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Fallout 76 - Five Takeaways from QuakeCon About PvP - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
edited August 2018 in News & Features Discussion

imageFallout 76 - Five Takeaways from QuakeCon About PvP - MMORPG.com

Quakecon had a lot of information for fans. Fallout 76 was on the radar and part of their panel talked a lot about the PvP system. This is an immensely important part of the game because Fallout in all of its glory had never really gone multi-player, let alone host PvP. With the market dominated by competitive games right now, Fallout known for its solo adventures and strong narratives, will finally take the leap. Here are five take-ways from Todd Howard’s comments.

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Comments

  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    Well this news relieves my carebear mind. Putting 76 back on my radar. Now if I can just find the Power Helmet Edition for PC somewhere!
    metarealTacticalZombehVinterkrig

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Member UncommonPosts: 438
    About the 'Ignoring' system potentially being counter-productive to the PVP ecosystem, I actually agree. That's why I don't understand why they mix PVP and non-PVP players on the same server/instance. You know there will be griefing, and you know there will be reverse-griefing, and you know there will be tons of unnecessary in-game reports of 'toxic' behavior (if F76 has such a report system). The PVP experience in Fallout 76 would be greatly enhanced and all that toxicity can be avoided by simply spinning up a co-op server.
    KyleranSplattrbartoni33HarikenwandericaPhryScotConstantineMerusSolancerdeniterand 2 others.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Get the drop on oppponent.

    Line up the perfect shot.

    Hit hit hit! Tango down.

    "Wait, it did 1 damage. Enemy has disappeared off the map"

    Just make 2 servers 1 PVE only, 1 PVP and stop trying to mix fire and water.
    BitterClingerKyleranDemogorgonbartoni33HarikenwandericaPhryScotMadFrenchiedeniterand 3 others.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • surthreysurthrey Member UncommonPosts: 7
    edited August 2018
    This article is about 5 takaways. IGNORING is NOT a special option in this game. If you ignore, you can still get damaged. Getting damaged is not avoidable. You can still be killed. Bounties are created. The ecosystem should be more stable than this article indicates. However, PASSIVE is a special option. This is already an option in ESO. This keeps you from accidentally damaging another player/character. Even if they want to be attacked by you. So. You cannot IGNORE someone trying to damage you but you can set yourself as PASSIVE and will not cause damage to others. Strike out Ignoring and replace it with Passive and there are still 5 takaways.
    Kalafaxmaskedweasel
  • El-HefeEl-Hefe Member UncommonPosts: 760
    I wonder if there are certain factors you have to meet in order to ignore. Like you can't ignore if your murderer or you can only ignore x amount of times per day or you can't ignore for x amount of time if you initiate a fight. Sounds interesting though.

    I've got the straight edge.

  • ScarranScarran Member UncommonPosts: 95
    I actually liked what I heard from the presentation, simply because im not interested in the PvP. This has meant that I am now more likely to buy this at launch rather than do what I initially planned which was waiting until they figured out the private server situation.

    But I can see why people who like PvP will be annoyed by this, and as someone mentioned I do not know why they don't have PvE servers and PvP servers, rather than this hybrid which tries to please everyone.
    bartoni33TacticalZombeh
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    This will make bounties harder because PK'ers will have to fight more players who actually fight back. It will make easy bounties rarer.

    Also it will shift the PK griefing in a different direction. PvP players aren't stupid despite what some seem to think. They will wait for "pve" players to battle tough monsters and bosses and hit those players when they're really low on health. Groups will get together to gang up and focus fire on the lowest health players.

    All the greatest visions of "this is how it will happen" are going to be wiped away when real people get in and start doing real people things.

    Personally I don't think this system is clever at all. Just have people flag and to switch the flag they must log out of the server to the main screen and then make change their choice. That way they can't flip flop right in the middle. You would only see players and be on the same servers with players that have the same flag.
    cheyanePanther2103Kylerankjempffbartoni33wandericaesc-joconnorPhryConstantineMerusMadFrenchieand 1 other.
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  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,808
    Todd Howard always lays out the BS in advance of new games.  He functions as a corporate mouthpiece.  Extolling stuff that may or may not be in the game.  His blather on Radiant AI for Oblivion is a classic.   Bethesda has also pretty much depended on modders to fix their broken bits.  Not sure how that will function in '76'.

    Best to wait and see what really comes out. 
    TorvalPhryMendelSolancer

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Todd Howard always lays out the BS in advance of new games.  He functions as a corporate mouthpiece.  Extolling stuff that may or may not be in the game.  His blather on Radiant AI for Oblivion is a classic.   Bethesda has also pretty much depended on modders to fix their broken bits.  Not sure how that will function in '76'.

    Best to wait and see what really comes out. 
    I've wondered about this too.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

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  • kelpheadkelphead Member UncommonPosts: 9
    I'm pretty sure you can only ignore after being killed, they can continue to do small damage until you die.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,137
    edited August 2018
    The way I read it, you can choose to ignore the PVP attack, but doesn't mean you are safe. If they are willing to flag as a Murderer they can proceed to kill you, and getting a bounty on their head.

    This summary is full of contradictions....

    "There is an option to completely ignore your aggressor. Once you select this, you will no longer see them on your map." Sounds great, totally safe right? Perhaps not.

    "You can actually kill a person by continuing to attack them and have them do nothing to stop you, more on that later."

    Wait, wut, how can they continue to kill me, I'm invisible.

    "You can try to kill someone in the game with peppered shots as they try to get away or choose not to shoot back. If they don’t ignore you, and you can successfully bring them down"

    OK, if someone is able to ignore you, why wouldn't they? Makes no sense to say they may try to get away, or choose to not shoot back, why bother, just ignore. My guess is there are situations when you can't ignore someone not being mentioned.

    "The bounty comes out of the murderer’s money....You will have bounty hunters and murderers and they war will rage on for years. Most players will have two characters, one for each."

    Is this the author's first rodeo? Of course they will have one of each, on separate accounts, and will use the hunter alt (or use a friend) to collect the bounty on their own account, clearing the murderer status in the process.

    Finally this is the most accurate statement in the OP

    "This is an immensely important part of the game because Fallout in all of its glory had never really gone multi-player, let alone host PvP."

    It's pretty clear Bethesda has no idea what they are doing when it comes to delivering a PVP game, or....

    there is a lot being unsaid still.

    PhryConstantineMerusMendelVinterkrig

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

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  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 586
    The problem bringing up MMORPGs of the past in these arguments is that well the player base has changed realistically in that time period and the type of people that do this shit now and the type that play "rogues" (division) in general tend to be toxic individuals that will keep on doing it.

    We used to have guilds specifically to hunt down PKs in Ultima, but where are those guilds in the modern MMORPG scape in open world PVP games? I've not seen them in general for many many many years. I mean hell they've been largely gone since before Lineage 2 launched...
    KyleranDemogorgonPhryMendel
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,137
    edited August 2018
    The problem bringing up MMORPGs of the past in these arguments is that well the player base has changed realistically in that time period and the type of people that do this shit now and the type that play "rogues" (division) in general tend to be toxic individuals that will keep on doing it.

    We used to have guilds specifically to hunt down PKs in Ultima, but where are those guilds in the modern MMORPG scape in open world PVP games? I've not seen them in general for many many many years. I mean hell they've been largely gone since before Lineage 2 launched...
    You have to give players good reason to become pk hunters, or they just won't do it.

    Bounties really won't work. Murders won't keep any cash on their killer character  or account, and if they have to, they'll be sure to harvest it from themselves.

    Gankers on the other hand do it mostly for the lulz and tears. (even if at a loss financially)


    PhrySolancerTacticalZombeh

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 586

    Torval said:

    This will make bounties harder because PK'ers will have to fight more players who actually fight back. It will make easy bounties rarer.

    Also it will shift the PK griefing in a different direction. PvP players aren't stupid despite what some seem to think. They will wait for "pve" players to battle tough monsters and bosses and hit those players when they're really low on health. Groups will get together to gang up and focus fire on the lowest health players.

    All the greatest visions of "this is how it will happen" are going to be wiped away when real people get in and start doing real people things.

    Personally I don't think this system is clever at all. Just have people flag and to switch the flag they must log out of the server to the main screen and then make change their choice. That way they can't flip flop right in the middle. You would only see players and be on the same servers with players that have the same flag.



    Please stop calling Pkers PVPers as they are not. They are griefers that purposely attempt to kill people that can't or won't fight back.

    We need to bring back proper PVP flagging systems from like SWG and just be done with this BS once and for all. Those that want to PVP can walk around flagged and be attacked by other people that want to PVP and those that don't can co-exist with them. It isn't a new concept to have them pushed into the same ecosystem in a game. Developers have just gotten so lazy in recent years that they don't want to use their heads. Even devs making so called SWG inspired games don't seem to grasp that basic concept that not everyone wants to PVP in a sandbox heavy game.

    Proper PVP flagging allows both sides to live in harmony and doesn't allow for PK'ers to even flourish/exist. Frankly it is why the system was invented in the first place. I've been around MMORPGs basically since the start and this whole idea of "emergent gameplay" and other BS buzzwords is just lazy development teams that don't want to put the work in to make a proper sandbox experience that allows both pvp'ers and pve'ers to co-exist and relies on a system of heavy interopability and the like. We've gotten to a point now that the developers need to realize that players don't want open world PVP and want a flagging system properly.

    90% of the time open world PVP just leads to gank box. Todd Howard (even though he's originally from my area and an alumni of my high school) has clearly never really played an open world PVP game particularly at any point in the last 15 years.
    DemogorgonskadadPhrySolancerTacticalZombehPesky
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,137
    kelphead said:
    I'm pretty sure you can only ignore after being killed, they can continue to do small damage until you die.
    That makes some sense, you won't be able to stop from being killed,  just prevent repeat killings.....well, at least until the next Murderer rolls on up to take a shot. 

    ;)
    Solancer

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    edited August 2018
    Kyleran said:
    kelphead said:
    I'm pretty sure you can only ignore after being killed, they can continue to do small damage until you die.
    That makes some sense, you won't be able to stop from being killed,  just prevent repeat killings.....well, at least until the next Murderer rolls on up to take a shot. 

    ;)
    What are people whining about then? You should take the ganking and thank them for it. 

    Since it can only happen 1 time per player (after that you're invis) it shouldn't be much of a problem. Let's see. Fallout 4 sold 12 million copies in the first 24 hours. Say that this game only sells half that. I only have to be killed and looted 6 MILLION times before I can play the new Fallout game in some semblance of peace and all for the low low price of $80 plus GaaS fees. Thank you! May I have another? :lol:
    [Deleted User]KyleranskadadPhry
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    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • wildarms2wildarms2 Member UncommonPosts: 80
    they missed out passive mode : you can turn this on and you shots will not hit the player that trying to jump into your damage to get put into pvp

    moo all

  • wandericawanderica Member UncommonPosts: 366
    I applaud the new ideas they're trying with FO76, but I really get the feeling they're trying to reinvent the "PVP wheel" here. Most of the time, simple is better. Three very easy solutions are immediately obvious to everyone but the developers, it seems. Either have PvE and PvP servers, a flagging system, or allow people to host their own (co-op). I won't bother with the game if it stays like this. It seems needlessly complicated to effectively achieve the same outcome (PvP or PvE).
    SensaiTorvalAgent_Joseph


  • RateroRatero Member UncommonPosts: 435
    I think most PvE'ers will just set themselves to "Passive" and be done with it. Personally, I want nothing to do with PvP in any way, shape or form. I don't mind PvP'ers being flagged as such on the same map as I am on as long as they can only bother other people flagged as PvP.
    Pesky

  • skadadskadad Member UncommonPosts: 392
    Ratero said:
    I think most PvE'ers will just set themselves to "Passive" and be done with it. Personally, I want nothing to do with PvP in any way, shape or form. I don't mind PvP'ers being flagged as such on the same map as I am on as long as they can only bother other people flagged as PvP.
    You can still get killed by gankers though, you just do not hit back :D 
  • Br1mston3Br1mston3 Member UncommonPosts: 7
    edited August 2018
    When did gamers become such a bunch of sissies?
    Me and my crew will be waiting to kill you and take your stuff. PK/PvP - call it whatever you like.
    Kyleran
  • skadadskadad Member UncommonPosts: 392
    Br1mston3 said:
    When did gamers become such a bunch of sissies?
    Me and my crew will be waiting to kill you and take your stuff. PK/PvP - call it whatever you like.
    It is exactly groups like yours that make these kind of games fail in the long run. Cannibalizing themselves :P 
    KyleranTorvalTacticalZombeh
  • krulerkruler Member UncommonPosts: 589
    I actually have a bit of a problem with the proposed system in that it breaks the games overall immersion as it makes no sense in its setting.


    You are a survivor, you have faced many dangers then comes along "XX-mightydic-XX and starts taking pot shots at you with a pipe pistol, so you either engage and fall for the "He has a rubbish weapon" thing or ignore him, allowing him to chase you and take potshots to either annoy you or kill you with boredom.

    So even if you don't want to PvP its still going to be annoying as hell or immersion breaking, why in hell didn't they do a flagged server, or, you know what I have so many "Or's" I am not going to list as they have been many times already by others.


    I guess I am going to have to wait till it comes out, as to be honest not totally trusting the information coming out or a certain company mans mouth, he has form for sheer bedazzling BS and icing over glaring issues that modders identify and start trying to fix launch plus 1 hour.


    If I am also honest im waiting for the other shoe to drop with this version of Fallout, I'm waiting to see the other money making aspects for this they have planned, they got busted and derided so much with their previous attempts, I am not entirely convince they have not come up with a game that suits their cash shop planes, opposed to making a game with a cash shop.
    PhryKyleranTorvalSolancer

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,096
    All these pitfalls many have pointed out does not bode well. Let's see how well this does. Personally I dislike games that encourage others to continuously annoy you... outright murder would be better. Wish them all the best  :*
    Kyleran
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,993
    I have always held out the hope that a system could be made that would allow PvP and PvE in the same "zones" (seems to me they will just have one). Maybe this will work, but I have reservations as various tagging systems have been tried before.

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