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When will Caspien get realistic?

Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,474
Back in October, on these very forums... Caspien said his team was now back on (the new) track for timeline (July 2017). He even directly stated:

"All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January."

Since that post, they have laid off staff, publicly stated that Store Bought items can be used AFTER launch, stated that they replaced all they needed from SpatialOS and yet STILL have not had Alpha 1 Backers into their pre-alpha VoxElyria game.   It's now 9 months after his post.  

Publicly, as far as I know... he is still saying that they are pretty much on the timeline below:
  1. V3 of the Website (Q3 2017)
  2. ElyriaMUD (Q4 2017)
  3. Alpha 1 (T1 2018)
  4. Server Selection (T1 2018)
  5. Settlement / Domain Selection (T2 2018)
  6. KoE (T2 2018)
  7. Design Experiences (T3 2018)
  8. Alpha 2 (T3 2018)
  9. Beta 1 (S1 2019)
  10. Prologue & CoE Adventure Toolkit (S1 2019)
  11. Exposition (S1 2019)
  12. Beta 2 (S1/S2 2019)
  13. Stress Test (Any paid account)(S2 2019)
  14. Launch (S2 2019)

They should have done ElyriaMud (now Vox Elyria), Alpha 1, Server Selection, Settlement/Domain selection and KoE by now.  They should be ramping up for Alpha 2.

Instead, they are still stuck before #2 on the list.   I mean, he even skipped the July State of Elyria this year IMHO just to avoid the obvious elephant in the room...

Putting your head in the sand has NEVER been the way that problems get resolved.

I'll go back to my response from October:

The problem isn't the MMORPG forums. 

The problem is that your game was supposed to be in 3 month no wipe Headstart now and full release by the end of the year.  Instead you have released nothing except more and more monetization items.  Maybe by January (per your post) people will have a client to move their minecraft figures around.  If... instead of blaming everyone else... you actually did what you said and had launched your game's Exposition by now.. there wouldn't be a need to blame anyone.  But since you're  now saying you will be 2 years late.  That's on you.   Suck it up, stop deflecting, do what you promise and guess what.  All the complaints go away.

and

I mean... the discussion starts and ends with the fact that they said they would be fully launching the game around now.  They were told how unrealistic that was.  They actually went and mocked the people who told them this.  To date: 

They have not launched... 
they haven't had their 3 month Headstart... 
they haven't had Beta 2... 
They haven't had Beta 1...
 They haven't had Alpha 2...
They haven't had Alpha 1...
They haven't had the Prologue
They haven't had the Kingdoms Game
They haven't had the Mud 
They haven't actually done ANY of that which was supposed to be done

They HAVE sold things
Sold more things
Decided to find new ways to sell the same things
Announced they will sell more things
Promised to allow people to buy DLC for the Prologue
This all ties into the OP because they wouldn't need such crazy monetization if they had been launching now.  Because their timeline more than doubled they need to find the cash to fund it.


Nine months later and that exact quote still applies. When will he just get realistic?

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

XodicMadFrenchiecraftseekerAzaron_Nightblade[Deleted User]GdemamiCheshireCatt24
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Comments

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,474
    @JeromyWalsh Feel free to use this thread to give a realistic update on your expected timeline and release date.  It's the least you can do for a customer base that gave you $4.6M so far.   Don't you agree?

    I mean, there should be SOME minimal level of accountability right?

    craftseekerpantaroGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • XodicXodic Member EpicPosts: 1,335
    If they don't take advantage of these people, they'll just be victims to something else.
    Dakerucraftseekeranemo
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,545
    At least, can we get a glimpse at the lunch menu.  $4.6M US should do quite a nice spread for a sizable crew for quite a few consecutive days.  You are tipping 18% or better, right?  ($838,000 is 18% -- I did the math for you).



    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,669
    I'm thinking something crazy but what if they aren't really planning to make a game?
    craftseeker[Deleted User]
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797
    In all fairness Slap, I think going for the ostrich approach really isn't that bad of an idea for him currently.
    It's probably better to come out with at least.. something.. before surfacing again.

    Funny Fact:
    The whole Price - Deroir ordeal reminded me of you.
    How many games would have been safed (or at least fully released) if they had considered your input, rather than seeing you as "that guy who spoke up on our private internet space without being asked"?

    Gdemami
    Harbinger of Fools
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,668
    Dakeru said:
    In all fairness Slap, I think going for the ostrich approach really isn't that bad of an idea for him currently.
    It's probably better to come out with at least.. something.. before surfacing again.

    Funny Fact:
    The whole Price - Deroir ordeal reminded me of you.
    How many games would have been safed (or at least fully released) if they had considered your input, rather than seeing you as "that guy who spoke up on our private internet space without being asked"?

    The way Slappy is always calling Caspien out makes him some kind of *ist. Maybe a WASPist :)
    Dakeru
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,474
    Albatroes said:
    I'm thinking something crazy but what if they aren't really planning to make a game?
    See, I totally think he believes what he says.  It’s just been pure incompetence and not an intentional scam IMHO.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,902
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    AnOldFart

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 Member UncommonPosts: 335
    vaporware.....

    They just couldn't get the funding they needed. Time to pack it in. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,474
    Kyleran said:
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    I expect people to do what they say they will do.  That goes for MJ as well as Caspien.  The difference is that MJ is giving refunds to people and Caspien is just holding sale after sale.  But heck if someone is pissed about CU being delayed they should go get their refund.   Try that with CoE and let me know how it goes.

    That also applies to "going dark".  Sorry, but there needs to be some accountability.  You can't just "go dark" when you have taken people's money, refuse refunds and are literally years late on your delivery.  
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • daarcodaarco Member UncommonPosts: 4,275
    Relax, either it will be released sometime or it will not.
    People may or may not freely invest some money into something they belive in.
    Not much to argue about.

    Kyleran[Deleted User]mystichazeCheshireCatt24
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,902
    edited July 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    I expect people to do what they say they will do.  That goes for MJ as well as Caspien.  The difference is that MJ is giving refunds to people and Caspien is just holding sale after sale.  But heck if someone is pissed about CU being delayed they should go get their refund.   Try that with CoE and let me know how it goes.

    That also applies to "going dark".  Sorry, but there needs to be some accountability.  You can't just "go dark" when you have taken people's money, refuse refunds and are literally years late on your delivery.  
    Actually, legally he can....as long as there is some evidence of continuing activity, he is meeting KS's terms. 

    As for sales in his store,  he clearly states no refunds.

    Refunds are nice to have, but optional except where required by law.l
    GdemamiAnOldFart

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Mike-McQueenMike-McQueen Member UncommonPosts: 263
    The Chronicle 2.0

    I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,100
    The major problem with this game has been from day 1...deceptive practices.

    A video game that involves money NEEDS to be 100% fair across the board,that pretty much eliminates now a day standards for crowd funding.

    If it was done totally honest,no perks for being a backer and NO cash shop,i might have stayed interested.
    The whole idea of a crowd funded game is you GIVE money because you feel it is worth it and NOT a simple cash shop purchase to one up on other potential customers.

    The combination that is crowd funded gaming is deception to entice,bait in people to give them money and the result is a sloppy system/design that is based on GUESSING how much money will be there.
    Crowd funding is imo a definitive answer to FAIL,look at SC,that amount of crowd funding by Robert's own words is worth about 2-5x,so we are talking 300+ million and he has a game that looks like an over night Indie project.Crowd funding can NOT work,it is a terrible idea that is simply there to scam people out of their money.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,474
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    I expect people to do what they say they will do.  That goes for MJ as well as Caspien.  The difference is that MJ is giving refunds to people and Caspien is just holding sale after sale.  But heck if someone is pissed about CU being delayed they should go get their refund.   Try that with CoE and let me know how it goes.

    That also applies to "going dark".  Sorry, but there needs to be some accountability.  You can't just "go dark" when you have taken people's money, refuse refunds and are literally years late on your delivery.  
    Actually, legally he can....as long as there is some evidence of continuing activity, he is meeting KS's terms. 

    As for sales in his store,  he clearly states no refunds.

    Refunds are nice to have, but optional except where required by law.l
    Yeah.. I understand there is no law requiring it.  Simply saying that when you take $4.6M in people's money (and won't give it back) and are so ridiculously behind schedule that there needs to be some sort of accountability.  Going Dark is just IMHO the absolutely worst thing you can do.
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,902
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Might surprise some here, but I think Caspian should just stay dark on the overall timeline.

    None of us are great at predicting the future, but we can be more accurate in near term events.

    He should publish a clear timeline for key deliverables in the next 3 to 6 months, no further.

    They should be very realistic, based on all known risks, and I'd recommend using only the pessimistic view.

    Mark Jacobs missed the July 4th beta one after about a two year delay on it.  Unforseen events and code quality issues as reasons, perhaps valid,  maybe not.

    Point is if an experienced industry vet known for being more honest and open than most struggles after 5 plus years to hit even one date, much less publish a full delivery time line why would we expect JW to be able to?

    BTW, Mark went mostly dark on times several years ago, wasn't until this past Jan he gave everyone the July date with a promise of release by end of 2019 if all went well. 



    I expect people to do what they say they will do.  That goes for MJ as well as Caspien.  The difference is that MJ is giving refunds to people and Caspien is just holding sale after sale.  But heck if someone is pissed about CU being delayed they should go get their refund.   Try that with CoE and let me know how it goes.

    That also applies to "going dark".  Sorry, but there needs to be some accountability.  You can't just "go dark" when you have taken people's money, refuse refunds and are literally years late on your delivery.  
    Actually, legally he can....as long as there is some evidence of continuing activity, he is meeting KS's terms. 

    As for sales in his store,  he clearly states no refunds.

    Refunds are nice to have, but optional except where required by law.l
    Yeah.. I understand there is no law requiring it.  Simply saying that when you take $4.6M in people's money (and won't give it back) and are so ridiculously behind schedule that there needs to be some sort of accountability.  Going Dark is just IMHO the absolutely worst thing you can do.
    Not if there isn't any good news to tell.

    ;)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited July 2018
    He can go dark so long as the timeline doesn't get to the point where it unfairly prejudices backers.  It's actually a question that hasn't really been answered by the courts yet.  At what point is a timeline so grossly inaccurate as to constitute misleading backers into pledging based on false information?
    Gdemami

    image
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,333
    He can go dark so long as the timeline doesn't get to the point where it unfairly prejudices backers.  It's actually a question that hasn't really been answered by the courts yet.  At what point is a timeline so grossly inaccurate as to constitute misleading backers into pledging based on false information?
    energizer bunny GIFenergizer bunny 90s GIF
    MadFrenchie

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

    Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/ 

  • FangrimFangrim Member UncommonPosts: 616
    The game where the backers die of old age before it's released. Why anyone would want to play an MMORPG with ageing and permanent death in it is beyond me anyway.


    image

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,817
    Oh look.. Slapshot it pissing on CoE again.. is it Tuesday already?
    [Deleted User]Slapshot1188Kyleran
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • InteritusInteritus Member UncommonPosts: 236
    Honestly most kickstarter games (MMO or not) go past their schedule.   There are certainly aspects of CoE that you could argue if they are achievable with the resources they have. Thus asking Caspian to be realistic. But going after the schedule being wrong is a lazy fight.
    [Deleted User]
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,669
    Albatroes said:
    I'm thinking something crazy but what if they aren't really planning to make a game?
    See, I totally think he believes what he says.  It’s just been pure incompetence and not an intentional scam IMHO.
    Idk man. All these "delays" and not being completely upfront about what the KS was actually for until a later date sends too many signals to me, like that guy who "tried" to develop divergence online or whatever. That guy opened up a KS like once a year or something, getting between 50-100k each time then claiming he couldn't "finish" the project, even going as far to change the name once or twice to get money from gullibles. To me, Caspien is just trying to ride this thing out as long as he can until there's nothing left to milk.
    Gdemami
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    KS MMO.
    At the very least massive delays are to be expected. Provided we ever see a full game at all.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Albatroes said:
    Albatroes said:
    I'm thinking something crazy but what if they aren't really planning to make a game?
    See, I totally think he believes what he says.  It’s just been pure incompetence and not an intentional scam IMHO.
    Idk man. All these "delays" and not being completely upfront about what the KS was actually for until a later date sends too many signals to me, like that guy who "tried" to develop divergence online or whatever. That guy opened up a KS like once a year or something, getting between 50-100k each time then claiming he couldn't "finish" the project, even going as far to change the name once or twice to get money from gullibles. To me, Caspien is just trying to ride this thing out as long as he can until there's nothing left to milk.
    I'm with Slap on this one.

    I have absolutely no faith in the CoE project, but I fully believe that Caspien genuinely wants to make the game and is passionate about it.

    I think he's just completely in over his head and has no clue what he's doing or how to actually lead such a big project.(read: incompetent)

    I think he's a delusional dreamer, but that he's (trying to)following that dream :persevere:
    craftseekerShaighGdemamiOctagon7711
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,474
    Lokero said:
    Albatroes said:
    Albatroes said:
    I'm thinking something crazy but what if they aren't really planning to make a game?
    See, I totally think he believes what he says.  It’s just been pure incompetence and not an intentional scam IMHO.
    Idk man. All these "delays" and not being completely upfront about what the KS was actually for until a later date sends too many signals to me, like that guy who "tried" to develop divergence online or whatever. That guy opened up a KS like once a year or something, getting between 50-100k each time then claiming he couldn't "finish" the project, even going as far to change the name once or twice to get money from gullibles. To me, Caspien is just trying to ride this thing out as long as he can until there's nothing left to milk.
    I'm with Slap on this one.

    I have absolutely no faith in the CoE project, but I fully believe that Caspien genuinely wants to make the game and is passionate about it.

    I think he's just completely in over his head and has no clue what he's doing or how to actually lead such a big project.(read: incompetent)

    I think he's a delusional dreamer, but that he's (trying to)following that dream :persevere:
    Yup.  IMHO the root problem is his inability to admit reality.  I think a perfect example was the SpatialOS thing.  One month he’s talking about how great it is and then a month or two later he announces that they had to ditch it, but not to worry because he had already replaced most of its functionality with off the shelf stuff. This was the software he called the fabric the game was built on.  It was announced as the answer to all doubters, yet no big deal to replace it.  

    It was his chance to just come clean.  Now here we are...7-8 months later... still waiting on the start of the pre-Alpha VoxElyria.  Still touting the line that All Is Well... just like the Captain of the Titanic. He reminds me of Brad McQuaid in many ways.  Some folks are just not meant to be the CEO. Let them dream, but let someone else run the business.


    PS- Welcome back Mystic
    pantaroGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

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