Are MMO with subcriptions too cheap? Games too cheap in general?

TheScavenger

As a note before the actual post, the amount here is all in USD. Also the numbers are examples, but what I "feel" they should be priced due to how expensive it is to make good quality games these days compared to the past. But in any case, games are still far too cheap

In general, games are too cheap...60 dollars isn't very much in todays world. Games should cost over 150 dollars for a brand new game, in how expensive everything else is. Development in todays world is far more expensive than it used to be.

But, MMOs also seem to have by far too cheap subscriptions. For a while, they cost 10 dollars...but then it only went up five dollars to 15. For an MMO to prosper, and also maybe even rely on cash shops less...they really should cost anywhere from 30 (double the price) to even 60 dollars a month of current priced games.

Expansions for example, like BFA are 50 dollars. But the amount should be more 90-140 dollars for how much work has gone into it.

I think companies are afraid of increasing the price to the appropriate amount of how much things cost cause they think people will scoff at the price. But, they really need to not just slightly increase the price...but dramatically increase the price to match todays economy and how expensive it is to develop games.

TheScavenger

As for less people being able to buy games. 

Well for one...games development costs in not just programming but artwork and everything else...has gone way up like I said.

But, games and other entertainment avenues are a luxury. If can't afford that luxury, then can't do that entertainment. For example, going to a sports stadium, the tickets often cost a lot (depending whats going on they can be insane priced)...many people can't afford to buy those tickets. Games aren't a "need" but a "hobby" or "luxury".

So it doesn't matter if someone can't afford it or not, since it isn't an actual need. 

Many hobbies are very expensive, and the game hobby is actually one of if not the cheapest one. But, this is in fact harming developers and likely causing bad practice of cash shops and what not. And even if cash shops were still a thing, at least gaming would catch up in price to how much it actually should be in terms of how expensive they are to develop.

TheScavenger

Robokapp said:

TheScavenger said:

Expansions for example, like BFA are 50 dollars. But the amount should be more 90-140 dollars for how much work has gone into it.

please show us the math that produced this number.

they were just examples, but what I feel they should be priced at since development is far more expensive than it used to be. I'll edit the post to clarify that.

But in any case, games are still far too cheap

LackingMMO

TheScavenger said:

Robokapp said:

TheScavenger said:

Expansions for example, like BFA are 50 dollars. But the amount should be more 90-140 dollars for how much work has gone into it.

please show us the math that produced this number.

they were just examples, but what I feel they should be priced at since development is far more expensive than it used to be. I'll edit the post to clarify that.

But in any case, games are still far too cheap

Cant really say something is cheap with no facts to back it up. Something could be $5 and be overpriced for what your getting. Companies are making money on these games and finding new ways to increase profit margin even more with dlc/cash shops and whatever else. Prices right now are just fine, in fact for some of the content we have been getting its probably too much in some cases.

TheScavenger

I guess there was already a thread about pricing. Didn't even see it and then it popped up on recent discussions

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/475462/game-prices-argument/p1

blamo2000

TheScavenger said:

Robokapp said:

TheScavenger said:

Expansions for example, like BFA are 50 dollars. But the amount should be more 90-140 dollars for how much work has gone into it.

please show us the math that produced this number.

they were just examples, but what I feel they should be priced at since development is far more expensive than it used to be. I'll edit the post to clarify that.

But in any case, games are still far too cheap

There are two sides to the equation - supply and demand.  Are there more people buying these games now?  Its simple economics.

But, I agree with you.  As you say it costs more to create "good, quality games" but those "good, quality games" have shifted the quality part from gameplay to superficial nonsense.  The graphics, animations, voice acting, etc, may have improved - but at a significant cost to broaden the market appeal of the game, mechanics, systems, etc, to literally include very small children with simple children minds into the demographics.  

There is no way I'd pay $60 for something that barely qualifies as a game.  The handful of AAA games I plan on checking out I wait for the final edition with all dlc included to go on sale for $10-15 (I still don't own Fallout 4 since it hasn't yet fell to a price on sale I feel the "game" is worth).  Plus, there are usually a couple of total conversion mods available at that time to make the game playable to people that focus more on the systems and mechanics over the superficial nonsense.

So, people like me aren't going to buy your games regardless of initial price.  I personally would welcome the selling price being jacked up to $140 or higher.  

The games I play and buy at full price on release will not be impacted.  But the games I am drawn towards tend to have the opposite budgeting as your type of slightly interactive art.  My games spend 90+% of their budget on the game part of the game, instead of spending 90+% of the budget on the non-game, superficial parts.  And my games don't include children in the target market.


Although I don't think your $140 price tag is that far off from what you people actually spend on the AAA games currently with how they and their content are monetized, jacking the price up significantly higher as you propose would only be good for me, the games I like, and my gaming agenda.  I encourage and welcome it.  

AlBQuirky

TheScavenger said:

Robokapp said:

TheScavenger said:

Expansions for example, like BFA are 50 dollars. But the amount should be more 90-140 dollars for how much work has gone into it.

please show us the math that produced this number.

they were just examples, but what I feel they should be priced at since development is far more expensive than it used to be. I'll edit the post to clarify that.

But in any case, games are still far too cheap

I understand where you're coming from, but I wonder about the "cost increase" aspect. I know the cost is more now than years ago, but I have never seen any actual data saying "THIS is how much more it takes to make a game than 10+ years ago." It's an impossible comparison with too many variables to factor in, like how many developers needed or "free game engines (Unreal 4)?" I also wonder how much the marketing part of the game's budget has increased by comparison.

The other aspect is what others have said. Do you make more selling 3,000,000 copies at $60 or 300,000 copies $120? Sure, there are luxury industries that do very well selling a fewer products at very high prices. The way the industry is now, they look to include players (and their money), not exclude them and their wallets.

PS: Don't tell gamers they're not entitled to play games. You'll get crucified

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mmolou

Please show evidence to back up the claim that it is more expensive to make good quality games today than it was in the past (also, clarify what you mean by the term "the past", and who is to decide what is a good quality game, and how are they going to do so?).

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Luiden

I would pay more money for a MMORPG that had a monthly fee with no cash shop.  I would probably pay quite a bit more for a game where I know players have earned everything they have and didn't buy it because mommy and daddy are loaded.

Cryomatrix

What one person thinks is expensive is different from another.

Recently i payed 30 bucks for a round of golf. Id only pay 30 bucks for a video game if it is from a AAA company and is half off perhaps.

Either way, i think games should be more expensive however i am conditioned to think that games at 60 bucks are at the peak of expensiveness and i would be very wary to spend that much.

rodingo

Here is my take.  One of the major "rules" of software development is to have assets that are reusable.  In game development those assets would include scripts(code) and prefabs such as game world props like walls, buildings, grass, barrels, characters, etc.  Not to mention all of the thousands of textures that you will see in several places throughout the game world. 

So when an expac is created, it's not likely they are reinventing the wheel every time so to speak.  Sure mechanics get changed, added, removed and tweaked as well as some new models and animations but not to the extent to where they are making a completely new game.  At least that's what I assume since that is what is efficient and Blizzard definitely strikes me (and has proven to me) as a studio who has their shyt together and is highly efficient.   

I'm not saying that making a DLC or expac costs them nothing, and of course to host and upkeep all of their servers isn't cheap either.  However, my opinion is that they charge what they do because they simply can and that a bulk of that revenue is going towards putting on big shows like Blizzcon, advertising, and future development of projects we have yet to hear about and not so much to strictly pay for WoW development.  

Ungood

mmolou said:

Please show evidence to back up the claim that it is more expensive to make good quality games today than it was in the past (also, clarify what you mean by the term "the past", and who is to decide what is a good quality game, and how are they going to do so?).

Unless we have managed to be able to pump out a 'good quality game" in less hours by people who are willing to work for less.. it's going to cost more.

Alverant

Given the existence of things like Unity and other game-making engines, better 3D model makers, etc it's cheaper to make games than before. So, when accounting for inflation, I think it still evens out to $60. I admit I have no numbers to back it up, but then neither do the people insisting that games should cost more. And when you throw in season passes, microtransactions, DLC, and other post-purchase sales the AAA publishers are already making lots of money. The problem is they think they're entitled to all the money and will do whatever they can get away with to get all the money.

Not all games cost the same amount to make. Some should be priced at $60 and some should be less. I got a new game a few months ago as part of a Kickstarter reward that retailed at $35 and I'm having a great time. It doesn't have a super graphics engine but that's not very important to me. And that's the kicker, not all games need to have super graphics and yet it's super graphics that keeps pushing the cost of making games higher and higher. Publishers are creating a demand and suckers are falling for it and the rest of us have to deal with the "ohh games should cost more" crowd who just doesn't get it.

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Celcius

TheScavenger said:

Robokapp said:

TheScavenger said:

Expansions for example, like BFA are 50 dollars. But the amount should be more 90-140 dollars for how much work has gone into it.

please show us the math that produced this number.

they were just examples, but what I feel they should be priced at since development is far more expensive than it used to be. I'll edit the post to clarify that.

But in any case, games are still far too cheap

No, actually game development is cheaper then ever. Hence, you know, games like Stardew Valley being made by one guy.  Tripple A dev is more expensive, but Tripple A makes up a very small part of the industry at this point. The main reason for it's cost increase is marketing as well.

Also, gaming revenue is higher then HOLLYWOOD MOVIES. So yeah, I think they are doing okay

Also, unlike you, I have a source: https://www.nasdaq.com/article/investing-in-video-games-this-industry-pulls-in-more-revenue-than-movies-music-cm634585

/thread

Shaigh

AA developers are starting to have bit of a problem with the cost of making games. Five years ago they could still make their games for $10M but with the popularity of crowdfunded projects and increased expectations from players they are starting to push past those numbers.

Before there was a significant price differential compared to AAA games but this trend is making them push closer and closer to a $60 price tag.

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postlarval

Luiden said:

I would pay more money for a MMORPG that had a monthly fee with no cash shop.

^^ This this this this this

Caffynated

Games are digital products that cost basically nothing to produce after the first copy. It's much more profitable to sell such a product to as wide an audience as possible than to sell it as a premium product at 3x the price to far fewer players.

$50 for a game used to be a lot of money, and gaming was a niche market. $60 for a game is now pretty affordable and there are 700 million PC gamers to sell them to. Companies even cut the price lower to sell in poorer countries just to get more box sales. Why? Because $30 for a few pennies worth of bandwidth is a nice profit.

If they raised the price to $150 for a typical new release, PC gaming would be niche again, and they would likely end up losing money. At that price point people are going to buy fewer games and make fewer impulse buys. They're certainly not going to be like most of us with a 100+ unplayed games in our Steam backlog.

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Geeky

Fortnite is free to play and it's made more money in 1 year than almost every mmo ever made.  (Obviously not a couple of them)

Geeky

Sorry but needed to add this.  It also sells NOTHING that adds to anyone Play to Win ability.  Everything EVERYTHING it sells is cosmetic.  But it also knows the market to which it is selling and does a marvelous job of that.

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Geeky

blueturtle13 said:

Geeky said:

Fortnite is free to play and it's made more money in 1 year than almost every mmo ever made.  (Obviously not a couple of them)

Epic still spent millions creating Fortnite before it even became a battle royale game. They also use their own game engine. 

So?   Whats the title of this thread?  Oh, right, are games with subscriptions too cheap.  No, or maybe yes.  It's a moot point.  Fortnite is currently the most successful game out there and it's model is FTP with zero P2W options. 

What market are you going for in your MMO?  Old men with time and money?  Ok, $100 to buy, $25 dollars a month.  Going for tweens who pwnd jer mom?  Ok, make it FTP.  In between, then go in between.