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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,167
    70ish new posts since I've last visited, it was a lie, none of it was actually *new*. I feel baited.
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    These types of articles and the gaming media's response in general are the very reason terms like SJW and feminist have garnered a negative connotation.  This is why trust in mainstream media is at an all-time low in America.

    You can't fight fire with fire here.  Specifically when that fire is not even controlled, but sprayed about ignorantly, setting the entire village aflame with no regard as to who gets burned.
    I'm actually trying to look at it from all sides. And it seems to me that the only person who really got "hurt" from all this may have been Peter Fries. 
    Peter is an adult. He should have learned how to pick his battles wisely by now. No sympathy.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • Lambon23Lambon23 Member UncommonPosts: 66
    The sexism shit is getting played out. Bunch of lunatics.
    SBFordforcelima
  • ysquare21ysquare21 Member UncommonPosts: 25
    laxie said:
    On freedom of speech.

    I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.

    We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.

    This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.

    So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
    I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.

    It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.

    I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.

    Then you never had a job at a well known company. Nothing wrong with that, of course. However, every company that has a name will have you sign and read multiple documents about what is appropriate behavior outside of work. Ys, that includes bringing ANY kind of negative publicity to the company.
    postlarvalUngoodGaendricOctagon7711YashaX
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,773
    Is the thread with the most posts ever? Sorry, I have nothing to add to this thread. I skimmed the issue but the one bottom line is that you never go wrong being professional no matter how awesome it would be not to.
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,204
    edited July 2018
    ysquare21 said:
    laxie said:
    On freedom of speech.

    I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.

    We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.

    This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.

    So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
    I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.

    It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.

    I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.

    Then you never had a job at a well known company. Nothing wrong with that, of course. However, every company that has a name will have you sign and read multiple documents about what is appropriate behavior outside of work. Ys, that includes bringing ANY kind of negative publicity to the company.
    If you come to public notice in a professional capacity then expect your employer to pay attention. I wouldn't f*** a goat either, might not give members of your profession the wrong/right impression. :)
    Post edited by Scot on
    YashaX

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 2,948
    Scot said:
    ysquare21 said:
    laxie said:
    On freedom of speech.

    I do find the laws / culture overprotective at times. There is no good reason why you should feel afraid to say anything to your friend in private. Yet, there have been several occasions recently where people get in trouble for their private, personal opinion shared (and unfortunately leaked) in a private setting.

    We had a scandal at our university recently, where a private messenger conversation was leaked, including some quite distasteful racist jokes. Several of the people in the conversation were suspended or penalised. In this case, I found it quite awkward - why are we punishing these people, who clearly had no tangible intention of harming someone besides making unfortunate jokes in private. At the same time, people go to comedy shows full of racist jokes, pay for the tickets, laugh and clap at what's said throughout.

    This does not apply to the ANet story though, in my opinion. When you have a professional relationship with a person, the nature of the relationship persists. If I dislike something about a student of mine, I can't go to them and call them a piece of crap - I am still their teacher, no matter the platform, and the expectations (for the most part) don't disappear. I am a young teacher, only starting recently, and the most difficult aspect of my job is figuring this 'barrier' out. How friendly is too friendly. How strict is too strict. How honest is too honest. Even though I'm friendly with my students in out off time, there is a lot of expectations on me and the professional nature of the relationship though.

    So I think in this case, the fact that the employee is being harsh towards a customer is the main issue. If you were being harsh towards a stranger, it could still paint a poor image for the company, but the situation is much worse when the person has a professional relationship with you.
    I'm not sure I agree that your situation is a valid comparison though. You're the teacher, you're the professional, whereas a student is not. So the teacher - student relationship is quite different to the employer - employee one.

    It's beholden on you to maintain that professional attitude because that's your job. The student isn't under the same constraints or obligations.

    I make no bones about this but if my employer had the bare faced audacity to tell me how to behave outside of work, I'd tell him to go fuck a goat.

    Then you never had a job at a well known company. Nothing wrong with that, of course. However, every company that has a name will have you sign and read multiple documents about what is appropriate behavior outside of work. Ys, that includes bringing ANY kind of negative publicity to the company.
    If you come to public notice in a professional capacity then expect your employer to pay attention. I wouldn't f*** a goat either, might not give members of your profession the right impression. :)
    I really don't know why you can't feed a goat....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    ScotEponyxDamorYashaX
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337
    lahnmir said:
    Scot said:
    ...
    If you come to public notice in a professional capacity then expect your employer to pay attention. I wouldn't f*** a goat either, might not give members of your profession the right impression. :)
    I really don't know why you can't feed a goat....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Profile pic checks out?
    Scotlahnmir
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    SBFordEponyxDamor
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,963
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours. 
    maskedweasellaseritIselinDakeruEponyxDamorGhavriggMadFrenchieYashaX
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,166
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
    maskedweaselAeanderDakeruMadFrenchieYashaX

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    edited July 2018
    laserit said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
    See.. that was Prices mistake, to let the shit know where she worked.

    Not a mistake I plan to make given this threat, but this just validates why I think you are shit, and so does everyone else, even if they are being paid to be nice to your face.

    But if it makes you feel any better, you won't ever have to deal with me, as I don't work with or for the general public anymore.

    AeanderYashaX
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours. 
    Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
    IselinEponyxDamorMadFrenchieYashaX
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,963
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours. 
    Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
    Actually, I have worked as a cashier, and hated every waking moment of it. But even in those occasions when customers were hostile, I did not suddenly have a free pass to insult them. There is no faster way to get fired, and rightly so. 
    YashaX
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    edited July 2018
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours. 
    Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
    Actually, I have worked as a cashier, and hated every waking moment of it. But even in those occasions when customers were hostile, I did not suddenly have a free pass to insult them. There is no faster way to get fired, and rightly so. 
    LOL.. and that is why I said I would never deal with any of you.. notice your pal above 'let me boycott you" see anything other then a life loser pain the ass client in that in that kind of action... 

    Now you know your face.. again.. Price's only mistake was letting people know where she worked, and letting people know what she really thought of all you... a mistake I would never make, but I am being at least honest as to why.

    and since I am not being paid to do this either.. have a good life.

    or don't.. I don't care either way.


    AeanderGhavriggMadFrenchieYashaX
  • hanshotfirsthanshotfirst Member UncommonPosts: 712
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    So, no recanting or retraction of your previous misleading/defamatory comments re: John Bain?

    Just gross generalization and unwarranted contempt? 

    Well, you do live up to your handle. People like you do more harm than good for the causes you allegedly champion. How shameful. 
    EponyxDamorGhavriggYashaX
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,963
    edited July 2018
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours. 
    Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
    Actually, I have worked as a cashier, and hated every waking moment of it. But even in those occasions when customers were hostile, I did not suddenly have a free pass to insult them. There is no faster way to get fired, and rightly so. 
    LOL.. and that is why I said I would never deal with any of you.. notice your pal above 'let me boycott you" see anything other then a life loser pain the ass client in that in that kind of action... 

    Now you know your face.. again.. Price's only mistake was letting people know where she worked, and letting people know what she really thought of all you... a mistake I would never make, but I am being at least honest as to why.

    and since I am not being paid to do this either.. have a good life.

    or don't.. I don't care either way.


    An actual list of mistakes, starting with those you brought up.

    - Linking her social media account to her work.

    - "Letting people know what she really thought of them."

    - Harboring said feelings of contempt for the community she is supposed to be entertaining in the first place. 

    - Inability to take criticism - a violation of the literal first rule of being an artist.

    - Inability to distinguish friendly customers from unfriendly ones (something even my remarkably antisocial ass can do). 

    - Failure to admit fault when said otherwise friendly customers take offense.

    - Intentionally escalating the situation.

    - Burning every single bridge within a 50 mile radius after the ensuing fallout by shaming her former company and boss through every media outlet available. 


    That's a lot more than one mistake. 
    GhavriggYashaX
  • GuizeeGuizee Member UncommonPosts: 32
    I completely disagrees with Ms. Price's position on that subject - the way she replied to Deroir was exaggerated but firing Peter Fries? Another exaggeration. I mostly agree with you Bill Murphy and I just want to stress how Mike O'Brien has been bad for Guild Wars 2. You are very right to say that the community sees him as a hero, when in truth, he's not. When I bought the game back at 2012 I was so in love with it and believed firmly in its bright future with all its marvelous ideas but the devs responsible for them were quitting the company and I was wondering why they were doing that. It took me many years to realize where the problem truly is and all I can say is that the game has lost its originality and its brilliant future - what's left to do now is to try to make playable content with the game's carcass. But most of its authenticity and primary goal is lost, sadly.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,963
    edited July 2018
    Guizee said:
    I completely disagrees with Ms. Price's position on that subject - the way she replied to Deroir was exaggerated but firing Peter Fries? Another exaggeration. I mostly agree with you Bill Murphy and I just want to stress how Mike O'Brien has been bad for Guild Wars 2. You are very right to say that the community sees him as a hero, when in truth, he's not. When I bought the game back at 2012 I was so in love with it and believed firmly in its bright future with all its marvelous ideas but the devs responsible for them were quitting the company and I was wondering why they were doing that. It took me many years to realize where the problem truly is and all I can say is that the game has lost its originality and its brilliant future - what's left to do now is to try to make playable content with the game's carcass. But most of its authenticity and primary goal is lost, sadly.
    The primary goal of the launch game can trace its failure to one of the earliest major patches - the infamous Southsun Cove patch. That patch not only introduced ascended gear - a mistake or an improvement depending on who you ask, but a betrayal of the anti-gear grind philosophy either way. 

    More importantly, Southsun Cove set the tone for the entirety of Season 1 - inconsistent, bug-ridden content rushed out every 2 weeks. Guild Wars 2 was a disaster under Colin Johanson. I would never want to go back to shoddy biweekly updates or aimless patches with no clear overarching direction. We think of MO as a hero because it was under his lead that the game finally found a coherent design philosophy and a stable tempo of high quality content. It may not be the game promised in the Manifesto, but it is a better game than it ever was or ever could have been under Colin. 
    YashaX
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    Aeander said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Frankly, that says more about your character than any of ours. 
    Nope, it says a lot about you.. as you obviously have not worked retail.
    Actually, I have worked as a cashier, and hated every waking moment of it. But even in those occasions when customers were hostile, I did not suddenly have a free pass to insult them. There is no faster way to get fired, and rightly so. 
    LOL.. and that is why I said I would never deal with any of you.. notice your pal above 'let me boycott you" see anything other then a life loser pain the ass client in that in that kind of action... 


    I think he was only replying in the way he did because your tone is so aggressive.

    People should really understand and expect that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

    If you are aggressive to others, others probably won't be nice to you back - and there will probably be more others who will chime in and support the wronged party.

    One need not to always express their opinion or statement on any given subject in a confrontational matter. It is just not necessary and it creates unnecessary stress for yourself trying to have to argue harder to try to make your point heard.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited July 2018
    Ungood said:
    laserit said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
    See.. that was Prices mistake, to let the shit know where she worked.

    Not a mistake I plan to make given this threat, but this just validates why I think you are shit, and so does everyone else, even if they are being paid to be nice to your face.

    But if it makes you feel any better, you won't ever have to deal with me, as I don't work with or for the general public anymore.

    Wow, did you just imply the entire community here is "shit" with your series of childish rants?  Dude, take your fucking meds already and sit down.
    IselinYashaX

    image
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,963
    Ungood said:
    laserit said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
    See.. that was Prices mistake, to let the shit know where she worked.

    Not a mistake I plan to make given this threat, but this just validates why I think you are shit, and so does everyone else, even if they are being paid to be nice to your face.

    But if it makes you feel any better, you won't ever have to deal with me, as I don't work with or for the general public anymore.

    Wow, did you just imply the entire community here is "shit" with your series of childish rants?  Dude, take your fucking meds already and sit down.
    It is quite ironic that he can sit on a high horse while simultaneously calling two communities shit, isn't it. He's a real work of art.
    MadFrenchieYashaX
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,167
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    Was that necessary? I think most of the people here have been respectful in this discussion. Any MMO would kill for a community that could maintain courtesy and respect towards each other in the manner most of us have here when in disagreement and debate.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    Ungood said:
    laserit said:
    Ungood said:
    This topic amuses me greatly.. and if I ever was (which I am not) planning to make an MMO, just reinforces why I would never slum it in the trenches with the masses.

    I can barely deal with most of you as a group that I could not care less about, if my job depended on being nice to you all, that would be the embodiment of a living hell.
    You should let us know which products and/or companies you're involved with so we can boycott them.
    See.. that was Prices mistake, to let the shit know where she worked.

    Not a mistake I plan to make given this threat, but this just validates why I think you are shit, and so does everyone else, even if they are being paid to be nice to your face.

    But if it makes you feel any better, you won't ever have to deal with me, as I don't work with or for the general public anymore.

    Wow, did you just imply the entire community here is "shit" with your series of childish rants?  Dude, take your fucking meds already and sit down.
    Are reading these posts? "tell us who you work for so I can bocott them" Are you really trying to tell me with a stright face they are not the petty entiled little shits everyone who has ever worked with the public dreds dealing with.

    YashaX
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    edited July 2018
    Well, you do live up to your handle. People like you do more harm than good for the causes you allegedly champion. How shameful. 
     what cause have I championed?.. beyond your own strawman?
    YashaX
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