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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,213
    edited July 2018
    Leiloni said:
    cronius77 said:
    snip
    Yeah guess what captain oblivious, what these people said that got them fired was not said in private. It was said on social media for everyone to see. Being a dick in private conversation is one thing but when you make an ass of yourself on a public stage its going to have repercussions. And when those repercussions hurt not only your public reputation but the reputation of your place of employment as well, expect them to do something about it.





    I'll come back to freedom of speech on that one. Don't care how toxic it was or how inaccurate it was or how offensive it was or who said what to whom. It was a post on twitter. Big deal. It's not like she grabbed an AR15 and went batshit. She posted some shit on twitter.

    No doubt, seeing the reactions to my posts here, plenty of people must be thinking I'm being a dick. In public. But guess what? FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Clearly what I'm saying is going against the grain. Hey, tough. Put me on ignore, don't feed the troll, go watch a movie. There are many ways to deal with it.

    But if it offends you, I make no apologies, suck it up. This is PC bullshit at it's worst.
    You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how factually wrong you really are.

    The firing of these employees was NOT PC bullshit. It's literally the first rule of Business 101. "The customer is always right."

    If you insult any customer to their face, much less an officially sponsored partner of your company, you can and should expect consequences from that bafflingly stupid action. It does not matter if this was done on official company platforms or through an unrelated outlet. The platform does not change the fact that multiple customers and at least one official partner were directly put on blast and in some cases outright defamed. 

    You're delusional if you think this is just PC bullshit. This is a circumstance which would have resulted in immediate firing even before the internet - it's just that now, we have platforms with which employees can quickly and conveniently burn bridges and make complete and utter fools of themselves. 
    YashaXPhry
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member EpicPosts: 1,956
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    If you don't believe an employee of the company can, through words alone, cause very real negative repercussions for their company that the company would have a vested interest in protecting against, then I have to hope you never work for the company I work for.
    Once again this is just another example showing that PC has gone beyond the pale. It shouldn't even be an issue but because of unchecked political correctness, running amok, we find this atmosphere in which fear of consequences forces people to act (over react) on the slightest perceived offense.

    You should not have to fear for your job because something you say may have repercussions on your company, not if you don't speak for them officially. This is the insanity of political correctness.
    When you have your job listed on your PUBLIC Twitter account...
    When you TALK ABOUT YOUR JOB on your PUBLIC Twitter account...
    When you flaunt the idea that your JOB makes you more qualified to speak on a subject...
    It is NOT A PRIVATE OR PERSONAL CONVERSATION! 

    I  hate PC culture, but this has nothing to do with political correctness (accusing people of sexism without warrant DOES though). This has to do with someone from a company, talking about their work with said company, being a complete bitch to a customer of  that company for no reason, accusing THEM of sexism for no reason, then going on to call other customers of that company ASSHATS. 

    If I work at a store, walk in on my day off, and start calling customers asshats for no reason, should I keep my job? No! A thousand times no, a million times! It WILL reflect badly on the store. People aren't going to want to shop someplace where a person like that works! I wouldn't!

    If you can't see the problem, I can't help you. People without common sense are beyond help. 
    Aeander[Deleted User]VyntYashaXwingoodDakeruvandal5627Ridelynnysquare21

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 623
    edited July 2018
    A dev behaved in a way that gets you fired (and not just in game dev), and she was fired for it. End of story.
    It had nothing to do with her gender. Anyone trying to turn this into a sexism issue or trying to white knight for her needs to step back and think about what they are doing. You are hurting women in gamedev more than any actually sexist player could.

    To the ad hominem crap I will only say this: Shame on you, you truly reached the bottom.
    YashaXDakeruRidelynn
  • claytondoraclaytondora Member UncommonPosts: 28
    edited July 2018
     o:) 
    Post edited by claytondora on
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,570
    laxie said:
    On freedom of speech.

    I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.

    We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.

    This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.

    So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
    I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.

    It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.

    I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.
  • jmcdermottukjmcdermottuk Member RarePosts: 1,570
    Wow, so many people to reply to. So many people being triggered. One could be forgiven for thinking they were all loony lefty snowflakes, because we all know they're the enemies of free speech.

    Unfortunately it's getting on towards 1 am here in good old blighty and I want to see who else has abandoned Theresa the appeaser, the Brexit betrayer. So I'll say goodnight to all and don't have collective apoplexy.
    AeanderYashaX
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    sayuu said:
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    Look! Someone with a brain! A FREE THINKER! Proof that not everyone subscribes to the PC madness corrupting society.

    PC will be the death of free speech, and that, people, will be the death of democracy.
    you are literally crying about actions having consequences.


    and F.W.I. democracy = tyranny 

    Actions? ACTIONS?
    I refer to my earlier "sticks and stones" comment.
    Words are not actions. It's one thing to say something and something quite different to act upon those words. Had she physically assaulted someone then fair game but she didn't. She posted some comments on twitter. I mean, seriously, she posted some comments on twitter. Big fucking deal.

    This is exactly the kind of PC, namby pamby bollocks I'm talking about.

    Edit, @MadFrenchie as well. Actions, get real.
    If you don't believe an employee of the company can, through words alone, cause very real negative repercussions for their company that the company would have a vested interest in protecting against, then I have to hope you never work for the company I work for.
    Once again this is just another example showing that PC has gone beyond the pale. It shouldn't even be an issue but because of unchecked political correctness, running amok, we find this atmosphere in which fear of consequences forces people to act (over react) on the slightest perceived offense.

    You should not have to fear for your job because something you say may have repercussions on your company, not if you don't speak for them officially. This is the insanity of political correctness.
    The free speech/liberty/tyranny guys are hilarious. In the end they want to be able to say and do whatever then call everybody else PC/SJW when repercussions happen ON PAPER. They all run around like they're dealing with oppression, but want ZERO parts of the alternatives to their behavior and views.

    The majority of these types are cowards who are ALL talk and do not wish to deal with the "smoke" (as the young folks say) that comes with the words.

    Be clear, political correctness is what is allowing the ones who scoff at it to keep their breathing passages clear while they speak. Why should a company pick up a sword and shield for you unless they stand for the things you are representing publicly?
    AeanderYashaXwingood
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,180
    laxie said:
    On freedom of speech.

    I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.

    We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.

    This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.

    So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
    I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.

    It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.

    I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.
    That is why employers tell you not to wear your colors when on your own time. You can almost always do what you want but not while wearing their colors. Forever a standard in the workplace.
    MadFrenchiewingood
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,065
    I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.

    It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.

    I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.
    That's fair. It probably depends on the specific employer.

    I wasn't trying to make a comparison of the employer/employee relationship. Instead, I was trying to say that teacher/student is kind of similar to game developer / customer. There probably still is an expectation that you treat the person in a professional manner, even outside the office.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Wow, so many people to reply to. So many people being triggered. One could be forgiven for thinking they were all loony lefty snowflakes, because we all know they're the enemies of free speech.

    Unfortunately it's getting on towards 1 am here in good old blighty and I want to see who else has abandoned Theresa the appeaser, the Brexit betrayer. So I'll say goodnight to all and don't have collective apoplexy.
    Keep talking like an holier-than-thou idiot, and you'll have that.  People love piling on when it's so easy to dismantle an argument.  This surprises no one, Captain Obvious.
    AeanderYashaX

    image
  • ExilarExilar Member CommonPosts: 1
    I haven't read all the comments, so I don't know if my concerns here have been addressed, but I've noticed people perceiving Price's initial comments as a one-time sort of PTSD situation where she thought she was being talked down to by a man because she was a woman. I don't doubt that women in the gaming industry have that happen a lot, and it's really gross that it does happen, but it wasn't like it was a first impression that she realized was wrong. Even after this whole debacle she still claims all sides against her to be sexist, and that the only reason this happened was because she is a woman. Instead of recognizing any fault on her side, she is acting as though every step she took was completely justified, which I think show's her character a bit more than just the first tweets.
    MadFrenchieYashaXDakeruRidelynnysquare21
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Exilar said:
    I haven't read all the comments, so I don't know if my concerns here have been addressed, but I've noticed people perceiving Price's initial comments as a one-time sort of PTSD situation where she thought she was being talked down to by a man because she was a woman. I don't doubt that women in the gaming industry have that happen a lot, and it's really gross that it does happen, but it wasn't like it was a first impression that she realized was wrong. Even after this whole debacle she still claims all sides against her to be sexist, and that the only reason this happened was because she is a woman. Instead of recognizing any fault on her side, she is acting as though every step she took was completely justified, which I think show's her character a bit more than just the first tweets.
    Quite honestly, I think @Iselin had the right of it.  Alcohol and Twitter don't mix.
    wingood

    image
  • ManWithNoTanManWithNoTan Member UncommonPosts: 95
    edited July 2018
    How many people have gotten themselves fired for using Twitter? I'll never install that thing. I say crap all the time that I wish I'd never said out loud, let alone have it on the internet for all to see. Install Twitter = Get my butt fired.
    SBFord
  • BananableBananable Member UncommonPosts: 194
    edited July 2018
    Lolz.
    I dont get it, you all are so surprised. Isnt it a bit too late to be surpised? I remember there was article about cheater. Devs just caught ONE guy, stripped him and show to the public. It was like warning, something like : Kids, cheating is bad. (Meanwhile back then i played GW2 alot and see like 10 cheaters/botter every day). For me that was so stupid and unprofessional.
  • WylfWylf Member UncommonPosts: 375
    edited July 2018

    Bill said, "This is an opinion piece, so I’m sure not everyone will agree." On this we can agree.

    Moving on, Bill you said:


    "I’ve spoken with several former employees of ArenaNet and they’ve all told me the same thing: MO is not the hero Guild Wars fans make him out to be. Quite often, it’s the opposite: he’s a founder and the company president, but there’s a reason he’s the only founder left at the company. There’s a reason many of the people who were responsible for the sky-high dreams of Guild Wars 2 left for other studios. There’s a reason that MO’s the only founder left."

    Name a company that doesn't have faceless anonymous disgruntled cowards who snip from the back row?
    MO may or may not be a "hero" but he took the appropriate action in this case. The entire paragraph is pure hearsay, and IMHO worthless.

    You later said:
    I agree, there was nothing to clap back at for Delroir. But someone in my circles put it well: "It's like she has PTSD from dealing with crap in this industry"...

    This is pure speculation.

    What has been preserved, and what the evidence shows are the actual words of the parties involved, and in my opinion, Price engaged in an unprovoked attack on a customer, and her subsequent actions were not just enough to fire her, but required it.

    As for Fries, I agree with Aender:


    Aeander said:




    Aeander said:
    This shouldn't even be controversial. The fastest way to get fired at any company is to disrespect customers. That is what JP did. That is why she was fired. End of story.

    I don't think it's that simple in this case. And then why was Fries fired? He was, for all I can surmise, loved by both fans and AN employees. Just to CYA and not get a law-suit for discrimination perhaps? The whole thing stinks, and has potential implications for devs at all companies moving forward. 


    In Fries' case, and only Fries' case, there is room for a gray area. He was not openly and directly disrespectful to customers. However, his firing was not without grounds. He did defend and support the actions of someone who was disrespectful to customers. He did openly imply that a community lore expert - someone with more knowledge of the universe's story workings than Price, by the way - was a layman. He did contradict Anet's community feedback policy and imply that customer feedback was not asked for. That last point alone is sufficient grounds for firing.

    However, it isn't Fries that you, or any other media outlet, are rallying around. Fries isn't getting extensive articles to defend himself. No, it is Price, the one who completely and undeniably earned her firing, who has been made into a martyr.



    A final question, there have been at least two prior lenghty threads on this issue, why the need to bring it up again?
    YashaXBasherXLeiloniDakeruMowzerysquare21
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member LegendaryPosts: 7,290
    I love how even on this site, we see a continued victimization of a person who fully deserved what they got and inherited this mess all on their own. I personally think ANET did the right thing as I've already stated numerous times. You can be the best developer in the world, but if you talk to or about people on social media the way she does, don't expect to keep your day job.
    laxieYashaXMegilindirEponyxDamorpantarowingoodBasherXLeiloniRain_Deathravenysquare21

  • acidbloodacidblood Member RarePosts: 877
    edited July 2018

    When I first heard about this I didn't think Jessica Price should have been fired either (we all have bad days)... but after reading the posts, yeah, sorry, but I can absolutely understand why ANet would not want her representing the company* in such as way.

    And yes, she could have been 'warned', but in all likelihood that wasn't an option, as while we don't know what was said in ‘the meeting’, she showed no signs of contrition after the fact and instead doubled down on the whole 'I'm a victim' narrative and continued to attack anyone who dared disagree with her (even *slightly*).

    Which is not to say Jessica, or anyone else for that matter, shouldn’t defend their opinions, but if you are going to engage with the public, as a representative of a company* (i.e. your words / actions affect other people too) then at the very least you need to be civil about it; or better yet, listen to what others have to say and thank them for their insight / respectfully disagree.

    * While it was her personal twitter account, if she didn't want to engage with fans (the good, the bad, and the ugly), or represent ANet in such a space, then she shouldn't have the company name in her profile, and she absolutely shouldn't have been talking about GW2 from a position of 'superiority' (i.e. I'm on 'the team', therefore I’m omnipotent and your points of view are all worthless).

    NB: A much better case could be made for Peter, as his main 'crime' seems to be trying to support her, and he was mostly respectful (at least to those respectful to him) the entire time... but I guess it suits the whole SJW thing better if the 'victim' is female right?

    TLDR: Jessica Price seems to have been out for a fight, she got one, she lost.

    SBFordPhryBekkrRidelynnysquare21
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,744
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.


    Interesting? No, more like ridiculous. Was this piece written by Price?  You are hurting my brain SB, stop it already.




    Wylfmmrvpantaro
    ....
  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 523
    I suspect that Mike O’Brien feels he’s justified in firing Jessica because her tone on Twitter is one that’s fed up and dismissive of the GW2 community. And it is her personal Twitter, so she should be allowed to say what she feels in that space. But as of this writing, her profile still states she’s part of the ANet team, and that means her actions reflect on the company.
    Read more at https://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/editorials/arenanet-and-the-wisdom-of-not-doing-anything-1000012852#myChJlXkoSpU52pZ.99


    For the most part I agree with you guys on most stuff but I have to disagree here. She did a continuation of a AMA, she used her personal account as her business account, you have to reflect the company values if you do something like that. I don't care that she says she works for A-Net, what was the line crosser is she was doing a continuation of WORK on her account. She made herself an employee from that point on.

    What I don't get is there was already a lengthy community thread about this and already a very misleading article you guys put out about this, why put out another one on the same topic? I'm sorry to say but its very clickbait of you guys at this point.
    Wylfysquare21
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Member RarePosts: 2,698
    I first read about this days ago and didn't pay much attention to it. Firings happen all the time. Days later I'm browsing around and so I see is this mess.

    I'm in disbelief that this article even exists. If the majority of users here weren't fair people I wouldn't be back. And that is coming from someone that has had accounts here since the real early 2000s.

    Shameful.
    JeffSpicoli
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    SBFord said:
    Aeander said:
    SBFord said:
    Xasapis said:

    You know, that is interesting that you brought up gamergate (I wasn't aware of it until years). One of the /r/guildwars2 threads I was reading there was a person questioning whether gamergate was right on its assessment regarding gaming press, considering how falsely and on a script the whole situation with guildwars2 is portrait.

    Gaming press has indeed lost considerable relevance over the years, exactly because they chose to push ideology over the facts.

    The reaction towards both your editorial pieces should be an indication on how people that are not necessarily invested in Anet feel. The same contrast is there between the reaction of Guildwars2 players and the gaming press.

    The bottom line was that the CEO of Anet had to choose between appeasing the players or the press. I think he made the right choice, but time will tell.
    I didn't write that. I simply posted quotes from the link provided in the response I made. It's an interesting side light to the overall discussion. The people who wrote that article are not games press. 

    I don't have an opinion so let's not sling shade please. It's been a very reasonable discussion and I hope it stays that way. 

    @mmrv Again - I did NOT write that, simply provided a link and two quotes from the larger piece. Keep it civil, please.
    The problem is that the article that you provided was yet another biased and poorly researched outside perspective of the situation which pushes the same incorrect narrative that these threads have attempted to push in their OP's. 

    If you had wanted an actual neutral, comprehensive, level-headed analysis of the situation, you would have linked Woodenpotatoes' 57 minute video on the topic.
    I wasn't LOOKING for a neutral, unbiased article. I posted the link to yet another piece of the puzzle that has interesting discussion opportunities within its words. I like to read all sides of any argument. That makes me informed.

    Just stop.
    You didn't provide a piece of the puzzle you provided a deceptive pile of misinformation that was written in her defense yet oddly enough it actually condemned the exact behavior she displayed. Its mind boggling how they managed to twist the issue in the article to try to portray her as the victim when she actually was the toxic online personality they condemn.
    WylfYashaX
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    Scellow said:
    None of them should have been fired, they HAVE THE FUCKING RIGHT to think / and say WHATEVER they want in their FREE TIME, if they did something illegal, or disrecpectfull, you can report tweet on twitter or give your lawyer a call

    They got fired, i hope they'll sure ArenaNet, America is fucked up
    I think most of us would agree with you, unfortunately its the wacko leftists who started these witch hunts demanding people be fired for saying things they deemed "insensitive". you are late to the game and its been a one sided hackfest with all the PC lefties constantly demanding people be fired finally one of their own has been axed for it and they lost their mind.

    Its a really sick state of affairs in the west right now primarily because of these zealots on the left, luckily i think they have gone so far that people are starting to rebel. I can name you 20 people who lost their jobs who said things on twitter/facebook not even on work accounts because the left activists.

    So please aim your rhetoric at the people responsible for this atmosphere.
    AeanderJeffSpicoliMadFrenchieBasherXPhryFlyByKnightjmcdermottukvandal5627
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,180
    Know what Twitter is really for? Sweepstakes and giveaways.
    DakeruBillMurphy
  • shavashava Member UncommonPosts: 316
    In a mature gaming industry -- like futbol or American football or world poker say, lol, the fans sometimes even celebrate the abuse and reticence of management, coaches, players and various. And generally the owners consider their assets far more valuable than p***ing and moaning fans, who will never be satisfied.

    Boston fans went so far as to complain that there were too many blacks on the championship Celtics, back when, and broke into a player's home, trashed it, crapped on the rug, spray painted racist graffiti on his living room walls.

    Oddly, management did not react by firing the player, even though he had a reputation for being unlikeable. He was leading a championship team.

    The management didn't see it as being about race but about performance. The attack vector was expressed through race. Had he been fired, or praised, it would have been on his performance. Not his physiology, or the fans' opinions of it.

    Dear gamergate, the world does not revolve around your outrage. Grow a healthy pear shaped situational response, and realize that this is not any more a real battleground on these forums than any game world.

    Go do something real. Ideally not harassing women or people you perceive as defending them disproportionately. If you want to organize for men's rights, may I recommend leaving the PC and finding a political organization or nonprofit in meat space that will effect real change. This is not the venue to make change.

    Online you are all steam and no steam engine. It does not represent you well to come off so shrill. Women learned decades ago that flaming got you shut down, yes even fired. Why do you assume it works better for men when you yourselves place yourselves in the inferior victimized position, struggling for fair recognition, just as feminists have been forever?

    Take a few notes from the more successful organizing tactics of your grandmothers, mothers, and older sisters. After all, women's rights are human rights, and we want you to come around to a secure, strong, well articulated position, free of fear and anxiety.
    EponyxDamorXasapisBasherXWylfPhrymarksteeleAeanderBuccaneerysquare21
  • StarjjaStarjja Member UncommonPosts: 3
    Yet again another article that paint's Jessica Price as the victim and discounts all her appalling behaviour as acceptable. I encourage all gamers alike to speak out against articles like this one and call it out for what it is, a non factual clickbait hit piece for the $$$ because the topic is still fresh and relevant.
    pantaroBasherXDakeruYashaXysquare21
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