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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • marksteelemarksteele Member UncommonPosts: 59
    edited July 2018
    "They knew--or at least had a responsibility to know, in 2018--what would happen to a female game dev who was fired in response to an exchange about sexism. It would have been bad enough if they had just fired me and announced I was fired."

    I love this, when was this EVER about sexism? If someone voices an opinion it's the merits of the opinion that should matter not the gender of the person who voiced it. The fact that JP would use feminism as a shield to try and avoid being disciplined speaks volumes as to why she was fired in the first place. 

     As for the issue of giving feedback in the first place. Gamers are, in general, invested in their games, sometimes spending thousands of hours and, in some cases, thousands of dollars in a single game. It makes perfect sense that when a developer opens a public discourse those people who have invested a significant part of their life, or in this case made a career out of the game, will join in and voice an opinion. 
    YashaX
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,560
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    I apologize for that,  it was more tongue in cheek *being a smartass* & will keep my politics to myself. But you need to be careful yourself because you are very much threading a linewith your agenda. An agenda that I'm sure I agree with over 80% of, but it's that other 20%. But once again I do apologize if it seemed like an attack
    My only real agenda is that people need to beware of Mike OBrien. 
    "HE'S RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!!!!!!"

    Sorry Bill, I really am, but I have to honestly say I feel you have your head planted very deeply up your ass on this one. We have no proof that Mike O'Brien is an any way an unpleasant person, and no hearsay is not proof. "Well some bloke in a pub told me..." will not stand up in court. You continuing to publicly bash the man when you yourself admittedly have had zero negative interactions with him not only makes you look bad, it makes this site look bad. His behavior one way or another has zero bearing on this story. Jessica Price has very publicly made, and continues to make, a complete ass out of herself. Her bad behavior tarnished A-nets reputation and her firing for doing so was completely justified. Mike O'Brien publicly announcing that a employee that outraged the public is no longer working for their company is standard operating procedure. You see this all the time. You trying to twist it into some kind of conspiracy, with again, zero justifiable proof, just makes you look petty. And I honestly expected better of you.



    I'm really sorry you feel that way. If I could provide more, trust me I would. And I'm looking for ways to do so. 
    MisterZebubAeander

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,560
    My final word on the thread (until I decide to rear my head again) is this - JP is merely part of a larger puzzle at a much deeper problem at ArenaNet and within the industry as a whole. All other political and social issues aside - this whole thing is bad for any and all game developers, for reasons I've outlined here, elsewhere, and so forth.

    I know many of you think I'm up my own arse, and I truly wish I could line up the people I've spoken to and have them all tell their stories directly to you.

    But let me put it this way: when we had an anonymous source tell us about CoH and the debacle of its closure and NCSoft's involvement, you trusted us then. Because you WANTED COH back. NCSOFT was the bad guy.

    In this case, JP is the "bad guy", and MO is the good guy, and this article and my whole point around it goes against the latter half of that statement. As such, it's a harder pill to swallow. Maybe one day I'll be proven right, but I don't think there's a great chance of it. So for now, I'm just asking you, if you've ever trusted my articles or knowledge of the business behind the games, to consider I'm not full of shit here. 

    Love you guys. I'm going back to playing Path of Fire, because I really do still love the game, and there's a whole lot of passionate people making Tyria who I hope are doing just fine. 
    Torval

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,849
    The gaming media picked up on this story to create more drama and generate some buzz, but the reality is that there isn't a story worth debating here.

    - She represents her company by speaking publicly about her job and referencing her company.
    - She wrote a huge thread about writing in games.
    - She received very polite feedback for a well-known player.
    - She fired back at the player rudely.
    - The player was extremely non-confrontational, even in his last response after her clap-back and decided to end the conversation before it escalates.
    - She then tried labeling the player as sexist for not apparent valid reason since gender was never a factor.

    In any company, gaming or otherwise, this behavior is simply not tolerated and the firing was definitely justified. Why in hell would this kind of behavior be acceptable? If she'd left it at her initial clap-back, perhaps I would have reprimanded her if I was an employer, but the moment she unjustly tried labeling the other player as sexist is certainly where I, and most people, draw the line.

    Now if you want to argue about Fries' firing, that's a different story and it may have been too far. But Price? Totally justified.
    Leiloni
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    edited July 2018
    So, watching my usual youtube videos for the day, came across this little segment in the PDS. It was talking about the recent situation with Elon Musk and a bunch of undeserved criticism/attacks launched at him over him trying to come up with a potential solution to rescue those Taiwanese boys/coach in the cave.

    But this last segment honestly sums up my feelings perfectly regarding this JP situation.
    https://youtu.be/dqewxDCeIdU?t=696

    Shit, it didn't link the start time i wanted. Skip to 11 minutes, 36 seconds.

    Got it working though i couldnt get it to work with embeded in the page. So sorry you gotta click off site.


    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • celtwulfceltwulf Member UncommonPosts: 61
    edited July 2018
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    I apologize for that,  it was more tongue in cheek *being a smartass* & will keep my politics to myself. But you need to be careful yourself because you are very much threading a linewith your agenda. An agenda that I'm sure I agree with over 80% of, but it's that other 20%. But once again I do apologize if it seemed like an attack
    My only real agenda is that people need to beware of Mike OBrien. 
    "HE'S RIGHT BEHIND YOU!!!!!!!"

    Sorry Bill, I really am, but I have to honestly say I feel you have your head planted very deeply up your ass on this one. We have no proof that Mike O'Brien is an any way an unpleasant person, and no hearsay is not proof. "Well some bloke in a pub told me..." will not stand up in court. You continuing to publicly bash the man when you yourself admittedly have had zero negative interactions with him not only makes you look bad, it makes this site look bad. His behavior one way or another has zero bearing on this story. Jessica Price has very publicly made, and continues to make, a complete ass out of herself. Her bad behavior tarnished A-nets reputation and her firing for doing so was completely justified. Mike O'Brien publicly announcing that a employee that outraged the public is no longer working for their company is standard operating procedure. You see this all the time. You trying to twist it into some kind of conspiracy, with again, zero justifiable proof, just makes you look petty. And I honestly expected better of you.



    I'm really sorry you feel that way. If I could provide more, trust me I would. And I'm looking for ways to do so. 
    Bill I feel you are missing what 90% of the people on this forum has been trying to say. You say your opinion is unbiased & you have only one agenda to expose MO, but it very much seems like you are defending Price. Some have very respectfully tried to tell you this, some have used massive amount of sarcasm when you seemed to not understand what everyone was saying. Myself included. I respect your opinion & you have a right to it just like everyone here & yes it would be great if we could talk about stuff like adults but in this case neither side has. Myself included. It is a heated topic & has become a quagmire. This topic needs to drop because you have kind of alienated a lot of your followers who are GW2 fans. No not everyone here probably put on their best side, that includes me, but that also includes you
    MisterZebubCelciusMadFrenchieLeiloni
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,840
    You may not be full of shit for the facts outside of the initial story, but you are absolutely full of shit for your timing of bringing it up.

    It's like bringing up a judges bias and trying to get a case thrown out on a person caught on tape committing the crime. Yes, judge will get removed and past cases reviewed but this defendant right here;



    Nice try though.
    MisterZebubTacticalZombeh
    Raging Demons for all flowchart "Kens". This is a metaphor.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    My final word on the thread (until I decide to rear my head again) is this - JP is merely part of a larger puzzle at a much deeper problem at ArenaNet and within the industry as a whole. All other political and social issues aside - this whole thing is bad for any and all game developers, for reasons I've outlined here, elsewhere, and so forth.

    I know many of you think I'm up my own arse, and I truly wish I could line up the people I've spoken to and have them all tell their stories directly to you.

    But let me put it this way: when we had an anonymous source tell us about CoH and the debacle of its closure and NCSoft's involvement, you trusted us then. Because you WANTED COH back. NCSOFT was the bad guy.

    In this case, JP is the "bad guy", and MO is the good guy, and this article and my whole point around it goes against the latter half of that statement. As such, it's a harder pill to swallow. Maybe one day I'll be proven right, but I don't think there's a great chance of it. So for now, I'm just asking you, if you've ever trusted my articles or knowledge of the business behind the games, to consider I'm not full of shit here. 

    Love you guys. I'm going back to playing Path of Fire, because I really do still love the game, and there's a whole lot of passionate people making Tyria who I hope are doing just fine. 
    I think it could've been made much more clearly.  The timing of the article alone prejudices it for readers.  To avoid linking the two intimately, I feel like your first paragraph should've made it clear the Price situation was not the causation for the article.  But you actually implied very clearly it was.

    You should've known you weren't going to get anywhere trying to link the two, because in spite of the information you have, and in spite of anything else MO did, he was justified in taking action here.  It didn't help that many other outlets had already made it clear they were willing to spin this very situation to try and demonize MO unfairly regarding his actions surrounding it.  Your article, in that context, then came off as attempting to join the media mob, ironically.
    EponyxDamorSephirosoMisterZebubceltwulfYashaX

    image
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,567
    My final word on the thread (until I decide to rear my head again) is this - JP is merely part of a larger puzzle at a much deeper problem at ArenaNet and within the industry as a whole. All other political and social issues aside - this whole thing is bad for any and all game developers, for reasons I've outlined here, elsewhere, and so forth.

    I know many of you think I'm up my own arse, and I truly wish I could line up the people I've spoken to and have them all tell their stories directly to you.

    But let me put it this way: when we had an anonymous source tell us about CoH and the debacle of its closure and NCSoft's involvement, you trusted us then. Because you WANTED COH back. NCSOFT was the bad guy.

    In this case, JP is the "bad guy", and MO is the good guy, and this article and my whole point around it goes against the latter half of that statement. As such, it's a harder pill to swallow. Maybe one day I'll be proven right, but I don't think there's a great chance of it. So for now, I'm just asking you, if you've ever trusted my articles or knowledge of the business behind the games, to consider I'm not full of shit here. 

    Love you guys. I'm going back to playing Path of Fire, because I really do still love the game, and there's a whole lot of passionate people making Tyria who I hope are doing just fine. 
    And I understand. However its not that I don't believe that you believe these other people. Its simply that unless they are willing to publicly speak up about this issue themselves, I simply cannot take their second hand word on faith. And if there is some sort of cancer in the industry its those very people holding their silence that are equally to blame as they are only helping to enable bad behavior. Much like the spineless dicks in Hollywood who buried their heads in the sand and let Harvey Weinstein get away with all of his repugnant abusive bullshit for decades.


    Anyway if there is a deeper story here I'd sure love to hear it, but until then Jessica Price's continuing shit flinging little baby fit is very public and out in the open so that's what we are all going to be focused on.
    celtwulfBillMurphy

    "He was a slob, did you ever see him eat? Starving children could fill their bellies on the food that ended up on his beard and clothes. Dogs would gather to watch him eat. I never understood gluttony, but I hate it. I hated that about you. He enjoyed disgusting people, being disgusting, the thrill of offending people and making them uncomfortable.
    . . . . You will not be missed."

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    My final word on the thread (until I decide to rear my head again) is this - JP is merely part of a larger puzzle at a much deeper problem at ArenaNet and within the industry as a whole. All other political and social issues aside - this whole thing is bad for any and all game developers, for reasons I've outlined here, elsewhere, and so forth.

    I know many of you think I'm up my own arse, and I truly wish I could line up the people I've spoken to and have them all tell their stories directly to you.

    But let me put it this way: when we had an anonymous source tell us about CoH and the debacle of its closure and NCSoft's involvement, you trusted us then. Because you WANTED COH back. NCSOFT was the bad guy.

    In this case, JP is the "bad guy", and MO is the good guy, and this article and my whole point around it goes against the latter half of that statement. As such, it's a harder pill to swallow. Maybe one day I'll be proven right, but I don't think there's a great chance of it. So for now, I'm just asking you, if you've ever trusted my articles or knowledge of the business behind the games, to consider I'm not full of shit here. 

    Love you guys. I'm going back to playing Path of Fire, because I really do still love the game, and there's a whole lot of passionate people making Tyria who I hope are doing just fine. 
    I think it could've been made much more clearly.  The timing of the article alone prejudices it for readers.  To avoid linking the two intimately, I feel like your first paragraph should've made it clear the Price situation was not the causation for the article.  But you actually implied very clearly it was.

    You should've known you weren't going to get anywhere trying to link the two, because in spite of the information you have, and in spite of anything else MO did, he was justified in taking action here.  It didn't help that many other outlets had already made it clear they were willing to spin this very situation to try and demonize MO unfairly regarding his actions surrounding it.  Your article, in that context, then came off as attempting to join the media mob, ironically.
    Agreed -- the article just doesn't articulate that MO is somehow a bad guy. The first real "opinion" even offered up suggests is about JP's firing:

    "This is an opinion piece, so I’m sure not everyone will agree. But I don’t think Jessica Price, part of the narrative team on Guild Wars 2, should have been fired. And I certainly don’t think Peter Fries should have been fired."

    It follows a bit of the story about JP (very biased, btw) and then finishes with:

    "The rest of ArenaNet is left feeling like the spotlight is shining on them, arguably now worried about what they might say to get themselves sacked. Guild Wars 2’s lost its momentum as a game, and is now a side-topic in a greater discussion of worker rights and social media mores. And Mike O’Brien, who thought he was standing up for the customer and his players, has instead given his employees targets on their backs – a notice that says, “Go head, kick me and abuse me. I can’t do anything if I want to keep my job.”"

    In the whole article, only this excerpt talks specifically about Mike O'Brien:

    "I’ve spoken with several former employees of ArenaNet and they’ve all told me the same thing: MO is not the hero Guild Wars fans make him out to be. Quite often, it’s the opposite: he’s a founder and the company president, but there’s a reason he’s the only founder left at the company. There’s a reason many of the people who were responsible for the sky-high dreams of Guild Wars 2 left for other studios. There’s a reason that MO’s the only founder left."

    And with no evidence, quotes, interviews, or specifics about why MO is somehow a bad guy or why he's the only founder left. Perhaps in this situation why he should've done so behind closed doors, but otherwise it offers nothing else.

    Sorry, but I don't see MO being the only founder left as being evidence as to why he is somehow a bad guy.

    celtwulfMisterZebubMadFrenchieVesavius
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,467
    edited July 2018
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    I apologize for that,  it was more tongue in cheek *being a smartass* & will keep my politics to myself. But you need to be careful yourself because you are very much threading a linewith your agenda. An agenda that I'm sure I agree with over 80% of, but it's that other 20%. But once again I do apologize if it seemed like an attack
    My only real agenda is that people need to beware of Mike OBrien. 
    Well, don't be surprised when your childish and absurd agenda results in Arenanet no longer sending previews or exclusive features to MMORPG. Most companies don't appreciate baseless defamation towards their CEO. Just saying.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but ultimately, to me, this seems to be a case of blatant clickbait at the cost of journalistic integrity. It will remain as such until you can somehow back up your case.
    celtwulfWarhawke80DakeruYashaXTacticalZombeh
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,753
    edited July 2018
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    MMORPG im really disappointed in you guys. As i said on PAGE 1 there was no need to not only write another hit piece on Anets decision to fire this loon, But why have another 14 pages of circle jerking. Clearly you are not winning any fans or gaining any support for JP here. 

      I also find it ironic that you warn & ban people  for speaking politics when you clearly start threads and publish articles that are based on just that ! Just off the top of my head here is a few of your more recent, 

    Russian gamers being banned from the internet- 
    Cops shooting unarmed POC after swatting-
    Horny bear stormborn community mod accused of sexual harrasment and blackmail FFARR
    Valve policy change all games allowed on steam
    And now this feminazi nonsense with ArenaNet

    All of those articles deal with politics in one way or another, If politics are not allowed or to be discussed then why are you publishing stories that deal with them. 
    AeanderceltwulfCelciusLeiloniDakeru
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,560
    Aeander said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    I apologize for that,  it was more tongue in cheek *being a smartass* & will keep my politics to myself. But you need to be careful yourself because you are very much threading a linewith your agenda. An agenda that I'm sure I agree with over 80% of, but it's that other 20%. But once again I do apologize if it seemed like an attack
    My only real agenda is that people need to beware of Mike OBrien. 
    Well, don't be surprised when your childish and absurd agenda results in Arenanet no longer sending previews or exclusive features to MMORPG. Most companies don't appreciate baseless defamation towards their CEO. Just saying.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but ultimately, to me, this seems to be a case of blatant clickbait at the cost of journalistic integrity. It will remain as such until you can somehow back up your case.
    I’d rather tell the truth. 
    SBFordTacticalZombeh

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,467
    edited July 2018
    Aeander said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    I apologize for that,  it was more tongue in cheek *being a smartass* & will keep my politics to myself. But you need to be careful yourself because you are very much threading a linewith your agenda. An agenda that I'm sure I agree with over 80% of, but it's that other 20%. But once again I do apologize if it seemed like an attack
    My only real agenda is that people need to beware of Mike OBrien. 
    Well, don't be surprised when your childish and absurd agenda results in Arenanet no longer sending previews or exclusive features to MMORPG. Most companies don't appreciate baseless defamation towards their CEO. Just saying.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but ultimately, to me, this seems to be a case of blatant clickbait at the cost of journalistic integrity. It will remain as such until you can somehow back up your case.
    I’d rather tell the truth. 
    If the truth were your business in this matter, the MO case would have been its own isolated story, not used to water down and overshadow the facts of an inconvenient controversy in which nearly every other media outlet has chosen to do as you have.

    You're better than this, Bill. I usually respect what you have to say, but if you want your story to be respected, you have to be able and willing to back that up with facts, not hearsay and speculation. If you actually have a story to tell, it can wait until you have facts that you know how to use properly and can isolate from an unrelated controversy.
    EponyxDamorWarhawke80YashaXTacticalZombeh
  • celtwulfceltwulf Member UncommonPosts: 61
    thunderC said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    MMORPG im really disappointed in you guys. As i said on PAGE 1 there was no need to not only write another hit piece on Anets decision to fire this loon, But why have another 14 pages of circle jerking. Clearly you are not winning any fans or gaining any support for JP here. 

      I also find it ironic that you warn & ban people  for speaking politics when you clearly start threads and publish articles that are based on just that ! Just off the top of my head here is a few of your more recent, 

    Russian gamers being banned from the internet- 
    Cops shooting unarmed POC after swatting-
    Horny bear stormborn community mod accused of sexual harrasment and blackmail FFARR
    Valve policy change all games allowed on steam
    And now this feminazi nonsense with ArenaNet

    All of those articles deal with politics in one way or another, If politics are not allowed or to be discussed then why are you publishing stories that deal with them. 
    Exactly. When I first started reading into this thread, the authors comments included, it did seem fine to insert my personal politics into it because basically a lot of people were. I evidently was mistaken & it does seem to be a bit hypocritical on MMORPGs side.

    I very much think Bill & MMORPG owe people an apology & I DO NOT include myself in this. I came out guns blazing with my comments so no harm no foul, but he has successfully alienated a large portion of their readers especially the GW2 fans. As I mentioned earlier this has become a quagmire & hopefully he is thinking of a way to set this right instead of doubling down like Price & just making it worse for himself & this site.

    This is all just my opinion though
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,560
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    I apologize for that,  it was more tongue in cheek *being a smartass* & will keep my politics to myself. But you need to be careful yourself because you are very much threading a linewith your agenda. An agenda that I'm sure I agree with over 80% of, but it's that other 20%. But once again I do apologize if it seemed like an attack
    My only real agenda is that people need to beware of Mike OBrien. 
    Well, don't be surprised when your childish and absurd agenda results in Arenanet no longer sending previews or exclusive features to MMORPG. Most companies don't appreciate baseless defamation towards their CEO. Just saying.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but ultimately, to me, this seems to be a case of blatant clickbait at the cost of journalistic integrity. It will remain as such until you can somehow back up your case.
    I’d rather tell the truth. 
    If the truth were your business in this matter, the MO case would have been its own isolated story, not used to water down and overshadow the facts of an inconvenient controversy in which nearly every other media outlet has chosen to do as you have.

    You're better than this, Mike. I usually respect what you have to say, but if you want your story to be respected, you have to be able and willing to back that up with facts, not hearsay and speculation. If you actually have a story to tell, it can wait until you have facts that you know how to use properly and can isolate from an unrelated controversy.
    I’m Bill. But yes, I should have made MO the focus. That I can agree on. It needed more time in then oven. Check my Twitter if you want a better take. 

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,542
    thunderC said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    MMORPG im really disappointed in you guys. As i said on PAGE 1 there was no need to not only write another hit piece on Anets decision to fire this loon, But why have another 14 pages of circle jerking. Clearly you are not winning any fans or gaining any support for JP here. 

      I also find it ironic that you warn & ban people  for speaking politics when you clearly start threads and publish articles that are based on just that ! Just off the top of my head here is a few of your more recent, 

    Russian gamers being banned from the internet- 
    Cops shooting unarmed POC after swatting-
    Horny bear stormborn community mod accused of sexual harrasment and blackmail FFARR
    Valve policy change all games allowed on steam
    And now this feminazi nonsense with ArenaNet

    All of those articles deal with politics in one way or another, If politics are not allowed or to be discussed then why are you publishing stories that deal with them. 
    Would +1 more if I could. 
    celtwulf
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,467
    edited July 2018
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    I apologize for that,  it was more tongue in cheek *being a smartass* & will keep my politics to myself. But you need to be careful yourself because you are very much threading a linewith your agenda. An agenda that I'm sure I agree with over 80% of, but it's that other 20%. But once again I do apologize if it seemed like an attack
    My only real agenda is that people need to beware of Mike OBrien. 
    Well, don't be surprised when your childish and absurd agenda results in Arenanet no longer sending previews or exclusive features to MMORPG. Most companies don't appreciate baseless defamation towards their CEO. Just saying.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but ultimately, to me, this seems to be a case of blatant clickbait at the cost of journalistic integrity. It will remain as such until you can somehow back up your case.
    I’d rather tell the truth. 
    If the truth were your business in this matter, the MO case would have been its own isolated story, not used to water down and overshadow the facts of an inconvenient controversy in which nearly every other media outlet has chosen to do as you have.

    You're better than this, Mike. I usually respect what you have to say, but if you want your story to be respected, you have to be able and willing to back that up with facts, not hearsay and speculation. If you actually have a story to tell, it can wait until you have facts that you know how to use properly and can isolate from an unrelated controversy.
    I’m Bill. But yes, I should have made MO the focus. That I can agree on. It needed more time in then oven. Check my Twitter if you want a better take. 
    Yes, sorry, my bad. I've gotten names mixed up at this point and typed that in haste. Slip of the mind.

    Fair enough. But seriously, a story worth telling is a story worth telling on its own. Presenting Mike as the villain alongside a case in which he is the hero is not helping either story. 
    BillMurphyYashaX
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,122
    edited July 2018
    thunderC said:


      I also find it ironic that you warn & ban people  for speaking politics when you clearly start threads and publish articles that are based on just that ! Just off the top of my head here is a few of your more recent
    I'm going to take umbrage at this comment: Neither Bill nor I are the forum moderators, nor do we hand out bans or warnings. That comes from an independent group of volunteers under the direction of MikeB. Trust me when I tell you that they are much more impartial than I would be in their shoes. 

    If you got a warning, rather than posting snarkily about it here, take it up with @MikeB who is in charge of this whole shootin' match on the forums. He sets the rules and he is the final voice in any warning or ban you may have received.

    EDIT: By the way: Do you know WHY we had to ban political discussion as it applies to gaming here? Do you? I'm sure you don't, but it's because it always travels down the sewer by the end and features name calling and all sorts of other ugly vitriol spewed at one another. You've been here long enough to know that that's true. 

    Is this what we WANT? Hell no, though we keep trying as your "list" indicates. We wish that we could have mature, CIVIL discussions about topics that might touch on politics without all the attendant garbage. You know...like adults. However, that is a rare beast and, ultimately, we curtail a lot of coverage that is interesting and thought-provoking in order to keep the virtual peace. 
    JeffSpicoliacidblood


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • celtwulfceltwulf Member UncommonPosts: 61
    edited July 2018
    SBFord said:
    thunderC said:


      I also find it ironic that you warn & ban people  for speaking politics when you clearly start threads and publish articles that are based on just that ! Just off the top of my head here is a few of your more recent
    I'm going to take umbrage at this comment: Neither Bill nor I are the forum moderators, nor do we hand out bans or warnings. That comes from an independent group of volunteers under the direction of MikeB. Trust me when I tell you that they are much more impartial than I would be in their shoes. 

    If you got a warning, rather than posting snarkily about it here, take it up with @MikeB who is in charge of this whole shootin' match on the forums.
    I don't think they were asking about how to get "unbanned" or anything of that nature. What the statement is saying is why warn someone about their personal politics when you are clearly displaying your own? Why warn someone to stay away from discussing politics at all when the article YOU present is centered around politics? Now I know you may get snippy with me & I'm not trying to be rude but these are legitimate questions & statements
    AeanderJeffSpicoliLeiloni
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,122
    edited July 2018
    celtwulf said:
    SBFord said:
    thunderC said:


      I also find it ironic that you warn & ban people  for speaking politics when you clearly start threads and publish articles that are based on just that ! Just off the top of my head here is a few of your more recent
    I'm going to take umbrage at this comment: Neither Bill nor I are the forum moderators, nor do we hand out bans or warnings. That comes from an independent group of volunteers under the direction of MikeB. Trust me when I tell you that they are much more impartial than I would be in their shoes. 

    If you got a warning, rather than posting snarkily about it here, take it up with @MikeB who is in charge of this whole shootin' match on the forums.
    I don't think they were asking about how to get "unbanned" or anything of that nature. What the statement is saying is why warn someone about their personal politics when you are clearly displaying your own? Why warn someone to stay away from discussing politics at all when the article YOU present is centered around politics? Now I know you may get snippy with me & I'm not trying to be rude but these are legitimate questions & statements
    Bill's article is not centered on politics. You have clearly failed to understand that his thinking is that there is an industry issue with regard to the way employees of companies are treated, this being a very flawed, but still relevant, example.

    My ex used to work at a zoo whose owner had a philosophy that "livestock is dead stock and there's always more livestock to be found". In other words, his animals were expendable because there were always more to be found. 

    It's a relevant example that illustrates what is wrong with the games development industry in many places. Some in power know that they can replace anyone, throw anyone under the bus, and there will always be someone else waiting to step into that role.

    I fully understand people don't want to be unbanned, but if you have issues with the stated rules of the site, take them up with @MikeB.

    And as for "snippy"...why on earth would you assume I would be snippy to you? 


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,567
    Aeander said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    celtwulf said:
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    Bill Murphy, a white knight for self righteous pieces of trash. Funny how you've known all this stuff about ArenaNet for so long & how they do but wait til now to say anything about it. That is some moral compass you have there Mr. White Knight. Unless it's total bullshit & you're just trying to make the crybaby idiot who got fired look better? But hey, at least she can't do anymore harm.
    MO, that you?
    Nope. My name is Michael. I am a Democratic Campaigner & Advocate in the southeast, where we have started winning seats considerably, who wants people to understand that REAL progressives & liberals DO NOT think like you & Miss Price. 
    Just so you’re aware - politics aren’t allowed here. Keep it off the forums, and you’re fine. But also, personal attacks towards staff and other forum members are not allowed, so hold it back there. 
    I apologize for that,  it was more tongue in cheek *being a smartass* & will keep my politics to myself. But you need to be careful yourself because you are very much threading a linewith your agenda. An agenda that I'm sure I agree with over 80% of, but it's that other 20%. But once again I do apologize if it seemed like an attack
    My only real agenda is that people need to beware of Mike OBrien. 
    Well, don't be surprised when your childish and absurd agenda results in Arenanet no longer sending previews or exclusive features to MMORPG. Most companies don't appreciate baseless defamation towards their CEO. Just saying.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but ultimately, to me, this seems to be a case of blatant clickbait at the cost of journalistic integrity. It will remain as such until you can somehow back up your case.
    I’d rather tell the truth. 
    I'd rather lie, but then I'm chaotic neutral.
    SBFord

    "He was a slob, did you ever see him eat? Starving children could fill their bellies on the food that ended up on his beard and clothes. Dogs would gather to watch him eat. I never understood gluttony, but I hate it. I hated that about you. He enjoyed disgusting people, being disgusting, the thrill of offending people and making them uncomfortable.
    . . . . You will not be missed."

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,122

    I'd rather lie, but then I'm chaotic neutral.

    So your avatar shows! :dizzy:

    I <3 you. Thanks for that....this thread needed a chuckle.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 4,467
    edited July 2018
    celtwulf said:
    SBFord said:
    thunderC said:


      I also find it ironic that you warn & ban people  for speaking politics when you clearly start threads and publish articles that are based on just that ! Just off the top of my head here is a few of your more recent
    I'm going to take umbrage at this comment: Neither Bill nor I are the forum moderators, nor do we hand out bans or warnings. That comes from an independent group of volunteers under the direction of MikeB. Trust me when I tell you that they are much more impartial than I would be in their shoes. 

    If you got a warning, rather than posting snarkily about it here, take it up with @MikeB who is in charge of this whole shootin' match on the forums.
    I don't think they were asking about how to get "unbanned" or anything of that nature. What the statement is saying is why warn someone about their personal politics when you are clearly displaying your own? Why warn someone to stay away from discussing politics at all when the article YOU present is centered around politics? Now I know you may get snippy with me & I'm not trying to be rude but these are legitimate questions & statements
    I think these are fair questions. 

    I know why political discussion is a taboo on these forums. It's uninteresting. These days, it's always (and I mean always) going to quickly lead to some extremist far-right mouth-breathers complaining about the "SJW" influence in everything, followed by equally exasperating left-wing extremists coming in to talk down to every poster in the thread regardless of whether or not they were a part of that. There are plenty of examples of that in this very thread. It's not a fun or civil conversation, because extremists are capable of nothing but lies, exaggeration, mudslinging, and label flinging. 

    However, it comes across as arbitrary to ban such discussion when there are clearly efforts by MMORPG staff to push political opinions or discuss political topics. It seems to me that if politics are to be discussed at all, there have to be clearer guidelines on what is and is not civil and allowed political discussion, and that may just not be practical. 
    JeffSpicolivandal5627
  • celtwulfceltwulf Member UncommonPosts: 61
    SBFord said:
    celtwulf said:
    SBFord said:
    thunderC said:


      I also find it ironic that you warn & ban people  for speaking politics when you clearly start threads and publish articles that are based on just that ! Just off the top of my head here is a few of your more recent
    I'm going to take umbrage at this comment: Neither Bill nor I are the forum moderators, nor do we hand out bans or warnings. That comes from an independent group of volunteers under the direction of MikeB. Trust me when I tell you that they are much more impartial than I would be in their shoes. 

    If you got a warning, rather than posting snarkily about it here, take it up with @MikeB who is in charge of this whole shootin' match on the forums.
    I don't think they were asking about how to get "unbanned" or anything of that nature. What the statement is saying is why warn someone about their personal politics when you are clearly displaying your own? Why warn someone to stay away from discussing politics at all when the article YOU present is centered around politics? Now I know you may get snippy with me & I'm not trying to be rude but these are legitimate questions & statements
    Bill's article is not centered on politics. You have clearly failed to understand that his thinking is that there is an industry issue with regard to the way employees of companies are treated, this being a very flawed, but still relevant, example.

    My ex used to work at a zoo whose owner had a philosophy that "livestock is dead stock and there's always more livestock to be found". In other words, his animals were expendable because there were always more to be found. 

    It's a relevant example that illustrates what is wrong with the games development industry in many places. Some in power know that they can replace anyone, throw anyone under the bus, and there will always be someone else waiting to step into that role.

    I fully understand people don't want to be unbanned, but if you have issues with the stated rules of the site, take them up with @MikeB.

    And as for "snippy"...why on earth would you assume I would be snippy to you? 
    I agree 1000% that there is a problem with the way employees are treated but that VERY MUCH is a political issue even if you say it isn't. But..  But for the sake of argument lets just say that it isn't. If you read back through this whole thread there were several times when he came across as standing on a soap box. That's how I took it, that's how lots of others took it. 

    I kind of came out swinging for the fences myself & shouldn't have. I've actually read a lot of Bill's stuff & agree with most of it & have respect for the guy, but he was creating a swamp here & should've set back & said to himself that this is getting nowhere let's try from another angle.

    As for the snippy, well some of your replies to people in the past have been a little on the aggressive side but we are all very much guilty of that. I did it just earlier in the thread.
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