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MMO-Lite The Matrix

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  • ShelvinarrShelvinarr Member UncommonPosts: 54
    @OP,

    While I thoroughly enjoyed your well-written post, I must disagree. MMO is an acronym for Massively Multiplayer Online afaik. However, some of the games you mentioned would not qualify for that category of game. While having a large player count of, let's say one hundred, that by definition is not massively multiplayer. I will concede to label them multiplayer online games, as they are through and through. But, I think the industry has become lazy, instead of coming up with a snazzy new category or phrase to call their new trash survival/lobby shooter/instanced lootbox slot machine, they've just started advertising it under the false pre-tense of being an MMO because the label is already established, it already had a large following. This is disconcerting for those of us searching for a legitimate MMO to call home, because while marketed as an MMO, we find ourselves in yet another of the aforementioned garbage game types. (I forgot the latest fad of battle royale, as that seems to be the next great fad after the survival craze has died down some.)

    Is it bad/wrong that these companies are misrepresenting their titles as being MMOs? That's a loaded question, but for the sake of opinions, I will say that in my opinion it is wrong ethically to misrepresent your product to the consumer base. If I wanted to buy a new vacuum cleaner, and I went to the store and saw fancy buzz words like, "World class vacuum, number one seller." etc etc but when I bought it, took it home and tried to clean my floors with it, I find out it's not actually a vacuum, but a sump pump, I'd be pretty ticked off that I was tricked into buying a product that was misrepresented. This may seem like semantics, maybe even down right petty, but who has the power to change this? Us, the consumers, by not buying these sh*t titles, by saying, "We don't want to continue your corporate greed by buying lootboxes." Shut them up with your wallet.

    I digress. Back to my original thought, companies need to stop labeling their crap products as MMO's and come up with a new category that is generalized enough to be an umbrella category, like "Online Multiplayer Game".

    ScorchienPo_ggElquinklash2defGdemami
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,715
    [...] Back to my original thought, companies need to stop labeling their crap products as MMO's and come up with a new category that is generalized enough to be an umbrella category, like "Online Multiplayer Game".
    The funny thing is, most companies recently avoid the label actually, and it's only on the shoulders of self-appointed fanbois players...

    Just look at OP's favourite for example, or at least I guess that is his favourite based on silly lines like
    klash2def said:

    .. sounds exactly like Destiny. I love that word, its just rolls off the finger tips. -DESTINY-
    The devs hanging from the bungie cord never said it is an MMO, on the contrary they said it is NOT and they don't like the term. (they were more in the camp of the newly invented term of "shared world" shooter)

    So, we have on one side the people who made the game and saying it is not an MMO, and on the other side RandomNamelessPlayer#2453 who makes threads about it IS an MMO.
    Oh, geez, whom should I believe, what a tough decision.... (not really).
    ScorchienElquin
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,933
    Po_gg said:
    [...] Back to my original thought, companies need to stop labeling their crap products as MMO's and come up with a new category that is generalized enough to be an umbrella category, like "Online Multiplayer Game".
    The funny thing is, most companies recently avoid the label actually, and it's only on the shoulders of self-appointed fanbois players...

    Just look at OP's favourite for example, or at least I guess that is his favourite based on silly lines like
    klash2def said:

    .. sounds exactly like Destiny. I love that word, its just rolls off the finger tips. -DESTINY-
    The devs hanging from the bungie cord never said it is an MMO, on the contrary they said it is NOT and they don't like the term. (they were more in the camp of the newly invented term of "shared world" shooter)

    So, we have on one side the people who made the game and saying it is not an MMO, and on the other side RandomNamelessPlayer#2453 who makes threads about it IS an MMO.
    Oh, geez, whom should I believe, what a tough decision.... (not really).
    Destiny plays like a MMO though... with less people. Kind of reason Bungie went through the trouble of saying not a MMO.

    I think and many other think it is valid to call these games MMO lite. You are just as rabid about it not being a MMO lite.  There is no authority over what is what is.  
    Elquinklash2def
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,913
    Sigh...one last time, will attempt to eliminate the noise

    MMO - Massively Multiplayer Online - normally used to describe some sort of video game.

    There is absolutely no other feature associated with this term and only one debateable qualifier, how large is massively? 

    For convenience I hold to the traditional examples of the past, as was commonly accepted when the term was first incorporated, so 500 is good number. 

    Of course, 495 is OK, heck, 400, 300, 200 all probably could have a case made for them.

    100....not so much. Why? 128 player games have existed for a very long time,  and they were never called MMOs. They were either just multiplayer or online multiplayer.

    So I'll continue to resist the growing tide of willful ignorance even if it labels me as a bittervet, fine it's just what I do.

    I decided to copy this for future use, OP isn't the first, won't be the last.

    Cheers 





    ScorchienmmolouElquinklash2defMrMelGibsonGdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,871
                        There is alot of Irony in this one ..

               "Destiny plays like a MMO though... with less people."
                          

    mmolouElquin
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,933
    Scorchien said:
                        There is alot of Irony in this one ..

               "Destiny plays like a MMO though... with less people."
                          

    Yes there is.  But you are missing the point that Destiny emulates an MMOFPS whether it wants to or not.  You have 10s of thousands of players seamlessly matched off single server.  It is like having a lite drink that has artificial sweeteners.  

    I am sure if there is a required number of players you could go back and reclassify some early MMORPG as Dwarf MMORPG. Regardless we know what the spirit of the genre was to have players log into game world and do things together.

    When players made Minecraft or Neverwinter Nights MMORPG people weren't saying oh noes it doesn't have enough concurrent players.  

    klash2def
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,871
    Scorchien said:
                        There is alot of Irony in this one ..

               "Destiny plays like a MMO though... with less people."
                          

    Yes there is.  But you are missing the point that Destiny emulates an MMOFPS whether it wants to or not.  You have 10s of thousands of players seamlessly matched off single server.  It is like having a lite drink that has artificial sweeteners.  

    I am sure if there is a required number of players you could go back and reclassify some early MMORPG as Dwarf MMORPG. Regardless we know what the spirit of the genre was to have players log into game world and do things together.

    When players made Minecraft or Neverwinter Nights MMORPG people weren't saying oh noes it doesn't have enough concurrent players.  

    Im not missing anything at all , its a multi-player coop FPS and there is nothing wrong with that
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,933
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
                        There is alot of Irony in this one ..

               "Destiny plays like a MMO though... with less people."
                          

    Yes there is.  But you are missing the point that Destiny emulates an MMOFPS whether it wants to or not.  You have 10s of thousands of players seamlessly matched off single server.  It is like having a lite drink that has artificial sweeteners.  

    I am sure if there is a required number of players you could go back and reclassify some early MMORPG as Dwarf MMORPG. Regardless we know what the spirit of the genre was to have players log into game world and do things together.

    When players made Minecraft or Neverwinter Nights MMORPG people weren't saying oh noes it doesn't have enough concurrent players.  

    Im not missing anything at all , its a multi-player coop FPS and there is nothing wrong with that
    Are you being contrary just because?  I accept game labels based on expectations of what the player experience will be like.  This is why I don't call MOBA an MMO because it doesn't play like one. 

    Multiplayer coop FPS makes me think Borderlands series. That is a decidedly different experience then an seem less always online FPS with dynamic events and raids a decidedly MMO like experience.  If you can't be honest about that I am not sure what to discuss.
    klash2def
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,871
    All the arguements for and against are here , weve been thru this to nauseum ..

       As far as this community is concerned the majority thinks it is not , many good discussions and reasoning in this thread on both sides .. I dont see it as one My reasons are there..




  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,529
    That's like comparing apples and oranges are both fruit. Can you see where this is going? Hence the well known phrase, "It's apples and oranges" used to define that despite similarities, they are not the same thing. Stop trying to redefine the MMO genre and just create a new one, like MOBA, FPS, ARPG / CRPG and so on.
    ScorchienGdemami

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,103
    Micro multiplayer online
    MrMelGibson
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,103
    Make a new one. UMO unimpressively multiplayer online
    Scorchien
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,933
    Rhoklaw said:
    That's like comparing apples and oranges are both fruit. Can you see where this is going? Hence the well known phrase, "It's apples and oranges" used to define that despite similarities, they are not the same thing. Stop trying to redefine the MMO genre and just create a new one, like MOBA, FPS, ARPG / CRPG and so on.
    MMO lite is a new genre.
    klash2def
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,103
    Rhoklaw said:
    That's like comparing apples and oranges are both fruit. Can you see where this is going? Hence the well known phrase, "It's apples and oranges" used to define that despite similarities, they are not the same thing. Stop trying to redefine the MMO genre and just create a new one, like MOBA, FPS, ARPG / CRPG and so on.
    MMO lite is a new genre.
    No. It's absolutely nothing at all. Go away.
  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 3,837
    Rhoklaw said:
    That's like comparing apples and oranges are both fruit. Can you see where this is going? Hence the well known phrase, "It's apples and oranges" used to define that despite similarities, they are not the same thing. Stop trying to redefine the MMO genre and just create a new one, like MOBA, FPS, ARPG / CRPG and so on.
    MMO lite is a new genre.


  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,933
    edited October 2018
    Rhoklaw said:
    That's like comparing apples and oranges are both fruit. Can you see where this is going? Hence the well known phrase, "It's apples and oranges" used to define that despite similarities, they are not the same thing. Stop trying to redefine the MMO genre and just create a new one, like MOBA, FPS, ARPG / CRPG and so on.
    MMO lite is a new genre.
    No. It's absolutely nothing at all. Go away.
    Sorry I killied your grass.  I will get off it lol.  MMO lite has been a term for a long time now.  
    klash2def
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,103
    Rhoklaw said:
    That's like comparing apples and oranges are both fruit. Can you see where this is going? Hence the well known phrase, "It's apples and oranges" used to define that despite similarities, they are not the same thing. Stop trying to redefine the MMO genre and just create a new one, like MOBA, FPS, ARPG / CRPG and so on.
    MMO lite is a new genre.
    No. It's absolutely nothing at all. Go away.
    Sorry I killied your grass.  I will get off it lol.  MMO lite has been a term for a long time now.  
    It really hasn't. It's not anything and trying to make it something is failing.  
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    Rhoklaw said:
    That's like comparing apples and oranges are both fruit. Can you see where this is going? Hence the well known phrase, "It's apples and oranges" used to define that despite similarities, they are not the same thing. Stop trying to redefine the MMO genre and just create a new one, like MOBA, FPS, ARPG / CRPG and so on.
    MMO lite is a new genre.
    No. It's absolutely nothing at all. Go away.
    Go away? why? You have a emulator raid or something to go to?  Nah, You go away. We are fine here thank you sir.

    Its amazing for as much as people in this site bitch about innovation in the genre, when its staring you in the face you cant see it and fight against it because its using a part of a term.

    I never said MMORPG, I said MMO-Lite. That's what these games are. You are arguing what? What are you mad about? 

    You say make a new Genre. There is a new genre. MMO-Lite. What more do you want? 


    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    Why the hell are you people attacking us with semantics when we are literally doing what you asked? 

    "dOnT cALL tHeSe gAmEs MmORpGeeees!"

    Okay little forum Jimmy, I wont. I didnt.

    "dOnT sAy MmOs!"


     Read Jimmy. I said they are MMO-Lites. 

    At the end of the day, I don't need you to agree with me, I was only pointing out something I'm noticing. I posed a question, then gave you MY personal answer. Its my opinion. You are upset because my opinion is coming across as fact, and that's only because there is truth in what I'm saying. 

    Take off your rose colored googles and look at the changes the world made while you were away in your emulator. 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member RarePosts: 1,103
    It's not a genre and it has no meaning. So childish. Just stop.

    MMO lite lmao. 

    I think people just like to troll really hard and start terrible threads. Need a real topic.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,933
    edited October 2018
    Rhoklaw said:
    That's like comparing apples and oranges are both fruit. Can you see where this is going? Hence the well known phrase, "It's apples and oranges" used to define that despite similarities, they are not the same thing. Stop trying to redefine the MMO genre and just create a new one, like MOBA, FPS, ARPG / CRPG and so on.
    MMO lite is a new genre.
    No. It's absolutely nothing at all. Go away.
    Sorry I killied your grass.  I will get off it lol.  MMO lite has been a term for a long time now.  
    It really hasn't. It's not anything and trying to make it something is failing.  
    The term search backs to 2006. That's about half the age of this genre being mainstream and MMORPG term being coined.  It is now being applied to online that emulate MMORPG but aren't. 

    Amazing how people get pissed when you misuse MMORPG and then when you use a different term they still get pissed. You're just not happy huh?
    klash2def
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    edited October 2018
    @OP,

    While I thoroughly enjoyed your well-written post, I must disagree. MMO is an acronym for Massively Multiplayer Online afaik. However, some of the games you mentioned would not qualify for that category of game. While having a large player count of, let's say one hundred, that by definition is not massively multiplayer. I will concede to label them multiplayer online games, as they are through and through. But, I think the industry has become lazy, instead of coming up with a snazzy new category or phrase to call their new trash survival/lobby shooter/instanced lootbox slot machine, they've just started advertising it under the false pre-tense of being an MMO because the label is already established, it already had a large following. This is disconcerting for those of us searching for a legitimate MMO to call home, because while marketed as an MMO, we find ourselves in yet another of the aforementioned garbage game types. (I forgot the latest fad of battle royale, as that seems to be the next great fad after the survival craze has died down some.)

    Is it bad/wrong that these companies are misrepresenting their titles as being MMOs? That's a loaded question, but for the sake of opinions, I will say that in my opinion it is wrong ethically to misrepresent your product to the consumer base. If I wanted to buy a new vacuum cleaner, and I went to the store and saw fancy buzz words like, "World class vacuum, number one seller." etc etc but when I bought it, took it home and tried to clean my floors with it, I find out it's not actually a vacuum, but a sump pump, I'd be pretty ticked off that I was tricked into buying a product that was misrepresented. This may seem like semantics, maybe even down right petty, but who has the power to change this? Us, the consumers, by not buying these sh*t titles, by saying, "We don't want to continue your corporate greed by buying lootboxes." Shut them up with your wallet.

    I digress. Back to my original thought, companies need to stop labeling their crap products as MMO's and come up with a new category that is generalized enough to be an umbrella category, like "Online Multiplayer Game".

    I appreciate this post. I understand all of this. I even agree that games shouldn't misrepresent but This isn't really what I was talking about. 

    I know Activision isn't calling Destiny a MMORPG. They dont have to call it that. We know they would call it that if MMO's were still profitable trust me.. but that's another topic.  They can say shared world shooter, Online Multiplayer Shooter they can say whatever they need for marketing reasons. My point is these games at the heart are doing MMO things. The only difference between them and traditional MMOs is that they don't have as many people per shard.

    Literally everything else is the exact same. That's where the MMO-lite came from. Its undeniable that these games are MMO at the core. Its silly to dispute that. old People don't want to call em MMOs because they are still holding on to the y2k version of what MMO meant.

    MMO yes it does mean Massively Multiplayer Online, But in 2018 it also describes a type of game.

    So its a term that has more than one meaning based on new information presented to us. There are many words or Terms that have several meanings in our language, this isnt the first time and its not the end of the world. I appreciate your pov, but if you are alluding to Destiny, Warframe, or Division being crap products then I would have to disagree along with Millions of other people. 

     I just don't understand why so many "gamervet" types get offended when someone brings up these type of games being a part of the MMO family.  
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    Scorchien said:
    Scorchien said:
                        There is alot of Irony in this one ..

               "Destiny plays like a MMO though... with less people."
                          

    Yes there is.  But you are missing the point that Destiny emulates an MMOFPS whether it wants to or not.  You have 10s of thousands of players seamlessly matched off single server.  It is like having a lite drink that has artificial sweeteners.  

    I am sure if there is a required number of players you could go back and reclassify some early MMORPG as Dwarf MMORPG. Regardless we know what the spirit of the genre was to have players log into game world and do things together.

    When players made Minecraft or Neverwinter Nights MMORPG people weren't saying oh noes it doesn't have enough concurrent players.  

    Im not missing anything at all , its a multi-player coop FPS and there is nothing wrong with that
    Are you being contrary just because?  I accept game labels based on expectations of what the player experience will be like.  This is why I don't call MOBA an MMO because it doesn't play like one. 

    Multiplayer coop FPS makes me think Borderlands series. That is a decidedly different experience then an seem less always online FPS with dynamic events and raids a decidedly MMO like experience.  If you can't be honest about that I am not sure what to discuss.
    this. They always try to act like we dont understand the difference between MMO, Co-Op, and Lobby Multiplayer. its laughable. 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,542
    edited October 2018
    How can you deny the MMO parts of games like Destiny, Division, Warframe? 

    I'm waiting for one of you old dudes to explain to me why these games are not MMO?

    Don't say anything about number of players. Number of players isn't the only thing that makes a MMO game experience. Stop that outdated shit. You look silly. Update your POV with new information then explain. Do not ignore the most important part which is these games do the same thing experience and gameplay wise. 

    In both MMORPGs(Traditional) and MMO-Lites(Non-traditional)  you play with your friends in a persistent online world in both PVE or PVP. That's the bottom line. Its crazy to deny these two TYPES of games are not from the same family. Its plain ignorance and old bitter vet syndrome at best. 

    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 1,849
    Kyleran said:


    For convenience I hold to the traditional examples of the past, as was commonly accepted when the term was first incorporated, so 500 is good number. 







    I remember the good old days, when mmorpg.com required a game to be able to host a minimum of 500 players in a persistent world before they'd list the game here.
    Gdemami


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

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