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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,853
    Gutlard said:
    This all just seems like we're losing the ability to think and speak critically. How many of us get our news, by just reading headlines? The attention grabbing BS of the story....

    Anyone can be a blogger or 'journalist', but how many know of the rules that go along with it? There are systems and rules in place to keep the 'news clean.'

    A bad example, but I remember the news scenes from "good night, and good luck," and David Straithairn's portrayal of Edward R. Murrow. When he reported a news story, he reported the facts. He didn't embellish, he didn't spew vitriol for ratings. He provided the facts and left it up to the listeners to add their own slants to what they heard.

    Now it's hard to hear news without wondering who owns them and what their agendas are, or if we already know "Fox vs. CNN" we know their agendas.

    The government provided the infrastructure that the media/network companies used, and they were allowed to entertain and advertise as much as they wanted. This was ALLOWED, because they had a stipulation of setting aside airtime each night at set times to provide the nation with news, and nothing but the news.

    Now we get sensationalized entertainment with news mixed in. Now we get news based on what's trending and what will get 'hits' as opposed to the facts we may need to hear. How much important stuff are we missing, because they let all the fluff get in the way...

    But what can we expect, as all of our politicians live sensationalized lives, instead of keeping their noses to the grindstone and keeping the cogs turning for all of our betterment.

    People have forgotten how to think before they speak/act, and it's the norm.

    People are getting tired of hearing and reading trash all the time, and are pushing back.

    People will continue to get fired for being stupid, and it's easier to be stupid now than ever before.

    Gut Out!


    Well, I think a good lesson to be learned here is that, in fact, most people are pretty stupid. And with the coming of the internet they can now display that stupidity to the entire world. I like it, it makes me feel smarter.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    SBFordTorvalGutlard
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    edited July 2018




    These types of articles and the gaming media's response in general are the very reason terms like SJW and feminist have garnered a negative connotation.  This is why trust in mainstream media is at an all-time low in America.

    You can't fight fire with fire here.  Specifically when that fire is not even controlled, but sprayed about ignorantly, setting the entire village aflame with no regard as to who gets burned.


    I'm actually trying to look at it from all sides. And it seems to me that the only person who really got "hurt" from all this may have been Peter Fries. 



    You keep saying this type of things on the forum replies but its clear from anyone objectively reading your article that its simply not true Bill. Your entire article tried to switch the blame to A-net, at every opportunity tried to marginalize HER behavior She was FAR BEYOND "a little rude" she was factually a sexist bigot and down right evil "glad they are dead". I am not sure how you can defend her hate speech....actually I do know you are in the same twisted ideology camp. Sorry we all know this article's tone would have been far different if it was a male (hell you wrote it about her not the man who was fired for doing far far far less need I say more?) it came through very clear in your overt bias in the article. Oddly enough most every reply you have made literally contradicts the tone and statements of your article.

    The pandering doesnt stop either as you push the same SJW crap we are all tired of erroneously being shoved down our throats example? Your assumption she had to endure terrible treatment as a women in gaming... please stop with this epic distortions and flat out misinformation, you know nothing of her treatment yet assumed it was poor?? in the process condemning males in a bigoted way the assumption being "hurr derr guys are sexist jerks who treat women poorly".

    Its about time all of these wacko leftists start getting consequences for their outrageous hateful speech the double standard in this country has become sickening where people on the left say the most vile things about others and even advocate violence against people whom they disagree with and nothing is done to curb the behavior so it just keeps getting worse each passing day.
    IselinCaffynated
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited July 2018
    Iselin said:

    Just think about it. In your own work lives - whatever you do - you know for a fact that you know what you're doing much more than your customers do and it's actually pretty rare to get some useful feedback from them. How often do you tell your customers that? And if you do it often, how long did your business last?

    That's the thing about customer feedback: they don't know the internal workings, but it does not make it useless.  Anyone specifically trained in the customer experience will tell you that a customer's feedback is rooted in something that makes sense to them.  Often times, merely explaining the underlying reasoning why their feedback is flawed and/or cannot be acted upon will cause the customer to recognize there are items they are not privy to.

    Belittling the customer will do nothing good for the company.  It really doesn't matter what the comment is; again, speaking from my time as an adjuster (as that's the best perspective I can offer here), our female adjusters endured blatant and outright sexism in the form of, "You're a woman, so you can't do your job.  Get me a man."  They weren't given license to blow up on the customer or start ranting about the larger societal issue: they were trained to explain to the customer that they received all of the same training, knowledge, and instruction as their male counterparts and that their male counterparts would undoubtedly back them up on the fact that they are as qualified, as a female adjuster, as any male adjuster in the office.

    You'll notice that doesn't include putting said customer on blast personally in the public space.
    Torval

    image
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305

    SBFord said:


    thunderC said:

    Another article on this crazy woman who got fired from A-Net, Wasn't the last thread of 12 pages of circle jerking enough? She got what she deserved . Gaming Journalist need to stick to GAMING , If you want to talk politics get a job at one of the major news stations or apply to the Washington Post.

    This IS about gaming. ArenaNet? Guild Wars 2? Game Developer? Not tooooooo hard to connect the dots. Gaming is more than just the actual games themselves.

    That said, I'm quite sure we don't know the entire story and, so far anyway, have only heard Price's retelling. Nobody wins here, especially Fries who was sticking up for someone who's probably his friend, even if somewhat lacking in diplomacy, and got the ax for it which was way over the top.

    I personally can't wait for the next news cycle to bury it.



    Disagree the fans win, good people win, and A-net wins for standing up to a sexist evil minded bigoted bully.. there are plenty of capable developers to take her place the game will be just fine without the two of them and possibly even better without the constant virtue signaling being inserted to push a personal agenda.
    Warhawke80Caffynated
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Aeander said:
    This shouldn't even be controversial. The fastest way to get fired at any company is to disrespect customers. That is what JP did. That is why she was fired. End of story.
    I don't think it's that simple in this case. And then why was Fries fired? He was, for all I can surmise, loved by both fans and AN employees. Just to CYA and not get a law-suit for discrimination perhaps? The whole thing stinks, and has potential implications for devs at all companies moving forward. 

    Bullshit Bill. The only thing that stinks is the gaming media's inability to take what these people did at face value, due to the main perpetrator in question being a woman. "Oh well maybe she had some ulterior motive for being an asshole..." Yeah you know I'm sure every asshole in the world believes that about themselves. That in no way changes the fact its wrong, and that there are serious consequences about publicly behaving like, and I can't use this term enough here, an ASSHOLE.

    Why was Fries fired? He jumped in and not only supported JP's off base and totally nasty behavior, he also reinforced JP's opinion that fans are contemptibly beneath being worthy to give feedback to the company. Do you seriously not understand what a dick move that was?
    I can't argue with this, either.

    However, if I were in that position, depending upon the specific content of Fries' comments, I would have considered a lesser reprimand.  Specifically (and I know, hindsight is 20/20) considering MO is getting grilled as allowing gender roles to color his decision anyways.  If Fries wasn't confrontational with customers as Price was (though I get the feeling he may have been from those who say they saw his comments), and he didn't have an internal record of corrective action being needed, I think a lesser punishment would've been more appropriate.

    But again, I didn't get to read the tweets that have, apparently, now been deleted.  Their content would dictate a lot in how the company should (and seemingly did) react.
    Oh my paws and whiskers, you little scamps and your lack of training in Google Fu. HERE are the deleted tweets.

    Now were his comments by themselves excessively rude? No not really. But what he actually did by defending Price's dickhead behavior was to send a double barreled "fuck you", to Deroir and any other fan who might have taken offense, making himself just as culpable of bad behavior as Price.
    I'm conflicted.  On the one hand, I can see what you're saying here.  On the other, if Fries had no precious instances of insubordination, I feel like ending his career might've been a strong move somewhat spurred by fears that allowing him to continue working there would've only fueled the gender bias fantasy Price has been pushing about the situation and gave it false legitimacy in the eyes of many...  That's much tougher call to make than the handling of Price herself.
    Here (see below) is the exact bad behavior he was condoning by defending Price. There is no grey area here. By telling Dreoir and everyone else their input was not asked for, and therefore unwelcome, he is reinforcing Price's opinion that their fans are nothing but "rando asshats" who the development staff does not respect and don't have to pretend to like in their private time. I mean I get the empathy for the guy's career, but still, why is this so hard for people to understand? Fries is not a sacrificial lamb or innocent bystander, he's a co-conspirator.


    Also Emotional Courtesan would have made for a kick ass 80s new wave band name.

    "Tonight on Saturday Night Live, guest host Steve Martin, with musical guests, Emotional Courtesan and Spandau Ballet!!!"
    Again, I understand that point.  However, as you say, I also have empathy for ending someone's career.  That's livelihood for him and his family.  I'm not saying ArenaNet is wrong (hell, Fries may have given the company an ultimatum to the effect of "If she goes, I'm going too," to which they responded: "Bye bye then."), but he wasn't actively bashing a member of the community as Price did.  His comments may have made him complicit with hers, but I feel that, barring any internal knowledge we don't have to the contrary, Fries could've received a less...  Final corrective action.
    YashaXRain_Deathraven

    image
  • ohgodtherats707ohgodtherats707 Member UncommonPosts: 85
    Yup not even surprised this site defends that scum way to earn that Cuck hat Bill.  You know the moment you gloat over someone who died of cancer, anything that happens after that is called karma!!  Also going to take this opportunity to point out this is yet another example of this website being one sided and I really wouldn't be surprised if i got another ban threat for merely pointing that out. 
    mmrvJeffSpicoliCaffynatedThahar
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,213
    I might also add that her statement on "not having to pretend to like you on her personal time" takes on a whole new meaning when you consider the target. 

    The target, Deroir, was an official partner and a popular streamer. He represents not only a large subset of the fans, but the lore community that should be able to communicate with Price in particular. She publicly and in no uncertain terms called into question the relationship of her and the company she represents with not only their regular fans, but also the very partners who promote their products. The importance of that insult and the damage it could do to Anet's community PR and sponsorships cannot be overstated.

    If we take Price at her word, is everyone pretending to like Deroir? What about Woodenpotatoes? Or any other community ambassador? 
    [Deleted User]YashaX
  • ShinamiShinami Member UncommonPosts: 825
    I didn't think much of this until a person posted a convincing argument about ArenaNet's Prowess with Internet technologies since the first Guild Wars game was created. A point was made that Anet was one of the few companies that actually knew how to use the internet in spades to increase awareness and sell their products.

    The argument made was that people from the outside hardly know what occurs inside a company or vice versa with their playerbase. However, it is very easy to do the following:

    (paraphrased from the original poster)

    1) Create a name regardless if a person exists or not.
    2) Create a character profile and a script that is given to a person to perform the part.
    3) Roleplay the scenario in practice and then go live with it.
    4) Complete the Act resulting in the president of the company become a "Hero to the People" and positive press spreading on behalf of the company.

    Further note on this matter was the sentence:

    "One can not prove that this was an act to get the public's attention, but one can not equally prove that this wasn't, and due to how secretive companies are with their internals and their public relations plans, this wouldn't be the first time specifically that a gaming developer has been caught pulling a stunt like this"

    Another part that fuels the argument is the extreme rarity of ever seeing a woman directly initiate sexism as a cover for a professional basis. In fact, the issue is so rare that I spent time going over case law out of curiosity to find when a woman has done the same and in analyzing countless cases I could only find one other example that was similar to this one.

    While such a person was flamed
    I often enjoy seeing Alternate Theories of a case and a fresh perspective regardless if its intelligent or moronic.


    SBFord
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    edited July 2018


    Also Emotional Courtesan would have made for a kick ass 80s new wave band name.

    "Tonight on Saturday Night Live, guest host Steve Martin, with musical guests, Emotional Courtesan and Spandau Ballet!!!"
    So much this. I swear, I love your commentary for all the little nuggets of giggles you leave behind in what can sometimes be an overly-serious discussion. Thank you for that. In this world these days, that's a precious, precious commodity. <3
    Torvalrertez[Deleted User]


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    edited July 2018
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.


    YashaXRain_Deathravenn3v3rriv3rCaffynated


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • barezzbarezz Member UncommonPosts: 143
    Without wading in too deeply here, one thing that I noticed was this attitude of being upset that someone would reply/comment on something that is posted on a "personal twitter page". Here is the thing, social media is not a blog. While facebook or twitter allows you to have "your" own page, it is not a private space unless you take some sort of security measure. If you allow people to friend you, follow you, or have your tweets/posts set to public, then what you type on your private page goes public, and that is not even counting shares or retweets.

    So suddenly your "private" thing from your page is not on someone else's "private" feed, and they can comment with the click of a button. That is literally "working as designed". If you want to post something without getting feedback it involves some work, but that also means you can't get a billion likes or retweets, which we all know is what life is all about ;).

    I tell this to people all of the time, if you want to post in a medium and not allow just anyone to comment, get a blog and turn comment approval on. And post away to your heart's content.
    SBFord
  • JakeSimJakeSim Member RarePosts: 881
    edited July 2018
    zzz. She fucked up. Enough said. Plus her view on TotalBiscuit is disgusting. That alone should have caused backlash.
    Please come check out my stream. All the love is appreciated! 

    TWITCH: @JakeSimTV
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,213
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.
    All I see is yet another ill-researched and fuckheaded opinion piece with no regards to basic business PR. 

    Price was not entitled to a reprimand, warning, or lesser punishment. Certain offences are, in fact, worthy of instant termination in the real world, and face-to-face public disrespect to a customer would be considered one of those by most respectable corporations. 

    There was nothing unethical about these firings. Mike's leadership was by no means inadequate here. No amount of media soapboxing and narrative spinning is going to change normal, objective reality. 
    Post edited by Aeander on
    Caffynated
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:


    The unethical firings of Price and Fries,
    What? Oh i see, was a quote from that article. I mean that article is the very thing many of us here are pointing to(including the 2 articles this site has written about the situation) for double standards.

    Bill may have said he personally would have written the article the same way had genders been reversed but it's bs. He wouldn't have wrote anything about it.
    ohgodtherats707JeffSpicoliCaffynatedThahar

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • BladeburaibaBladeburaiba Member UncommonPosts: 118

    *snip* And then why was Fries fired? He was, for all I can surmise, loved by both fans and AN employees. Just to CYA and not get a law-suit for discrimination perhaps? *snip*


    This comment clearly shows your eye is blind.  Regardless of how "loved" Fries was, when they considered him to be a participant in JP's act, they fired him along with her.  To be fair, it couldn't be any other way.

    You are essentially using the fact that they acted consistently with their policies toward both, as evidence to speculate that they didn't, or didn't want to, with no corroboration.  That's an incredible twist.

    You really ought to self-examine your motivations to see if they are really what you think they are.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.
    I disagree.  Had she merely been civil, I don't think much would've come of this.  I sound like a broken record here, but EA gave the #NotMyBattlefield group the proverbial middle finger.  But they did it in a professional way, and no one batted an eye (well, except maybe the #NotMyBattlefield folks XD):

    "First, let me be clear about one thing. Player choice and female playable characters are here to stay."

    - Oskar Gabrielson, EA DICE

    Ironically enough, it was toxicity about an obvious sexist viewpoint, as the viewpoint had no basis in historical accuracy (one of Russia's most decorated snipers was female).  About the snarkiest he came off was this little (obviously sarcastic) bit about how ridiculous it was to even talk about "historical accuracy" in reference to the Battlefield series as already established:

    "The Battlefield sandbox has always been about playing the way you want. Like attempting to fit three players on a galloping horse, with flamethrowers. With BFV you also get the chance to play as who you want." (Emphasis mine)

    In even more irony (a sad bit), Price could benefit from mimicking a male studio exec about how to properly (read: professionally) address social issues and toxicity in gaming in a way that helps, not hurts, the cause.

    image
  • learis1learis1 Member UncommonPosts: 161
    You may view as a blunder. But it appears 99% of the posts here which represent the consumer side view it as the right thing to do.

    But I will say this though. I'm glad she got fired, but I don't know about the other guy. If all he did was just agree with her, then I don't think he should have been fired.
    Warhawke80

    Mend and Defend

  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 305
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.
    LOL WUT?? Nothing but hypocritical word smithing to fabricate victimhood and you should be ashamed to be pushing it as something as value to think about.

    a) it clearly wasn't unethical
    b) she wasnt in anyway harassed by the person she verbally assaulted with her own bigotry.
    c) It was far beyond "rude" even after the person died from cancer she has to press the attack one final time  informing the world of her glee that some innocent person was finally dead.
    d) it was not the first time she treated others like this.

    Yet maybe the worst part of the sewage you tossed into the fray is the fact they try to speak out against social media bully DEFENDING THE PERSON WHO WAS THE PERPETRATOR OF THE BULLYING. Price is the DEFINITION OF TOXIC.

    It was interesting....interesting how someone could be so delusional as to defend her actions and have the gall to pretend she was a victim somehow. The only chilling effect is that somehow these insidious individuals have managed to integrate themselves into the power structure of our world and even have tangible influence...truly frightening.
    JeffSpicolimarganculosYashaXCaffynatedThahar
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.


    You know, that is interesting that you brought up gamergate (I wasn't aware of it until years). One of the /r/guildwars2 threads I was reading there was a person questioning whether gamergate was right on its assessment regarding gaming press, considering how falsely and on a script the whole situation with guildwars2 is portrait.

    Gaming press has indeed lost considerable relevance over the years, exactly because they chose to push ideology over the facts.

    The reaction towards both your editorial pieces should be an indication on how people that are not necessarily invested in Anet feel. The same contrast is there between the reaction of Guildwars2 players and the gaming press.

    The bottom line was that the CEO of Anet had to choose between appeasing the players or the press. I think he made the right choice, but time will tell.
    AeandermarganculosYashaXCaffynated
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    edited July 2018
    Xasapis said:

    You know, that is interesting that you brought up gamergate (I wasn't aware of it until years). One of the /r/guildwars2 threads I was reading there was a person questioning whether gamergate was right on its assessment regarding gaming press, considering how falsely and on a script the whole situation with guildwars2 is portrait.

    Gaming press has indeed lost considerable relevance over the years, exactly because they chose to push ideology over the facts.

    The reaction towards both your editorial pieces should be an indication on how people that are not necessarily invested in Anet feel. The same contrast is there between the reaction of Guildwars2 players and the gaming press.

    The bottom line was that the CEO of Anet had to choose between appeasing the players or the press. I think he made the right choice, but time will tell.
    I didn't write that. I simply posted quotes from the link provided in the response I made. It's an interesting side light to the overall discussion. The people who wrote that article are not games press. 

    I don't have an opinion so let's not sling shade please. It's been a very reasonable discussion and I hope it stays that way. 

    @mmrv Again - I did NOT write that, simply provided a link and two quotes from the larger piece. Keep it civil, please. Whether we like it or not, people have a variety of opinions on the subject, so seeing all sides is a benefit to all of us even if we disagree.
    YashaX


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,853
    SBFord said:
    Xasapis said:

    You know, that is interesting that you brought up gamergate (I wasn't aware of it until years). One of the /r/guildwars2 threads I was reading there was a person questioning whether gamergate was right on its assessment regarding gaming press, considering how falsely and on a script the whole situation with guildwars2 is portrait.

    Gaming press has indeed lost considerable relevance over the years, exactly because they chose to push ideology over the facts.

    The reaction towards both your editorial pieces should be an indication on how people that are not necessarily invested in Anet feel. The same contrast is there between the reaction of Guildwars2 players and the gaming press.

    The bottom line was that the CEO of Anet had to choose between appeasing the players or the press. I think he made the right choice, but time will tell.
    I didn't write that. I simply posted quotes from the link provided in the response I made. It's an interesting side light to the overall discussion. The people who wrote that article are not games press. 

    I don't have an opinion so let's not sling shade please. It's been a very reasonable discussion and I hope it stays that way.
    Agreed. But I can understand his frustration. It seems like some kind of reversed bizarro world. I think the only real discussion should be about whether or not Anet punished her appropriately and if Piers was just collateral damage.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    SBFord
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 6,213
    SBFord said:
    Xasapis said:

    You know, that is interesting that you brought up gamergate (I wasn't aware of it until years). One of the /r/guildwars2 threads I was reading there was a person questioning whether gamergate was right on its assessment regarding gaming press, considering how falsely and on a script the whole situation with guildwars2 is portrait.

    Gaming press has indeed lost considerable relevance over the years, exactly because they chose to push ideology over the facts.

    The reaction towards both your editorial pieces should be an indication on how people that are not necessarily invested in Anet feel. The same contrast is there between the reaction of Guildwars2 players and the gaming press.

    The bottom line was that the CEO of Anet had to choose between appeasing the players or the press. I think he made the right choice, but time will tell.
    I didn't write that. I simply posted quotes from the link provided in the response I made. It's an interesting side light to the overall discussion. The people who wrote that article are not games press. 

    I don't have an opinion so let's not sling shade please. It's been a very reasonable discussion and I hope it stays that way. 

    @mmrv Again - I did NOT write that, simply provided a link and two quotes from the larger piece. Keep it civil, please.
    The problem is that the article that you provided was yet another biased and poorly researched outside perspective of the situation which pushes the same incorrect narrative that these threads have attempted to push in their OP's. 

    If you had wanted an actual neutral, comprehensive, level-headed analysis of the situation, you would have linked Woodenpotatoes' 57 minute video on the topic.
    JeffSpicoliYashaXCaffynatedThahar
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member RarePosts: 1,057
    First five points (of seven). I think point two encapsulates the majority opinion of the people defending this lady's behavior or trying to manipulate the narrative. Other than the person who responded wasn't an enemy, but was perceived as one for daring to try and start a conversation.

    ---Paxton, author of several books, including "The Anatomy of Fascism" (Vintage, 2005), said fascism is based more on feelings than philosophical ideas. In his 1988 essay "The Five Stages of Fascism," published in 1998 in the Journal of Modern History, he defined seven feelings that act as "mobilizing passions" for fascist regimes. They are:
    1 - The primacy of the group. Supporting the group feels more important than maintaining either individual or universal rights.
    2 - Believing that one's group is a victim. This justifies any behavior against the group's enemies.
    3 - The belief that individualism and liberalism enable dangerous decadence and have a negative effect on the group.
    4 - A strong sense of community or brotherhood. This brotherhood's "unity and purity are forged by common conviction, if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary."
    5 - Individual self-esteem is tied up in the grandeur of the group. Paxton called this an "enhanced sense of identity and belonging."---

    BuccaneermmrvFairlyRattled
  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 3,085

    Zenislav said:

    Woman is psycho that brings her own personal agenda and political opinions where she should not. What is deal with all this white knighting? Would media be this vocal if man was fired for similar reasons?



    yep i have been wondering the same thing....and we all know the answer.
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    I would understand if the article was about Fries. There you'd have a case where he may have enabled her bad behaviour and gave the impression that it was normalised, but at least he was not outright aggressive towards the players.


    Yet we see article after article about Price. Makes you wonder how privileged and pandered female developers are (as opposed to the narrative), to be such a horrible person and horrible at your work and still get defended for it.

    [Deleted User]marganculosYashaXCaffynatedThahar
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