I'm taking inspiration for this discussion from several posts scattered around recent threads.
Although the idea of interacting with hundreds of players at the same time would be the core experience of an MMO, I feel it's usually implemented poorly. "lag" and "zerg" are the 2 words I see people associating with big numbers of players on the screen in both PvE and PvE.
An higher amount of player is still required if you have to take into account different playstyles, vertical progression, different time frames for game sessions etc. They might also be necessary for heavy sandbox games with player driven economy, constructions, politics etc.
I would like to ask you this:
If you had a game that's not a "pure sandbox", reduced vertical progression, most of the content available for new and veteran players (both casual and hardcore) with limited dispersion, would you be satisfied with having just few hundreds players (no more than a couple dozens doing fighting in the screen at the same) that play during the same hours as you and won't get bothered of the game before you do?
Economical aspect aside, ofc.
Currently on: Guild Wars 2
Comments
Most of big events in GW2 are a bit zergish.
I think the key is having great numbers of players INFLUENCING each other, but not being more than 30 "on the screen". You can give different subgoals and tasks inside a particular activity to better spread the players.
For the second part: I do enjoy the open, massive with megaserver approach (like Gw2) and I wouldn't alter it much, especially because a couple of considerations made in my hypothesis are irrealistic (everybody playing at the same time and never quitting or being always replaced when they do).
But I suppose that, in a game with those conditions met and a different design, I could play with muchlless online players compared to what I'm used too and not feel the difference
There are many technical issues with Massive, but in the end they are all driven by one thing, the need to keep up with the graphics of solo games. While MMOs are a slave to that, we will not see worlds inhabited by 100000 players.
But as a graphics fan myself would I put up with a huge disparity between what a MMO was doing and the state of current gaming? No, but it makes me give them leeway, I don't expect every new MMO that comes out to look like BDO.
The exact numbers needed do vary from one type of gameplay to another, but MMOs are a social experience and if you have ever walked into a real life bar and only you and your two mates are there, well that is rather lacking.
Those who play MMOs as if they were solo games are not going to be so bothered by numbers, if they are PvP's though I imagine it would be more important to them.
Let us not forget that Massive also refers to the size of the game you are playing in, which is so important for everything from exploring to PvP zones. Again there are players for whom that will be not so important, if you want to hear a Ping! every 10 seconds as you move around a tiny MMO will suit you better.
But there is a reason our planet's major cities and features like the Grand Canyon and the Pyramids are so popular. Massive is better.
"high end" content are done with a party of small dimensions (often guild mates). The vast majority of the PvE I do is open, usually interacting with the other players at least on the fighting level: for more complex events, I sometimes organize squads and give instructions to people, still a significant "multiplayer" experience.
I can't ignore the fact that I interact with only a fraction of the players online at any given moment tho.
About graphics: I'm gonna open a thread in the future, maybe in another section
I haven't been an extended player of those type of game, but I'm not entirely sure that a small server with less vertical progression and separation of content would feel less "massive" compared with a themepark.
I don't "need" massive. I'm not a raider or "end game is the game" kind of player. I'm a "the journey is the game" kind of player and seeing other players around me, to interact with, to group or help with does not "need" 1000s of other players around me specifically, just a few, maybe in the tens (10, 20, 30, etc).
On the other hand, getting "tens of players" all in one place at the same time is not easy (just ask any raid leader!), so there needs to be a huge pool to draw from. Like @DMKano, pointed out, millions (I'd rather it be more like hundreds of thousands) of players in the "pool" so that "a few" can be in the same area is best for me.
All of this hinges, of course, on an actual living world, not a series of instances
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Location doesn't mean anything anymore. With fast travel and leveled zones. Even in UO with porting and recall the world got small quick. I would like to see an in game community grow with less transience etc. Mortal Online (draws cross on chest) tried to do this and had some more success. Sandbox world can pull it of to some extent if they have multiple level mobs all over.
TLDR: I could do with less people if it increased community or recognition of other players. If it just means less players for no other reason then I would miss the "massiveness".
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Which UO was and is .. You can be in Brit and a friend could be getting attacked by reds on the other side of the world say Skara Brae , And you could be called to help ...( we used ICQ back then)A thief at your house in Moonglow.. get help yes from anywhere in the game world ..
The same applied to SWG/Anarchy Online /Asherons Call /DAOC/Eve, etc .. These are the games that DEFINED the MMO genre, and the defined it by delivering the same engaging persistent WORLDS , wether it SWG and your friends Town being attacked on another planet , or a Keep in DAOC , or a World Event in AC , Notum Wars in AO etc..
How many though really varies when it comes to the games themselves, in Eve Online a few thousand people in the same area, whether its a trading hub like Jita or Amarr, or a multiple fleet encounter, those kinds of things fit within the theme of the game, not having those kinds of numbers would actually be hugely detrimental to the overall gaming experience.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It's like a movie boasting about having X many CGI objects in a scene at once. At some point, it becomes technology for technology's sake.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I guess from a business standpoint, we'd need Massive to mean a shit ton of players spending money on a game to make a great profit.
I guess from a tech standpoint, we're left to tech determining the meaning/qty of massive at the time the game is made.
From a player standpoint, I'm more worried about a MMORPG providing entertainment to a massive amount of play styles, so my friends and I keep coming back to a shared space where we all get our itches scratched together, whether it's the same type of itch or not.
I'm more worried about dev's providing a massive amount of game play/mechanics to make it worth my time/money investment per entertainment value's sake.
Make systems massively deep, and reward those willing to put time in them, and NEVER ruin the experience by watering down the process for those that flit from one thing to the next.
If it takes me months and months to earn or unlock something playing an hour a night, a few nights a week, but it takes someone less time because they are able to play 10-12 hours a day, then so be it. Don't ruin their experience or make them feel they wasted their time to make it easier for me, when I didn't even ask for that in the first place....
I see a lot of massive flash with minimal substance more times than not today.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
P.S. when doing Escalation Protocol we're group of 9 people if it matters.