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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Working at retail isn't the same as being a contributor to a community based product that relies on consumer participation to generate revenue.

    Secondly as per the original story the customer in question was the polar opposite of rude.

    What is there left to understand y'all?
    YashaX
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 3,417
    edited July 2018
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours. 
    Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
    Actually, I have worked as a cashier, and hated every waking moment of it. But even in those occasions when customers were hostile, I did not suddenly have a free pass to insult them. There is no faster way to get fired, and rightly so. 
    LOL.. and that is why I said I would never deal with any of you.. notice your pal above 'let me boycott you" see anything other then a life loser pain the ass client in that in that kind of action... 

    Now you know your face.. again.. Price's only mistake was letting people know where she worked, and letting people know what she really thought of all you... a mistake I would never make, but I am being at least honest as to why.

    and since I am not being paid to do this either.. have a good life.

    or don't.. I don't care either way.


    An actual list of mistakes, starting with those you brought up.

    - Linking her social media account to her work.

    - "Letting people know what she really thought of them."

    - Harboring said feelings of contempt for the community she is supposed to be entertaining in the first place. 

    - Inability to take criticism - a violation of the literal first rule of being an artist.

    - Inability to distinguish friendly customers from unfriendly ones (something even my remarkably antisocial ass can do). 

    - Failure to admit fault when said otherwise friendly customers take offense.

    - Intentionally escalating the situation.

    - Burning every single bridge within a 50 mile radius after the ensuing fallout by shaming her former company and boss through every media outlet available. 


    That's a lot more than one mistake. 
    If she used a pusedonym or simply did not have her work linked to her twitter account as I am sure there are a lot more then one Jessica Price on Twitter, everything else would not have mattered.

    Really, do you think anyone in Retail ro Coustmer Service auctually likes the public? Truth is, I bet you have not even learned from your days as a Cashier to be the consumer you want to have, and insrtead are the pain in the ass that you would have hated dealing with.

    Which speaks volumes about you.. nothing good mind you.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 3,417
    Aori said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Was that necessary? I think most of the people here have been respectful in this discussion. Any MMO would kill for a community that could maintain courtesy and respect towards each other in the manner most of us have here when in disagreement and debate.
    "tell me who you work for so I can boycot them" Yup.. feeling that civility and respect.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,292
    edited July 2018
    Ungood said:
    Aori said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Was that necessary? I think most of the people here have been respectful in this discussion. Any MMO would kill for a community that could maintain courtesy and respect towards each other in the manner most of us have here when in disagreement and debate.
    "tell me who you work for so I can boycot them" Yup.. feeling that civility and respect.
    I think you need to show a sense of humor. He may disagree with you, but I think he was also trying to lighten the mood. It's rare that anyone boycotts a company at all, much less over one person. It's over the top and silly. Laugh a little. 

    And yes, I would call the mood here civil... mostly. This is like a PG13 debate.

    Ungood said:
    If she used a pusedonym or simply did not have her work linked to her twitter account as I am sure there are a lot more then one Jessica Price on Twitter, everything else would not have mattered.

    Really, do you think anyone in Retail ro Coustmer Service auctually likes the public? Truth is, I bet you have not even learned from your days as a Cashier to be the consumer you want to have, and insrtead are the pain in the ass that you would have hated dealing with.

    Which speaks volumes about you.. nothing good mind you.

    Actually, I'm a pretty damn good customer. It takes a lot to make me lose my temper, and I generally keep to myself in all things. I'm innately non-confrontational and always have been, at least in person. I'm conscious of how badly one bad customer interaction can ruin someone's day, and I try my damnedest to avoid being that bad interaction. 

    Also, I didn't hate my customers when I worked retail either. I liked some of them, was fine with almost all of them, and only made a few enemies in my year of retail experience, whom I never once lashed out against. I hated my job and my life, not the people I was working with or for.

    The fact that you would assume my character based on essentially nothing speaks volumes about you.... nothing good, mind you. 
    Post edited by Aeander on
    hanshotfirstYashaX
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,266
    Ungood said:
    Aori said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Was that necessary? I think most of the people here have been respectful in this discussion. Any MMO would kill for a community that could maintain courtesy and respect towards each other in the manner most of us have here when in disagreement and debate.
    "tell me who you work for so I can boycot them" Yup.. feeling that civility and respect.
    lol

    Respect is earned and when you fling shit some will come flying right back at you.

    It's quite obvious that you're not a people person.



    JeffSpicoliYashaX

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited July 2018
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    laserit said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
    See.. that was Prices mistake, to let the shit know where she worked.

    Not a mistake I plan to make given this threat, but this just validates why I think you are shit, and so does everyone else, even if they are being paid to be nice to your face.

    But if it makes you feel any better, you won't ever have to deal with me, as I don't work with or for the general public anymore.

    Wow, did you just imply the entire community here is "shit" with your series of childish rants?  Dude, take your fucking meds already and sit down.
    Are reading these posts? "tell us who you work for so I can bocott them" Are you really trying to tell me with a stright face they are not the petty entiled little shits everyone who has ever worked with the public dreds dealing with.

    No, you clearly went on the offensive against this entire community.  Your entire demeanor in this thread has been one of ignorant condescension, raging against a position most (specifically the ones you seem to be responding to) aren't even taking, and then implying this community is "shit," all because we don't agree that going apeshit on a consumer who is politely giving feedback is okay and that fact doesn't have a damned thing to do with the gender of any party involved.


    Earlier in the thread you tried to lump me in with people who don't believe sexism exists at all.  I see now why you did so: you regard everyone else here as worthless, mattering only insomuch as you can amuse yourself by condescending them.  To that end, you find it useful to generalize about everyone as much as possible to attempt to assert moral or logical superiority.  GTFO with that inane nonsense; we don't need (and, I would daresay, not many of us want) people like that here.

    FWIW, Price's mistake was that she has such an immature disposition that it precludes rationality to the point that its detrimental to the very commendable position she asserts she is supporting (though, with the way she has reacted to Deroir and subsequent statements, it's clear she is more interested in merely using that ideological rally banner to further her own delusions than to pursue its positive goal).  Her position within GW2 and choice to trumpet that fact over Twitter to garner a following (which is precisely why she included said bio info, let's be real) merely ensured that, once the pride came, the subsequent fall was well-watched.  She's in a position of her own making, a fact that she cannot even fathom.

    And, coincidentally, there have been multiple attempts by trolling consumers to bitch at a company for their devs' social media comments since, but guess how many we've seen get the boot from said companies?  That's right: precisely fucking zero.  It's almost as if, *gasp*, management at these companies are a little bit more intelligent than a trained fucking ape and can tell the difference between an unduly pissed off customer trying to harass an employee and a legitimately unhinged employee harassing a customer.
    hanshotfirstYashaXJeleenafrostymuglaseritEponyxDamorAeander

    image
  • hanshotfirsthanshotfirst Member UncommonPosts: 712
    Ungood said:
    Well, you do live up to your handle. People like you do more harm than good for the causes you allegedly champion. How shameful. 
     what cause have I championed?.. beyond your own strawman?
    I'm sorry, did I misinterpret this as advocacy against sexism and harassment?
    Ungood said:

    I stayed away from the whole Gamergate thing, never wanted to even touch that at all, but the fact that Totalbiscut was the leader behind that fiasco, Now I fully understand why Price said what she said about him.  From what I gathered Gamergate was a massive sexist driven smear campaign against women in the industry, and TB lead that fiasco, and people are actually shocked that there are women in the industry hated him?

    Wow, this really shows the true colors of how fucked up the game industry is, and how screw up gamers are.

    People came out to prise TB and parade him as some decent normal streamer, not the total pice of shit that started Gamergate, and I bet those same people are here trying to rip down Price..

    Yah.. well. I just lost a fuckton of respect for her attackers.
    Am I misunderstanding what you meant by referring to Bain as a "total pice of shit"?

    Do you even know what a strawman fallacy is??
    YashaX
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,266
    laserit said:
    Ungood said:
    Aori said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Was that necessary? I think most of the people here have been respectful in this discussion. Any MMO would kill for a community that could maintain courtesy and respect towards each other in the manner most of us have here when in disagreement and debate.
    "tell me who you work for so I can boycot them" Yup.. feeling that civility and respect.
    lol

    Respect is earned and when you fling shit some will come flying right back at you.

    It's quite obvious that you're not a people person.



    laserit, you need to post more ... I used to be able to harass you on a regular basis, but lately you're a moving target!  I hope all is well with you, dude.
    I got back just over a week ago from the most awesome road trip. Rode through ten states and the people and places were amazing. Reminds you of why our two countries have such close ties, we're all just people and when it comes right down to it, we all fight the same war.
    [Deleted User]MadFrenchie

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • hanshotfirsthanshotfirst Member UncommonPosts: 712
    MadFrenchie said:

    ...raging against a position most (specifically the ones you seem to be responding to) aren't even taking...
    The irony that he'd level the accusation I've used a strawman against him. It's just one bad faith argument after another with this guy. It's gotta be a troll or a Poe.
    MadFrenchieYashaX
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 3,417
    Ungood said:
    Well, you do live up to your handle. People like you do more harm than good for the causes you allegedly champion. How shameful. 
     what cause have I championed?.. beyond your own strawman?
    I'm sorry, did I misinterpret this as advocacy against sexism and harassment?
    Yes.. yes you did.. now go in the corner, put on your dunce hat and feel bad.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 3,417
    laserit said:
    Ungood said:
    Aori said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Was that necessary? I think most of the people here have been respectful in this discussion. Any MMO would kill for a community that could maintain courtesy and respect towards each other in the manner most of us have here when in disagreement and debate.
    "tell me who you work for so I can boycot them" Yup.. feeling that civility and respect.
    lol

    Respect is earned and when you fling shit some will come flying right back at you.

    It's quite obvious that you're not a people person.



    You have to worthy of my respect before I will bother to earn yours.. see how that works.

    I'm going to bet you don't.. but that is your unfounded entitlement talking. heads up, your mommy lied, you're not special or important, you are just a normal, average, nothing  noteworthy about you, person like billions of other people in the world today.

    So to say this again, if You want anyone to make an effort to earn your respect, you first need to show you are deserving of that effort.. right now.. I am vastly unimpressed.
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    Stop using those sticks to poke at each other and get back to hitting this dead horse!
    Phry
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 3,417
    MadFrenchie said:

    ...raging against a position most (specifically the ones you seem to be responding to) aren't even taking...
    The irony that he'd level the accusation I've used a strawman against him. It's just one bad faith argument after another with this guy. It's gotta be a troll or a Poe.
    you liked two twitter accounts that did not have the same name.. what do you want from me a lolly pop.. LOL?

    and the twitter post about Gamergate, if TB was not in charge in some manner, why would anyone single him out about not being in the wiki..

    But hey.. don't let something like common sense get in the way being insufferably absolutely right.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,195
    edited July 2018
    Ungood said:
    laserit said:
    Ungood said:
    Aori said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Was that necessary? I think most of the people here have been respectful in this discussion. Any MMO would kill for a community that could maintain courtesy and respect towards each other in the manner most of us have here when in disagreement and debate.
    "tell me who you work for so I can boycot them" Yup.. feeling that civility and respect.
    lol

    Respect is earned and when you fling shit some will come flying right back at you.

    It's quite obvious that you're not a people person.



    You have to worthy of my respect before I will bother to earn yours.. see how that works.

    I'm going to bet you don't.. but that is your unfounded entitlement talking. heads up, your mommy lied, you're not special or important, you are just a normal, average, nothing  noteworthy about you, person like billions of other people in the world today.

    So to say this again, if You want anyone to make an effort to earn your respect, you first need to show you are deserving of that effort.. right now.. I am vastly unimpressed.
    So people have to be worthy of your respect before they get yours? AND you worked in customer services? How did that combination work out? I have only got your horribly negative, generalising and judgemental comments to go by but I would say; not very good.

    You look at all of this through a deformed lens, colored by your own experiences, and thats all it is, your own experience, not some universal truth. And maybe you had a part in making these experiences go sour too, I pray you didn't show any of this behavior to any of your customers for instance....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir

    Post edited by lahnmir on
    YashaX
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    edited July 2018
    Ungood said:
    MadFrenchie said:

    ...raging against a position most (specifically the ones you seem to be responding to) aren't even taking...
    The irony that he'd level the accusation I've used a strawman against him. It's just one bad faith argument after another with this guy. It's gotta be a troll or a Poe.
    you liked two twitter accounts that did not have the same name.. what do you want from me a lolly pop.. LOL?

    and the twitter post about Gamergate, if TB was not in charge in some manner, why would anyone single him out about not being in the wiki..

    But hey.. don't let something like common sense get in the way being insufferably absolutely right.
    I think some people have a gross misunderstanding of what a hashtag is and how it works. There is another more recent hashtag movement that its original message got diluted so much to the point of ridicule, the #metoo one.

    So you are an advocate of ethics in games journalism. A group of people create a hashtag that advocates that, so you obviously support it. Then two different groups hijack the original hashtag and pull it towards four different directions? Under what logic you are:
    1. Leading the first group
    2. Supporting the other two groups
    3. Have any control on who posts under a certain hashtag?
    People want to deconstruct TB for a very simple reason. Apart from he obviously can't defend himself, his life was a proof that you can adhere to game journalism ethics and still be successful. Some professional game journalists are terrified that his example has spawned a number of imitators that already surpass the mainstream media popularity while also adhere to their ethics.
  • meataxemeataxe Member UncommonPosts: 11
    I just watched this on the Alex Beckers Channel, who puts this fiasco into a business/company prospective.  Very insightful.  Good Watch.


    Phry
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,803
    I'm not even sure why sexism is even being discussed. This entire situation with Price had ZERO relevance to a case of sexism in the gaming industry. The fact she said what she did about a youtuber who died from cancer just proves she's not worth defending. She is trash and needs to be left out on the curb for pickup.
    laxiePhryYashaX

  • hanshotfirsthanshotfirst Member UncommonPosts: 712
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Well, you do live up to your handle. People like you do more harm than good for the causes you allegedly champion. How shameful. 
     what cause have I championed?.. beyond your own strawman?
    I'm sorry, did I misinterpret this as advocacy against sexism and harassment?
    Yes.. yes you did.. now go in the corner, put on your dunce hat and feel bad.
    You've made a point on several occasions in this thread to remind us that...

    Ungood said:

    ...the Sexism in the Video Game profession is very real, and still very much ongoing.

    Furthermore, you've characterized those who would deny it as stupid...

    Ungood said:

    ...just imagine being a women in this industry, dealing with that kind of stupid day in and day out.

    But apparently I need to wear a dunce cap and feel bad for interpreting what you've said to mean you are AGAINST sexism?
  • hanshotfirsthanshotfirst Member UncommonPosts: 712
    Ungood said:
    MadFrenchie said:

    ...raging against a position most (specifically the ones you seem to be responding to) aren't even taking...
    The irony that he'd level the accusation I've used a strawman against him. It's just one bad faith argument after another with this guy. It's gotta be a troll or a Poe.
    you liked two twitter accounts that did not have the same name.. what do you want from me a lolly pop.. LOL?

    and the twitter post about Gamergate, if TB was not in charge in some manner, why would anyone single him out about not being in the wiki..

    But hey.. don't let something like common sense get in the way being insufferably absolutely right.
    You quoted me, appear to be responding to me, but absolutely nothing you are saying makes a lick of sense.

    The only Twitter post I've shared here ("liked?") was from Genna Bain, TotalBiscuit's widow. Perhaps you need to read it again?



    Bain NEVER supported sexism, bigotry or harassment of ANY KIND. Rather, he publicly disavowed and condemned it. 




    This is who you're referring to as a "total pice of shit"?

    Why are you so quick to smear a dead man's name? Are you just too lazy to investigate for yourself? 
    PhryYashaXEponyxDamorIselinRhoklaw
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,698
    meataxe said:
    I just watched this on the Alex Beckers Channel, who puts this fiasco into a business/company prospective.  Very insightful.  Good Watch.


    Uh, ranting, hollering affect, filled with sputtering fury.  Not likely to get me to ever watch another video of his.   And I even kinda agree with him.   I guess maybe if you like Sturm und Drang....

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Ungood said:
    MadFrenchie said:

    ...raging against a position most (specifically the ones you seem to be responding to) aren't even taking...
    The irony that he'd level the accusation I've used a strawman against him. It's just one bad faith argument after another with this guy. It's gotta be a troll or a Poe.
    you liked two twitter accounts that did not have the same name.. what do you want from me a lolly pop.. LOL?

    and the twitter post about Gamergate, if TB was not in charge in some manner, why would anyone single him out about not being in the wiki..

    But hey.. don't let something like common sense get in the way being insufferably absolutely right.
    You quoted me, appear to be responding to me, but absolutely nothing you are saying makes a lick of sense.

    The only Twitter post I've shared here ("liked?") was from Genna Bain, TotalBiscuit's widow. Perhaps you need to read it again?



    Bain NEVER supported sexism, bigotry or harassment of ANY KIND. Rather, he publicly disavowed and condemned it. 




    This is who you're referring to as a "total pice of shit"?

    Why are you so quick to smear a dead man's name? Are you just too lazy to investigate for yourself? 
    After the latest hit piece from Forbes on Totalbiscuit, i basically have zero respect for such media outlets, that they willfully support the slandering of someone who is dead, and then complain because of the backlash they get because of it, typical SJW's they just can't handle it when the things they say come back to bite them in the arse.
    Rhoklaw
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    Phry said:
    Ungood said:
    MadFrenchie said:

    ...raging against a position most (specifically the ones you seem to be responding to) aren't even taking...
    The irony that he'd level the accusation I've used a strawman against him. It's just one bad faith argument after another with this guy. It's gotta be a troll or a Poe.
    you liked two twitter accounts that did not have the same name.. what do you want from me a lolly pop.. LOL?

    and the twitter post about Gamergate, if TB was not in charge in some manner, why would anyone single him out about not being in the wiki..

    But hey.. don't let something like common sense get in the way being insufferably absolutely right.
    You quoted me, appear to be responding to me, but absolutely nothing you are saying makes a lick of sense.

    The only Twitter post I've shared here ("liked?") was from Genna Bain, TotalBiscuit's widow. Perhaps you need to read it again?



    Bain NEVER supported sexism, bigotry or harassment of ANY KIND. Rather, he publicly disavowed and condemned it. 




    This is who you're referring to as a "total pice of shit"?

    Why are you so quick to smear a dead man's name? Are you just too lazy to investigate for yourself? 
    After the latest hit piece from Forbes on Totalbiscuit, i basically have zero respect for such media outlets, that they willfully support the slandering of someone who is dead, and then complain because of the backlash they get because of it, typical SJW's they just can't handle it when the things they say come back to bite them in the arse.
    Media and Journalism has become total garbage. They no longer report the news they create it. Being a journalist is suppose to be about presenting a un-biased report of only the facts to educate your reader on the story and then let them form a opinion, Not a one sided opinion piece that aims to sway the reader to join their political crusade. 

       Although things have hit new lows when it comes to Journalism and reporting in general ( This is way bigger than gaming) the good thing is people are starting to wake up and call them out on it. 
    ScotPhryRhoklaw
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    Ungood said:
    MadFrenchie said:

    ...raging against a position most (specifically the ones you seem to be responding to) aren't even taking...
    The irony that he'd level the accusation I've used a strawman against him. It's just one bad faith argument after another with this guy. It's gotta be a troll or a Poe.
    you liked two twitter accounts that did not have the same name.. what do you want from me a lolly pop.. LOL?

    and the twitter post about Gamergate, if TB was not in charge in some manner, why would anyone single him out about not being in the wiki..

    But hey.. don't let something like common sense get in the way being insufferably absolutely right.
    Do you wear a black trench coat all year 'round?
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,666
    This is starting to turn into the sort of thread that gets closed down and we were doing so well guys. Lets all take some deep breathes and count to ten. :)

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    Well, the opinion piece of that Forbes "contributor" didn't have to take center stage here, beyond the loose relationship between how people perceive gaming journalism.

    As for the actual Anet news, the coverage was generally speaking sexist (promote a sexist angle that didn't exist for the female developer, completely ignore the male).

    For gamers it was news worthy, because it was the rare moment where these days a games company chose to side with the side of the customer, in a cut a dry case where the customer was right.
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