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Why are MMORPG players less grief tolerant?

My son plays Ark and they have their bases destroyed and dinos killed. These type of things would horrify the average MMORPG player.  Full loot, base destroyed and dinos killed is just something to take in stride. This game does have character development and grinding for buildings. 

MMORPG players on the hand seem to hate being killed or grieved even they lose very little.  Why is there a stark difference?   
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Comments

  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 274
    I don't know but then I DON'T play those kind of games. Also how fair is it when there is a big difference in "power". That is where from the killed stand point they don't see what the killer got out of it outside of some sadistic desire to cause grief.
    craftseekerMellowTigger
  • Big.Daddy.SamediBig.Daddy.Samedi Member UncommonPosts: 265
    The difference is often that the items in stuff like ARK are easier to come by. It is also a matter of chosen play styles. I don't go in to an FPS game and get mad because it doesn't have deep character advancement. However I think you underestimate how many people play on private servers to keep that griefing to a minimum on ARK, Conan, Citadel, DnL, etc.
    MadFrenchiecraftseekerjimmywolfRhoklawLeilonifree2play

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,526
    The popularity of private server support for survival games would support the idea that, even within those games, most do not want to leave their progress to the mercy of others.
    UngoodJean-Luc_PicardRobsolfRhoklawQuizzicalMellowTigger

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  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,011
    For me it is easy to explain for a person viewpoint.  I play games to have fun, not to be someones else sick enjoyment.  In a game like ARK I don't think it is really griefing when people attack bases ect... if you are on public servers, that is just part of the game and it was designed for that.  To me griefing is spam killing someone, mob stealing, stuff like that.
    craftseekerRobsolfPsYcHoGBR
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 30,799
    edited July 9
    Children don't value their time and progression the same way as most adults do, hence the popularity of minecraft, ark and others among their age group.

    For them, there is always another tomorrow, while adults come to understand with each passing year how untrue that really is.

    Some adults don't value their time very much either, judging from the many bad games they'll play.

    ;)
    Post edited by Kyleran on
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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 5,265
    OP, the main thing that's changed over the years with the general mmorpg community is choice. People simply can go or threaten to go play something else if even the slightest thing set them off, vs the past where you either had limited options and/or everything costed money up front with a large number having subs that were available.
    Leiloni
  • centkincentkin Member UncommonPosts: 1,374
    Grief Tolerant?  Now I have heard everything. 
    AlBQuirkyohioastro
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 7,655
    Kyleran said:
    Children don't value their time and progression the same way as most adults do, hence the popularity of minecraft, ark and others among their age group.

    For them, there is always another tomorrow, while adults come to understand with each passing year how untrue that really is.
    Definitely this.
    The value of time drastically changes once you realize you won't live forever.

    Personally, I won't play a game where I can lose everything to some bored teenage basement dweller who plays 5x more than me and against whom I am totally unable to defend myself.

    People in "real" life who intentionally act like assholes and make me waste my time for no good reason can be dealt with directly.
    In a game, if there aren't harsh and fail safe mechanics to stop such people from making me waste my time, I will pass that game.
    PhrypostlarvalRobsolfKyleranGdemamiTorval
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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 5,265
    Well this thread quickly spun into a philosophy class and now I'm depressed....time to find something to play!
  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,078
    It depends on the design of the game.

    For example in fps, there is some cases of total oppression, but what are the players actually losing is nothing in really in terms of progress to the character.

    Its only an issue of skill.

    In an mmo there is a grind, and therefore when a player plays a game of progression, he will feel a lack of accomplishment if they can not progress.

    And in some cases, for those that are 'perfectionists', they want to progress very effeciently, which would be strange for them to play in FFA pvp server while questing and having that mentality.

    However, griefing is an abuse of a pvp rule set, so its not just about effeciency to a situation that can be considered denial of progress.

    So it really depends on the mmo design as well, and how things balance out. Even if its a progression mmo, and there is a feeling of 'grief' it might be part of the deisgn to offer a roller coaster of emotions to the player but there should also be a counter to that as well... and not just griefing that is abused. So the player gets some kind of 'closure' to their experience and its not just an abuse of the system.
    Steelhelm

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  • GruntyGrunty Member RarePosts: 8,468
    edited July 9

    Why would I tolerate being griefed by a stranger?  Only a very few of my friends are allowed to do that.
    Post edited by Grunty on
    PhryTorvalcraftseekerQuizzicalAlBQuirky
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  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,255
    @OP

    It looks to me it's your son who is exceptionally grief tolerant and patient person compared to other people.
    I haven't played ARK (and i'm pretty sure i never will after reading this thread), but if there was any chance i could lose Ironfoe in WoW after 100+ BRD runs or someone could destroy my 50+ hour Civilization marathon game or even come and sabotage my car setup in Dirt Rally, i'd seriously question the mental health of people who designed those games.
    craftseeker
  • RouzukiRouzuki Member UncommonPosts: 66
    edited July 9
    MMORPGs are typically heavily based on PvE content. Griefing isn't normal PvP or Pking, it's harassing players who are usually trying to do said PvE content over and over again for the sake of getting ones kicks and seeing the other player become upset. 

    Post edited by Rouzuki on
    jimmywolfcraftseekerAlverant
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 5,929
    Rouzuki said:
    MMORPGs are typically heavily based on PvE content. Griefing isn't normal PvP or Pking, it's harassing players who are usually trying to do said PvE content over and over again for the sake of getting ones kicks and seeing the other player become upset. 

    Which game is this currently happening in ?
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,303
    My son plays Ark and they have their bases destroyed and dinos killed. These type of things would horrify the average MMORPG player.  Full loot, base destroyed and dinos killed is just something to take in stride. This game does have character development and grinding for buildings. 

    MMORPG players on the hand seem to hate being killed or grieved even they lose very little.  Why is there a stark difference?   
    One has frequent resets while the other doesn't.  One is inherent to the game while the other is optional and a nuisance
    LeiloniAlBQuirky
  • jimmywolfjimmywolf Member UncommonPosts: 191
    Scorchien said:
    Rouzuki said:
    MMORPGs are typically heavily based on PvE content. Griefing isn't normal PvP or Pking, it's harassing players who are usually trying to do said PvE content over and over again for the sake of getting ones kicks and seeing the other player become upset. 

    Which game is this currently happening in ?
    it been tone down a lot that why the term carebear got threw around from those that like to gank since the outcry curb most ways to grief in many MMO's. unless it was include as  a " feature " as part of the game experience, albion , BDO are more recent ones. their more but their mostly forgotten old MMO's .



  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 5,929
    jimmywolf said:
    Scorchien said:
    Rouzuki said:
    MMORPGs are typically heavily based on PvE content. Griefing isn't normal PvP or Pking, it's harassing players who are usually trying to do said PvE content over and over again for the sake of getting ones kicks and seeing the other player become upset. 

    Which game is this currently happening in ?
    it been tone down a lot that why the term carebear got threw around from those that like to gank since the outcry curb most ways to grief in many MMO's. unless it was include as  a " feature " as part of the game experience, albion , BDO are more recent ones. their more but their mostly forgotten old MMO's .
      Its not happening in any MMO that does not say so in the ruleset ,    So if a player does not like that style of game play , Dont play that game ... Its really very simple , There are games that cater to every kind of ruleset out there , Play the games your comfortable with , and dont go into others with unrealsitic expectaions .. If its a PVP game guess what .. your gonna get pvp , You cant take a person seriously that , Goes into a PVP game gets killed then cries about , That person has 0 credibility ..
    Gdemami
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,492
    edited July 9
    Well how about putting those kids in a MMOPRG where that happens and see what they say, it is not really a fair comparison.

    There is room for a MMORPG that gives the player setbacks, but if it goes too far and players come to think of it as griefing then it is not surprising they react again that.


    Edit: Having previously been called a grammar Nazi, I was pulled up for the question mark. :)
    Post edited by Scot on
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  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 2,982
    edited July 9
    My son plays Ark and they have their bases destroyed and dinos killed. These type of things would horrify the average MMORPG player.  Full loot, base destroyed and dinos killed is just something to take in stride. This game does have character development and grinding for buildings. 

    MMORPG players on the hand seem to hate being killed or grieved even they lose very little.  Why is there a stark difference?   
    there are two types of players:

    pve and pvp. 

    arc players obviously prefer pvp... since there isn't much else in arc anyway.
    the normal mmo player is a pve player.

    ever tried telling a daoc player he does not like killing or being killed? yea, s/he would have laughed at you.

    anyway, pvp mmos are a niche game.
    Post edited by Thane on
    craftseeker

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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 5,929
    Scot said:
    Well how about putting those kids in a MMOPRG where that happens and see what they say, it is not really a fair comparison?

    There is room for a MMORPG that gives the player setbacks, but if it goes too far and players come to think of it as griefing then it is not surprising they react again that.
    ? This isnt making sense
    Scot
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member UncommonPosts: 1,663
    edited July 9
    When you lost few hundreds of $ because some ***holes want some fun .

    MMORPG things value is real though everything of it is virtual .
    Post edited by iixviiiix on
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 5,929
    iixviiiix said:
    When you lost few hundreds of $ because some ***holes want some fun .
    How did that happen?

    Kyleran
  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 2,982
    edited July 9
    Scorchien said:
    iixviiiix said:
    When you lost few hundreds of $ because some ***holes want some fun .
    How did that happen?

    there is a saying in eve (and for the record, i doubt eve online is played by kids, just to counter some of the bullshit arguments above):

    don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it :pensive:


    the prob abouts "griefing"? no one likes it. griefers do, and per definition, griefers are assholes :)
    pvp on the other hand? different story.

    Post edited by Thane on

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 5,929
    edited July 9
    Thane said:
    Scorchien said:
    iixviiiix said:
    When you lost few hundreds of $ because some ***holes want some fun .
    How did that happen?

    there is a saying in eve (and for the record, i doubt eve online is played by kids, just to counter some of the bullshit arguments above):

    don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it :pensive:


    the prob abouts "griefing"? no one likes it. griefers do, and per definition, griefers are assholes :)
    pvp on the other hand? different story.

    If a person ( and no one in particular here)  goes into Eve does RMT to get a ship and loses it,  then cries Griefer ,, that person is a fucking idiot on several levels and got what they deserve
    Post edited by Scorchien on
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    The really annoying MMO griefing I seen is when a couple of high levels follow some noob and spawn camp him for hours, I don't think it can get that bad in games like Ark, That was in older MMOs though and there you lost XP as well when you died so you basically had to start over after something like that, and you never knew if those people would come back and do the same thing next day.

    It was rather common in Lineage when I played back in 2001. The good thing there was that you actually couldn't see your opponents level so I often pretended to be a noob when I heard someone in my bloodpledge got ganked by a highlevel or 2. :) Those guys often got a really nasty surprise.

    I dunno how much griefing there actually is today in most games though, since they instance PvP there should be a lot less of it.
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