or
    C: Both
    Yeah no. This is dumb, and you're not helping.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Well, to me it sounds like the accusers against the police officer are racist. Seeing that the officers name is Spanish...this further goes along that line that this is a hate crime against him due to certain political spheres wanting a wall and "OUT OUT OUT" (their words).

    On top of that, they (the police) had footage of what happened and it'll become public so the racist story against the officer will lose face because the footage is 100% proof. If the police say they have it and saw it, then nothing else matters. I guess they could edit it, but I don't see that happening. Thats too easy to prove by outside parties that examine the footage.

    In any case...every criminal says they didn't do anything wrong and they are innocent. Of course, sometimes police go too far...but these days with all the police cams police have to wear, its becoming much rarer in the US.
    Where in any of this does it mention racism as an issue? Is this something you're bringing up or is there actual fact other than the dude's name?
    Of course race is an issue when a person of a different nationality is involved. This guy is an Hispanic cop and the person involved is white. That is a racial conflict right there.

    Similarly. From threads involving race have come up, there are often racist remarks. Like the chinese banning that one game or whatever it was and a bunch of people posting racist remarks in that thread against Chinese...it was in the news section of this site or maybe the video section...that too showed racial conflicts are STILL a major issue today.

    If this guy was white...

    A: No one would care
    Or
    B: The person involved (the supposed victim) would have more than likely complied and not made a big deal out of it so it wouldn't even been news worthy
    Or
    C: Both
    Yeah no. This is dumb, and you're not helping.
    But you agree, this is a racial conflict as two races are involved, yes? That is the problem here with the conflict. That is a much bigger problem than a broken tooth and whatever else she got.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,934
    Rottstein said:
    lahnmir said:
    Rottstein said:
    lahnmir said:
    Rottstein said:
    Phry said:
    I've literally watched in HD American law enforcement pile drive peoples heads in to the pavement or straight murder them with little to no provocation and then after, experience a certain group of people try to explain it away.

    Good luck with a picture of a broken tooth, story, and alleged footage. Hey at least she's white and makes video games. Maybe she'll have some luck with her peers.


    The police have body cam footage, and security video footage, if the police did overstep the mark then there will be evidence to support it. Also the police do not 'murder' people, though sometimes it is unfortunately necessary for them to use deadly force, they do not do so without good reason, and when they do it is not murder, i think people tend to forget that the police are allowed to use whatever force is necessary and the easiest way of not having bad things happen to you is 1. don't break the law, and 2. follow police instructions when they are given. :/
    I think you get the prize for most ridiculous comment of the thread.  There is so much wrong with your comments in the sense that they defy any real thought process and tend to sound almost like a brainwashing.

    Interesting, because what he described is EXACTLY what the police can and should do, same for regular citizens. Maybe you are trying to say that US police is really bad, corrupt or badly trained? In that case say so, you cricitize without saying anything constructive or useful yourself.lahnmir said:
    Rottstein said:
    lahnmir said:
    Rottstein said:
    Phry said:
    I've literally watched in HD American law enforcement pile drive peoples heads in to the pavement or straight murder them with little to no provocation and then after, experience a certain group of people try to explain it away.

    Good luck with a picture of a broken tooth, story, and alleged footage. Hey at least she's white and makes video games. Maybe she'll have some luck with her peers.


    The police have body cam footage, and security video footage, if the police did overstep the mark then there will be evidence to support it. Also the police do not 'murder' people, though sometimes it is unfortunately necessary for them to use deadly force, they do not do so without good reason, and when they do it is not murder, i think people tend to forget that the police are allowed to use whatever force is necessary and the easiest way of not having bad things happen to you is 1. don't break the law, and 2. follow police instructions when they are given. :/
    I think you get the prize for most ridiculous comment of the thread.  There is so much wrong with your comments in the sense that they defy any real thought process and tend to sound almost like a brainwashing.

    Interesting, because what he described is EXACTLY what the police can and should do, same for regular citizens. Maybe you are trying to say that US police is really bad, corrupt or badly trained? In that case say so, you cricitize without saying anything constructive or useful yourself.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    You also believe police are justified in killing people for petty crimes if they "don't listen to the cops"?

    Because that is what both he and you are saying.
    No, he isn't saying that. He is saying that in certain cases lethal force is allowed to be used by the police. And if they make a bad decision because of whatever reason (they are still humans after all) they will be punished appropriately. And yes, they may use whatever means are required by the situation (so not excesive), you need to listen to the police, its really simple and easy actually.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir


    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    You also believe police are justified in killing people for petty crimes if they "don't listen to the cops"?

    Because that is what both he and you are saying.
    No, he isn't saying that. He is saying that in certain cases lethal force is allowed to be used by the police. And if they make a bad decision because of whatever reason (they are still humans after all) they will be punished appropriately. And yes, they may use whatever means are required by the situation (so not excesive), you need to listen to the police, its really simple and easy actually.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    You can live in your utopian view of society, I will continue to live in the real world.

    Let me quote myself again from a previous post:

    Maybe you are trying to say that US police is really bad, corrupt or badly trained? In that case say so, you criticize without saying anything constructive or useful yourself

    You are doing it again. Say what you want to actually say, not just some snide remarks judging others while making minimum to no effort yourself. I trust the legal systems and cops yes, I have no reason not to, I don't live in the USA. Your mileage might vary but you don't actually tell anything so only god knows what you are on about.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Dakerummolou
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,676
    Well, those cops who shot and killed that swatted homeowner who was just answering the door or the cops who shot that guy running away 17 times pretty much just got a slap on the wrist.  So even if what this lady is saying is true, it probably won't amount to much.

    I wish the videos were public.  Really, the lady was recording, the store security was (allegedly) recording, and the cop's body cam was (allegedly) recording.  You'd think it'd be obvious to the people who saw the (not yet(?) public) videos who's telling the truth and who wasn't.  ...hopefully.
  • BladeburaibaBladeburaiba Member UncommonPosts: 131
    That may work in your bubble, but that's not reality outside of it.

    Outside of that FACT, non-compliance/resisting should not be a pre-cursor to permanent damage or death of any human. If that's the case, that type of law enforcement doesn't need to be systemic. We can police ourselves and make those types of mistakes and let the rule of law sort it out.

    When cops go into a situation, the only way they know who the "bad" guys are is how aggressive the people are toward them.  While per se non-compliance/resisting "should" not be a pre-cursor to death, in practice, someone who is resisting or verbally fighting is immediately identified as an enemy and puts themselves in that situation.  Someone can pull a knife or shoot you with your own gun in an instant. The cop's first responsibility is to protect himself and his weapon.  It would take too long to explain why, but you should be able to work it out yourself.

    You seem to live in a world of "shoulds", and maybe you are the one who should be facing reality.  Cops are not, and I don't expect them to, going to sacrifice their life to make sure you are not hurt.  They put themselves in danger to uphold the law, and if you think it's cowardly to not challenge someone with a gun for no gain, then you ought to be brave enough to face the consequence of meeting a cop who may shoot too early because HE is cowardly.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited August 2018
    Well, to me it sounds like the accusers against the police officer are racist. Seeing that the officers name is Spanish...this further goes along that line that this is a hate crime against him due to certain political spheres wanting a wall and "OUT OUT OUT" (their words).

    On top of that, they (the police) had footage of what happened and it'll become public so the racist story against the officer will lose face because the footage is 100% proof. If the police say they have it and saw it, then nothing else matters. I guess they could edit it, but I don't see that happening. Thats too easy to prove by outside parties that examine the footage.

    In any case...every criminal says they didn't do anything wrong and they are innocent. Of course, sometimes police go too far...but these days with all the police cams police have to wear, its becoming much rarer in the US.
    Where in any of this does it mention racism as an issue? Is this something you're bringing up or is there actual fact other than the dude's name?
    Of course race is an issue when a person of a different nationality is involved. This guy is an Hispanic cop and the person involved is white. That is a racial conflict right there.

    Similarly. From threads involving race have come up, there are often racist remarks. Like the chinese banning that one game or whatever it was and a bunch of people posting racist remarks in that thread against Chinese...it was in the news section of this site or maybe the video section...that too showed racial conflicts are STILL a major issue today.

    If this guy was white...

    A: No one would care
    Or
    B: The person involved (the supposed victim) would have more than likely complied and not made a big deal out of it so it wouldn't even been news worthy
    Or
    C: Both
    Yeah no. This is dumb, and you're not helping.
    But you agree, this is a racial conflict as two races are involved, yes? That is the problem here with the conflict. That is a much bigger problem than a broken tooth and whatever else she got.
    No. I absolutely do not, nor do I know enough about the the developers case to make any statements to it.

    I just know that the injuries she claims to have suffered are not conducive to good police work regardless of the variables invovled.

    I'm more bothered by the amount of people who seem to drop their pants around their ankles as it pertains to American law enforcement doing something to somebody outside of their isolated bubble.

    "Oh just do what they say". They can write it or obnoxiously press the agree button to theirs hearts content but there's too much subjectivity to that statement which is why it's so easily abused.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited August 2018
    Not on topic but related: just recently had a citizen in my city who was shot running from police.  Apparently, the police claim he was "in a position to shoot police".  However, he was struck by the officer's bullet in the back of the head.  Released street camera footage confirms he was shot while running away from the officer.  Literally in broad daylight.

    Tell me, how do you aim using the back of your head?  Or, I guess if we take it as a given that he was looking at the officer (since he was apparently in a position to fire at him), how did the bullet from the officer manage to curve around and hit the back of his head?  And, while considering all this, ask yourself: how do you manage a firing position that leaves the back of your head open to the person you're trying to fire at?  The mind boggles.


    Police procedures need to be reviewed and better training given to officers regarding force response.  While resisting arrest is never advisable, it shouldn't result in escalation to the point of life-threatening harm so often.
    Phaserlight

    image
  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,087
    The use of allowed force is a lot more detailed then just use whatever is necessary to make them comply with your police order. 

    Otherwise they would just shoot any shoplifter that manages to run away. Which fortunately does not happen (I hope), but which some of you are basically defending.

    The amount of force allowed is not only based on the order that is given, but also whether they are perceived as threat and/or what they did.

    Police are human and can at some point make a mistake when under pressure (just like soldiers). This can't always be prevented, but it can also happen because of a lack of training.

    I always wondered why there is such a huge difference in amount of required training course (time and required skills) for police officers in the different states in the USA. And I am not talking about different assignments, but for the basic street cop.

    Most countries have this standardized and it is just based on their function within the force.
    FlyByKnight
  • OnecrazyguyOnecrazyguy Member UncommonPosts: 99
    Well, to me it sounds like the accusers against the police officer are racist. Seeing that the officers name is Spanish...this further goes along that line that this is a hate crime against him due to certain political spheres wanting a wall and "OUT OUT OUT" (their words).

    On top of that, they (the police) had footage of what happened and it'll become public so the racist story against the officer will lose face because the footage is 100% proof. If the police say they have it and saw it, then nothing else matters. I guess they could edit it, but I don't see that happening. Thats too easy to prove by outside parties that examine the footage.

    In any case...every criminal says they didn't do anything wrong and they are innocent. Of course, sometimes police go too far...but these days with all the police cams police have to wear, its becoming much rarer in the US.
    Where in any of this does it mention racism as an issue? Is this something you're bringing up or is there actual fact other than the dude's name?
    Of course race is an issue when a person of a different nationality is involved. This guy is an Hispanic cop and the person involved is white. That is a racial conflict right there.

    Similarly. From threads involving race have come up, there are often racist remarks. Like the chinese banning that one game or whatever it was and a bunch of people posting racist remarks in that thread against Chinese...it was in the news section of this site or maybe the video section...that too showed racial conflicts are STILL a major issue today.

    If this guy was white...

    A: No one would care
    Or
    B: The person involved (the supposed victim) would have more than likely complied and not made a big deal out of it so it wouldn't even been news worthy
    Or
    C: Both
    Yeah no. This is dumb, and you're not helping.
    But you agree, this is a racial conflict as two races are involved, yes? That is the problem here with the conflict. That is a much bigger problem than a broken tooth and whatever else she got.
    That's a stretch actually IMO. If she threw out slurs, then yes, but just because two people are in the same room doesn't mean racism is occurring. That's ridiculous.
    MrMelGibson[Deleted User]Vrika
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,029
    Phry said:
    Whatever the issue here I don't think throwing people around so they end up with these sorts of injuries is good policing, it speaks of someone losing control and exacting revenge.

    Why not tase and incapacitate without busting the person up?
    Because sometimes tasers kill people? you don't use a potentially deadly weapon unless you really need to. :/
    EHH I'm sure a fractured skull that she ended up getting doesn't entirely absolve the notion they didn't use "potentially deadly weapons".  There are a lot of non lethal ways to subdue people.. tasers and mace are just a couple of the best known.  I'm sure if they would have used either, she wouldn't have suffered broken teeth or a fractured skull but.. oh well.
    Are you taking into consideration that some people are unaffected by pepper spray and tazer?  
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited August 2018
    Not on topic but related: just recently had a citizen in my city who was shot running from police.  Apparently, the police claim he was "in a position to shoot police".  However, he was struck by the officer's bullet in the back of the head.  Released street camera footage confirms he was shot while running away from the officer.  Literally in broad daylight.

    Tell me, how do you aim using the back of your head?  Or, I guess if we take it as a given that he was looking at the officer (since he was apparently in a position to fire at him), how did the bullet from the officer manage to curve around and hit the back of his head?  And, while considering all this, ask yourself: how do you manage a firing position that leaves the back of your head open to the person you're trying to fire at?  The mind boggles.


    Police procedures need to be reviewed and better training given to officers regarding force response.  While resisting arrest is never advisable, it shouldn't result in escalation to the point of life-threatening harm so often.
    "He didn't comply so he dies" -Sheeple [agreed by the same "editor" who just had a cape on for the obnoxious ArenaNet writer who rightfully got sh!t canned]
    Phaserlight
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Well, to me it sounds like the accusers against the police officer are racist. Seeing that the officers name is Spanish...this further goes along that line that this is a hate crime against him due to certain political spheres wanting a wall and "OUT OUT OUT" (their words).

    On top of that, they (the police) had footage of what happened and it'll become public so the racist story against the officer will lose face because the footage is 100% proof. If the police say they have it and saw it, then nothing else matters. I guess they could edit it, but I don't see that happening. Thats too easy to prove by outside parties that examine the footage.

    In any case...every criminal says they didn't do anything wrong and they are innocent. Of course, sometimes police go too far...but these days with all the police cams police have to wear, its becoming much rarer in the US.
    Where in any of this does it mention racism as an issue? Is this something you're bringing up or is there actual fact other than the dude's name?
    Of course race is an issue when a person of a different nationality is involved. This guy is an Hispanic cop and the person involved is white. That is a racial conflict right there.

    Similarly. From threads involving race have come up, there are often racist remarks. Like the chinese banning that one game or whatever it was and a bunch of people posting racist remarks in that thread against Chinese...it was in the news section of this site or maybe the video section...that too showed racial conflicts are STILL a major issue today.

    If this guy was white...

    A: No one would care
    Or
    B: The person involved (the supposed victim) would have more than likely complied and not made a big deal out of it so it wouldn't even been news worthy
    Or
    C: Both
    Yeah no. This is dumb, and you're not helping.
    But you agree, this is a racial conflict as two races are involved, yes? That is the problem here with the conflict. That is a much bigger problem than a broken tooth and whatever else she got.
    No. I absolutely do not, nor do I know enough about the the developers case to make any statements to it.

    I just know that the injuries she claims to have suffered are not conducive to good police work regardless of the variables invovled.

    I'm more bothered by the amount of people who seem to drop their pants around their ankles as it pertains to American law enforcement doing something to somebody outside of their isolated bubble.

    "Oh just do what they say". They can write it or obnoxiously press the agree button to theirs hearts content but there's too much subjectivity to that statement which is why it's so easily abused.
    But, if the cop was white...race would not even be an issue, correct?

    That is the problem with racists (not saying you are since the rest isn't part of the quote, but in general)...they only think being racist is okay if the victim is white and the other person is of a different color or nationality. They think racism doesn't exist and can't see minorities as victims. They think its okay for minorities to be treated badly.

    In this case, the cop is Hispanic, the person is not. The person who claims to be a victim attacked the cop (as they said they saw in the body cam) and is now making it a race crime. 

    Though back to the quote...

    If the person in question (the Hispanic cop) was a refugee and a victim of current political spheres and was being threatened to be kicked out...but if he wasn't a cop...and the supposed "victim" then attacked him...would that not be racist? Because being a cop has nothing to do with if someone is a victim of racism, which the cop was.

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,934
    That may work in your bubble, but that's not reality outside of it.

    Outside of that FACT, non-compliance/resisting should not be a pre-cursor to permanent damage or death of any human. If that's the case, that type of law enforcement doesn't need to be systemic. We can police ourselves and make those types of mistakes and let the rule of law sort it out.

    When cops go into a situation, the only way they know who the "bad" guys are is how aggressive the people are toward them.  While per se non-compliance/resisting "should" not be a pre-cursor to death, in practice, someone who is resisting or verbally fighting is immediately identified as an enemy and puts themselves in that situation.  Someone can pull a knife or shoot you with your own gun in an instant. The cop's first responsibility is to protect himself and his weapon.  It would take too long to explain why, but you should be able to work it out yourself.

    You seem to live in a world of "shoulds", and maybe you are the one who should be facing reality.  Cops are not, and I don't expect them to, going to sacrifice their life to make sure you are not hurt.  They put themselves in danger to uphold the law, and if you think it's cowardly to not challenge someone with a gun for no gain, then you ought to be brave enough to face the consequence of meeting a cop who may shoot too early because HE is cowardly.
    Quoted for truth. People don't only get into trouble with the police because they committed a crime. Most of the time it is because A. The don't follow orders given to them (I don't have to listen to you, I am "special.") or because they act illogical or erratic and then they are judged as a liability because of that. The last including aggressive behavior, running away, waving fake guns, yelling etc. etc. These people are strangers to a cop, not "nice Billy who never hurt a fly and loved football and RnB."

    Listen, behave, don't break the law and 95% of the incidents with the police can be prevented. And yes, I believe that, in my country we have pretty decent police and a good law system, can't speak for others.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    MrMelGibson
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

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    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Well, to me it sounds like the accusers against the police officer are racist. Seeing that the officers name is Spanish...this further goes along that line that this is a hate crime against him due to certain political spheres wanting a wall and "OUT OUT OUT" (their words).

    On top of that, they (the police) had footage of what happened and it'll become public so the racist story against the officer will lose face because the footage is 100% proof. If the police say they have it and saw it, then nothing else matters. I guess they could edit it, but I don't see that happening. Thats too easy to prove by outside parties that examine the footage.

    In any case...every criminal says they didn't do anything wrong and they are innocent. Of course, sometimes police go too far...but these days with all the police cams police have to wear, its becoming much rarer in the US.
    Where in any of this does it mention racism as an issue? Is this something you're bringing up or is there actual fact other than the dude's name?
    Of course race is an issue when a person of a different nationality is involved. This guy is an Hispanic cop and the person involved is white. That is a racial conflict right there.

    Similarly. From threads involving race have come up, there are often racist remarks. Like the chinese banning that one game or whatever it was and a bunch of people posting racist remarks in that thread against Chinese...it was in the news section of this site or maybe the video section...that too showed racial conflicts are STILL a major issue today.

    If this guy was white...

    A: No one would care
    Or
    B: The person involved (the supposed victim) would have more than likely complied and not made a big deal out of it so it wouldn't even been news worthy
    Or
    C: Both
    Yeah no. This is dumb, and you're not helping.
    But you agree, this is a racial conflict as two races are involved, yes? That is the problem here with the conflict. That is a much bigger problem than a broken tooth and whatever else she got.
    No. I absolutely do not, nor do I know enough about the the developers case to make any statements to it.

    I just know that the injuries she claims to have suffered are not conducive to good police work regardless of the variables invovled.

    I'm more bothered by the amount of people who seem to drop their pants around their ankles as it pertains to American law enforcement doing something to somebody outside of their isolated bubble.

    "Oh just do what they say". They can write it or obnoxiously press the agree button to theirs hearts content but there's too much subjectivity to that statement which is why it's so easily abused.
    But, if the cop was white...race would not even be an issue, correct?

    That is the problem with racists (not saying you are since the rest isn't part of the quote, but in general)...they only think being racist is okay if the victim is white and the other person is of a different color or nationality. They think racism doesn't exist and can't see minorities as victims. They think its okay for minorities to be treated badly.

    In this case, the cop is Hispanic, the person is not. The person who claims to be a victim attacked the cop (as they said they saw in the body cam) and is now making it a race crime. 

    Though back to the quote...

    If the person in question (the Hispanic cop) was a refugee and a victim of current political spheres and was being threatened to be kicked out...but if he wasn't a cop...and the supposed "victim" then attacked him...would that not be racist? Because being a cop has nothing to do with if someone is a victim of racism, which the cop was.

    It's about American cops being badly trained and system being messed up. The symptoms of this can be racism, sexism and other isms.

    In this case, unless the person IN POWER, or the system did damage because of anything having to do with race color creed or sex then no, It isn't. Is there several documented cases of female developers getting their heads cracked for living? Then carry on.

    Until then, I don't really get what you're on about.

    If preservation of life and limb was a priority all these conversations get to go away. I know I'd personally prefer that. Pretty sure others don't agree though.


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  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    That may work in your bubble, but that's not reality outside of it.

    Outside of that FACT, non-compliance/resisting should not be a pre-cursor to permanent damage or death of any human. If that's the case, that type of law enforcement doesn't need to be systemic. We can police ourselves and make those types of mistakes and let the rule of law sort it out.

    When cops go into a situation, the only way they know who the "bad" guys are is how aggressive the people are toward them.  While per se non-compliance/resisting "should" not be a pre-cursor to death, in practice, someone who is resisting or verbally fighting is immediately identified as an enemy and puts themselves in that situation.  Someone can pull a knife or shoot you with your own gun in an instant. The cop's first responsibility is to protect himself and his weapon.  It would take too long to explain why, but you should be able to work it out yourself.

    You seem to live in a world of "shoulds", and maybe you are the one who should be facing reality.  Cops are not, and I don't expect them to, going to sacrifice their life to make sure you are not hurt.  They put themselves in danger to uphold the law, and if you think it's cowardly to not challenge someone with a gun for no gain, then you ought to be brave enough to face the consequence of meeting a cop who may shoot too early because HE is cowardly.
    Law enforcement agencies first job is to PROTECT & SERVE. If they can't accomplish that without murdering and maiming in non-return fire situations then they shouldn't be getting tax payer dollars. At least not mine.

    If that's the standard, what is their purpose? We can shoot unarmed people, or pile drive somebodies face through a car hood or concrete on our own. We have the judicial system and rule of law to sort us out.

    In the US there's too many cases of non-active shooter, non-bodily harm situations that are being escalated to active shooter/bodily harm BY police.

    There's a difference between human error and policy/protocol.

    "Bad guys" is word used by children playing cowboys and natives or cops and robbers. No adult should use this as it pertains to public safety. Loss of life and limb isn't to be played with.


    Phaserlight
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,888
    Phry said:
    Whatever the issue here I don't think throwing people around so they end up with these sorts of injuries is good policing, it speaks of someone losing control and exacting revenge.

    Why not tase and incapacitate without busting the person up?
    Because sometimes tasers kill people? you don't use a potentially deadly weapon unless you really need to. :/
    EHH I'm sure a fractured skull that she ended up getting doesn't entirely absolve the notion they didn't use "potentially deadly weapons".  There are a lot of non lethal ways to subdue people.. tasers and mace are just a couple of the best known.  I'm sure if they would have used either, she wouldn't have suffered broken teeth or a fractured skull but.. oh well.
    Are you taking into consideration that some people are unaffected by pepper spray and tazer?  
    Well I think, unless they could see the aura from their immunity buff, I think it's pretty safe that either one is a good place to start before semi-truck tackling 100 - 120 lb women... but maybe that's just the gentleman in me. 
    MrMelGibsonPhaserlightLokero



  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,904
    Me too.  If the dev's story checks out, it'll be great "justice" to see the officer receive a laughably pitiful reprimand for assaulting the dev.

    If the police's version checks out, the dev and her family will look like assholes.
    If the officer is found to have been in the wrong he could loose his job, I know that's unlikely but it is the upper limit of the discipline he could be given. If she is in the wrong what is the maximum penalty she will get, social stigma?
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,029
    Phry said:
    Whatever the issue here I don't think throwing people around so they end up with these sorts of injuries is good policing, it speaks of someone losing control and exacting revenge.

    Why not tase and incapacitate without busting the person up?
    Because sometimes tasers kill people? you don't use a potentially deadly weapon unless you really need to. :/
    EHH I'm sure a fractured skull that she ended up getting doesn't entirely absolve the notion they didn't use "potentially deadly weapons".  There are a lot of non lethal ways to subdue people.. tasers and mace are just a couple of the best known.  I'm sure if they would have used either, she wouldn't have suffered broken teeth or a fractured skull but.. oh well.
    Are you taking into consideration that some people are unaffected by pepper spray and tazer?  
    Well I think, unless they could see the aura from their immunity buff, I think it's pretty safe that either one is a good place to start before semi-truck tackling 100 - 120 lb women... but maybe that's just the gentleman in me. 
    Well, I don't know the full story yet, and try not to crucify people beforehand. But this idea that her being a woman somehow makes her less of a threat isn't you being a gentleman, it's being sexist. If someone attacks you, I doubt you would be worried about what gender they are.  Btw, people get injured or die from tazing more often than people realize. 
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,888
    Phry said:
    Whatever the issue here I don't think throwing people around so they end up with these sorts of injuries is good policing, it speaks of someone losing control and exacting revenge.

    Why not tase and incapacitate without busting the person up?
    Because sometimes tasers kill people? you don't use a potentially deadly weapon unless you really need to. :/
    EHH I'm sure a fractured skull that she ended up getting doesn't entirely absolve the notion they didn't use "potentially deadly weapons".  There are a lot of non lethal ways to subdue people.. tasers and mace are just a couple of the best known.  I'm sure if they would have used either, she wouldn't have suffered broken teeth or a fractured skull but.. oh well.
    Are you taking into consideration that some people are unaffected by pepper spray and tazer?  
    Well I think, unless they could see the aura from their immunity buff, I think it's pretty safe that either one is a good place to start before semi-truck tackling 100 - 120 lb women... but maybe that's just the gentleman in me. 
    Well, I don't know the full story yet, and try not to crucify people beforehand. But this idea that her being a woman somehow makes her less of a threat isn't you being a gentleman, it's being sexist. If someone attacks you, I doubt you would be worried about what gender they are.  Btw, people get injured or die from tazing more often than people realize. 

    We're not talking about me here though, if someone attacks me, I'll use what I have available, that isn't the case for an officer who has several options to choose from. Similar to if someone attacks my wife, she carries pepper spray, and she'll use it.  

    Using reasonable force isn't being sexist LOL.  Threat is threat, but if an 8 year old comes out swinging, I guess if I say it's not okay to bodyslam them means I'm ageist.  Being attacked by a chihuahua is the same as being attacked by a rottweiler.  Threat is threat right?  

    People die from non weapon related physical encounters more than people realize.  


    Phaserlight



  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    These types of events will continue to happen more and more often.

    There's one major and obvious reason for it:  So many people today are completely crazy and/or stupid... and, yes, some of them are police officers.

    The good cops out there are terrified for their lives these days.  Wearing a uniform is like having a target painted on you, in this generation.  So, they are, understandably, much more jumpy and aggressive than they often need to be.

    Then you have the bad cops, who are just as crazy and unethical as the nutty criminals.  We've seen several times over the last few years when cops have shot people who weren't doing anything at all.  I mean, we've literally had incidents where people were just sitting still and got shot. 
    This of course makes people more resistant and aggressive towards police.

    So, it's a double whammy, and really puts the decent cops out there in a horrible position.  My respects to the good, sane ones out there trying to do the world some good.  I wouldn't be become a police officer nowadays if you offered me millions... and on that note, the decent cops out there risking their lives are criminally underpaid.  And civilian law enforcement, as a whole, is horribly undermanned(in most areas, at least), which probably doesn't help the situation.
    Scot
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