Star Citizen and refunds.

Durzax

[mod edit]

Common sense would inform the person/s in question that years after the fact of a their own free will expenditure they do not have any claim to a refund.

Wizardry

Somebody said "risks of crowd funding" ummm LMAO,,what risk is there playing with money that is not your own?
I am pretty sure that 100% of the people in these forums would gladly assume these so called risks for some free money.
What is the risk,i might lose 50% of that money?Ok no problem,here give me a million,i'll lose 500k of that right away ,there you go ,no more risk.I'll just slide that 500k into a foreign bank account In Trinidad Tobago,now i can go into maintenance mode,thanks for your patronage.Oh but our game is still in development,i just need some more of that RISKY money to get started again !1.

Kefo

Durzax said:

Common sense coming from you @kefo, oh that is rich.
thanks for the laugh riot.

Common sense would inform the person/s in question that years after the fact of a their own free will expenditure they do not have any claim to a refund.

You’re welcome! 

And do they have a complete product where they have been delivered everything that they were promised based on the amount of money they paid? 

No?

Guess CIG hasn’t held up their end of the contract so yeah people can still go for refunds 

MaxBacon

Kefo said:

You’re welcome! 

And do they have a complete product where they have been delivered everything that they were promised based on the amount of money they paid? 

No?

Guess CIG hasn’t held up their end of the contract so yeah people can still go for refunds 

That's again assumptions based on reality gaps from law, as the lawyer guy update video on refunds explained quite well what it means in the matter of contractual basis, the ToS covers it and can't be challenged on the US (as no illegal activity involved), over it, the arbitration clause is imposing.

One has to get a lawyer involved to find out if you actually have the rights you think you have, this failed suit and the lawyer explanation of how it works in the US shown the clear reality gap on what was being said vs how it actually works.

The arguments I've seen brought to say they didn't held their end are extremely weak, such as the one money spend on game development and not marketing, as any company would easy shut that argument down as part of it, also they have their subs specific to funding that type of stuff.

Kefo

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

You’re welcome! 

And do they have a complete product where they have been delivered everything that they were promised based on the amount of money they paid? 

No?

Guess CIG hasn’t held up their end of the contract so yeah people can still go for refunds 

That's again assumptions based on reality gaps from law, as the lawyer guy update video on refunds explained quite well what it means in the matter of contractual basis, the ToS covers it and can't be challenged on the US (as no illegal activity involved), over it, the arbitration clause is imposing.

One has to get a lawyer involved to find out if you actually have the rights you think you have, this failed suit and the lawyer explanation of how it works in the US shown the clear reality gap on what was being said vs how it actually works.

The arguments I've seen brought to say they didn't held their end are extremely weak, such as the one money spend on game development and not marketing, as any company would easy shut that argument down as part of it, also they have their subs specific to funding that type of stuff.

Good thing this isn’t just a US based product then. The real fun will begin when a European backer decides they want their money back and they have real consumer protection laws backing them up

Kyleran

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

You’re welcome! 

And do they have a complete product where they have been delivered everything that they were promised based on the amount of money they paid? 

No?

Guess CIG hasn’t held up their end of the contract so yeah people can still go for refunds 

That's again assumptions based on reality gaps from law, as the lawyer guy update video on refunds explained quite well what it means in the matter of contractual basis, the ToS covers it and can't be challenged on the US (as no illegal activity involved), over it, the arbitration clause is imposing.

One has to get a lawyer involved to find out if you actually have the rights you think you have, this failed suit and the lawyer explanation of how it works in the US shown the clear reality gap on what was being said vs how it actually works.

The arguments I've seen brought to say they didn't held their end are extremely weak, such as the one money spend on game development and not marketing, as any company would easy shut that argument down as part of it, also they have their subs specific to funding that type of stuff.

Good thing this isn’t just a US based product then. The real fun will begin when a European backer decides they want their money back and they have real consumer protection laws backing them up

Interesting though, out of tens of thousands of backers SC must have, not one legal challenge by anyone  living in the EU?

Weird.

Erillion

Kyleran said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

You’re welcome! 

And do they have a complete product where they have been delivered everything that they were promised based on the amount of money they paid? 

No?

Guess CIG hasn’t held up their end of the contract so yeah people can still go for refunds 

That's again assumptions based on reality gaps from law, as the lawyer guy update video on refunds explained quite well what it means in the matter of contractual basis, the ToS covers it and can't be challenged on the US (as no illegal activity involved), over it, the arbitration clause is imposing.

One has to get a lawyer involved to find out if you actually have the rights you think you have, this failed suit and the lawyer explanation of how it works in the US shown the clear reality gap on what was being said vs how it actually works.

The arguments I've seen brought to say they didn't held their end are extremely weak, such as the one money spend on game development and not marketing, as any company would easy shut that argument down as part of it, also they have their subs specific to funding that type of stuff.

Good thing this isn’t just a US based product then. The real fun will begin when a European backer decides they want their money back and they have real consumer protection laws backing them up

Interesting though, out of tens of thousands of backers SC must have, not one legal challenge by anyone reading in the EU?

Weird.

Roman law mostly, usually not English case law. 

Less insane than the US court system. Less gold diggers on all sides. 

Not always fair or just, but always according to the law. Even if that means they have to discuss and create that EU wide law first.

(Mostly) logical, not weird. 


Have fun

lahnmir

Kyleran said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

You’re welcome! 

And do they have a complete product where they have been delivered everything that they were promised based on the amount of money they paid? 

No?

Guess CIG hasn’t held up their end of the contract so yeah people can still go for refunds 

That's again assumptions based on reality gaps from law, as the lawyer guy update video on refunds explained quite well what it means in the matter of contractual basis, the ToS covers it and can't be challenged on the US (as no illegal activity involved), over it, the arbitration clause is imposing.

One has to get a lawyer involved to find out if you actually have the rights you think you have, this failed suit and the lawyer explanation of how it works in the US shown the clear reality gap on what was being said vs how it actually works.

The arguments I've seen brought to say they didn't held their end are extremely weak, such as the one money spend on game development and not marketing, as any company would easy shut that argument down as part of it, also they have their subs specific to funding that type of stuff.

Good thing this isn’t just a US based product then. The real fun will begin when a European backer decides they want their money back and they have real consumer protection laws backing them up

Interesting though, out of tens of thousands of backers SC must have, not one legal challenge by anyone reading in the EU?

Weird.

Nah, we are a pretty chill people. Maybe it is because we are very wealthty so we don't mind throwing a couple of grand to a struggling company and their poor owner, like CIG and Roberts. Perhaps its the best wine and cheese in the world, or the gorgeous totally not obese women we surround ourselves with. I don't know, we just complain very little.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Kyleran

lahnmir said:

Kyleran said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

You’re welcome! 

And do they have a complete product where they have been delivered everything that they were promised based on the amount of money they paid? 

No?

Guess CIG hasn’t held up their end of the contract so yeah people can still go for refunds 

That's again assumptions based on reality gaps from law, as the lawyer guy update video on refunds explained quite well what it means in the matter of contractual basis, the ToS covers it and can't be challenged on the US (as no illegal activity involved), over it, the arbitration clause is imposing.

One has to get a lawyer involved to find out if you actually have the rights you think you have, this failed suit and the lawyer explanation of how it works in the US shown the clear reality gap on what was being said vs how it actually works.

The arguments I've seen brought to say they didn't held their end are extremely weak, such as the one money spend on game development and not marketing, as any company would easy shut that argument down as part of it, also they have their subs specific to funding that type of stuff.

Good thing this isn’t just a US based product then. The real fun will begin when a European backer decides they want their money back and they have real consumer protection laws backing them up

Interesting though, out of tens of thousands of backers SC must have, not one legal challenge by anyone reading in the EU?

Weird.

Nah, we are a pretty chill people. Maybe it is because we are very wealthty so we don't mind throwing a couple of grand to a struggling company and their poor owner, like CIG and Roberts. Perhaps its the best wine and cheese in the world, or the gorgeous totally not obese women we surround ourselves with. I don't know, we just complain very little.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

The free health care and legalized pot probably doesn't hurt either, nor do you have to carry firearms when going to the movies. (Don't laugh, I have)

No wonder we're mostly insane here.  

Erillion

lahnmir said:

Nah, we are a pretty chill people.

--> True.

Maybe it is because we are very wealthty

--> Some.

so we don't mind throwing a couple of grand to a struggling company and their poor owner

--> Nestle ?

, like CIG and Roberts. Perhaps its the best wine

--> ** sigh ** France

and cheese

--> ** sigh ** Switzerland

in the world, or the gorgeous totally not obese women we surround ourselves with

--> ** sigh ** Spain

. I don't know, we just complain very little.

--> ** sigh ** if only ....

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

--> Have fun

Kyleran

Erillion said:

lahnmir said:

Nah, we are a pretty chill people.

--> True.

Maybe it is because we are very wealthty

--> Some.

so we don't mind throwing a couple of grand to a struggling company and their poor owner

--> Nestle ?

, like CIG and Roberts. Perhaps its the best wine

--> ** sigh ** France

and cheese

--> ** sigh ** Switzerland

in the world, or the gorgeous totally not obese women we surround ourselves with

--> ** sigh ** Spain

. I don't know, we just complain very little.

--> ** sigh ** if only ....

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

--> Have fun

I assume @lahnmir lives in some Euro paradise like Belgium.

My daughter wants to move there after finding out their teachers are the highest paid in the world, almost double the US I think.

lahnmir

Kyleran said:

Erillion said:

lahnmir said:

Nah, we are a pretty chill people.

--> True.

Maybe it is because we are very wealthty

--> Some.

so we don't mind throwing a couple of grand to a struggling company and their poor owner

--> Nestle ?

, like CIG and Roberts. Perhaps its the best wine

--> ** sigh ** France

and cheese

--> ** sigh ** Switzerland

in the world, or the gorgeous totally not obese women we surround ourselves with

--> ** sigh ** Spain

. I don't know, we just complain very little.

--> ** sigh ** if only ....

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

--> Have fun

I assume @lahnmir lives in some Euro paradise like Belgium.

My daughter wants to move there after finding out their teachers are the highest paid in the world, almost double the US I think.

I'm Dutch actually, we rate ourselves slightly above Belgium, oh so slightly 

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Erillion

lahnmir said:

I'm Dutch actually, we rate ourselves slightly above Belgium, oh so slightly 

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

With the average height of Dutch people your are "above" just about everyone worldwide ;-)

Have fun

Kyleran

Erillion said:

lahnmir said:

I'm Dutch actually, we rate ourselves slightly above Belgium, oh so slightly 

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

With the average height of Dutch people your are "above" just about everyone worldwide ;-)

Have fun

And here they tell us pot smoking will stunt your growth, go figure....

MaxBacon

Erillion said:

With the average height of Dutch people your are "above" just about everyone worldwide ;-)

Have fun

Agreed, evil Dutch and their "above" than everyone else standards. //wants its trade routes back

MaxBacon

Kyleran said:
And here they tell us pot smoking will stunt your growth, go figure....

In Portugal drugs are pretty much legal, turns out we have extremely good numbers in terms of crime, health problems and such related to it, they make studies worldwide asking themselves how. All is chill, I guess that's why Americans are always so angry, oh and the British they also like to be angry at something (interestingly weed is also illegal there).

So if anything happens it's likely going to be by the British, not really seeing it from Europeans, maybe on Germany.

Kyleran

MaxBacon said:

Kyleran said:
And here they tell us pot smoking will stunt your growth, go figure....

In Portugal drugs are pretty much legal, turns out we have extremely good numbers in terms of crime, health problems and such related to it, they make studies worldwide asking themselves how. All is chill, I guess that's why Americans are always so angry, oh and the British they also like to be angry at something (interestingly weed is also illegal there).

So if anything happens it's likely going to be by the British, not really seeing it from Europeans, maybe on Germany.

Now there is a country that rarely makes the news here, wasn't sure it still existed. 

Erillion

Kyleran said:

MaxBacon said:

Kyleran said:
And here they tell us pot smoking will stunt your growth, go figure....

In Portugal drugs are pretty much legal, turns out we have extremely good numbers in terms of crime, health problems and such related to it, they make studies worldwide asking themselves how. All is chill, I guess that's why Americans are always so angry, oh and the British they also like to be angry at something (interestingly weed is also illegal there).

So if anything happens it's likely going to be by the British, not really seeing it from Europeans, maybe on Germany.

Now there is a country that rarely makes the news here, wasn't sure it still existed. 

And they do play Star Citizen there too ;-) They know what is good and how to live well. Got a pal in Lisboa. 


Have fun

Thane

Wizardry said:

Somebody said "risks of crowd funding" ummm LMAO,,what risk is there playing with money that is not your own?
I am pretty sure that 100% of the people in these forums would gladly assume these so called risks for some free money.
What is the risk,i might lose 50% of that money?Ok no problem,here give me a million,i'll lose 500k of that right away ,there you go ,no more risk.I'll just slide that 500k into a foreign bank account In Trinidad Tobago,now i can go into maintenance mode,thanks for your patronage.Oh but our game is still in development,i just need some more of that RISKY money to get started again !1.

i bet you are a good businessman, ait? ^^

seriously... if you ask for a refund after playing for what now, 2 or 3 years? then you are either drunk, an asshole, or just a weirdo.

kikoodutroa8

Thane said:

Wizardry said:

Somebody said "risks of crowd funding" ummm LMAO,,what risk is there playing with money that is not your own?
I am pretty sure that 100% of the people in these forums would gladly assume these so called risks for some free money.
What is the risk,i might lose 50% of that money?Ok no problem,here give me a million,i'll lose 500k of that right away ,there you go ,no more risk.I'll just slide that 500k into a foreign bank account In Trinidad Tobago,now i can go into maintenance mode,thanks for your patronage.Oh but our game is still in development,i just need some more of that RISKY money to get started again !1.

i bet you are a good businessman, ait? ^^

seriously... if you ask for a refund after playing for what now, 2 or 3 years? then you are either drunk, an asshole, or just a weirdo.

He was not playing, he was alpha-testing and bug-reporting.

Tiamat64

Depending on what ships one buys (of which a lot more than half have been sold but aren't yet playable, including the biggest most expensive capital ships), one might not even be able to alpha-test the item they purchased.

Kyleran

Tiamat64 said:

Depending on what ships one buys (of which a lot more than half have been sold but aren't yet playable, including the biggest most expensive capital ships), one might not even be able to alpha-test the item they purchased.

I doubt they will come out of testing until all ships have been delivered into the game for a reasonable time.

Players just may not be able to test them any time in the near future.   Perhaps in 2020 sometime.

Babuinix

It's almost like people were forced to give money to cig lol

Basic package = Full access to all the content

Rest is just a bonus to extend the support of game development.

Seems like crowdfunding is still hard to grasp for some folks 

ScotchUp

Babuinix said:

It's almost like people were forced to give money to cig lol

Basic package = Full access to all the content

Rest is just a bonus to extend the support of game development.

Seems like crowdfunding is still hard to grasp for some folks 

It's not the crowdfunding (granted if SC never releases like Roberts promised it will hurt crowdfunding} it's the part when people start thinking scam.

Kyleran

Babuinix said:

Rest is just a bonus to extend  the delivery date of the two games.

Corrected a typo in your post. No need to thank me, keeping people accurate is all part of the service.