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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,154
    Ridelynn said:
    What she said was crass, from a PR standpoint. If she was "speaking for the company" - I don't know, the line gets a bit blurred there. I thought she was on her personal twitter handle, not an official ANet handle - which should count for something. Losing their jobs may be a bit much, but I can also understand where ANet didn't want to alienate a playerbase over the personal comments of a developer.

    On the other hand - I don't understand why she felt the need to bring up that she was a woman? She does have her name in the news a bit, she's not a complete unknown in certain circles so it wouldn't be hard to find out... But... but the conversation that I saw didn't have anything to do with sexism or race or sexuality or anything else, it was just about writing games. It was, from what I can see, Jessica that deliberately and definitely took it to that place. And that was the line that got crossed, in my mind. 

    She may get frustrated, it's easy to armchair quarterback or backseat drive or whatever you want to call it, when you aren't the one in the hotseat. But Jessica took that slight in the wrong direction. She may not have deserved to get fired over it, but something had to be done by ANet, I don't think doing nothing was the right answer. I could see a few weeks leave (maybe paid but that part kept out of the release) and privately offer therapy/counseling if they wanted to keep her around. But I can also just see getting rid of her as being the easy option, and I don't necessarily fault ANet for going that way.

    The other guy.. yeah. That was just housekeeping on ANets part there. I agree with that one even less, but again, I don't think ANet could just sit back and do nothing, or just leave Jessica out to dry by herself.

    It's not good PR for ANet any which way you look at it. Jessica screwed up, I don't think there's any doubt about that. The other guy amplified it, which certainly didn't help. It probably would have been a minor wrinkle and maybe warrant a post over here from the Anti-GW2 "OMG IT ISN"T GW1 part duex" crowd, but that's just speculation and it's hard to say which way it could go -- all it takes is the right person picking it up on the right media and *poof* it's viral with severe ramifications. With the firing it becomes an editorial on the front page, hits out on Kotaku, and gets a lot more public, but at least ANet is more in control of the narrative there. I don't think there was any way to keep this completely silent... maybe cutting out the cancer is the fastest way to recovery, but it sure seems like a bitter pill to have to swallow.

    Bottom line - I'm still playing GW2. I may even go out and buy some Gems tonight to support them. Jessica was a talented developer, but she has a chip on her shoulder (probably rightly so, I won't deny that much) and she just reacted very inappropriately to something that I didn't see in that discussion. ANet has a pile of crap to deal with, because of her direct action, and they are trying their best to shovel that out and clean up the mess.
    The narrative on Kotaku on the issue was completely bias against Anet. It was a one-sided bashing of the company in favor of Price so they had no control of the narrative.
    RidelynnMadFrenchie
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    I think the only ones believing an internet mob can get someone fired aren't really paying attention to anything but this particular instance to build that narrative, and ignoring or downplaying the facts of Price's behavior to do so.
    YashaXMisterZebubRain_Deathraven

    image
  • HargusHargus Member UncommonPosts: 1
    Before giving her the victim card the following should have been posted as well:

    1) The original tweets, (I read them all) and it would show the opposite of why the games media is giving her the victim card and they are archived so if you do some digging you would find them.

    2) She has a prior history of posting nasty, hate filled comments before (e.g. Total Biscuits passing from terminal cancer) and a slew of others.

    3) The person involved was a sponsored streamer of Arenanet. who just wanted a civil and respectful conversation and had a different point of view that might have brought up something the could be beneficial to improve the game or at least the industry if she gave him the time of day and listened. at no point he was being aggressive towards her, or "Mansplaining" anything.

    4) the nitwit (Yes, i am calling him that for actions taken) should have kept his mouth shut and she dug her own grave and then she dragged him into it. I can understand backing up people, but when people are wrong they should stand on their own and deal with it themselves.

    All in all the games media gave her a free victim card for her wrongdoing, and everyone else is suppose to accept it? well I am not accepting it and neither should anyone else as it was wrong to reward her for actions she took.
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,564
    I just want to take a moment to say: I love that this discussion is actually going well, with reasonable thought out responses and stances. And I won't be glad any of you die when you die, nor will I tweet about it.

    :D
    Fuck you Bill, die in a fire .... oh wait, was that over the line? Its so hard to tell these days. KIDDING OF COURSE!!!!

    I find it sad that here we are, an internet community, having a discussion, maybe with some passion, yet without immediately going for each other's throats, all over some pretentious prick that couldn't be bothered to give what was an apparent fan the time of day. It truly galls me that so many media outlets are twisting this story into some warped manifesto that online communities are evil, instead of placing the blame on the one uncivil asshole that started this mess.
    BillMurphyMadFrenchieYashaXCaffynated

    "You can go to land of make believe and you can pretend
    But in the end you still have no friends"

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,799
    edited July 2018
    Aori said:
    Ridelynn said:
    ...
    The narrative on Kotaku on the issue was completely bias against Anet. It was a one-sided bashing of the company in favor of Price so they had no control of the narrative.
    Oh I agree with that one - won't say it's perfect, and there is no completely controlling the situation.

    Then again, Kotaku would take that stance: they do continue to employ one of the key players (Nathan Grayson). And he happened to be the one to write the article covering ANet and Jessica...
  • NindrahaNindraha Member CommonPosts: 2
    In business the is rule that customers is always right. When said employee insult their customers base said employee should be terminate with out question. in this case the employer did right move, by keep said employee you distance your customer base and make them want to leave this could lose large source of money a game is about make money. JP act quite stuck up because she use her position to build her political view.
  • velitevelite Member UncommonPosts: 2
    If Peter Fries wasnt fired as well, you would be typing an article right now of how Mike O'Brien and Anet are sexists for firing only the woman.
    MazingerZCaffynated
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,483
    edited July 2018
    I just want to take a moment to say: I love that this discussion is actually going well, with reasonable thought out responses and stances. And I won't be glad any of you die when you die, nor will I tweet about it.

    :D
    Fuck you Bill, die in a fire .... oh wait, was that over the line? Its so hard to tell these days. KIDDING OF COURSE!!!!

    I find it sad that here we are, an internet community, having a discussion, maybe with some passion, yet without immediately going for each other's throats, all over some pretentious prick that couldn't be bothered to give what was an apparent fan the time of day. It truly galls me that so many media outlets are twisting this story into some warped manifesto that online communities are evil, instead of placing the blame on the one uncivil asshole that started this mess.
    The problem is that women getting harassed on Twitter (apart from actually happening) has become a narrative. That is the primary factor in putting something in most the news media I see now. Not is it news, is it factual? But is it a narrative that has done the rounds before or can we make one out of it? Here is something new that has happened, do we have a narrative for it? Yes. Lets run with that.
    MisterZebubMazingerZ

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  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,731
    It's less a blunder for Anet as a whole, as I don't think many actually defend what Price did. 

    But it still becomes a cautionary tale for any of the other developers about the risks they take when dealing with the public with their personal social accounts, and how a single tweet or post can end your job.

    While I expect a lot of Devs across all games to Lock down their social media, which just strikes me as a common sense thing to do, and leave the PR wrangling to the Pros.

    I don't think this will lessen the Official Communication between game companies and their community. 


    MisterZebub
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,560
    velite said:
    If Peter Fries wasnt fired as well, you would be typing an article right now of how Mike O'Brien and Anet are sexists for firing only the woman.
    I personally wouldn't, but I bet others would have, and I THINK you've hit the nail on the head for why Peter got canned too. 
    ScotEponyxDamorYashaXDakeru

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • Cyber_wastelandCyber_wasteland Member UncommonPosts: 178
    I first saw all of this on reddit with her being fired and what she said, I also saw the tweets and read what started it all. In no way was DeroirGaming being disrespectful, he never brought gender in to it or even hinted towards gender. He was talking about the game, and gave an opinion on her topic. A rather thought out and intelligent opinion.
    Yet all she could do was come back at him with a smart ass remark instead of showing her skill and talent with explaining why it can not happen, or adding to what he had to say.

    If a woman had made the comments that DeroirGaming had made I can safely bet all the monies that she would have engaged positively towards that person and made intelligent replies showing fans a deeper look in to her job, that i'm sure GW2 fans want to see.

    Drama is all this is, its going to stay drama until we all move on from it. She has been fired and honestly she needed to, it was uncalled for.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,483
    edited July 2018
    velite said:
    If Peter Fries wasnt fired as well, you would be typing an article right now of how Mike O'Brien and Anet are sexists for firing only the woman.
    I personally wouldn't, but I bet others would have, and I THINK you've hit the nail on the head for why Peter got canned too. 
    This is what I think too, but we have no right to know and we honestly don't know. Many people following this story think they know with certainty regardless of the fact we are on the outside. :)

     25 Agrees

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    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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  • dreadlordnafdreadlordnaf Member UncommonPosts: 79
    Here is a good rule of thumb: if someone is making dumb decisions and comments publicly, like attacking customers of the company you work for, that is most likely just the tip of the iceberg and they are making 10x the dumb decisions and comments privately. She was probably on the verge of being sacked already and this just put it over the top.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,773
    It's just the signs of the time.  Roseanne made some comments on Twitter and the entire profitable show was canceled, putting a lot of people out of work who had nothing to do with her comments. They could have fired just her or suspended her until she got some more therapy but that's not what they wanted to do. It's clear message of what companies do to people who screw up on public media. As much as it's been on the news everyone who uses Twitter to voice their thoughts should be aware of the ramifications by now.
    Aori

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • meonthissitemeonthissite Member UncommonPosts: 917
    I have no sympathy and here's why: ALL of the devs over there have this same contempt for the players of that game. I've experienced it, others I know experienced it, it was worse during the beginning of the game but now that most of the original devs left, it's calmed down naturally.

    The issue really is, they are NOT doing enough to fix the imbalance of classes (original builds not the latest), they've not done enough to actually fix bugs people experience particularly with how much processor power the game uses rather than graphics processor power, they've NOT done enough to fix the original world.
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,564
    velite said:
    If Peter Fries wasnt fired as well, you would be typing an article right now of how Mike O'Brien and Anet are sexists for firing only the woman.
    I personally wouldn't, but I bet others would have, and I THINK you've hit the nail on the head for why Peter got canned too. 
    Again, I honestly don't agree. I feel that his publicly supporting a fellow employee who was slagging off A-net fans warranted firing just as much as Price. Telling Derior that she didn't ask for his opinion was just the same as saying he totally agreed with what she said and how she said it, and was totally on board with belittling a guy just because he wanted to engage in the conversation.



    Warhawke80Caffynated

    "You can go to land of make believe and you can pretend
    But in the end you still have no friends"

  • hydronehydrone Member UncommonPosts: 10
    What mmo is this or am I at the wrong site?
    JeffSpicoliScot
  • RnjypsyRnjypsy Member UncommonPosts: 63
    edited July 2018
    I just want to take a moment to say: I love that this discussion is actually going well, with reasonable thought out responses and stances. And I won't be glad any of you die when you die, nor will I tweet about it.

    :D
    I, too, am surprised at the responses here and heartened that it hasn't resulted in the irrational blanket blame game against feminism and social progressives that  I've been seeing all over the internet,  which is  just as misplaced and fallacious as JP's twitter tirade.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,773
    hydrone said:
    What mmo is this or am I at the wrong site?
    Gaming related news section.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • rastapastorrastapastor Member UncommonPosts: 188
    edited July 2018
    Bullshit :P

    I installed the game again because of it :P, becasue MO made a right decision. If u fuck with customers it will hurt Your business and MO knows that.
  • zachdayzachday Member UncommonPosts: 11
    Lol this opinion is as dumb as Price was to suggest GW is suffering in any way from the stupid spat.
    YashaX
  • druezdruez Member UncommonPosts: 95




    These types of articles and the gaming media's response in general are the very reason terms like SJW and feminist have garnered a negative connotation.  This is why trust in mainstream media is at an all-time low in America.

    You can't fight fire with fire here.  Specifically when that fire is not even controlled, but sprayed about ignorantly, setting the entire village aflame with no regard as to who gets burned.


    I'm actually trying to look at it from all sides. And it seems to me that the only person who really got "hurt" from all this may have been Peter Fries. 



    Bill long time reader here. I generally like your reviews and your site. But, I think you are pretty off-base on this one. Your article read like you were defending her and you don't like MO. It doesn't seem neutral to me. Arena Net did what they need to do, which was to fire her. Any type of research tells you that she was wrong.

    I seriously don't understand what you were trying to accomplish with this article other then get people to talk about it. MO being the only founding member left really has nothing to do with why she was fired and was completely irrelevant to the whole discussion.

    Lot's of game company's founders split off and go their separate ways. It happens. The guy might be an ass or a jerk, but it doesn't change the fact that JP was flat out wrong on so many levels. Even being a jerk, I can get over. But, people are tired of being called a racist, misogynist etc... for simply disagreeing with someone.

    Tell you the truth that was one of the nicest disagreements I've seen someone use in a long time. Then she goes on to blast that dude Ink about him been an amateur writer and she is a professional. (another time she was an ass)

    Good riddance JP. Well done ArenaNet. Poor form MMORPG. I'll still log in daily as I enjoy your site, but just wanted to let you know where I stand on this one.

    MisterZebubBillMurphyYashaX
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,154
    I think the only ones believing an internet mob can get someone fired aren't really paying attention to anything but this particular instance to build that narrative, and ignoring or downplaying the facts of Price's behavior to do so.
    Maybe we've been looking at this all wrong, Mike O'Brien, MOB, fired, omg... she was really fired by a MOB! She wasn't lying!

    :joy:
    MisterZebubMadFrenchieDakeru
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,666
    I think it was a smart move and clear message from Anet: No drama in our house, directly OR indirectly. No ambiguity and although it might be a bit wry for Piers it leaves no doubt about where the company stands. Clarity trumps being nice every single time.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • ScarranScarran Member UncommonPosts: 95
    To be honest I am appalled at how some game journalists have spun some crazy woman lashing out at a fan, to her being a victim in all of this. I am not specifically talking about this article as I think Bill done a good job at trying to remain neutral. Whilst I do not agree with everything said it was one of the better articles on the topic.

    For me Price got what she deserved and I have zero sympathy for someone who even till this day is falsely claiming that it was all about her being a female. She is hiding behind this controversial wall, despite it being false to justify her rude attitude and to make herself appear to be the victim. The only people falling for it appear to be game journalists who for some reason have taken slight that she dare be held accountable for her actions.

    I do think Fries got fired simply due to the spin Jessica has put on things of this being a female issue. If he walked away with a warning then the pitch forks would be even worse than they are now. If she want's to hold a discussion on a public forum like twitter she needs to learn how to act responsibly, if all she wants is people to blow smoke up her ass, then make her account private and only add those that she likes or agrees with their opinions.

    Either way she is not a victim in this she is a perpetrator hiding behind the victim card and lapping up the attention she is getting to push her anti-female propaganda.
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