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Guild Wars 2 - Bill Murphy - ArenaNet and the Wisdom of Not Doing Anything - MMORPG.com

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  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    Phry said:
    Xasapis said:
    Phry said:
    catofmany said:
    Wow, the responses here are just...

    There is a reason i don't call myself a gamer. And this just reeks of it.
    Regardless of which side you favour, such a generic form of condemnation probably means we are all better off if you don't call yourself a gamer too. :o
    For the same reason I don't call myself a Driver, while I drive for over 20 years, I also don't call myself a Gamer despite gaming quite a lot. It's a hobby, not a personality defining characteristic.

    Had I been a professional in the field, then I'd call myself a Gamer.
    As someone who has driven as a profession, although only up to class 2 vehicles (hgv) and on a daily basis because living in the countryside you kind of need to be able to drive, i don't consider myself to be a driver, its just something i did as a job once, i do consider myself to be a gamer though, because its my hobby and something i do have a deep interest in.
    You can think of yourself as being or not being whatever you want, its just an opinion either way, others might not agree with you but that is their opinion and they are just as entitled to them as you are to yours.
    Me i am proud to be a gamer and i make no apology for it, nor feel the need to, if someone doesn't want to call themselves a gamer and blanket condemns others for being one, well there is a word for that too. :/  
    Mental constipation? Jaykay!

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Bill choosing not to mention Sexist comments when saying she didn't make Nazi or Racist comments... yea.

    And added info that brings light to Peter Fries firing... he also made it a gender issue:


    Too lazy to click:
    ---------------
    Peter Fries
    "Also see: lopsided defense of mansplaining in your mentions versus outpouring of sympathy for misunderstood dude in his"
    ---------------
    His behavior in the linked archive is also pretty aggressive.

    I feel better about his firing.

    Pardon if someone already mentioned it. There's 11 pages of comments I don't have time to read through.


    If i had to guess i would say that they didn't have a choice when it came to Peter Fries, that Jessica Price had to go is not really in question, but she in effect also got her co worker fired too, because by sacking JP they probably could not be seen to be going soft on another employee who really should have known better, though i would have to say i think its highly likely that if it had been another female co-worker of JP that was involved, i think it more likely that JP would have been the only one sacked, sadly in this day and age there are more than a few feminists out there that would have called it gender discrimination.
    I really do not envy Mike Obrian, it was a tough choice and a necessary one, doing nothing would have been the 'easy' choice, doing the right thing however, takes guts, i am just glad that Mike Obrian had them.
    TacticalZombehblamo2000
  • n3v3rriv3rn3v3rriv3r Member UncommonPosts: 496
    edited July 2018
    Gaming journalism at its best.
    Look at what she said when Total Biscuit passed away

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/8wg4pm/what_jessica_price_had_to_say_on_passing_of/


    ... and you are defending this person and simultaneously defaming people in charge of ArenaNet. Look at this thread. Look at how many people are disgusted of your political agenda. Bljah


    .. oh and the op also posted an analogy with PTSD -- this is just laughable and pathetic.  Yes I am so sympathetic towards this person, she is such a sweetheart.  

    We need bully hunters.
    alkarionlogYashaX
  • ManuteManute Member UncommonPosts: 11
    A lot of Devs seem to forget that it is the players who actually sign their paychecks, and we don't deserve to be treated as S**tons.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,717
    What the heck is up with this "well respected member of the community and content contributor" comments. Any person that is part of the community should be respected by staff regardless of their supposed "standing". People complain that Price was asserting her "privilege" because she was an employee. The member of the community has no more right to "privilege" than Price did. You have freedom of speech, but that does not protect you from the possible fallout of that speech.

    The only thing wrong I see that the A-net did was fire Fries.

    @BillMurphy, I would completely agree with you 100% as written, except that Price decided to put her company and position in her twitter profile. By doing so, she alone elevated her private account to semi-work account. She alone decided to go sideways with the community and that is a huge no no, especially when the community is being civil with you.
    While I agree in part, mentioning Deroir's status is important for multiple reasons.

    The first is that it clarifies that Price damaged the company by not only disrespecting fans, but also by harassing and defaming an officially sponsored partner.

    The second is that it shows stupidity or lack of knowledge on her part. She should have known full well who he is and why he should have been trustworthy to her. She should have known that he wasn't just an internet troll.

    The third is that it points in the direction of the victim's very public comments praising his harasser prior to the incident. This praise also shows why he specifically reached out to her in the first place, and it makes her treatment of him more tragic. He wasn't just a fan, he was HER fan.
    TacticalZombehYashaX
  • n3v3rriv3rn3v3rriv3r Member UncommonPosts: 496
    SBFord said:
    Not offering a single opinion about this, but it's interesting and should offer some more fodder for the discussion:

    https://www.gameworkersunite.org/blog/statement-on-the-arenanet-firings

    Regardless of how one feels about Price's actions and regardless of where one draws the line between rudeness and exasperation in Price's tweets, the fact of the matter is that there is an entire spectrum of responses ArenaNet could have taken, but chose not to. The company could have done anything from pulling their employee aside and discussing their behavior, to giving them an internal reprimand and offered them additional training. Instead, ArenaNet, under the clearly inadequate leadership of Mike O'Brien, made the knee-jerk reaction to fire a member of their team. No dialogue, no nuance, no empathy.

    The unethical firings of Price and Fries, together with the reactions of toxic individuals inside and outside of the Guild Wars player community, have had a chilling effect across the industry. Countless workers have been harassed over social media and many are concerned about the implications of this event, some going so far as to delete their personal social media accounts in fear of similar retaliation from hostile players and bosses. ArenaNet has signaled to the entire industry that our job security can be, and almost certainly will be, imperiled by the most vitriolic and volatile players. This event carries echoes of Gamergate, and will only embolden harassers further.


    Yes we need bully hunters for game devs ... oh wait we already have them ... you, gaming "journalists".  MY HEROES!

    *golfclap*
    FrodoFragins
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,260
    cronius77 said:
    Wow, so many people to reply to. So many people being triggered. One could be forgiven for thinking they were all loony lefty snowflakes, because we all know they're the enemies of free speech.

    Unfortunately it's getting on towards 1 am here in good old blighty and I want to see who else has abandoned Theresa the appeaser, the Brexit betrayer. So I'll say goodnight to all and don't have collective apoplexy.
    lol wow dude you took a debate about some girl popping off at the mouth and turned it completely into a red vs blue argument. If anyone's triggered here it's definitely you. I guess you agree with all the videos out there also of idiots using racial slurs towards people , I guess according to your thought process they should just tough it up and stand for that also right? This woman spewed off banter that made the company look bad if they didn't do anything about it. You turned this into some political correctness argument that doesn't exist. What it boils down to is when you disrespect others on social media you can get canned. It's no different than teachers being fired for drunk pics or talking trash on their facebooks. If you have a high profile job which is viral , you have to use your judgement on what you post.
    Got it in one. Yes, I think they should suck it up. It's words not a smack in the mouth. And it's not red vs blue, at least not in my opinion. You either believe in free speech or you oppose it, regardless of where you fall on the political compass.

    I'm neither red nor blue according to the last result I had on a political compass test. I'm very much "in the middle".

    In yet another example used by someone, why the fuck should a teacher get fired for being drunk? So what if he was on facebook. What if he never took the photo, what if it was his mates? He's never allowed to get shitfaced just because he's a teacher?

    The world has gone mad, I tell you.
    For me that's entirely different. A teacher has every right to have drunk photos of themselves on Facebook. That doesn't make the school look bad or anything so I can't imagine getting fired over that. It's just a normal part of life and he should be free to use Facebook for it's purpose -sharing things with friends and family. Did this really happen?
  • MazingerZMazingerZ Member UncommonPosts: 52
    Phry said:
    Really have to wonder how she managed to get a job at Arenanet in the first place given her history, though perhaps now her future employment opportunities will be severely curtailed, at least within the gaming industry, hard to imagine any developer not looking at this more recent debacle and consider her to be too much of a liablilty and disruptive influence. :/
    She managed to get quietly dismissed from Paizo, and the CEO of that company is both a woman (Lisa Stevens) and fairly progressive.

    The indie dev scene is fawning over her and there were a few writers from Arkane Studios who were standing up for her.  But those folks don't make hiring decisions, so it's pretty much not putting their money where their mouth is.

    Randy Pitchford, CEO of Gearbox, gave tepid support, but walked his statements back when he saw this was not an isolated incident, but a pattern of behavior.
    LeiloniYashaX
  • Warhawke80Warhawke80 Member UncommonPosts: 292
    On who actually loses in all of this, though I don't think they realize it yet.

    Gaming journalism. I spent a good deal of time talking to folks I know in the industry, and they are not actually scared the way Jessica Price said.....if anything they are doing the "I told you so" to their superiors and marketers, who are in turn discussing future narrative and how Naive it is to allow just Tom, Dick or Henrietta (see what I did there?) to form a narrative they have zero control over.  

    My prediction from what I am hearing....

    Expect much less cooperation from developers in the future, expect fewer con showings, and more controlled (As in developer run  ) gaming news sites, also much less developer backed revenue. It won't stop fans from still shouting their opinion, but it's going to be damn hard to make any revenue from it.....and the masses will hear the controlled message, they just will.

    I remember gaming journalism sites started because people that loved games, wanted to talk to the awesome folks that made games, and for a time it was a mutual admiration society......like everything else human nature touches that went to shit, for reasons.

    My prediction is by 2020, there will  be maybe one or two independent game journalism sites ran by hard core fans doing it out of just love making zero dollars......the larger game conglomerates will either buy out the more popular sites or will give theme the middle finger, sue them any time they publish something about their company without permission and send their controlled narrative to the news outlet they created, which will have very strict controlled means of communication.

    Congratulations to RPS, The Verge, Kotaku and Ploygon........you created your own demise. 


  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,260
    edited July 2018
    MazingerZ said:

    I'll let this speak for itself.

    http://archive.fo/qnRGu

    While this is an opinion piece, it's a fairly uninformed one.

    She had a history of doing this at Paizo prior to ArenaNet and was fired for it.

    Do you think that this was an isolated incident?  Her Twitter betrays a pattern of vile behavior and one could make the argument that she abused a political ideology in order to be a terrible person.

    Just to elaborate on some of her history, Wulfgarion on Reddit posted this nice summary on r/MMORPG.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/8wp3b9/jessica_price_to_kotaku_after_the_gw2_incident/e1ya162/
    Roll me in butter and call me a squash, this will take some digging.

    copy pasta of a previous post:

    She was fired for her previous job for this same exact behavior.
    She called a whole country racist and told em to fuck off.
    She claims that Infinity Wars is some sort of nazi propaganda.
    She even gladly celebrated Totalbiscuit's DEATH.
    edit: she also promotes support for terrorist groups like antifa.


    Warhawke80MazingerZYashaX
  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    Let's be clear about what has occurred here. The reason why this story has gone viral well beyond the confines of gaming websites is not over whether a company was in the right to release employees over breaking rules but that it was done so publicly and quickly. 

    It IS standard corporate practice to fire employees blatantly breaking rules. It is NOT standard practice to fire employees PUBLICLY and in real time over social media. That is beyond making a statement. It is a declaration.

    ArenaNet is distancing itself from any form of SJW style practices. Jessica Price claimed she was being victimized by sexist profiling while using sexist attacks in a conversation where none existed. She has a clear record of doing this repeatedly levied against her position within an industry. This is political agenda.

    ArenaNet did not have to do this publicly ... but they did. They severed those 2 employees with a proverbial french revolution guillotine.
    BillMurphySBFord

    You stay sassy!

  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,179
    Tamanous said:
    Let's be clear about what has occurred here. The reason why this story has gone viral well beyond the confines of gaming websites is not over whether a company was in the right to release employees over breaking rules but that it was done so publicly and quickly. 

    It IS standard corporate practice to fire employees blatantly breaking rules. It is NOT standard practice to fire employees PUBLICLY and in real time over social media. That is beyond making a statement. It is a declaration.

    ArenaNet is distancing itself from any form of SJW style practices. Jessica Price claimed she was being victimized by sexist profiling while using sexist attacks in a conversation where none existed. She has a clear record of doing this repeatedly levied against her position within an industry. This is political agenda.

    ArenaNet did not have to do this publicly ... but they did. They severed those 2 employees with a proverbial french revolution guillotine.
    In an incident like this, it is standard a company say how they handled the issue, they handled it by letting the two employees go. This isn't some new practice, it is a very standard one these days for companies in the spotlight.
    LeiloniYashaX
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 5,717
    edited July 2018
    Aori said:
    Tamanous said:
    Let's be clear about what has occurred here. The reason why this story has gone viral well beyond the confines of gaming websites is not over whether a company was in the right to release employees over breaking rules but that it was done so publicly and quickly. 

    It IS standard corporate practice to fire employees blatantly breaking rules. It is NOT standard practice to fire employees PUBLICLY and in real time over social media. That is beyond making a statement. It is a declaration.

    ArenaNet is distancing itself from any form of SJW style practices. Jessica Price claimed she was being victimized by sexist profiling while using sexist attacks in a conversation where none existed. She has a clear record of doing this repeatedly levied against her position within an industry. This is political agenda.

    ArenaNet did not have to do this publicly ... but they did. They severed those 2 employees with a proverbial french revolution guillotine.
    In an incident like this, it is standard a company say how they handled the issue, they handled it by letting the two employees go. This isn't some new practice, it is a very standard one these days for companies in the spotlight.
    Right. It wasn't about making a public political statement. The employees in question made themselves a publicly visible issue to the playerbase. Any resolution to that issue also had to be visible to the playerbase, within the limits of any applicable privacy laws.
    MadFrenchieLeiloniYashaX
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,667
    On who actually loses in all of this, though I don't think they realize it yet.

    Gaming journalism. I spent a good deal of time talking to folks I know in the industry, and they are not actually scared the way Jessica Price said.....if anything they are doing the "I told you so" to their superiors and marketers, who are in turn discussing future narrative and how Naive it is to allow just Tom, Dick or Henrietta (see what I did there?) to form a narrative they have zero control over.  

    My prediction from what I am hearing....

    Expect much less cooperation from developers in the future, expect fewer con showings, and more controlled (As in developer run  ) gaming news sites, also much less developer backed revenue. It won't stop fans from still shouting their opinion, but it's going to be damn hard to make any revenue from it.....and the masses will hear the controlled message, they just will.

    I remember gaming journalism sites started because people that loved games, wanted to talk to the awesome folks that made games, and for a time it was a mutual admiration society......like everything else human nature touches that went to shit, for reasons.

    My prediction is by 2020, there will  be maybe one or two independent game journalism sites ran by hard core fans doing it out of just love making zero dollars......the larger game conglomerates will either buy out the more popular sites or will give theme the middle finger, sue them any time they publish something about their company without permission and send their controlled narrative to the news outlet they created, which will have very strict controlled means of communication.

    Congratulations to RPS, The Verge, Kotaku and Ploygon........you created your own demise. 


    This has already pretty much happened. Game journalism based sites like Kotaku are dying out. Youtube and Twitch are replacing them. In some cases, for some people, they already have. 
    EponyxDamor
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,667
    Tamanous said:
    Let's be clear about what has occurred here. The reason why this story has gone viral well beyond the confines of gaming websites is not over whether a company was in the right to release employees over breaking rules but that it was done so publicly and quickly. 

    It IS standard corporate practice to fire employees blatantly breaking rules. It is NOT standard practice to fire employees PUBLICLY and in real time over social media. That is beyond making a statement. It is a declaration.

    ArenaNet is distancing itself from any form of SJW style practices. Jessica Price claimed she was being victimized by sexist profiling while using sexist attacks in a conversation where none existed. She has a clear record of doing this repeatedly levied against her position within an industry. This is political agenda.

    ArenaNet did not have to do this publicly ... but they did. They severed those 2 employees with a proverbial french revolution guillotine.
    Actually, they did have to do it publically. If they secretly fired them, it would have been an even BIGGER controversy then it is now. The headlines would read something like "ArenaNet fires 2 employees secretly over social media debate" on sites like Kotaku. 
    YashaX
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    edited July 2018
    I have an inkling that the ONLY reason it was done so publicly was for MO to seem like the "Hero" or "Good Guy" to the community. But then, that's only based on what I know from folks who have or do work at ANet. This sort of stuff happens a LOT, not just at ANet - people in power outright abusing those below them. And the fact that this is done so pubicly, despite the wrongdoing (and it was just that) of Jessica Price, is a bad look for ArenaNet, except to the fans. And that's precisely what MO knows.

    I guess that's my main point. 

    I'm not trying to make the man look bad either. To those who know, he already does look bad. People don't come out publicly because they know it would burn bridges and be bad for their careers. And that's a shame. But since writing this I've had people from in and outside of ArenaNet come to me and tell me they appreciated the article because it brings up his actions past and present at the company and at previous work at Blizzard too. There are many things about these we will never know.

    To me, the story shouldn't be about Price, but about MO and the public nature of the whole issue. 

    The firing isn't ONLY about MO. But the PUBLIC nature of it is entirely meant for him to garner support from Reddit/GuildWars2, and little else. One person who contacted me even called the man a Sociopath and had to go to therapy because of their time working with him.

    I've met him 2 or 3 times, and he was always kind to me. But I've heard enough horror stories about working there that I think it's valuable to not let him hide behind his position as President.

    The next time he comes out and makes a public spectacle on something other than the game's patches or updates - keep this in mind: he's doing it just to get the adulation of the community, even if he's stomping down on those below him.
    alkarionlogn3v3rriv3rSephirosoAeanderJeffSpicoliYashaX

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • MazingerZMazingerZ Member UncommonPosts: 52
    edited July 2018
    Tamanous said:
    Let's be clear about what has occurred here. The reason why this story has gone viral well beyond the confines of gaming websites is not over whether a company was in the right to release employees over breaking rules but that it was done so publicly and quickly. 

    It IS standard corporate practice to fire employees blatantly breaking rules. It is NOT standard practice to fire employees PUBLICLY and in real time over social media. That is beyond making a statement. It is a declaration.

    ArenaNet is distancing itself from any form of SJW style practices. Jessica Price claimed she was being victimized by sexist profiling while using sexist attacks in a conversation where none existed. She has a clear record of doing this repeatedly levied against her position within an industry. This is political agenda.

    ArenaNet did not have to do this publicly ... but they did. They severed those 2 employees with a proverbial french revolution guillotine.
    Mike O'Brien's statement quoted in the Polygon article made it very clear they were aware of things as of the 4th, but the office was closed.

    Even Price's account claims that she was called into a meeting and was fired there.  She was not fired "in real time" over social media.

    O'Brien then made an announcement to the community, which was only proper, as Jessica Price had made this a community ordeal.

    Remember Adam Orth?  The guy from Xbox who mocked everyone who complained about Always Online?

    He was also fired rather publicly.  No one cared to interview him however.

    Or crucify Xbox for it.

    Can't imagine why.
    I'm not trying to make the man look bad either. To those who know, he already does look bad.
    What kind of double-speak is this?

    Bill, just admit you don't like Mike O'Brien and it's coloring everything you in regards to ArenaNet and Guild Wars 2.

    At least if you put that disclaimer up, you'd be taken seriously.

    Your entire article reeks of a bias, which you're going at great lengths to assure us is entirely justified without showing receipts.

    Step off, mate.
    alkarionlogWarhawke80TacticalZombehMowzerLeiloniDakeruYashaX
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited July 2018
    I have an inkling that the ONLY reason it was done so publicly was for MO to seem like the "Hero" or "Good Guy" to the community. But then, that's only based on what I know from folks who have or do work at ANet. This sort of stuff happens a LOT, not just at ANet - people in power outright abusing those below them. And the fact that this is done so pubicly, despite the wrongdoing (and it was just that) of Jessica Price, is a bad look for ArenaNet, except to the fans. And that's precisely what MO knows.

    I guess that's my main point. 

    I'm not trying to make the man look bad either. To those who know, he already does look bad. People don't come out publicly because they know it would burn bridges and be bad for their careers. And that's a shame. But since writing this I've had people from in and outside of ArenaNet come to me and tell me they appreciated the article because it brings up his actions past and present at the company. There are many we will never know about.

    To me, the story shouldn't be about Price, but about MO and the public nature of the whole issue. 

    The firing isn't ONLY about MO. But the PUBLIC nature of it is entirely meant for him to garner support from Reddit/GuildWars2, and little else. One person who contacted me even called the man a Sociopath and had to go to therapy because of their time working with him.

    I've met him 2 or 3 times, and he was always kind to me. But I've heard enough horror stories about working there that I think it's valuable to not let him hide behind his position as President.
    I don't disagree, but this wasn't internal insubordination on the part of Price- it was a very public attempt to shame, from what I can tell, an otherwise cherished member of the community.  If you're going to publicly shame someone as a respresentative of a company discussing company work, you have to make damn sure you are in the right about it and the act worth shaming is pretty much objectively so.  That was not nearly the case here.

    In the end, whether MO leveraged it for PR points or not, the community wanted to know the end result of this.  We can debate whether they were entitled to it, but the fact that the act that caused her firing was very publicly made against another very public member of the community makes me lean towards "Yes."

    Again, I invite anyone fearing for their jobs when interacting with the community to look to Oskar Gabrielson's handling of the #NotMyBattlefield group.  He was very firm in rebuking the group (one whose action much more heavily warranted that rebuke than Deroir ever got here), even using a bit of sarcasm to drive home the ridiculousness of the group's goal.  However, he kept it professional.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    BillMurphyAeanderLeiloni

    image
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    MazingerZ said:

    What kind of double-speak is this?

    Bill, just admit you don't like Mike O'Brien and it's coloring everything you write.

    At least if you put that disclaimer up, you'd be taken seriously.

    Your entire article reeks of a bias, which you're going at great lengths to assure us is entirely justified without showing receipts.

    Step off, mate.
    Um, no? Because this is kind of my job. I can't name my sources, but I do have them. This whole thing is bogus. Maybe she should have been fired. I wouldn't have, but I've already said what I would have done. My point is that this whole thing goes way to the top of AN, and it's not going to stop. If anything, it's only going to get worse now that it's seen as a way to "please" people for MO. 

    I'm not trying to rub you or anyone the wrong way, but rather to put the truth out there. It's yours to do with as you please. 
    alkarionlogJeffSpicoliYashaX

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • MazingerZMazingerZ Member UncommonPosts: 52
    MazingerZ said:

    What kind of double-speak is this?

    Bill, just admit you don't like Mike O'Brien and it's coloring everything you write.

    At least if you put that disclaimer up, you'd be taken seriously.

    Your entire article reeks of a bias, which you're going at great lengths to assure us is entirely justified without showing receipts.

    Step off, mate.
    Um, no? Because this is kind of my job. I can't name my sources, but I do have them. This whole thing is bogus. Maybe she should have been fired. I wouldn't have, but I've already said what I would have done. My point is that this whole thing goes way to the top of AN, and it's not going to stop. If anything, it's only going to get worse now that it's seen as a way to "please" people for MO. 

    I'm not trying to rub you or anyone the wrong way, but rather to put the truth out there. It's yours to do with as you please. 
    Then it's all hearsay and hearsay is the realm of the gossip-monger.

    There's a mountain of evidence showing how poorly Jessica Price acted, how she has a history of volatility and burning bridges after being removed from positions.  All there and objective for people clear as day.  Being traded around social media

    Meanwhile...

    Bill Murphy: I have SOURCES.  They tell me Mike O'Brien is a terrible person!  Believe me, because I'm a journalist!

    Bill, you didn't even bother to name one instance of a company answerable to its parent or its shareholders that has actually defended an employee who's created this type of PR disaster with open and vitriolic mockery at a well known and respected customer and business partner.

    Because they don't exist.

    A CEO's job is to protect the company.  If protecting the employees is in its best interest, it will do so.  If firing them is in its best interest, it will do so.
    GhavriggAeanderalkarionlogWarhawke80Threatlevel0TacticalZombehLeiloniDakeruYashaX
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,988
    edited July 2018
    MazingerZ said:

    What kind of double-speak is this?

    Bill, just admit you don't like Mike O'Brien and it's coloring everything you write.

    At least if you put that disclaimer up, you'd be taken seriously.

    Your entire article reeks of a bias, which you're going at great lengths to assure us is entirely justified without showing receipts.

    Step off, mate.
    Um, no? Because this is kind of my job. I can't name my sources, but I do have them. This whole thing is bogus. Maybe she should have been fired. I wouldn't have, but I've already said what I would have done. My point is that this whole thing goes way to the top of AN, and it's not going to stop. If anything, it's only going to get worse now that it's seen as a way to "please" people for MO. 

    I'm not trying to rub you or anyone the wrong way, but rather to put the truth out there. It's yours to do with as you please. 
    You must see though for us that this is unsubstantiated allegations, as opposed to what can be read on Twitter. I even take a healthy pinch of salt about what I read on Twitter, let alone what I can't read myself. I should point out that I do believe you, it just that how much can that inform what I think about this?

    As I can see good reason for her to go, and poor PR reasons for him to go, I see no need for something behind this other than that. Indeed you even implied (I think) MO might have had no direct involvement and this was done because he would have wanted it done that way. Well that's down to his staff as much as him.
    Threatlevel0

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    ScotGhavriggalkarionlogTorvalmaskedweasel

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    MazingerZ said:

    What kind of double-speak is this?

    Bill, just admit you don't like Mike O'Brien and it's coloring everything you write.

    At least if you put that disclaimer up, you'd be taken seriously.

    Your entire article reeks of a bias, which you're going at great lengths to assure us is entirely justified without showing receipts.

    Step off, mate.
    Um, no? Because this is kind of my job. I can't name my sources, but I do have them. This whole thing is bogus. Maybe she should have been fired. I wouldn't have, but I've already said what I would have done. My point is that this whole thing goes way to the top of AN, and it's not going to stop. If anything, it's only going to get worse now that it's seen as a way to "please" people for MO. 

    I'm not trying to rub you or anyone the wrong way, but rather to put the truth out there. It's yours to do with as you please. 
    Maybe it will, as you know more about MO's actions than we obviously do.   But this situation with Price seems a very poor poster child for that point.
    AeanderScotBillMurphyMazingerZEponyxDamorThreatlevel0TacticalZombehDakeruYashaX

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  • VesaviusVesavius Member RarePosts: 7,905
    edited July 2018
    Well done AN, I say. Marvel Comics and Lucasfilm should learn a lesson from you.

    Price acted like a grade A douche and paid the price. It's not a complicated story at all, except for the the white knights rushing to make it so.
    GhavriggWarhawke80LeiloniDakeruYashaX
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,988
    I said it’s not about JP. This goes above and beyond this single instance. But well, I know what I know. I’ve said what I can say. Totally fine if you think I’m crazy. :)
    We don't think you are crazy Bill, we will need a few posted rants, derogatory outbursts at random individuals, obsessive zeroing in on issues which you will not let go of...ever. :)
    BillMurphySBFord

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

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