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Bethesda's Multiplayer vision for FO 76 - an interesting twist

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,051
    Scorchien said:
    Trying to please everyone , you will end up pleasing noone .....

      That being said Modded servers can fix all that , but what im seeing looks like shit as far pvp mechainics go , half-baked Happy World .. Fallout?
    I don't think they are trying to please everyone. There seems to be this thought that they were making some sort of asked for hardcore ffa pvp game when that is not what they are doing.

    They are making an ffa pvp game for people who want more say into whether they pvp or not. That is a whole group of people. It's not all or nothing.





  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,391
    edited August 2018
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:
    Trying to please everyone , you will end up pleasing noone .....

      That being said Modded servers can fix all that , but what im seeing looks like shit as far pvp mechainics go , half-baked Happy World .. Fallout?
    I don't think they are trying to please everyone. There seems to be this thought that they were making some sort of asked for hardcore ffa pvp game when that is not what they are doing.

    They are making an ffa pvp game for people who want more say into whether they pvp or not. That is a whole group of people. It's not all or nothing.


    With the plethora of deterrents/penalties/blockades to PVP it is barely a PVP game , Token PVP will not attract PVP players .. ANd its not FFA pvp by any means with the restrictions and rules in place ..

      But as i interjected Modded Servers would address those issues ..
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,051
    Scorchien said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:
    Trying to please everyone , you will end up pleasing noone .....

      That being said Modded servers can fix all that , but what im seeing looks like shit as far pvp mechainics go , half-baked Happy World .. Fallout?
    I don't think they are trying to please everyone. There seems to be this thought that they were making some sort of asked for hardcore ffa pvp game when that is not what they are doing.

    They are making an ffa pvp game for people who want more say into whether they pvp or not. That is a whole group of people. It's not all or nothing.


    With the plethora of deterrents/penalties/blockades to PVP it is barely a PVP game , Token PVP will not attract PVP players .. ANd its not FFA pvp by any means with the restrictions and rules in place ..

      But as i interjected Modded Servers would address those issues ..
    Then maybe they are not making a pvp game but a game that "has" pvp for players who want to indulge on their own schedules.

    As long as they allow "modded" servers (sort of like Conan Exiles) then I don't see there being an issue for players desiring a more hardcore pvp experience.
    ScorchienKyleran



  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,391
    edited August 2018
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:
    Trying to please everyone , you will end up pleasing noone .....

      That being said Modded servers can fix all that , but what im seeing looks like shit as far pvp mechainics go , half-baked Happy World .. Fallout?
    I don't think they are trying to please everyone. There seems to be this thought that they were making some sort of asked for hardcore ffa pvp game when that is not what they are doing.

    They are making an ffa pvp game for people who want more say into whether they pvp or not. That is a whole group of people. It's not all or nothing.


    With the plethora of deterrents/penalties/blockades to PVP it is barely a PVP game , Token PVP will not attract PVP players .. ANd its not FFA pvp by any means with the restrictions and rules in place ..

      But as i interjected Modded Servers would address those issues ..
    Then maybe they are not making a pvp game but a game that "has" pvp for players who want to indulge on their own schedules.

    As long as they allow "modded" servers (sort of like Conan Exiles) then I don't see there being an issue for players desiring a more hardcore pvp experience.
    and my point ..is just that ..

     But i warn , if they are hoping to attract a PVP crowd to official servers with that rule set .. it will fail miserably in that regard ..

        That will Not attarct your pvp crowd , but rather work just as there rule sets in game, more as a deterrent to playing there game for PVP
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,051
    Scorchien said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:
    Trying to please everyone , you will end up pleasing noone .....

      That being said Modded servers can fix all that , but what im seeing looks like shit as far pvp mechainics go , half-baked Happy World .. Fallout?
    I don't think they are trying to please everyone. There seems to be this thought that they were making some sort of asked for hardcore ffa pvp game when that is not what they are doing.

    They are making an ffa pvp game for people who want more say into whether they pvp or not. That is a whole group of people. It's not all or nothing.


    With the plethora of deterrents/penalties/blockades to PVP it is barely a PVP game , Token PVP will not attract PVP players .. ANd its not FFA pvp by any means with the restrictions and rules in place ..

      But as i interjected Modded Servers would address those issues ..
    Then maybe they are not making a pvp game but a game that "has" pvp for players who want to indulge on their own schedules.

    As long as they allow "modded" servers (sort of like Conan Exiles) then I don't see there being an issue for players desiring a more hardcore pvp experience.
    and my point ..is just that
    and I'm agreeing with you.



  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,621
    edited August 2018
    What is the difference between this and all the reskinned zombieapocalypse gank fests?
  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,191
    edited August 2018
    All of Bethesda's games have sold really well for them. I just have a feeling this one might be their most unpopular one so far. They should of just made Fallout 5. Some people did want a multiplayer version to play with friends not a pvp multiplayer version. They could have just left pvp out and they wouldn't have to issues they are dealing with. I will never understand devs thinking if its multiplayer it has to have pvp.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,051
    Scorchien said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:
    Trying to please everyone , you will end up pleasing noone .....

      That being said Modded servers can fix all that , but what im seeing looks like shit as far pvp mechainics go , half-baked Happy World .. Fallout?
    I don't think they are trying to please everyone. There seems to be this thought that they were making some sort of asked for hardcore ffa pvp game when that is not what they are doing.

    They are making an ffa pvp game for people who want more say into whether they pvp or not. That is a whole group of people. It's not all or nothing.


    With the plethora of deterrents/penalties/blockades to PVP it is barely a PVP game , Token PVP will not attract PVP players .. ANd its not FFA pvp by any means with the restrictions and rules in place ..

      But as i interjected Modded Servers would address those issues ..
    Then maybe they are not making a pvp game but a game that "has" pvp for players who want to indulge on their own schedules.

    As long as they allow "modded" servers (sort of like Conan Exiles) then I don't see there being an issue for players desiring a more hardcore pvp experience.
    and my point ..is just that ..

     But i warn , if they are hoping to attract a PVP crowd to official servers with that rule set .. it will fail miserably in that regard ..

        That will Not attarct your pvp crowd , but rather work just as there rule sets in game, more as a deterrent to playing there game for PVP
    But again, I don't think they are making a "pvp" game so much as a fallout game that allows for a variety of player interaction depending on what the players' want at any given time.

    So in essence, it is a multi-player Fallout game where players can decide the extent of how the multiplayer affects them.



  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,039
    Scorchien said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:
    Trying to please everyone , you will end up pleasing noone .....

      That being said Modded servers can fix all that , but what im seeing looks like shit as far pvp mechainics go , half-baked Happy World .. Fallout?
    I don't think they are trying to please everyone. There seems to be this thought that they were making some sort of asked for hardcore ffa pvp game when that is not what they are doing.

    They are making an ffa pvp game for people who want more say into whether they pvp or not. That is a whole group of people. It's not all or nothing.


    With the plethora of deterrents/penalties/blockades to PVP it is barely a PVP game , Token PVP will not attract PVP players .. ANd its not FFA pvp by any means with the restrictions and rules in place ..

      But as i interjected Modded Servers would address those issues ..
    I'm not sure why they aren't looking to launch with private servers included.  Last I checked, they had that pegged for a post-release patch.

    image
  • RateroRatero Member UncommonPosts: 422
    Kyleran said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    OK, I should know better by now, but it appears quite a bit more info was shared at Quakecon regarding PVP, but this site's news article did a poor job summarizing the details. 

    Here are a few IGN articles which provide some very enlightening info, such as flagged Murderers will not be able to see other players on the map but will be easily identifiable to others.   There's more as well, clearly Bethesda has given it more consideration than I first thought.

    http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/08/11/fallout-76-pvp-detailed-aims-for-danger-without-griefing

    http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/08/14/7-things-we-learned-about-fallout-76-quakecon-2018

    Once again I have to thank MassivelyOP for leading me to this info.

    Its fortunate they appear to be more up to date than this site, getting a lot of my MMO news there lately.
    IGN had the same QuakeCon info this site did. What exactly did you learn in those two articles that you didn't learn from the article you read here?

    The only take away I got from both MMORPG and IGN are that PvP players can kill PvE players. You can go invis for specific players, so after they kill you for the first time. You can flag not to kill people but they can still kill you.
    I believe most of these points were not covered in the MMORPG.com news article.

    https://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=12940&game=1539&ismb=1

    The relevant new info is bracketed in each.
     
    1. If you’re attacked, choose to not engage in PvP, and still get killed by your attacker, then you will have the chance to seek revenge for a [reward of double the XP and caps.]

    2. Those who continue to attack and eventually kill an unwilling player will immediately be labeled a "Wanted Murderer" and [will appear on the map as a red star.]

    3. To add to the tension, those with a bounty on their head [will not be able to see any other players on the map.]

    [4. PvP will not be enabled until players reach level 5]

    [5. No rewards will be given to a player that murders another.]

    [6. Whenever players die, they will only drop the Junk they’ve collected for crafting. All caps, weapons, armor, and other values will be preserved for the player, and it will be possible to respawn near the place where someone died to recover the dropped Junk.]

    [7. However, there’s a good chance it will be scooped up by victorious players if you died during PvP.]

    [8. While the risk of having your base destroyed by PvP nukes exists,] players won’t have to worry about saying goodbye to their settlement permanently.

    [9. A Blueprint system in Fallout 76 will allow you to easily rebuild whatever settlement was destroyed in an attack.]

    [10. Players will also have the ability to declare themselves as a “pacifist,” meaning their attacks won’t start PvP at all -- this is to prevent players jumping in front of someone's bullet to start a fight.]

    11.  You can choose to “ignore” specific players too, which hides you [from each other] on the map

    [12.  Additionally, weapon damage is normalized somewhat across PvP, making the gap between a knife and a minigun still significant, but not as one sided as it would be in the regular PvE balance.]

    13.  You can then respawn at the closest fast travel point for [free, or a farther one at a small Cap cost] though [it will probably have been looted if you died in PvP. ]
    You are mostly correct on your point #11.  I watched the Quake Con video and the person that mentioned that point also stated at the end that the "ignore" was only good for that "session".  You may never meet that person again due to the way the servers are set up but then again there is a chance that you may meet them since it may be in a new "session".

  • CazrielCazriel Member UncommonPosts: 386
    Sovrath said:
    Such a disappointment.

    I have never been more excited than when they announced 76 would be online/multiplayer with PvP. However, after having seen what they intend to do in terms of PvP design, I doubt I will purchase the game at all.

    If they are going to water it down so heavily just to cater to PvEers who are scared of player conflict then why even add it at all? The entire point of PvP is to add another element of risk and create unexpected, suspenseful and intense encounters among the playerbase. 


    Having known die hard PvE players I can assure you that most are not "scared of player conflict" so much as they just don't have patience (or get any enjoyment) with the minority (but very in your face) players who are in the game not for "the game" but to mess with people. That's what they want to do "mess with people."

    I absolutely love FFA pvp but over the years I find it's just not worth it, these people are pretty much creating a toxic environment.

    If people want "unexpected, suspenseful and intense encounters among the player base" then they might want to dial down their issues and the desire to be caustic without any consequences and play "the game" as a game. Because otherwise you're going to see more and more pvp with barriers and conditions.

    It's not the pve players who created this. It's the toxic pvp players.



    Thank you.  This sums it up nicely. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,225
    Sovrath said:
    It's like they don't know their target audience. At all. 
    Who is their target audience? Seems to me it's people who like Fallout but would like more player interaction and some pvp.

    Because that's what this game seems to be aimed at. It's not aimed for "hardcore ffa pvp" players.

    They are not the target audience.
    It's not aimed at either extreme end of the spectrum, gankers or 100% PVP adverse players either. 

    They are betting on fans of the series to support it, and based on what I know now I think I certainly can find my way to enjoying myself in the game.

    These mechanics seem to be a good compromise, though it will be interesting to see how players manage to find those unintended loopholes and whether Bethesda addresses them. (They claim they will.)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 10,623
    Well as you should all know by now social media sets the standards we must all emulate. You don't have a general chat on Twitter, you have people talking in their own bubbles, so something like Discord is preferable. You only talk if you want to and only to your friends.

    There are of course issues with general chat which is the excuse to do away with it, indeed if older gamers do not kick up a fuss I think general and zone chat could disappear from gaming.
    Kyleran

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,225
    edited August 2018
    Funny thing about the looting of "junk" it will be interesting to see how valuable it really is.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 3,990
    Kyleran said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    OK, I should know better by now, but it appears quite a bit more info was shared at Quakecon regarding PVP, but this site's news article did a poor job summarizing the details. 

    Here are a few IGN articles which provide some very enlightening info, such as flagged Murderers will not be able to see other players on the map but will be easily identifiable to others.   There's more as well, clearly Bethesda has given it more consideration than I first thought.

    http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/08/11/fallout-76-pvp-detailed-aims-for-danger-without-griefing

    http://m.ign.com/articles/2018/08/14/7-things-we-learned-about-fallout-76-quakecon-2018

    Once again I have to thank MassivelyOP for leading me to this info.

    Its fortunate they appear to be more up to date than this site, getting a lot of my MMO news there lately.
    IGN had the same QuakeCon info this site did. What exactly did you learn in those two articles that you didn't learn from the article you read here?

    The only take away I got from both MMORPG and IGN are that PvP players can kill PvE players. You can go invis for specific players, so after they kill you for the first time. You can flag not to kill people but they can still kill you.


    [9. A Blueprint system in Fallout 76 will allow you to easily rebuild whatever settlement was destroyed in an attack.]

    [10. Players will also have the ability to declare themselves as a “pacifist,” meaning their attacks won’t start PvP at all -- this is to prevent players jumping in front of someone's bullet to start a fight.]

    11.  You can choose to “ignore” specific players too, which hides you [from each other] on the map

    These 3 points are very important for PVE only players I guess. Especially point 10.

    Too bad though, point 10 was something I wanted to try out immediately :p Sneaking into line of fire, get "accidentally" hit, and then immediately return fire for full pvp damage :) 

  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member RarePosts: 1,587
    Hariken said:
    All of Bethesda's games have sold really well for them. I just have a feeling this one might be their most unpopular one so far. They should of just made Fallout 5. Some people did want a multiplayer version to play with friends not a pvp multiplayer version. They could have just left pvp out and they wouldn't have to issues they are dealing with. I will never understand devs thinking if its multiplayer it has to have pvp.
    Money. It's cheap as hell to make a shell of a game, slap Fallout 4 assets into it, slap PVP on the cover, and be done vs. having to actually make a full and complete Fallout 5.
    MisterZebub


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,033
    Very much looking to this - hoping they keep hacking to a minimum as that's the worst aspect of online PvP games.

    But yeah my friends are very much looking forward to banding together, roaming the wasteland and killing other players and burning their encampments to the ground :)
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member EpicPosts: 3,276
    OG_Zorvan said:
    Hariken said:
    All of Bethesda's games have sold really well for them. I just have a feeling this one might be their most unpopular one so far. They should of just made Fallout 5. Some people did want a multiplayer version to play with friends not a pvp multiplayer version. They could have just left pvp out and they wouldn't have to issues they are dealing with. I will never understand devs thinking if its multiplayer it has to have pvp.
    Money. It's cheap as hell to make a shell of a game, slap Fallout 4 assets into it, slap PVP on the cover, and be done vs. having to actually make a full and complete Fallout 5.
    Plus its online only and probably a "Game as a service" so they can milk the shit out of it.
    OG_Zorvan


    “I was, in days gone by, a believer. But, alas, I came to this beleaguered land and the God in me just … evaporated. Let us change our toast, then, to the God that has forgotten us.”

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,033
    I like the system they are using. It'll result in the gankers ganking each other more often than not.

    Honestly though, I think that because the Fallout fan base is, by likely majority, PvE focused.. they will eventually provide a way to play without any PvP at all. Hopefully they will catch on to this before launch. I think the game will be far less successful if they don't do this. It will be successful either way just because of the IP, but it'll be the difference between that success being good or being great.


    Hmm but if you want to play PvE games - there's other Fallout games already there - what makes this enticing is the multiplayer PvP.

    Also online PvP games are by far the most popular games in the world, so I beg to differ on PvE focus.


    immodium
  • skadadskadad Member UncommonPosts: 348
    DMKano said:
    I like the system they are using. It'll result in the gankers ganking each other more often than not.

    Honestly though, I think that because the Fallout fan base is, by likely majority, PvE focused.. they will eventually provide a way to play without any PvP at all. Hopefully they will catch on to this before launch. I think the game will be far less successful if they don't do this. It will be successful either way just because of the IP, but it'll be the difference between that success being good or being great.


    Hmm but if you want to play PvE games - there's other Fallout games already there - what makes this enticing is the multiplayer PvP.

    Also online PvP games are by far the most popular games in the world, so I beg to differ on PvE focus.


    Yeah, online pvp games with equal footing and no loss of built-up assets/bases whatever, like fortnite and pubg. Corrected it abit for you.
    Kyleran
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,033
    skadad said:
    DMKano said:
    I like the system they are using. It'll result in the gankers ganking each other more often than not.

    Honestly though, I think that because the Fallout fan base is, by likely majority, PvE focused.. they will eventually provide a way to play without any PvP at all. Hopefully they will catch on to this before launch. I think the game will be far less successful if they don't do this. It will be successful either way just because of the IP, but it'll be the difference between that success being good or being great.


    Hmm but if you want to play PvE games - there's other Fallout games already there - what makes this enticing is the multiplayer PvP.

    Also online PvP games are by far the most popular games in the world, so I beg to differ on PvE focus.


    Yeah, online pvp games with equal footing and no loss of built-up assets/bases whatever, like fortnite and pubg. Corrected it abit for you.

    If they want to make F76 a huge hit - recovering from a bass loss should be trivial, and again we have no idea how much time it will take to recover.

    My guess - probably not much, as again they probably want players to take risks and enjoy PvP and not be punished by hours and days of gathering mats to rebuild.

    If they want to lose players in droves - super punishing gameplay after losing all your stuff - that's what drives players away. 

    Kylerancheyane
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