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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    edited July 2018
    shava said:
    In a mature gaming industry -- like futbol or American football or world poker say, lol, the fans sometimes even celebrate the abuse and reticence of management, coaches, players and various. And generally the owners consider their assets far more valuable than p***ing and moaning fans, who will never be satisfied.

    Boston fans went so far as to complain that there were too many blacks on the championship Celtics, back when, and broke into a player's home, trashed it, crapped on the rug, spray painted racist graffiti on his living room walls.

    Oddly, management did not react by firing the player, even though he had a reputation for being unlikeable. He was leading a championship team.

    The management didn't see it as being about race but about performance. The attack vector was expressed through race. Had he been fired, or praised, it would have been on his performance. Not his physiology, or the fans' opinions of it.

    Dear gamergate, the world does not revolve around your outrage. Grow a healthy pear shaped situational response, and realize that this is not any more a real battleground on these forums than any game world.

    Go do something real. Ideally not harassing women or people you perceive as defending them disproportionately. If you want to organize for men's rights, may I recommend leaving the PC and finding a political organization or nonprofit in meat space that will effect real change. This is not the venue to make change.

    Online you are all steam and no steam engine. It does not represent you well to come off so shrill. Women learned decades ago that flaming got you shut down, yes even fired. Why do you assume it works better for men when you yourselves place yourselves in the inferior victimized position, struggling for fair recognition, just as feminists have been forever?

    Take a few notes from the more successful organizing tactics of your grandmothers, mothers, and older sisters. After all, women's rights are human rights, and we want you to come around to a secure, strong, well articulated position, free of fear and anxiety.
    Nice fake boogieman you got there.

    I realise that victimhood is a desired state of mind for certain people, but unfortunately this is a clear cut case of female privilege trumping actual events.

    Do you know what's sexist? That we talk about Price and ignore Frey completely.

    Human rights are for places like Iran, where a woman was sent to 20 years in prison for dancing in social media. Yet here we are, talking about a privileged western individual that acted like a lord towards peasants and called the hate mob when someone dared to utter a slight disagreement.

    (Edit: Are you saying with the initial example that she is bad at her actual job?)
    BasherXPhryysquare21
  • DranmarthDranmarth Member UncommonPosts: 57
    She shouldn't have been fired for this. She should have been fired months ago when she praised the fact that a person died of cancer.

    If this situation was in a bubble on its own, she would have just had a slap on the wrist and asked to apologize for blowing up on a customer. This was just the tip of the iceberg.

    The nicest thing I can say about Jessica Price is I'm glad she's no longer around to keep doing harm.
    BasherXLackingMMOysquare21
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,065
    Arenanet is quite heavy handed regarding toxicity in their forums and game.
    It is nice to know they apply the same standards to themselves.
    LeiloniPhryysquare21

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,369
    mmrv said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    I think most of us would agree with you, unfortunately its the wacko leftists who started these witch hunts demanding people be fired for saying things they deemed "insensitive". you are late to the game and its been a one sided hackfest with all the PC lefties constantly demanding people be fired finally one of their own has been axed for it and they lost their mind.

    Its a really sick state of affairs in the west right now primarily because of these zealots on the left, luckily i think they have gone so far that people are starting to rebel. I can name you 20 people who lost their jobs who said things on twitter/facebook not even on work accounts because the left activists.

    So please aim your rhetoric at the people responsible for this atmosphere.
    Hey... I'm all for freedom

    I'd want to fire your ass for just sitting on the shitter too long. 

    Everything you do or say can have repercussions and its been that way since the dawn of time. Reality is that there has never been freedom of speech.

    Just go to your local bar and see how fast freedom of speech can get you punched in the face ;)

    The nutty right is just as fucked up as the loonie left. The majority knows that the middle is the place to be.

    Balance. 
    EponyxDamorMadFrenchieTorvalLackingMMOFlyByKnightYashaXvandal5627ysquare21

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,854
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    Words start wars, words get people killed, words tear families apart, the sticks and stones thing is a lie.

    Don't be wilfully obtuse, if Price had acted like that in the "real world" she would have ended up in a fight, probably get punched or thrown out of a club, lost friends etc. Don't make this about something else, free speech REALLY isn't what you think it is. Speech is part of our behavior and we are judged by it, all of us, in every society, in every country, and we always have been.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    MadFrenchieYashaX
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 4,706

    SBFord said:

    Since I get to read this stuff as I post it, all I can say is nicely done @billmurphy !



    My favorite comment in all of this that, I believe, should be shouted from the rooftops:



    "I’ve spoken with several former employees of ArenaNet and they’ve all told me the same thing: MO is not the hero Guild Wars fans make him out to be. Quite often, it’s the opposite: he’s a founder and the company president, but there’s a reason he’s the only founder left at the company. There’s a reason many of the people who were responsible for the sky-high dreams of Guild Wars 2 left for other studios. There’s a reason that MO’s the only founder left."



    I'd sure like to know those reasons. My guess is that they are varied and MO is only a tangential reason.
    YashaX
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 4,706
    edited July 2018

    Elquin said:

    There was nothing in his critique to illicit "clapping back". She could have handled the situation responsibly, but chose not to and in doing so, put ArenaNet in a bad position. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It could have been handled differently, but in the end... There's only one person who is responsible for what happened and that's JP.



    My opinion is that they should have been forced to publicly apologize and given a month off unpaid. It does sound like the CEO lost his shit over this and overreacted. JP seems to be doubling down on her excuses though so maybe it's best that she was fired. I can't see her apologizing for overreacting to criticism or for bringing gender into something where it didn't belong.
    Post edited by FrodoFragins on
    Phry
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    mmrv said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    I think most of us would agree with you, unfortunately its the wacko leftists who started these witch hunts demanding people be fired for saying things they deemed "insensitive". you are late to the game and its been a one sided hackfest with all the PC lefties constantly demanding people be fired finally one of their own has been axed for it and they lost their mind.

    Its a really sick state of affairs in the west right now primarily because of these zealots on the left, luckily i think they have gone so far that people are starting to rebel. I can name you 20 people who lost their jobs who said things on twitter/facebook not even on work accounts because the left activists.

    So please aim your rhetoric at the people responsible for this atmosphere.
    Lmao.

    image
  • AhnogAhnog Member UncommonPosts: 240
    Your so wrong Bill. She deserved to be fired for disrespecting the player base.
    BasherXWylfYashaXysquare21

    Ahnog

    Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.

  • JimWraithJimWraith Member UncommonPosts: 127
    edited July 2018
    This was the first article I saw on the matter:

    http://www.pointandclickbait.com/2018/07/arenanet-mike-obrien-official-statement/

    Regardless of what actually happened this makes Mike O'Brien look like a total douche bag.
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    edited July 2018
    JimWraith said:
    This was the first article I saw on the matter:

    http://www.pointandclickbait.com/2018/07/arenanet-mike-obrien-official-statement/

    Regardless of what actually happened this makes Mike O'Brien look like a total douche bag.
    As far as comedy goes, this was not funny.

    Here's the actual statement:

        Jessica had identified herself as an ArenaNet employee on Reddit and Twitter, had been discussing Episode 3 storytelling with fans on Reddit, then had written a 25-part tweet about how we tell stories in MMOs, relating it back to Episode 3. She was representing the company. The expectation was to behave professionally and respectfully, or at least walk away. Instead, she attacked.

    Concerns have been publicly raised that she was responding to harassment. It’s not my place to tell employees when they should or shouldn’t feel harassed. In this case, however, our employees could have chosen not to engage, and they could have brought the issue to the company, whereby we would have done everything we could to protect them.

    We won’t tolerate harassment. When an employee feels harassed, we want them to bring the issue to us, so that we can protect the employee, deal with the issue, and use it to speak to the larger issue of harassment.

    Whatever Jessica and Peter felt internally about the situation, this was objectively a customer engaging us respectfully and professionally, presenting a suggestion for our game. Any response from our company needed to be respectful and professional. A perceived slight doesn’t give us license to attack.

    We’ve all dedicated our careers to entertaining people, to making games for the purpose of delighting those who play them. We generally have a wonderful relationship with our community, and that’s a point of pride for us. We want to hear from our players. It’s not acceptable that an attempted interaction with our company — in this case a polite game suggestion — would be met with open hostility and derision from us. That sets a chilling precedent.

    The tweets were made on July 4, when the studio was closed for the holiday. We were aware of them that day, and decided we’d need to take action in the morning. The fact that the community’s anger was escalating on July 5 could make it look like our action was a response to the community’s anger. But that wasn’t the case. We took action as soon as we practicably could.

    I hate to let an employee go, and I wish the best for Jessica and Peter, as for any former employee, in whatever they choose to do next.

    Whatever you thought of the tweets, Jessica and Peter were also part of the team that brought you the kidnapping scene in Episode 1, which was a wonderfully well-executed scene. That’s how I want to remember their time at ArenaNet.

    PhryBekkrYashaXysquare21
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,262
    edited July 2018
    Leiloni said:
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    A fine example of how far out of whack political correctness has gone. Just proving my point.
    This isn't about political correctness. It's just about one person being very toxic and being subject to the obvious consequences of that. She wasn't even right in what she said.

    I'm not excusing her behaviour or saying she was right. I'm saying she has a right to say what she wants in her own free time. However offensive, right or wrong.

    No company or employer should have the power to fire somebody who is on their own time, outside of company hours and not acting in an official capacity for that company, for anything they say or do.

    Yes she absolutely has that right. That's why she isn't in jail right now and only lost her job. But companies also have a lot of leeway in what reasons they do - or don't - have for firing someone. Your beef is with employment laws in the US, not with free speech laws. This isn't a free speech matter. I agree that it's scary that people can be fired for what they say and do outside of work. But that's a different subject than what you're getting angry over.
    MadFrenchiePhryRhoklawysquare21
  • cronius77cronius77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,651
    Wow, so many people to reply to. So many people being triggered. One could be forgiven for thinking they were all loony lefty snowflakes, because we all know they're the enemies of free speech.

    Unfortunately it's getting on towards 1 am here in good old blighty and I want to see who else has abandoned Theresa the appeaser, the Brexit betrayer. So I'll say goodnight to all and don't have collective apoplexy.
    lol wow dude you took a debate about some girl popping off at the mouth and turned it completely into a red vs blue argument. If anyone's triggered here it's definitely you. I guess you agree with all the videos out there also of idiots using racial slurs towards people , I guess according to your thought process they should just tough it up and stand for that also right? This woman spewed off banter that made the company look bad if they didn't do anything about it. You turned this into some political correctness argument that doesn't exist. What it boils down to is when you disrespect others on social media you can get canned. It's no different than teachers being fired for drunk pics or talking trash on their facebooks. If you have a high profile job which is viral , you have to use your judgement on what you post.
    PhryAeanderYashaXMadFrenchieThreatlevel0vandal5627ysquare21
  • angaelsangaels Member UncommonPosts: 44
    Dragging MO's name through the mud when I haven't heard anything negative about him seems reaching. Yes he is the final founder as they could not agree how to move forward from GW, which Im sure was tough for all and there was some tough feelings about it all around.. But Ive been with GW from the beginning and Ive not heard major negativity that seems to come from this article..

    It almost seems that by mentioning the short-comings of one person it is ideal to bring down another to balance the scales even if it is here-say.. Which IMHO seems wrong.
    YashaXLeiloniysquare21
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,570
    cronius77 said:
    Wow, so many people to reply to. So many people being triggered. One could be forgiven for thinking they were all loony lefty snowflakes, because we all know they're the enemies of free speech.

    Unfortunately it's getting on towards 1 am here in good old blighty and I want to see who else has abandoned Theresa the appeaser, the Brexit betrayer. So I'll say goodnight to all and don't have collective apoplexy.
    lol wow dude you took a debate about some girl popping off at the mouth and turned it completely into a red vs blue argument. If anyone's triggered here it's definitely you. I guess you agree with all the videos out there also of idiots using racial slurs towards people , I guess according to your thought process they should just tough it up and stand for that also right? This woman spewed off banter that made the company look bad if they didn't do anything about it. You turned this into some political correctness argument that doesn't exist. What it boils down to is when you disrespect others on social media you can get canned. It's no different than teachers being fired for drunk pics or talking trash on their facebooks. If you have a high profile job which is viral , you have to use your judgement on what you post.
    Got it in one. Yes, I think they should suck it up. It's words not a smack in the mouth. And it's not red vs blue, at least not in my opinion. You either believe in free speech or you oppose it, regardless of where you fall on the political compass.

    I'm neither red nor blue according to the last result I had on a political compass test. I'm very much "in the middle".

    In yet another example used by someone, why the fuck should a teacher get fired for being drunk? So what if he was on facebook. What if he never took the photo, what if it was his mates? He's never allowed to get shitfaced just because he's a teacher?

    The world has gone mad, I tell you.
    PhryAeanderMadFrenchie
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 1,057
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    If you don't believe an employee of the company can, through words alone, cause very real negative repercussions for their company that the company would have a vested interest in protecting against, then I have to hope you never work for the company I work for.
    Once again this is just another example showing that PC has gone beyond the pale. It shouldn't even be an issue but because of unchecked political correctness, running amok, we find this atmosphere in which fear of consequences forces people to act (over react) on the slightest perceived offense.

    You should not have to fear for your job because something you say may have repercussions on your company, not if you don't speak for them officially. This is the insanity of political correctness.
    I agree with what you are saying to a point - but before the term "political correctness" was coined, people were fired from work for actions outside of work.  There are huge sections of various titles within the U.S. Code specifically about it relating to government employees of various types in various ways as one set of proof, and very old cases in the US as another.

    I am against PC nonsense, and for free speech rights.  I am also against employees being fired for actions outside of work generally - with reasonable and logical exceptions.   

    I get work calls outside of work.  I'm salaried and its part of the job.  The people I deal with aren't customer's of my company, but I see anyone I deal with in my official work role as a customer.  I would never think about verbally assaulting any of them.  And I certainly would fire her, or any employee, that was going out of her way to cause harm and lose to her employer.  

    I don't have free speech in my official role at work.  I doubt she is an hourly employee.  In this case, since she failed to either disengage, and didn't accept his blatant and humble attempt to deescalate the situation, but went out of her way to escalate it - what recourse does the company have?

    This isn't about free speech or free thinking or PC anything.  Its about a fanatical ideolog flying off the handles while biting the hand that feeds her, and that hand, reasonably and rationally, deciding to no longer feed her.  

    Its hard to make the argument you are anti-PC, pro-free speech, and pro-free thinking - while in the same breath saying a company should be forced to employee people directly harming the company.  She didn't get fired for going to some hate-cult gathering and doing hate-cult things outside of work.  This is directly related to work in a very public arena.  

    If she was fired for her political views and there wasn't a clear and direct link to work, and a clear and obvious breach of the universal basic rule of don't go nuts on a customer that doesn't deserve it that everyone everywhere has to live by, the majority of people would be defending her.  

    If you owned a business, and an employee went nuts of a customer that did nothing to deserve it, and this situation was very public and very visible, what would you do?  Just have no standards and say fuck it?  You wouldn't have a company for long, and the rest of your employees wouldn't have jobs.  But I'd be interested in hearing how you think this should have been handled, while keeping in mind your actions impact not just the crazy lady, but the rest of your employees, work culture and expectations, your angry community that pays the bills, etc.
    vandal5627Warhawke80Leiloniysquare21
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,120
    went nuts ?lmao umm yeah ok.

    A customer that did nothing?The very first thing they did was question her line of work in the game,that is like a customer walking into Wallmart and saying to the manager.."the managing in this store really sucks".
    I could take it one step further,try walking into a cop shop and telling them the cops in this city are terrible at their job and keep going on about it with more insults.I guarantee you that within a short time frame they might actually warn you of being arrested if you keep it up and actually forcefully escort you out of the cop shop.

    We have seen the exact same thing on this site,Bill was questioned about his comments on Destiny 2 and he sort of "went off"did he not?

    What i have seen the past 10 years or so is a "movement" people seem to need more and more leverage on insulting others and gaining some kind of power to take actions against others.Everything from so called cyber bullying to plain old bullying,people will take literally ANY kind of speech they don't like and call it bullying or trolling.It has basically become a society of spoiled brats and cry babies,you can only say something about me if it is pampering or telling me how great i am.
    PhryXasapisDakeruJeffSpicoliBekkrYashaXGaendricRain_Deathravenvandal5627Leiloniand 1 other.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Wizardry said:
    went nuts ?lmao umm yeah ok.

    A customer that did nothing?The very first thing they did was question her line of work in the game,that is like a customer walking into Wallmart and saying to the manager.."the managing in this store really sucks".
    I could take it one step further,try walking into a cop shop and telling them the cops in this city are terrible at their job and keep going on about it with more insults.I guarantee you that within a short time frame they might actually warn you of being arrested if you keep it up and actually forcefully escort you out of the cop shop.

    We have seen the exact same thing on this site,Bill was questioned about his comments on Destiny 2 and he sort of "went off"did he not?

    What i have seen the past 10 years or so is a "movement" people seem to need more and more leverage on insulting others and gaining some kind of power to take actions against others.Everything from so called cyber bullying to plain old bullying,people will take literally ANY kind of speech they don't like and call it bullying or trolling.It has basically become a society of spoiled brats and cry babies,you can only say something about me if it is pampering or telling me how great i am.
    Probably one of the least relevent arguments made, from what you have said so far i would have to believe you have probably been reading something written by Kotaku etc. a respectable fount of information if there ever was, not. There have been numerous videos put out that contain more than a few nuggets of actual facts, but rather than list them all, here's the latest one from Layman gaming, it includes the statement from Mike Obrian of Arenanet.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVzASgiwkhs
    YashaXvandal5627ysquare21
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    It's quite clear when somebody is completely uninformed about the situation (Wizardry in this case) and just makes a generic argument regarding the situation.
    YashaXvandal5627Warhawke80ysquare21
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Xasapis said:
    It's quite clear when somebody is completely uninformed about the situation (Wizardry in this case) and just makes a generic argument regarding the situation.
    There are conflicting stories going around at the moment, and some of the media sites are playing a little fast and loose with the truth, same ones that did during #gamergate rather unsurprisingly. I guess thats why i tend to use this website rather than theirs ;)
    YashaX
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,813
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.


    For me when people start talking about responding to an employees bad behaviour with "additional training" it means they want to brush the problem under the carpet.

    We can sum up AN's options rather more succinctly than above, they either kept it in house doing nothing about it, or fired someone and did something about it.

    To be honest when I think of how I feel about the cesspool that is Twitter, deleting social media accounts because of the implications of this case can be seen as a positive, not like the article which sees it as a negative. Having said that rather than responding to Twitter drama with your own drama, how about just making your Twitter private?

    I would also question why this is happening, and note that many professionals now have their social media following as effectively part of their CV. Entertainment is the frontrunner in this, but it appears in other areas like politics. So effectively they are putting their job online and any questioning of their work effects their work reputation. This is why I think we see some people giving over the top responses to any critique what so ever.

    Certainly it is down to the individual, they must be responsible, but I think social media is creating a situation where professionals feel a need to defend what is effectively their jobs.

    Leiloni

     25 Agrees

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  • marksteelemarksteele Member UncommonPosts: 60
    Wizardry said:
    went nuts ?lmao umm yeah ok.

    A customer that did nothing?The very first thing they did was question her line of work in the game,that is like a customer walking into Wallmart and saying to the manager.."the managing in this store really sucks".
    I could take it one step further,try walking into a cop shop and telling them the cops in this city are terrible at their job and keep going on about it with more insults.I guarantee you that within a short time frame they might actually warn you of being arrested if you keep it up and actually forcefully escort you out of the cop shop.

    We have seen the exact same thing on this site,Bill was questioned about his comments on Destiny 2 and he sort of "went off"did he not?

    What i have seen the past 10 years or so is a "movement" people seem to need more and more leverage on insulting others and gaining some kind of power to take actions against others.Everything from so called cyber bullying to plain old bullying,people will take literally ANY kind of speech they don't like and call it bullying or trolling.It has basically become a society of spoiled brats and cry babies,you can only say something about me if it is pampering or telling me how great i am.
    This analogy is entirely off-base. A better analogy would be the police speaking out about the problems with a new policing campaign and a community activist speaking at the same meeting offering ideas and criticism. The door was open for feedback the moment the police made a public statement. 

    It's not like DeroirGaming randomly went up and randomly broke out into a discussion about how Jessica is doing her job wrong. Jessica posted an opinion on a public medium, Deroir respectfully offered his opinion, Jessica responded with attacking him and turned it into a piece about how Deroir was only commenting because she was a women. 
  • BekkrBekkr Member UncommonPosts: 32
    JimWraith said:
    This was the first article I saw on the matter:

    http://www.pointandclickbait.com/2018/07/arenanet-mike-obrien-official-statement/

    Regardless of what actually happened this makes Mike O'Brien look like a total douche bag.
    That article is incredibly stupid. I think they were going for Onion-style satire, but they missed the mark by about as much as one could.

    |The problem with the youth of today is that one is no longer part of it. -Salvador Dali|

  • catofmanycatofmany Member UncommonPosts: 30
    Wow, the responses here are just...

    There is a reason i don't call myself a gamer. And this just reeks of it.
    PhryDakeruAeanderElquinFrodoFraginsvandal5627ysquare21
  • Rain_DeathravenRain_Deathraven Member UncommonPosts: 87
    I just can't believe that respectful gaming sites like Kotaku , mmorpg ....try to defend this human being (if i say woman maybe some people will say i'm sexist)
    YashaXThreatlevel0Leiloniysquare21
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