XCOM 2 or BattleTech?

MightyUnclean

Hey guys,

I haven't played a turn-based strategy game in many years.  I've been eyeing XCOM 2 and BattleTech on Steam, but I'm a little concerned at the difficulty and complexity of both.  Which one gives the easier, leas complex, more user-friendly experience?  Simpler UI and combat, better tutorial, all that?

Thanks!

jimmywolf

have not played battle tech so cannot say how hard that is but i do know you can mod x com 2 to make it much easier from steam or nexus mod.


it does a decent job giving you as a player a idea how to play, the game loves to force you into bad situations  no matter how you play so don't be shocked when it keeps making things go south.

TheScavenger

I didn't like Battletech at all. Pretty much same reasons as Nyctelios...but for me on top of what Nyc posted. it really felt like a reskin of Xcom but not as good. It didn't feel like mechs...and you only get a small limit of mechs one can use forcing you to use the biggest mechs instead of a variety of small/medium/large mechs.

I liked xcom a lot more.

MadFrenchie

XCOM is likely the better route, but it also isn't an easy, simple, or incredibly user-friendly (The UI and stuff is, but it will also intentionally pit you in a position where there isn't a way to always win, even if you complete every mission successfully).  It's a game that forces shortages of resources on you, then asks you how you want to approach the situation to make the best use of the resources you do have.

The setting is altogether awesome, and being able to rename and model operatives after friends and family gives a little extra oomph behind the permadeath feature regarding said operatives.  Your best friend-modeled operative WILL be viciously eviscerated by an alien at some point, and he/she ain't coming back from that.  But you can always cry over their photo in the memorial to the fallen back at HQ.

MightyUnclean

OK, XCOM 2 it is.  I guess loading a saved game after a defeat is called "save scumming" and is frowned upon?  And there's a setting to make it so you can't do that?

atonico

Can I suggest Into the Breach? It's not as polished as Xcom, but it's pretty addictive

MadFrenchie

MightyUnclean said:

OK, XCOM 2 it is.  I guess loading a saved game after a defeat is called "save scumming" and is frowned upon?  And there's a setting to make it so you can't do that?

There is Iron Man mode (I think that's what it's called), but unless you plan on joining a forum for XCOM 2 discussion to mention it, do whatever you think will keep your personal morale up enough to continue.  Believe me, just because you reload into a mission that went awry one way, it absolutely doesn't mean it won't go horribly awry another way the second/third/fourth/Nth time through.

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MightyUnclean

MadFrenchie said:

MightyUnclean said:

OK, XCOM 2 it is.  I guess loading a saved game after a defeat is called "save scumming" and is frowned upon?  And there's a setting to make it so you can't do that?

There is Iron Man mode (I think that's what it's called), but unless you plan on joining a forum for XCOM 2 discussion to mention it, do whatever you think will keep your personal morale up enough to continue.  Believe me, just because you reload into a mission that went awry one way, it absolutely doesn't mean it won't go horribly awry another way the second/third/fourth/Nth time through.

Good lord, is it that bad?  Sounds like it might get frustrating.

MadFrenchie

MightyUnclean said:

MadFrenchie said:

MightyUnclean said:

OK, XCOM 2 it is.  I guess loading a saved game after a defeat is called "save scumming" and is frowned upon?  And there's a setting to make it so you can't do that?

There is Iron Man mode (I think that's what it's called), but unless you plan on joining a forum for XCOM 2 discussion to mention it, do whatever you think will keep your personal morale up enough to continue.  Believe me, just because you reload into a mission that went awry one way, it absolutely doesn't mean it won't go horribly awry another way the second/third/fourth/Nth time through.

Good lord, is it that bad?  Sounds like it might get frustrating.

It can be, you just have to go into it knowing this isn't like most tactical turn-based games.  It encourages you to take lower level squaddies along with your vets so that losing someone on a mission isn't completely disastrous.

It is very much one of those "You'll always be short on something" games.  Playing on normal difficulty, don't expect that you will 100% complete the campaign successfully on your first try.  It's tuned for a long-term delve into the game; you take what you learned from the prior playthrough and apply it to become more efficient and better equipped on the next.  Of course, there are difficulty levels that can help alter that.

It's certainly not a "sit back, relax, and massacre all the aliens" game.  Those aliens will put up a good fight, and your squadmates will not become godlike (well, maybe late game after you've got a pretty good handle on the mechanics and what you need to focus on early, mid, and late game).  I would recommend saving before difficult missions with unique, intuitive save names.  You don't have to reload every time a mission doesn't go perfectly, but it will help to avoid starting completely from scratch should you find that a certain mission was when your campaign started to go south in general.

MightyUnclean

Xodic said:

I dumped 60 hours the first week BattleTech was released. I've always been a huge fan. I have not played it since they've patched it up, but there were a few annoyances.

I will without a doubt pick it back up once the upcoming DLC is released.

Hey @Xodic, FYI, I believe that there is already some player-made mod called RogueTech or something that is supposed to add a lot of playability.

MightyUnclean

MadFrenchie said:

MightyUnclean said:

MadFrenchie said:

MightyUnclean said:

OK, XCOM 2 it is.  I guess loading a saved game after a defeat is called "save scumming" and is frowned upon?  And there's a setting to make it so you can't do that?

There is Iron Man mode (I think that's what it's called), but unless you plan on joining a forum for XCOM 2 discussion to mention it, do whatever you think will keep your personal morale up enough to continue.  Believe me, just because you reload into a mission that went awry one way, it absolutely doesn't mean it won't go horribly awry another way the second/third/fourth/Nth time through.

Good lord, is it that bad?  Sounds like it might get frustrating.

It can be, you just have to go into it knowing this isn't like most tactical turn-based games.  It encourages you to take lower level squaddies along with your vets so that losing someone on a mission isn't completely disastrous.

It is very much one of those "You'll always be short on something" games.  Playing on normal difficulty, don't expect that you will 100% complete the campaign successfully on your first try.  It's tuned for a long-term delve into the game; you take what you learned from the prior playthrough and apply it to become more efficient and better equipped on the next.  Of course, there are difficulty levels that can help alter that.

It's certainly not a "sit back, relax, and massacre all the aliens" game.  Those aliens will put up a good fight, and your squadmates will not become godlike (well, maybe late game after you've got a pretty good handle on the mechanics and what you need to focus on early, mid, and late game).  I would recommend saving before difficult missions with unique, intuitive save names.  You don't have to reload every time a mission doesn't go perfectly, but it will help to avoid starting completely from scratch should you find that a certain mission was when your campaign started to go south in general.

Hmm, I'd hate to put $60 into it just to find out it's more than I'd bargained for.  Any suggestions on any other turn-based games that might ease me back into the genre without crushing my hopes and dreams?

MadFrenchie

MightyUnclean said:

MadFrenchie said:

MightyUnclean said:

MadFrenchie said:

MightyUnclean said:

OK, XCOM 2 it is.  I guess loading a saved game after a defeat is called "save scumming" and is frowned upon?  And there's a setting to make it so you can't do that?

There is Iron Man mode (I think that's what it's called), but unless you plan on joining a forum for XCOM 2 discussion to mention it, do whatever you think will keep your personal morale up enough to continue.  Believe me, just because you reload into a mission that went awry one way, it absolutely doesn't mean it won't go horribly awry another way the second/third/fourth/Nth time through.

Good lord, is it that bad?  Sounds like it might get frustrating.

It can be, you just have to go into it knowing this isn't like most tactical turn-based games.  It encourages you to take lower level squaddies along with your vets so that losing someone on a mission isn't completely disastrous.

It is very much one of those "You'll always be short on something" games.  Playing on normal difficulty, don't expect that you will 100% complete the campaign successfully on your first try.  It's tuned for a long-term delve into the game; you take what you learned from the prior playthrough and apply it to become more efficient and better equipped on the next.  Of course, there are difficulty levels that can help alter that.

It's certainly not a "sit back, relax, and massacre all the aliens" game.  Those aliens will put up a good fight, and your squadmates will not become godlike (well, maybe late game after you've got a pretty good handle on the mechanics and what you need to focus on early, mid, and late game).  I would recommend saving before difficult missions with unique, intuitive save names.  You don't have to reload every time a mission doesn't go perfectly, but it will help to avoid starting completely from scratch should you find that a certain mission was when your campaign started to go south in general.

Hmm, I'd hate to put $60 into it just to find out it's more than I'd bargained for.  Any suggestions on any other turn-based games that might ease me back into the genre without crushing my hopes and dreams?

If you haven't played Wasteland 2, it's more forgiving.  The biggest detriment I would give it is that the character companions you meet in the world will come with a lot of points in skills you might find useless as one of your party members already has that covered.  However, there is a character editor tool you can use to alter that (you can also cheat by basically giving your party items and stuff with it, but I used it only to make a new companion fit better by not completely wasting half their starting points on skills like safecracking that I already had pumped on another character).

I'd say the roughest part of that game is starting out and finding ammo.  There are perks that help with this through finding extra ammo, and as you progress and sell items, you'll generally keep enough cash to buy ammo you need.  It's got a post-apoc setting, which is cool in its own right.  It uses a cover system much like XCom, but you just won't do a lot of running into new mobs you didn't see coming that rip through a squadmate before you have a chance to react (I remember the first time I encountered a Cryssalid in XCom: EW.  The first one murdered a squadmate before I could react or even knew what the hell those things were capable of ).

EDIT- Shadowrun is anothe good one.  Additionally, both these titles come at a lower price point.  Xcom if well worth the price, but unforgiving.

MightyUnclean

Hmmm...Wasteland 2...post-apocalyptic...Are there mutants?

MadFrenchie

MightyUnclean said:

Hmmm...Wasteland 2...post-apocalyptic...Are there mutants?

Yes.  And mutated plant life and wildlife.  Oh, and robots/synths.  And gangs of crazed desert dwellers.

MadFrenchie

Nyctelios said:

MadFrenchie said:

MightyUnclean said:

OK, XCOM 2 it is.  I guess loading a saved game after a defeat is called "save scumming" and is frowned upon?  And there's a setting to make it so you can't do that?

There is Iron Man mode (I think that's what it's called), but unless you plan on joining a forum for XCOM 2 discussion to mention it, do whatever you think will keep your personal morale up enough to continue.  Believe me, just because you reload into a mission that went awry one way, it absolutely doesn't mean it won't go horribly awry another way the second/third/fourth/Nth time through.

Actually you can't save scum. It creates a seed. If you try to save scum most shots will have the same results (miss or hit) and you'll end up losing the same person regardless.

Believe me, I tested the shit out of it.

That's why I don't recommend saving in mission.  Haha, they do prevent it in mission.  Still, you can approach the situation differently by save scumming in mission.  I.e. use a nade instead of missing that 93% shotgun round at point blank.

MightyUnclean

I read and watched a couple of reviews, and I think Wasteland 2 is a good choice at this point.  Maybe XCOM 2 afterwards, when I'm not so stale in the genre.  Thanks, guys!

kitarad

I loved Xcom a lot and I save scum yeah a lot but I did realise that if you save at some wrong place you keep getting bad odds and fail each time. Better to restart the mission.

AlBQuirky

XCom 2 is the beast I know and love. I have watched some streamers play Battletech, but watching did not get me interested in playing it.

It looked like you had some questions about XCom 2 and its difficulty. There are 4 difficulty levels (rookie, veteran, commander, and legendary). I happen to enjoy rookie level, myself. I have tried a couple of veteran runs and they are quite a bit harder. Also, each of these modes can be played regularly (save when you want and save scum to your heart's content) or Iron Man, where there is one autosave that continually gets overwritten. Most of the veteran XCom players call "iron man" the way XCom is supposed to be played. Don't listen to them. Play it how you like.

Modding is alive and well on Steam, and also the Nexus. A lot of UI mods to help improve the information you have at hand. There are also the "strange" armor/weapon mods brough over from other games and movies. There is even a full on game changing mod called "The Long War" that is just like a free DLC, it is that good. So, you'd be getting three games to play: Vanilla XCom 2, "The Long War" XCom 2, and War of the Chosen XCom 2

If you enjoy turned based squad strategy games with a bit of base building and research on the side, I can't recommend this series enough