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When will Caspien get realistic?

Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,249
Back in October, on these very forums... Caspien said his team was now back on (the new) track for timeline (July 2017). He even directly stated:

"All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January."

Since that post, they have laid off staff, publicly stated that Store Bought items can be used AFTER launch, stated that they replaced all they needed from SpatialOS and yet STILL have not had Alpha 1 Backers into their pre-alpha VoxElyria game.   It's now 9 months after his post.  

Publicly, as far as I know... he is still saying that they are pretty much on the timeline below:
  1. V3 of the Website (Q3 2017)
  2. ElyriaMUD (Q4 2017)
  3. Alpha 1 (T1 2018)
  4. Server Selection (T1 2018)
  5. Settlement / Domain Selection (T2 2018)
  6. KoE (T2 2018)
  7. Design Experiences (T3 2018)
  8. Alpha 2 (T3 2018)
  9. Beta 1 (S1 2019)
  10. Prologue & CoE Adventure Toolkit (S1 2019)
  11. Exposition (S1 2019)
  12. Beta 2 (S1/S2 2019)
  13. Stress Test (Any paid account)(S2 2019)
  14. Launch (S2 2019)

They should have done ElyriaMud (now Vox Elyria), Alpha 1, Server Selection, Settlement/Domain selection and KoE by now.  They should be ramping up for Alpha 2.

Instead, they are still stuck before #2 on the list.   I mean, he even skipped the July State of Elyria this year IMHO just to avoid the obvious elephant in the room...

Putting your head in the sand has NEVER been the way that problems get resolved.

I'll go back to my response from October:

The problem isn't the MMORPG forums. 

The problem is that your game was supposed to be in 3 month no wipe Headstart now and full release by the end of the year.  Instead you have released nothing except more and more monetization items.  Maybe by January (per your post) people will have a client to move their minecraft figures around.  If... instead of blaming everyone else... you actually did what you said and had launched your game's Exposition by now.. there wouldn't be a need to blame anyone.  But since you're  now saying you will be 2 years late.  That's on you.   Suck it up, stop deflecting, do what you promise and guess what.  All the complaints go away.

and

I mean... the discussion starts and ends with the fact that they said they would be fully launching the game around now.  They were told how unrealistic that was.  They actually went and mocked the people who told them this.  To date: 

They have not launched... 
they haven't had their 3 month Headstart... 
they haven't had Beta 2... 
They haven't had Beta 1...
 They haven't had Alpha 2...
They haven't had Alpha 1...
They haven't had the Prologue
They haven't had the Kingdoms Game
They haven't had the Mud 
They haven't actually done ANY of that which was supposed to be done

They HAVE sold things
Sold more things
Decided to find new ways to sell the same things
Announced they will sell more things
Promised to allow people to buy DLC for the Prologue
This all ties into the OP because they wouldn't need such crazy monetization if they had been launching now.  Because their timeline more than doubled they need to find the cash to fund it.


Nine months later and that exact quote still applies. When will he just get realistic?

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

XodicMadFrenchiecraftseekerAzaron_NightbladeRhoklawGdemamiCheshireCatt24
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Comments

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,249
    @JeromyWalsh Feel free to use this thread to give a realistic update on your expected timeline and release date.  It's the least you can do for a customer base that gave you $4.6M so far.   Don't you agree?

    I mean, there should be SOME minimal level of accountability right?

    craftseekerpantaroGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • XodicXodic RealityMember RarePosts: 917
    If they don't take advantage of these people, they'll just be victims to something else.
    Dakerucraftseekeranemo
  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAMember EpicPosts: 2,760
    At least, can we get a glimpse at the lunch menu.  $4.6M US should do quite a nice spread for a sizable crew for quite a few consecutive days.  You are tipping 18% or better, right?  ($838,000 is 18% -- I did the math for you).



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 5,614
    I'm thinking something crazy but what if they aren't really planning to make a game?
    craftseekerRhoklaw
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,654
    In all fairness Slap, I think going for the ostrich approach really isn't that bad of an idea for him currently.
    It's probably better to come out with at least.. something.. before surfacing again.

    Funny Fact:
    The whole Price - Deroir ordeal reminded me of you.
    How many games would have been safed (or at least fully released) if they had considered your input, rather than seeing you as "that guy who spoke up on our private internet space without being asked"?

    Gdemami
    Harbinger of Fools
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 12,012
    Dakeru said:
    In all fairness Slap, I think going for the ostrich approach really isn't that bad of an idea for him currently.
    It's probably better to come out with at least.. something.. before surfacing again.

    Funny Fact:
    The whole Price - Deroir ordeal reminded me of you.
    How many games would have been safed (or at least fully released) if they had considered your input, rather than seeing you as "that guy who spoke up on our private internet space without being asked"?

    The way Slappy is always calling Caspien out makes him some kind of *ist. Maybe a WASPist :)
    Dakeru
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,249
    Albatroes said:
    I'm thinking something crazy but what if they aren't really planning to make a game?
    See, I totally think he believes what he says.  It’s just been pure incompetence and not an intentional scam IMHO.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,774
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    AnOldFart

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros USMember EpicPosts: 2,924
    Kyleran said:

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.



    Try three years.  The original beta for Camelot Unchained was to release in July 18, 2015.
  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 London MIlls, ILMember UncommonPosts: 315
    vaporware.....

    They just couldn't get the funding they needed. Time to pack it in. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,249
    Kyleran said:
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    I expect people to do what they say they will do.  That goes for MJ as well as Caspien.  The difference is that MJ is giving refunds to people and Caspien is just holding sale after sale.  But heck if someone is pissed about CU being delayed they should go get their refund.   Try that with CoE and let me know how it goes.

    That also applies to "going dark".  Sorry, but there needs to be some accountability.  You can't just "go dark" when you have taken people's money, refuse refunds and are literally years late on your delivery.  
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • daarcodaarco GavleMember UncommonPosts: 4,272
    Relax, either it will be released sometime or it will not.
    People may or may not freely invest some money into something they belive in.
    Not much to argue about.

    KyleranSedrynTyrosmystichazeCheshireCatt24
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,774
    edited July 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    I expect people to do what they say they will do.  That goes for MJ as well as Caspien.  The difference is that MJ is giving refunds to people and Caspien is just holding sale after sale.  But heck if someone is pissed about CU being delayed they should go get their refund.   Try that with CoE and let me know how it goes.

    That also applies to "going dark".  Sorry, but there needs to be some accountability.  You can't just "go dark" when you have taken people's money, refuse refunds and are literally years late on your delivery.  
    Actually, legally he can....as long as there is some evidence of continuing activity, he is meeting KS's terms. 

    As for sales in his store,  he clearly states no refunds.

    Refunds are nice to have, but optional except where required by law.l
    Post edited by Kyleran on
    GdemamiAnOldFart

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Enfield, CTMember UncommonPosts: 257
    The Chronicle 2.0

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 15,401
    The major problem with this game has been from day 1...deceptive practices.

    A video game that involves money NEEDS to be 100% fair across the board,that pretty much eliminates now a day standards for crowd funding.

    If it was done totally honest,no perks for being a backer and NO cash shop,i might have stayed interested.
    The whole idea of a crowd funded game is you GIVE money because you feel it is worth it and NOT a simple cash shop purchase to one up on other potential customers.

    The combination that is crowd funded gaming is deception to entice,bait in people to give them money and the result is a sloppy system/design that is based on GUESSING how much money will be there.
    Crowd funding is imo a definitive answer to FAIL,look at SC,that amount of crowd funding by Robert's own words is worth about 2-5x,so we are talking 300+ million and he has a game that looks like an over night Indie project.Crowd funding can NOT work,it is a terrible idea that is simply there to scam people out of their money.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 10,249
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    I expect people to do what they say they will do.  That goes for MJ as well as Caspien.  The difference is that MJ is giving refunds to people and Caspien is just holding sale after sale.  But heck if someone is pissed about CU being delayed they should go get their refund.   Try that with CoE and let me know how it goes.

    That also applies to "going dark".  Sorry, but there needs to be some accountability.  You can't just "go dark" when you have taken people's money, refuse refunds and are literally years late on your delivery.  
    Actually, legally he can....as long as there is some evidence of continuing activity, he is meeting KS's terms. 

    As for sales in his store,  he clearly states no refunds.

    Refunds are nice to have, but optional except where required by law.l
    Yeah.. I understand there is no law requiring it.  Simply saying that when you take $4.6M in people's money (and won't give it back) and are so ridiculously behind schedule that there needs to be some sort of accountability.  Going Dark is just IMHO the absolutely worst thing you can do.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 31,774
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    I expect people to do what they say they will do.  That goes for MJ as well as Caspien.  The difference is that MJ is giving refunds to people and Caspien is just holding sale after sale.  But heck if someone is pissed about CU being delayed they should go get their refund.   Try that with CoE and let me know how it goes.

    That also applies to "going dark".  Sorry, but there needs to be some accountability.  You can't just "go dark" when you have taken people's money, refuse refunds and are literally years late on your delivery.  
    Actually, legally he can....as long as there is some evidence of continuing activity, he is meeting KS's terms. 

    As for sales in his store,  he clearly states no refunds.

    Refunds are nice to have, but optional except where required by law.l
    Yeah.. I understand there is no law requiring it.  Simply saying that when you take $4.6M in people's money (and won't give it back) and are so ridiculously behind schedule that there needs to be some sort of accountability.  Going Dark is just IMHO the absolutely worst thing you can do.
    Not if there isn't any good news to tell.

    ;)

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 ATM.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember LegendaryPosts: 7,767
    edited July 2018
    He can go dark so long as the timeline doesn't get to the point where it unfairly prejudices backers.  It's actually a question that hasn't really been answered by the courts yet.  At what point is a timeline so grossly inaccurate as to constitute misleading backers into pledging based on false information?
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    Gdemami

    image
  • NildenNilden Canada, NBMember EpicPosts: 2,712
    He can go dark so long as the timeline doesn't get to the point where it unfairly prejudices backers.  It's actually a question that hasn't really been answered by the courts yet.  At what point is a timeline so grossly inaccurate as to constitute misleading backers into pledging based on false information?
    energizer bunny GIFenergizer bunny 90s GIF
    MadFrenchie

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • FangrimFangrim PrestonMember UncommonPosts: 610
    The game where the backers die of old age before it's released. Why anyone would want to play an MMORPG with ageing and permanent death in it is beyond me anyway.


    image

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,101
    Oh look.. Slapshot it pissing on CoE again.. is it Tuesday already?
    SedrynTyrosSlapshot1188Kyleran
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
    Currently Playing Eternal Crusade, because killing people with a Chainsword is more fun then a sniper rifle.
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros USMember EpicPosts: 2,924
    Ungood said:
    Oh look.. Slapshot it pissing on CoE again.. is it Tuesday already?
    Some people enjoy playing games.  Other people enjoy relentlessly harassing people trying to make them.  Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
    Ungood
  • InteritusInteritus Vancouver, BCMember UncommonPosts: 218
    Honestly most kickstarter games (MMO or not) go past their schedule.   There are certainly aspects of CoE that you could argue if they are achievable with the resources they have. Thus asking Caspian to be realistic. But going after the schedule being wrong is a lazy fight.
    SedrynTyros
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 5,614
    Albatroes said:
    I'm thinking something crazy but what if they aren't really planning to make a game?
    See, I totally think he believes what he says.  It’s just been pure incompetence and not an intentional scam IMHO.
    Idk man. All these "delays" and not being completely upfront about what the KS was actually for until a later date sends too many signals to me, like that guy who "tried" to develop divergence online or whatever. That guy opened up a KS like once a year or something, getting between 50-100k each time then claiming he couldn't "finish" the project, even going as far to change the name once or twice to get money from gullibles. To me, Caspien is just trying to ride this thing out as long as he can until there's nothing left to milk.
    Gdemami
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros USMember EpicPosts: 2,924
    Interitus said:
    Honestly most kickstarter games (MMO or not) go past their schedule.   There are certainly aspects of CoE that you could argue if they are achievable with the resources they have. Thus asking Caspian to be realistic. But going after the schedule being wrong is a lazy fight.
    It's the guy who pats themselves on the back because they flip a coin and guess the outcome correctly.  It's about "I'm going to be right and you're going be wrong, and by pointing it out now it will make me feel smart if I turn out to be correct!".  It's the restaurant critic who writes a bad review before dining at the establishment and congratulates themselves when the food ends up tasting bad just like they predicted, not realizing the irony of self-fulfilling prophecy. 

    It's all the most annoying things about every narcissist you've ever met, who cares about nothing else other than proving to the world how right they are.  And you have to hear about it again ... and again .... and again ... and again ... because no matter how many times they let you know it will never be enough to assuage their own insecurity.
    mystichazeGdemamiUngood
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