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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • LocoGunner71LocoGunner71 Member UncommonPosts: 27
    edited July 2018
    Price got what she deserved, should be clear that she was representing the company and talking to the customers on her personal twitter which is gonna get 99% a response from said customers, she implying it was off the clock and it was private etc is bullcrap denial from her and her whiteknights part, maybe she was tired (in general) maybe she was having a wahmen's rant IRL at the same moment (by her callout of being a female attacked online, she should contact Bully Hunters, lol) maybe she was PMSing, anyway she should have just put down her device and cool off, now she was in her right not to, so now swallow the consequences, btw it was not her first twitter "oops" if you remember her twitt about the streamer who died (dont remember the name) so maybe she liked to be a twitter ogre xD

    Anyway my opinion is ANET did the right thing, and I hope they cut their advertising with the media outlets calling them "wrong" but hey, maybe one of those reporters start calling ANET names and get the boot, also that would be so funny.

    Fries got caught in the middle of something for doing a silly thing while drunk, like many bigger and lesser employees have done in the past, "enjoy mate!", hope he learns the lesson: if you step on shit you gonna stink. Yet your article is not centered on Fries but Price, plus you go on passively (or not so much) attack the man who fired them, maybe you media guys should downstep on your feminist impulses, although I understand you need to earn your paycheck somehow.

    Your ending comment is a falacy, a shitty article in general
    MisterZebubYashaXblamo2000ysquare21
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited July 2018
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    If you don't believe an employee of the company can, through words alone, cause very real negative repercussions for their company that the company would have a vested interest in protecting against, then I have to hope you never work for the company I work for.
    YashaXysquare21

    image
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,566
    Leiloni said:
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    A fine example of how far out of whack political correctness has gone. Just proving my point.
    This isn't about political correctness. It's just about one person being very toxic and being subject to the obvious consequences of that. She wasn't even right in what she said.
    Since when has being right had anything to do with having an opinion.

    She didn't work in PR or as a community manager, she was a dev, on her private twitter. Anyone with half a brain cell should realise that anything posted was her personal opinion and nothing to do with Anet.

    I'm not excusing her behaviour or saying she was right. I'm saying she has a right to say what she wants in her own free time. However offensive, right or wrong.

    No company or employer should have the power to fire somebody who is on their own time, outside of company hours and not acting in an official capacity for that company, for anything they say or do.

    It shouldn't matter how toxic she was, she has that right, or she should if PC wasn't eroding free speech. And there shouldn't be any consequences, other than people not bothering to follow her on twitter.

    If she wants to go on some feminist rant and tell everyone to eat shit and die for being misogynist douchebags for no reason, she should have that right. Sarkeesian's made a career out of that. And no, she shouldn't get fired for it. It shouldn't reflect on Anet at all. It's her personal twitter account. This is common sense, it's not hard to grasp.

    The fact that Anet felt they needed to act, that someone said a court would find this grounds for termination, just proves how far PC has gone beyond reason.

    If we keep going the way we are then pretty soon it will be "A brave new world".
    Sooo to be clear, you fully support things like trumps "Grab them by the pussy" statement? It was made in private on his own time. I know this is only tangentially related, I just wanted to check if you were a hypocrite or not. 

    That would depend if he then acted on that statement. If it's said in a private conversation, yeah that's fine. I've said worse in private with my mates but I've never actually done any of those things. That would be assault.

    You've never told a rude joke? Or said something off colour about the opposite sex with your friends? Everyone does this shit, we all know it, regardless of gender.

    Like I said, it's one thing to say it, it's something quite different to do it. I just don't understand how people can get so wound up over a bunch of words. I mean, over sensitive just doesn't even come close. People really need thicker skins.

    Talk about pussies.
    MadFrenchieEponyxDamorLeiloniysquare21
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,566
    Xasapis said:
    Ungood said:
    For anyone wondering, Game Journalist, need to stay on the good side with developers and be their cheering section if they expect to get any personal relations with them. 

    See, just like all the gamers are crying about how Price was mean the client, keep in mind that a Games Journalist, looking for insider info, the Developers are their client as well as the gaming public, and what did we all just learn from this fiasco kids?

    That's right.. do not speak ill of your clients..


    Only if they are paid shills for said developers.

    Otherwise their readers are and have always been their clients.

    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    So if somebody called you a rapist, it's just words and not a life destroying accusation?

    That depends, are they calling me a rapist as an insult or accusing me of rape? If it was an insult, so what. If it was an accusation in earnest then that would be another matter.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Xasapis said:
    Ungood said:
    For anyone wondering, Game Journalist, need to stay on the good side with developers and be their cheering section if they expect to get any personal relations with them. 

    See, just like all the gamers are crying about how Price was mean the client, keep in mind that a Games Journalist, looking for insider info, the Developers are their client as well as the gaming public, and what did we all just learn from this fiasco kids?

    That's right.. do not speak ill of your clients..


    Only if they are paid shills for said developers.

    Otherwise their readers are and have always been their clients.

    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    So if somebody called you a rapist, it's just words and not a life destroying accusation?

    That depends, are they calling me a rapist as an insult or accusing me of rape? If it was an insult, so what. If it was an accusation in earnest then that would be another matter.
    Considering she retweeted him to try and publicly shame him as a misogynist, I'd say she accused him.  Again, quite publicly.
    YashaXblamo2000PhryRain_Deathravenysquare21

    image
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,503
    Leiloni said:
    cronius77 said:
    I agree 100% with Bill. I'm sick to the back teeth with all the PC bullshit we get force fed day in and day out. What happened to free speech? What happened to being entitled to an opinion?

    If people are offended by something someone says they can either respond with a counter argument, ignore it, or just toughen the fuck up and stop whining about the mean person who said something nasty.

    So tired of all these whining fucktards. And for someone to be fired over something so trivial speaks volumes about how far PC has gone beyond the bounds of sanity.
    you do realize you just described exactly what happened except you took the opposite stance? She's the one that got all butthurt because someone criticized her work. She's the one then that lashed out and attacked some guy and turned it into some sort of sexism argument. She got fired for taking it to an entirely new level by name calling. If she would of kept it civil, heated or not she would probably still have a job. She also made a nasty comment about being glad someone was dead so I'm not sure how you can argue this woman didn't deserve to be fired when she has arenanet plastered on her twitter account talking all her garbage.
      No. IGNORE IT. Who gives a shit? We'll all be dead in a 100 years so who cares? The fact that she was canned is BS, PC bollocks. She's entitled to her opinion and should be accorded the freedom to voice it as she wishes, regardless of whether or not it's "offensive". Keep it civil? Where's the fun in that? Rant on, vent that anger, get it out of your system. So what if she took off on one? Seriously, where's the harm? I don't buy into this verbal assault crap the loony left have invented either. I'm more of a "sticks and stones" kinda guy. It's just words.

    The TB comment, I completely disagree with but guess what? She's entitled to her opinion, however horrendous we may find it.

    I stand by my initial post. This is just another case of political correctness gone mad. There's a difference between voicing a personal opinion and speaking for a company. Her twitter may have shown she worked at Anet, but her twitter was her own personal account, she was clearly speaking personally.

    Anet, or any other company, should not have the right to fire someone for voicing an opinion in their own time when they don't represent the company officially. If Anet were worried about PR, a simple statement that her opinion didn't reflect the company's opinion would solve that.

    The whole PC movement has gone too far, and it's been that way for years. People are scared to voice an honest opinion now in case they get in trouble. It's bollocks. What's next? Fucking thought police?

    People should be able to say what they think, regardless. If you don't like it, grow a thicker skin, grow some balls and toughen the fuck up.

    No, her direct link to the company on her account means her words can have a very real adverse effect on the company itself.  That alone is reason enough for most courts to find a firing such as this warranted.
    A fine example of how far out of whack political correctness has gone. Just proving my point.
    This isn't about political correctness. It's just about one person being very toxic and being subject to the obvious consequences of that. She wasn't even right in what she said.
    Since when has being right had anything to do with having an opinion.

    She didn't work in PR or as a community manager, she was a dev, on her private twitter. Anyone with half a brain cell should realise that anything posted was her personal opinion and nothing to do with Anet.

    I'm not excusing her behaviour or saying she was right. I'm saying she has a right to say what she wants in her own free time. However offensive, right or wrong.

    No company or employer should have the power to fire somebody who is on their own time, outside of company hours and not acting in an official capacity for that company, for anything they say or do.

    It shouldn't matter how toxic she was, she has that right, or she should if PC wasn't eroding free speech. And there shouldn't be any consequences, other than people not bothering to follow her on twitter.

    If she wants to go on some feminist rant and tell everyone to eat shit and die for being misogynist douchebags for no reason, she should have that right. Sarkeesian's made a career out of that. And no, she shouldn't get fired for it. It shouldn't reflect on Anet at all. It's her personal twitter account. This is common sense, it's not hard to grasp.

    The fact that Anet felt they needed to act, that someone said a court would find this grounds for termination, just proves how far PC has gone beyond reason.

    If we keep going the way we are then pretty soon it will be "A brave new world".
    Sooo to be clear, you fully support things like trumps "Grab them by the pussy" statement? It was made in private on his own time. I know this is only tangentially related, I just wanted to check if you were a hypocrite or not. 

    That would depend if he then acted on that statement. If it's said in a private conversation, yeah that's fine. I've said worse in private with my mates but I've never actually done any of those things. That would be assault.

    You've never told a rude joke? Or said something off colour about the opposite sex with your friends? Everyone does this shit, we all know it, regardless of gender.

    Like I said, it's one thing to say it, it's something quite different to do it. I just don't understand how people can get so wound up over a bunch of words. I mean, over sensitive just doesn't even come close. People really need thicker skins.

    Talk about pussies.
    Yeah guess what captain oblivious, what these people said that got them fired was not said in private. It was said on social media for everyone to see. Being a dick in private conversation is one thing but when you make an ass of yourself on a public stage its going to have repercussions. And when those repercussions hurt not only your public reputation but the reputation of your place of employment as well, expect them to do something about it.





    YashaXIselinysquare21

    "What if I told you 'insane' was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"




  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,633
    Perhaps what this situation is really bringing up to the surface is whether people can truly be safe and anonymous on the internet. As in, safe from repercussions for bad behavior. For the longest time, there have been few if no consequences for what we say online. People are far too quick to attack others over the net where they would be too fearful to do so in person. Many of the things people say online would be considered slanderous and subject to litigation offline or at the very least, subject to disturbing the peace ordinances.
    RidelynnwingoodDakeruysquare21

    image
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,566
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    If you don't believe an employee of the company can, through words alone, cause very real negative repercussions for their company that the company would have a vested interest in protecting against, then I have to hope you never work for the company I work for.
    Once again this is just another example showing that PC has gone beyond the pale. It shouldn't even be an issue but because of unchecked political correctness, running amok, we find this atmosphere in which fear of consequences forces people to act (over react) on the slightest perceived offense.

    You should not have to fear for your job because something you say may have repercussions on your company, not if you don't speak for them officially. This is the insanity of political correctness.
    EponyxDamorAeanderMadFrenchieVyntYashaXIselinPhryDakeruvandal5627ysquare21
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,566
    Leiloni said:
    cronius77 said:
    snip
    Yeah guess what captain oblivious, what these people said that got them fired was not said in private. It was said on social media for everyone to see. Being a dick in private conversation is one thing but when you make an ass of yourself on a public stage its going to have repercussions. And when those repercussions hurt not only your public reputation but the reputation of your place of employment as well, expect them to do something about it.





    I'll come back to freedom of speech on that one. Don't care how toxic it was or how inaccurate it was or how offensive it was or who said what to whom. It was a post on twitter. Big deal. It's not like she grabbed an AR15 and went batshit. She posted some shit on twitter.

    No doubt, seeing the reactions to my posts here, plenty of people must be thinking I'm being a dick. In public. But guess what? FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Clearly what I'm saying is going against the grain. Hey, tough. Put me on ignore, don't feed the troll, go watch a movie. There are many ways to deal with it.

    But if it offends you, I make no apologies, suck it up. This is PC bullshit at it's worst.
    ysquare21
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,041
    edited July 2018
    On freedom of speech.

    I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.

    We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.

    This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in our off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.

    So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
    mmrvLeiloniysquare21
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,264
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    If you don't believe an employee of the company can, through words alone, cause very real negative repercussions for their company that the company would have a vested interest in protecting against, then I have to hope you never work for the company I work for.
    Once again this is just another example showing that PC has gone beyond the pale. It shouldn't even be an issue but because of unchecked political correctness, running amok, we find this atmosphere in which fear of consequences forces people to act (over react) on the slightest perceived offense.

    You should not have to fear for your job because something you say may have repercussions on your company, not if you don't speak for them officially. This is the insanity of political correctness.
    This has been the case long before the internet was even invented. I don't know why you try to peg it on political correctness, when this is an established behaviour for as long as humans lived in a society.
    YashaXwingoodysquare21
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,770

    Once again this is just another example showing that PC has gone beyond the pale. It shouldn't even be an issue but because of unchecked political correctness, running amok, we find this atmosphere in which fear of consequences forces people to act (over react) on the slightest perceived offense.

    You should not have to fear for your job because something you say may have repercussions on your company, not if you don't speak for them officially. This is the insanity of political correctness.
    Well...

    If Joe Q Person goes out, the First Amendment (at least in the US) says they can say whatever they want, without fear of government persecution. The First Amendment does not protect you against what other people may do to you, however - just what the government can do.

    Let's say Joe Q is a cop. If Joe Q Person goes out in his police uniform, and starts spouting whatever rhetoric he wants to spout... Joe Q can expect that the Police will be called to account for Joe Q's actions. The Police didn't say those things, officially. But by letting Joe Q wear the uniform, and by allowing him to say whatever ~without repercussion or retraction~, then the Police are passively agreeing and sanctioning with whatever it is Joe Q said.

    Now, if Joe Q wears plain clothes, and says the same things... there's a level of isolation there. Even if everyone in the world knows that Joe Q is an officer, it's very plain he isn't speaking in the capacity as a police officer, but rather as a private citizen - there's at least some level of distinction, and some effort made on the part of Joe Q  to insulate the two. That doesn't mean the police have no grounds to speak with Joe Q about whatever it is -- they still have every right to speak with him about it, but if the argument were to make it so far as a trial, Joe Q has some standing to say there was no reasonable cause for anyone to take him as speaking for the police. Same situation while he's wearing a uniform, and that doesn't hold true any longer.

    You could say Jessica Price wasn't wearing a uniform. I would argue, that by linking her Twitter handle to her employment, and maybe more strongly by talking directly about her employment.. including talking about "how you do your job".. she very much drug the company into the mess, regardless of if she was officially speaking for them or not. Just as much as Joe Q is by virtue of just wearing the uniform.
    PhryGobstopper3Dysquare21
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,184
    edited July 2018
    Leiloni said:
    cronius77 said:
    snip
    Yeah guess what captain oblivious, what these people said that got them fired was not said in private. It was said on social media for everyone to see. Being a dick in private conversation is one thing but when you make an ass of yourself on a public stage its going to have repercussions. And when those repercussions hurt not only your public reputation but the reputation of your place of employment as well, expect them to do something about it.





    I'll come back to freedom of speech on that one. Don't care how toxic it was or how inaccurate it was or how offensive it was or who said what to whom. It was a post on twitter. Big deal. It's not like she grabbed an AR15 and went batshit. She posted some shit on twitter.

    No doubt, seeing the reactions to my posts here, plenty of people must be thinking I'm being a dick. In public. But guess what? FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Clearly what I'm saying is going against the grain. Hey, tough. Put me on ignore, don't feed the troll, go watch a movie. There are many ways to deal with it.

    But if it offends you, I make no apologies, suck it up. This is PC bullshit at it's worst.
    You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how factually wrong you really are.

    The firing of these employees was NOT PC bullshit. It's literally the first rule of Business 101. "The customer is always right."

    If you insult any customer to their face, much less an officially sponsored partner of your company, you can and should expect consequences from that bafflingly stupid action. It does not matter if this was done on official company platforms or through an unrelated outlet. The platform does not change the fact that multiple customers and at least one official partner were directly put on blast and in some cases outright defamed. 

    You're delusional if you think this is just PC bullshit. This is a circumstance which would have resulted in immediate firing even before the internet - it's just that now, we have platforms with which employees can quickly and conveniently burn bridges and make complete and utter fools of themselves. 
    YashaXPhry
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member RarePosts: 1,935
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    If you don't believe an employee of the company can, through words alone, cause very real negative repercussions for their company that the company would have a vested interest in protecting against, then I have to hope you never work for the company I work for.
    Once again this is just another example showing that PC has gone beyond the pale. It shouldn't even be an issue but because of unchecked political correctness, running amok, we find this atmosphere in which fear of consequences forces people to act (over react) on the slightest perceived offense.

    You should not have to fear for your job because something you say may have repercussions on your company, not if you don't speak for them officially. This is the insanity of political correctness.
    When you have your job listed on your PUBLIC Twitter account...
    When you TALK ABOUT YOUR JOB on your PUBLIC Twitter account...
    When you flaunt the idea that your JOB makes you more qualified to speak on a subject...
    It is NOT A PRIVATE OR PERSONAL CONVERSATION! 

    I  hate PC culture, but this has nothing to do with political correctness (accusing people of sexism without warrant DOES though). This has to do with someone from a company, talking about their work with said company, being a complete bitch to a customer of  that company for no reason, accusing THEM of sexism for no reason, then going on to call other customers of that company ASSHATS. 

    If I work at a store, walk in on my day off, and start calling customers asshats for no reason, should I keep my job? No! A thousand times no, a million times! It WILL reflect badly on the store. People aren't going to want to shop someplace where a person like that works! I wouldn't!

    If you can't see the problem, I can't help you. People without common sense are beyond help. 
    AeanderMisterZebubVyntYashaXwingoodDakeruvandal5627Ridelynnysquare21

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 618
    edited July 2018
    A dev behaved in a way that gets you fired (and not just in game dev), and she was fired for it. End of story.
    It had nothing to do with her gender. Anyone trying to turn this into a sexism issue or trying to white knight for her needs to step back and think about what they are doing. You are hurting women in gamedev more than any actually sexist player could.

    To the ad hominem crap I will only say this: Shame on you, you truly reached the bottom.
    YashaXDakeruRidelynn
  • claytondoraclaytondora Member UncommonPosts: 28
    edited July 2018
     o:) 
    Post edited by claytondora on
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,566
    laxie said:
    On freedom of speech.

    I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.

    We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.

    This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.

    So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
    I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.

    It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.

    I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,566
    Wow, so many people to reply to. So many people being triggered. One could be forgiven for thinking they were all loony lefty snowflakes, because we all know they're the enemies of free speech.

    Unfortunately it's getting on towards 1 am here in good old blighty and I want to see who else has abandoned Theresa the appeaser, the Brexit betrayer. So I'll say goodnight to all and don't have collective apoplexy.
    AeanderYashaX
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,755
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    If you don't believe an employee of the company can, through words alone, cause very real negative repercussions for their company that the company would have a vested interest in protecting against, then I have to hope you never work for the company I work for.
    Once again this is just another example showing that PC has gone beyond the pale. It shouldn't even be an issue but because of unchecked political correctness, running amok, we find this atmosphere in which fear of consequences forces people to act (over react) on the slightest perceived offense.

    You should not have to fear for your job because something you say may have repercussions on your company, not if you don't speak for them officially. This is the insanity of political correctness.
    The free speech/liberty/tyranny guys are hilarious. In the end they want to be able to say and do whatever then call everybody else PC/SJW when repercussions happen ON PAPER. They all run around like they're dealing with oppression, but want ZERO parts of the alternatives to their behavior and views.

    The majority of these types are cowards who are ALL talk and do not wish to deal with the "smoke" (as the young folks say) that comes with the words.

    Be clear, political correctness is what is allowing the ones who scoff at it to keep their breathing passages clear while they speak. Why should a company pick up a sword and shield for you unless they stand for the things you are representing publicly?
    AeanderYashaXwingood
    Raging Demons for all flowchart "Kens". This is a metaphor.
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,147
    laxie said:
    On freedom of speech.

    I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.

    We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.

    This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.

    So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
    I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.

    It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.

    I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.
    That is why employers tell you not to wear your colors when on your own time. You can almost always do what you want but not while wearing their colors. Forever a standard in the workplace.
    MadFrenchiewingood
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,503
    Wow, so many people to reply to. So many people being triggered. One could be forgiven for thinking they were all loony lefty snowflakes, because we all know they're the enemies of free speech.

    Unfortunately it's getting on towards 1 am here in good old blighty and I want to see who else has abandoned Theresa the appeaser, the Brexit betrayer. So I'll say goodnight to all and don't have collective apoplexy.
    John Cleese on the word Snowflake. "Yes I've heard this word. I think sociopaths use it in an attempt to discredit the notion of empathy."

    Ah ha! Now I see, so now that your aren't foreign secretary anymore you have more time to noodle around on the internet, eh Borris?
    AeanderMadFrenchieWarhawke80YashaXDakeru

    "What if I told you 'insane' was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"




  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,041
    I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.

    It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.

    I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.
    That's fair. It probably depends on the specific employer.

    I wasn't trying to make a comparison of the employer/employee relationship. Instead, I was trying to say that teacher/student is kind of similar to game developer / customer. There probably still is an expectation that you treat the person in a professional manner, even outside the office.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Wow, so many people to reply to. So many people being triggered. One could be forgiven for thinking they were all loony lefty snowflakes, because we all know they're the enemies of free speech.

    Unfortunately it's getting on towards 1 am here in good old blighty and I want to see who else has abandoned Theresa the appeaser, the Brexit betrayer. So I'll say goodnight to all and don't have collective apoplexy.
    Keep talking like an holier-than-thou idiot, and you'll have that.  People love piling on when it's so easy to dismantle an argument.  This surprises no one, Captain Obvious.
    AeanderYashaX

    image
  • ExilarExilar Member CommonPosts: 1
    I haven't read all the comments, so I don't know if my concerns here have been addressed, but I've noticed people perceiving Price's initial comments as a one-time sort of PTSD situation where she thought she was being talked down to by a man because she was a woman. I don't doubt that women in the gaming industry have that happen a lot, and it's really gross that it does happen, but it wasn't like it was a first impression that she realized was wrong. Even after this whole debacle she still claims all sides against her to be sexist, and that the only reason this happened was because she is a woman. Instead of recognizing any fault on her side, she is acting as though every step she took was completely justified, which I think show's her character a bit more than just the first tweets.
    MadFrenchieYashaXDakeruRidelynnysquare21
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Exilar said:
    I haven't read all the comments, so I don't know if my concerns here have been addressed, but I've noticed people perceiving Price's initial comments as a one-time sort of PTSD situation where she thought she was being talked down to by a man because she was a woman. I don't doubt that women in the gaming industry have that happen a lot, and it's really gross that it does happen, but it wasn't like it was a first impression that she realized was wrong. Even after this whole debacle she still claims all sides against her to be sexist, and that the only reason this happened was because she is a woman. Instead of recognizing any fault on her side, she is acting as though every step she took was completely justified, which I think show's her character a bit more than just the first tweets.
    Quite honestly, I think @Iselin had the right of it.  Alcohol and Twitter don't mix.
    wingood

    image
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