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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,320
    Makadus said:
    Equality seems to be one of the issues here. You cuss and/or tell off a customer and your boss finds out, you get fired. No matter what, that goes equally for everyone. All this pondering of the character or correctness of others, such as "MO" while possibly accurate, has nothing to do with the event that happened and is a slippery slope as it is conjecture. Moral of story do not cuss at the people paying you, no matter who you think you are or who you think they are.
    Another one, welcome to the boards! This topic certainly seems to be bringing them out of the woodwork. :)
    Makadus

     25 Agrees

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  • zarekblackzarekblack Member UncommonPosts: 2
    But yet no mention that she accused someone of sexism or even insulted him calling him "rando asshat" or the fact that she acted rude to a point where she dropped the f bomb to another community member
    YashaX
  • barasawabarasawa Member UncommonPosts: 581
    Jessica was talking about the game on a non-private twitter that lists her as an employee of Arenanet about the game Guildwars 2. She attacked a polite commenter in an aggressive and uncalled for fashion. The commenter apologized and left the conversation.

    She however didn't stop and tried to stoke the flames, including making sexist claims which were completely and utterly uncalled for an inappropriate as there previously had been zero content that could be construed as even hinting at sexism.

    She has clearly shown herself to be a volatile and unstable bigot.
    Then Peter jumped in to defend her extremely indefensible statements and actions with statements that either show a willingness to lie, or a complete lack of understanding of the purpose of their communicating with the public as company representatives. And yes, they were absolutely company representatives by posting on those twitter accounts in public. I'll even guarantee that there is a clause in their contracts that clearly point that out as well.

    I've never worked for any place that would put up with her actions like that. Peters is almost forgivable for a newbie if he has no history of doing things like this, though I haven't looked up his past, he is in now way new and so can't use that excuse. Either way, they willing committed career suicide at that company by their own actions.

    What she did was text book "NEVER do this in public" stuff that will always get you fired! At least if anyone in the company finds out.

    Don't forget, we don't know what else those two have been up to in the company that may have black marks against them. Though we do know that Jessica had publicly bad mouthed a dead guy. I obviously don't know what Anet did over that, but I would completely expect them to put her on watch for something like that.

    I'm a lover of games. I have never worked for any of the companies involved. But I have worked at software companies, and I have had customer service training, and I have read the contracts I had to sign. There is no doubt in my mind that she violated a LOT of company rules and got canned because of it. Heck, even if that had been a private correspondence and a higher up in the company saw it, you'd get the boot. Significantly more true for it having been in public.

    Just one more note on that, a social media account that anybody off the street can comment on isn't private. If anyone can view it, it's also not private. When both are true, you have to be seriously mentally deficient to imagine that it isn't public.

    Don't lie to the public. Don't attack the public. Don't escalate a situation.

    In all my time of dealing with people for my companies I worked at, there is only one time they wanted to discuss with me my actions over a call with an abusive person. Even though they had the recordings, they needed my signature on the paperwork as well. They "fired" the customer. That means they later contacted the customer to tell them all licenses for our software were revoked, they'd have to uninstall all of them, and never use our software again! It really does happen! I know that's rather the reverse of the situation with them, but it goes to show that even in such extreme circumstances as I was in, someone who is known to get very defensive, it's possible to act appropriately and try to defuse the situation rather than intentionally escalate it on the companies side.

    I've typed far too much for this forum, and I know my skills at explaining this kind of stuff isn't very good, but I hope it made sense to anyone that's read this far. And just to let you know, I have read all the tweets by Deroir, Jessica Price, and Peter Fries that were part of this incident, as well as those they directly replied to, and this includes the ones they later deleted. (Thanks to all the people that archived the whole thing!). So I do know what was discussed, and how. I also noticed that many 'articles' on this are not showing the complete tweets much less all the tweets in a blatant attempt to make her look victimized. She is definitely the bully in this, and attempts to make her look otherwise are very disingenuous of them.

    Sorry, getting too verbose again. (Still?) I'll shut up here and leave this thread with one final note. If you have any interest at all in any of this incident or it's participants, do yourself a favor and research the actual tweets. ALL OF THEM. Don't let people posting articles or comments about it show you a limited and distorted view of it. Get the whole story.
    MakadusetlarMontyBrewsterYashaXMazingerZThahar

    Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  • druezdruez Member UncommonPosts: 95
    One thing people forget.  In the USA freedom of speech isn't freedom of consequence.  You have the right to say what you want.  You don't have the right to be free of the consequences of said speech. 
    MakadusSBFordYashaXThahar
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 704
    edited July 2018
    This all just seems like we're losing the ability to think and speak critically. How many of us get our news, by just reading headlines? The attention grabbing BS of the story....

    Anyone can be a blogger or 'journalist', but how many know of the rules that go along with it? There are systems and rules in place to keep the 'news clean.'

    A bad example, but I remember the news scenes from "good night, and good luck," and David Straithairn's portrayal of Edward R. Murrow. When he reported a news story, he reported the facts. He didn't embellish, he didn't spew vitriol for ratings. He provided the facts and left it up to the listeners to add their own slants to what they heard.

    Now it's hard to hear news without wondering who owns them and what their agendas are, or if we already know "Fox vs. CNN" we know their agendas.

    The government provided the infrastructure that the media/network companies used, and they were allowed to entertain and advertise as much as they wanted. This was ALLOWED, because they had a stipulation of setting aside airtime each night at set times to provide the nation with news, and nothing but the news.

    Now we get sensationalized entertainment with news mixed in. Now we get news based on what's trending and what will get 'hits' as opposed to the facts we may need to hear. How much important stuff are we missing, because they let all the fluff get in the way...

    But what can we expect, as all of our politicians live sensationalized lives, instead of keeping their noses to the grindstone and keeping the cogs turning for all of our betterment.

    People have forgotten how to think before they speak/act, and it's the norm.

    People are getting tired of hearing and reading trash all the time, and are pushing back.

    People will continue to get fired for being stupid, and it's easier to be stupid now than ever before.

    Gut Out!


    SBFordMisterZebub

    What, me worry?

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,543
    Gutlard said:
    This all just seems like we're losing the ability to think and speak critically. How many of us get our news, by just reading headlines? The attention grabbing BS of the story....

    Anyone can be a blogger or 'journalist', but how many know of the rules that go along with it? There are systems and rules in place to keep the 'news clean.'

    A bad example, but I remember the news scenes from "good night, and good luck," and David Straithairn's portrayal of Edward R. Murrow. When he reported a news story, he reported the facts. He didn't embellish, he didn't spew vitriol for ratings. He provided the facts and left it up to the listeners to add their own slants to what they heard.

    Now it's hard to hear news without wondering who owns them and what their agendas are, or if we already know "Fox vs. CNN" we know their agendas.

    The government provided the infrastructure that the media/network companies used, and they were allowed to entertain and advertise as much as they wanted. This was ALLOWED, because they had a stipulation of setting aside airtime each night at set times to provide the nation with news, and nothing but the news.

    Now we get sensationalized entertainment with news mixed in. Now we get news based on what's trending and what will get 'hits' as opposed to the facts we may need to hear. How much important stuff are we missing, because they let all the fluff get in the way...

    But what can we expect, as all of our politicians live sensationalized lives, instead of keeping their noses to the grindstone and keeping the cogs turning for all of our betterment.

    People have forgotten how to think before they speak/act, and it's the norm.

    People are getting tired of hearing and reading trash all the time, and are pushing back.

    People will continue to get fired for being stupid, and it's easier to be stupid now than ever before.

    Gut Out!


    Well, I think a good lesson to be learned here is that, in fact, most people are pretty stupid. And with the coming of the internet they can now display that stupidity to the entire world. I like it, it makes me feel smarter.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    SBFordTorvalGutlard
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 282
    edited July 2018




    These types of articles and the gaming media's response in general are the very reason terms like SJW and feminist have garnered a negative connotation.  This is why trust in mainstream media is at an all-time low in America.

    You can't fight fire with fire here.  Specifically when that fire is not even controlled, but sprayed about ignorantly, setting the entire village aflame with no regard as to who gets burned.


    I'm actually trying to look at it from all sides. And it seems to me that the only person who really got "hurt" from all this may have been Peter Fries. 



    You keep saying this type of things on the forum replies but its clear from anyone objectively reading your article that its simply not true Bill. Your entire article tried to switch the blame to A-net, at every opportunity tried to marginalize HER behavior She was FAR BEYOND "a little rude" she was factually a sexist bigot and down right evil "glad they are dead". I am not sure how you can defend her hate speech....actually I do know you are in the same twisted ideology camp. Sorry we all know this article's tone would have been far different if it was a male (hell you wrote it about her not the man who was fired for doing far far far less need I say more?) it came through very clear in your overt bias in the article. Oddly enough most every reply you have made literally contradicts the tone and statements of your article.

    The pandering doesnt stop either as you push the same SJW crap we are all tired of erroneously being shoved down our throats example? Your assumption she had to endure terrible treatment as a women in gaming... please stop with this epic distortions and flat out misinformation, you know nothing of her treatment yet assumed it was poor?? in the process condemning males in a bigoted way the assumption being "hurr derr guys are sexist jerks who treat women poorly".

    Its about time all of these wacko leftists start getting consequences for their outrageous hateful speech the double standard in this country has become sickening where people on the left say the most vile things about others and even advocate violence against people whom they disagree with and nothing is done to curb the behavior so it just keeps getting worse each passing day.
    IselinCaffynated
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,536
    Aeander said:
    This shouldn't even be controversial. The fastest way to get fired at any company is to disrespect customers. That is what JP did. That is why she was fired. End of story.
    I don't think it's that simple in this case. And then why was Fries fired? He was, for all I can surmise, loved by both fans and AN employees. Just to CYA and not get a law-suit for discrimination perhaps? The whole thing stinks, and has potential implications for devs at all companies moving forward. 

    Bullshit Bill. The only thing that stinks is the gaming media's inability to take what these people did at face value, due to the main perpetrator in question being a woman. "Oh well maybe she had some ulterior motive for being an asshole..." Yeah you know I'm sure every asshole in the world believes that about themselves. That in no way changes the fact its wrong, and that there are serious consequences about publicly behaving like, and I can't use this term enough here, an ASSHOLE.

    Why was Fries fired? He jumped in and not only supported JP's off base and totally nasty behavior, he also reinforced JP's opinion that fans are contemptibly beneath being worthy to give feedback to the company. Do you seriously not understand what a dick move that was?
    I can't argue with this, either.

    However, if I were in that position, depending upon the specific content of Fries' comments, I would have considered a lesser reprimand.  Specifically (and I know, hindsight is 20/20) considering MO is getting grilled as allowing gender roles to color his decision anyways.  If Fries wasn't confrontational with customers as Price was (though I get the feeling he may have been from those who say they saw his comments), and he didn't have an internal record of corrective action being needed, I think a lesser punishment would've been more appropriate.

    But again, I didn't get to read the tweets that have, apparently, now been deleted.  Their content would dictate a lot in how the company should (and seemingly did) react.
    Oh my paws and whiskers, you little scamps and your lack of training in Google Fu. HERE are the deleted tweets.

    Now were his comments by themselves excessively rude? No not really. But what he actually did by defending Price's dickhead behavior was to send a double barreled "fuck you", to Deroir and any other fan who might have taken offense, making himself just as culpable of bad behavior as Price.
    I'm conflicted.  On the one hand, I can see what you're saying here.  On the other, if Fries had no precious instances of insubordination, I feel like ending his career might've been a strong move somewhat spurred by fears that allowing him to continue working there would've only fueled the gender bias fantasy Price has been pushing about the situation and gave it false legitimacy in the eyes of many...  That's much tougher call to make than the handling of Price herself.
    Here (see below) is the exact bad behavior he was condoning by defending Price. There is no grey area here. By telling Dreoir and everyone else their input was not asked for, and therefore unwelcome, he is reinforcing Price's opinion that their fans are nothing but "rando asshats" who the development staff does not respect and don't have to pretend to like in their private time. I mean I get the empathy for the guy's career, but still, why is this so hard for people to understand? Fries is not a sacrificial lamb or innocent bystander, he's a co-conspirator.


    Also Emotional Courtesan would have made for a kick ass 80s new wave band name.

    "Tonight on Saturday Night Live, guest host Steve Martin, with musical guests, Emotional Courtesan and Spandau Ballet!!!"
    MakadusMadFrenchieDakeruYashaXThahar

    "But the band plays Waltzing Matilda
    And the old men still answer the call
    But as year follows year, more old men grow fewer
    Someday no one will march there at all?"

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited July 2018
    Iselin said:

    Just think about it. In your own work lives - whatever you do - you know for a fact that you know what you're doing much more than your customers do and it's actually pretty rare to get some useful feedback from them. How often do you tell your customers that? And if you do it often, how long did your business last?

    That's the thing about customer feedback: they don't know the internal workings, but it does not make it useless.  Anyone specifically trained in the customer experience will tell you that a customer's feedback is rooted in something that makes sense to them.  Often times, merely explaining the underlying reasoning why their feedback is flawed and/or cannot be acted upon will cause the customer to recognize there are items they are not privy to.

    Belittling the customer will do nothing good for the company.  It really doesn't matter what the comment is; again, speaking from my time as an adjuster (as that's the best perspective I can offer here), our female adjusters endured blatant and outright sexism in the form of, "You're a woman, so you can't do your job.  Get me a man."  They weren't given license to blow up on the customer or start ranting about the larger societal issue: they were trained to explain to the customer that they received all of the same training, knowledge, and instruction as their male counterparts and that their male counterparts would undoubtedly back them up on the fact that they are as qualified, as a female adjuster, as any male adjuster in the office.

    You'll notice that doesn't include putting said customer on blast personally in the public space.
    Torval

    image
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 282

    SBFord said:


    thunderC said:

    Another article on this crazy woman who got fired from A-Net, Wasn't the last thread of 12 pages of circle jerking enough? She got what she deserved . Gaming Journalist need to stick to GAMING , If you want to talk politics get a job at one of the major news stations or apply to the Washington Post.

    This IS about gaming. ArenaNet? Guild Wars 2? Game Developer? Not tooooooo hard to connect the dots. Gaming is more than just the actual games themselves.

    That said, I'm quite sure we don't know the entire story and, so far anyway, have only heard Price's retelling. Nobody wins here, especially Fries who was sticking up for someone who's probably his friend, even if somewhat lacking in diplomacy, and got the ax for it which was way over the top.

    I personally can't wait for the next news cycle to bury it.



    Disagree the fans win, good people win, and A-net wins for standing up to a sexist evil minded bigoted bully.. there are plenty of capable developers to take her place the game will be just fine without the two of them and possibly even better without the constant virtue signaling being inserted to push a personal agenda.
    Warhawke80Caffynated
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Aeander said:
    This shouldn't even be controversial. The fastest way to get fired at any company is to disrespect customers. That is what JP did. That is why she was fired. End of story.
    I don't think it's that simple in this case. And then why was Fries fired? He was, for all I can surmise, loved by both fans and AN employees. Just to CYA and not get a law-suit for discrimination perhaps? The whole thing stinks, and has potential implications for devs at all companies moving forward. 

    Bullshit Bill. The only thing that stinks is the gaming media's inability to take what these people did at face value, due to the main perpetrator in question being a woman. "Oh well maybe she had some ulterior motive for being an asshole..." Yeah you know I'm sure every asshole in the world believes that about themselves. That in no way changes the fact its wrong, and that there are serious consequences about publicly behaving like, and I can't use this term enough here, an ASSHOLE.

    Why was Fries fired? He jumped in and not only supported JP's off base and totally nasty behavior, he also reinforced JP's opinion that fans are contemptibly beneath being worthy to give feedback to the company. Do you seriously not understand what a dick move that was?
    I can't argue with this, either.

    However, if I were in that position, depending upon the specific content of Fries' comments, I would have considered a lesser reprimand.  Specifically (and I know, hindsight is 20/20) considering MO is getting grilled as allowing gender roles to color his decision anyways.  If Fries wasn't confrontational with customers as Price was (though I get the feeling he may have been from those who say they saw his comments), and he didn't have an internal record of corrective action being needed, I think a lesser punishment would've been more appropriate.

    But again, I didn't get to read the tweets that have, apparently, now been deleted.  Their content would dictate a lot in how the company should (and seemingly did) react.
    Oh my paws and whiskers, you little scamps and your lack of training in Google Fu. HERE are the deleted tweets.

    Now were his comments by themselves excessively rude? No not really. But what he actually did by defending Price's dickhead behavior was to send a double barreled "fuck you", to Deroir and any other fan who might have taken offense, making himself just as culpable of bad behavior as Price.
    I'm conflicted.  On the one hand, I can see what you're saying here.  On the other, if Fries had no precious instances of insubordination, I feel like ending his career might've been a strong move somewhat spurred by fears that allowing him to continue working there would've only fueled the gender bias fantasy Price has been pushing about the situation and gave it false legitimacy in the eyes of many...  That's much tougher call to make than the handling of Price herself.
    Here (see below) is the exact bad behavior he was condoning by defending Price. There is no grey area here. By telling Dreoir and everyone else their input was not asked for, and therefore unwelcome, he is reinforcing Price's opinion that their fans are nothing but "rando asshats" who the development staff does not respect and don't have to pretend to like in their private time. I mean I get the empathy for the guy's career, but still, why is this so hard for people to understand? Fries is not a sacrificial lamb or innocent bystander, he's a co-conspirator.


    Also Emotional Courtesan would have made for a kick ass 80s new wave band name.

    "Tonight on Saturday Night Live, guest host Steve Martin, with musical guests, Emotional Courtesan and Spandau Ballet!!!"
    Again, I understand that point.  However, as you say, I also have empathy for ending someone's career.  That's livelihood for him and his family.  I'm not saying ArenaNet is wrong (hell, Fries may have given the company an ultimatum to the effect of "If she goes, I'm going too," to which they responded: "Bye bye then."), but he wasn't actively bashing a member of the community as Price did.  His comments may have made him complicit with hers, but I feel that, barring any internal knowledge we don't have to the contrary, Fries could've received a less...  Final corrective action.
    YashaXRain_Deathraven

    image
  • ohgodtherats707ohgodtherats707 Member UncommonPosts: 85
    Yup not even surprised this site defends that scum way to earn that Cuck hat Bill.  You know the moment you gloat over someone who died of cancer, anything that happens after that is called karma!!  Also going to take this opportunity to point out this is yet another example of this website being one sided and I really wouldn't be surprised if i got another ban threat for merely pointing that out. 
    mmrvMontyBrewsterCaffynatedThahar
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,303
    I might also add that her statement on "not having to pretend to like you on her personal time" takes on a whole new meaning when you consider the target. 

    The target, Deroir, was an official partner and a popular streamer. He represents not only a large subset of the fans, but the lore community that should be able to communicate with Price in particular. She publicly and in no uncertain terms called into question the relationship of her and the company she represents with not only their regular fans, but also the very partners who promote their products. The importance of that insult and the damage it could do to Anet's community PR and sponsorships cannot be overstated.

    If we take Price at her word, is everyone pretending to like Deroir? What about Woodenpotatoes? Or any other community ambassador? 
    MisterZebubYashaX
  • ShinamiShinami Member UncommonPosts: 825
    I didn't think much of this until a person posted a convincing argument about ArenaNet's Prowess with Internet technologies since the first Guild Wars game was created. A point was made that Anet was one of the few companies that actually knew how to use the internet in spades to increase awareness and sell their products.

    The argument made was that people from the outside hardly know what occurs inside a company or vice versa with their playerbase. However, it is very easy to do the following:

    (paraphrased from the original poster)

    1) Create a name regardless if a person exists or not.
    2) Create a character profile and a script that is given to a person to perform the part.
    3) Roleplay the scenario in practice and then go live with it.
    4) Complete the Act resulting in the president of the company become a "Hero to the People" and positive press spreading on behalf of the company.

    Further note on this matter was the sentence:

    "One can not prove that this was an act to get the public's attention, but one can not equally prove that this wasn't, and due to how secretive companies are with their internals and their public relations plans, this wouldn't be the first time specifically that a gaming developer has been caught pulling a stunt like this"

    Another part that fuels the argument is the extreme rarity of ever seeing a woman directly initiate sexism as a cover for a professional basis. In fact, the issue is so rare that I spent time going over case law out of curiosity to find when a woman has done the same and in analyzing countless cases I could only find one other example that was similar to this one.

    While such a person was flamed
    I often enjoy seeing Alternate Theories of a case and a fresh perspective regardless if its intelligent or moronic.


    SBFord
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,536
    Aeander said:
    This shouldn't even be controversial. The fastest way to get fired at any company is to disrespect customers. That is what JP did. That is why she was fired. End of story.
    I don't think it's that simple in this case. And then why was Fries fired? He was, for all I can surmise, loved by both fans and AN employees. Just to CYA and not get a law-suit for discrimination perhaps? The whole thing stinks, and has potential implications for devs at all companies moving forward. 

    Bullshit Bill. The only thing that stinks is the gaming media's inability to take what these people did at face value, due to the main perpetrator in question being a woman. "Oh well maybe she had some ulterior motive for being an asshole..." Yeah you know I'm sure every asshole in the world believes that about themselves. That in no way changes the fact its wrong, and that there are serious consequences about publicly behaving like, and I can't use this term enough here, an ASSHOLE.

    Why was Fries fired? He jumped in and not only supported JP's off base and totally nasty behavior, he also reinforced JP's opinion that fans are contemptibly beneath being worthy to give feedback to the company. Do you seriously not understand what a dick move that was?
    I can't argue with this, either.

    However, if I were in that position, depending upon the specific content of Fries' comments, I would have considered a lesser reprimand.  Specifically (and I know, hindsight is 20/20) considering MO is getting grilled as allowing gender roles to color his decision anyways.  If Fries wasn't confrontational with customers as Price was (though I get the feeling he may have been from those who say they saw his comments), and he didn't have an internal record of corrective action being needed, I think a lesser punishment would've been more appropriate.

    But again, I didn't get to read the tweets that have, apparently, now been deleted.  Their content would dictate a lot in how the company should (and seemingly did) react.
    Oh my paws and whiskers, you little scamps and your lack of training in Google Fu. HERE are the deleted tweets.

    Now were his comments by themselves excessively rude? No not really. But what he actually did by defending Price's dickhead behavior was to send a double barreled "fuck you", to Deroir and any other fan who might have taken offense, making himself just as culpable of bad behavior as Price.
    I'm conflicted.  On the one hand, I can see what you're saying here.  On the other, if Fries had no precious instances of insubordination, I feel like ending his career might've been a strong move somewhat spurred by fears that allowing him to continue working there would've only fueled the gender bias fantasy Price has been pushing about the situation and gave it false legitimacy in the eyes of many...  That's much tougher call to make than the handling of Price herself.
    Here (see below) is the exact bad behavior he was condoning by defending Price. There is no grey area here. By telling Dreoir and everyone else their input was not asked for, and therefore unwelcome, he is reinforcing Price's opinion that their fans are nothing but "rando asshats" who the development staff does not respect and don't have to pretend to like in their private time. I mean I get the empathy for the guy's career, but still, why is this so hard for people to understand? Fries is not a sacrificial lamb or innocent bystander, he's a co-conspirator.


    Also Emotional Courtesan would have made for a kick ass 80s new wave band name.

    "Tonight on Saturday Night Live, guest host Steve Martin, with musical guests, Emotional Courtesan and Spandau Ballet!!!"
    Again, I understand that point.  However, as you say, I also have empathy for ending someone's career.  That's livelihood for him and his family.  I'm not saying ArenaNet is wrong (hell, Fries may have given the company an ultimatum to the effect of "If she goes, I'm going too," to which they responded: "Bye bye then."), but he wasn't actively bashing a member of the community as Price did.  His comments may have made him complicit with hers, but I feel that, barring any internal knowledge we don't have to the contrary, Fries could've received a less...  Final corrective action.
    Well then we'll just have to agree to disagree, you rando asshat you. :D
    MadFrenchieSBFord

    "But the band plays Waltzing Matilda
    And the old men still answer the call
    But as year follows year, more old men grow fewer
    Someday no one will march there at all?"

  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,536
    Gutlard said:
    This all just seems like we're losing the ability to think and speak critically. How many of us get our news, by just reading headlines? The attention grabbing BS of the story....

    Anyone can be a blogger or 'journalist', but how many know of the rules that go along with it? There are systems and rules in place to keep the 'news clean.'

    A bad example, but I remember the news scenes from "good night, and good luck," and David Straithairn's portrayal of Edward R. Murrow. When he reported a news story, he reported the facts. He didn't embellish, he didn't spew vitriol for ratings. He provided the facts and left it up to the listeners to add their own slants to what they heard.

    Now it's hard to hear news without wondering who owns them and what their agendas are, or if we already know "Fox vs. CNN" we know their agendas.

    The government provided the infrastructure that the media/network companies used, and they were allowed to entertain and advertise as much as they wanted. This was ALLOWED, because they had a stipulation of setting aside airtime each night at set times to provide the nation with news, and nothing but the news.

    Now we get sensationalized entertainment with news mixed in. Now we get news based on what's trending and what will get 'hits' as opposed to the facts we may need to hear. How much important stuff are we missing, because they let all the fluff get in the way...

    But what can we expect, as all of our politicians live sensationalized lives, instead of keeping their noses to the grindstone and keeping the cogs turning for all of our betterment.

    People have forgotten how to think before they speak/act, and it's the norm.

    People are getting tired of hearing and reading trash all the time, and are pushing back.

    People will continue to get fired for being stupid, and it's easier to be stupid now than ever before.

    Gut Out!



    TorvalGutlardDakeruYashaXScot

    "But the band plays Waltzing Matilda
    And the old men still answer the call
    But as year follows year, more old men grow fewer
    Someday no one will march there at all?"

  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 33,115
    edited July 2018


    Also Emotional Courtesan would have made for a kick ass 80s new wave band name.

    "Tonight on Saturday Night Live, guest host Steve Martin, with musical guests, Emotional Courtesan and Spandau Ballet!!!"
    So much this. I swear, I love your commentary for all the little nuggets of giggles you leave behind in what can sometimes be an overly-serious discussion. Thank you for that. In this world these days, that's a precious, precious commodity. <3
    TorvalrertezMisterZebub


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 33,115
    edited July 2018
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.


    YashaXRain_Deathravenn3v3rriv3rCaffynated


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • barezzbarezz Member UncommonPosts: 143
    Without wading in too deeply here, one thing that I noticed was this attitude of being upset that someone would reply/comment on something that is posted on a "personal twitter page". Here is the thing, social media is not a blog. While facebook or twitter allows you to have "your" own page, it is not a private space unless you take some sort of security measure. If you allow people to friend you, follow you, or have your tweets/posts set to public, then what you type on your private page goes public, and that is not even counting shares or retweets.

    So suddenly your "private" thing from your page is not on someone else's "private" feed, and they can comment with the click of a button. That is literally "working as designed". If you want to post something without getting feedback it involves some work, but that also means you can't get a billion likes or retweets, which we all know is what life is all about ;).

    I tell this to people all of the time, if you want to post in a medium and not allow just anyone to comment, get a blog and turn comment approval on. And post away to your heart's content.
    SBFord
  • JakeSimJakeSim Member RarePosts: 871
    edited July 2018
    zzz. She fucked up. Enough said. Plus her view on TotalBiscuit is disgusting. That alone should have caused backlash.
    Please come check out my stream. All the love is appreciated! 

    TWITCH: @JakeSimTV
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,303
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.
    All I see is yet another ill-researched and fuckheaded opinion piece with no regards to basic business PR. 

    Price was not entitled to a reprimand, warning, or lesser punishment. Certain offences are, in fact, worthy of instant termination in the real world, and face-to-face public disrespect to a customer would be considered one of those by most respectable corporations. 

    There was nothing unethical about these firings. Mike's leadership was by no means inadequate here. No amount of media soapboxing and narrative spinning is going to change normal, objective reality. 
    Post edited by Aeander on
    Caffynated
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:


    The unethical firings of Price and Fries,
    What? Oh i see, was a quote from that article. I mean that article is the very thing many of us here are pointing to(including the 2 articles this site has written about the situation) for double standards.

    Bill may have said he personally would have written the article the same way had genders been reversed but it's bs. He wouldn't have wrote anything about it.
    ohgodtherats707MontyBrewsterCaffynatedThahar

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,536
    SBFord said:


    Also Emotional Courtesan would have made for a kick ass 80s new wave band name.

    "Tonight on Saturday Night Live, guest host Steve Martin, with musical guests, Emotional Courtesan and Spandau Ballet!!!"
    So much this. I swear, I love your commentary for all the little nuggets of giggles you leave behind in what can sometimes be an overly-serious discussion. Thank you for that. In this world these days, that's a precious, precious commodity. <3

    Thanks and you're welcome! I enjoy writing to entertain as much as to pass on and gain knowledge and insight.

    SBFord

    "But the band plays Waltzing Matilda
    And the old men still answer the call
    But as year follows year, more old men grow fewer
    Someday no one will march there at all?"

  • BladeburaibaBladeburaiba Member UncommonPosts: 68

    *snip* And then why was Fries fired? He was, for all I can surmise, loved by both fans and AN employees. Just to CYA and not get a law-suit for discrimination perhaps? *snip*


    This comment clearly shows your eye is blind.  Regardless of how "loved" Fries was, when they considered him to be a participant in JP's act, they fired him along with her.  To be fair, it couldn't be any other way.

    You are essentially using the fact that they acted consistently with their policies toward both, as evidence to speculate that they didn't, or didn't want to, with no corroboration.  That's an incredible twist.

    You really ought to self-examine your motivations to see if they are really what you think they are.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.
    I disagree.  Had she merely been civil, I don't think much would've come of this.  I sound like a broken record here, but EA gave the #NotMyBattlefield group the proverbial middle finger.  But they did it in a professional way, and no one batted an eye (well, except maybe the #NotMyBattlefield folks XD):

    "First, let me be clear about one thing. Player choice and female playable characters are here to stay."

    - Oskar Gabrielson, EA DICE

    Ironically enough, it was toxicity about an obvious sexist viewpoint, as the viewpoint had no basis in historical accuracy (one of Russia's most decorated snipers was female).  About the snarkiest he came off was this little (obviously sarcastic) bit about how ridiculous it was to even talk about "historical accuracy" in reference to the Battlefield series as already established:

    "The Battlefield sandbox has always been about playing the way you want. Like attempting to fit three players on a galloping horse, with flamethrowers. With BFV you also get the chance to play as who you want." (Emphasis mine)

    In even more irony (a sad bit), Price could benefit from mimicking a male studio exec about how to properly (read: professionally) address social issues and toxicity in gaming in a way that helps, not hurts, the cause.

    image
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