Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Awesome Interview on CRPG's and their Future

blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,773
Awesome interview with quotes from various developers in the genre about the future of CRPGs. 
From writing to VR to emergent gameplay


One quote I liked from Brian Fargo:

.....Specifically, he predicts that somebody will make a party-based RPG set in a large sandbox world. 

“I can see you doing a Pillars of Eternity-style game, but with all of Forgotten Realms’ Sword Coast. Nobody has taken the sandbox and the party-based game and really run with it." 


https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/06/26/clear-100-hours-in-your-calendar-cos-crpgs-are-here-to-stay/

거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












MadFrenchieMrMelGibsonTorvalAsm0deusbartoni33
«1

Comments

  • acidbloodacidblood Member UncommonPosts: 753
    ..." Nobody has taken the sandbox and the party-based game and really run with it."
    For some reason that made me think of Jagged Alliance 2.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,057
    Pillars of Eternity is an excellent example of how to bring old school design philosophy into the modern era.  The philosophies held there should be the model for games that want to throw back to the "old school" philosophy of heavy interdependence and a focus on community building and long-term retention.

    Old school doesn't have to mean hard to work UIs, labyrinthian zones with zero navigational aids, and completely helpless clerics.  It just needs to pursue the same old school philosophies in new school ways.
    blueturtle13NycteliosAsm0deusbartoni33

    image
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 2,692
    Pillars of Eternity is an excellent example of how to bring old school design philosophy into the modern era.  The philosophies held there should be the model for games that want to throw back to the "old school" philosophy of heavy interdependence and a focus on community building and long-term retention.

    Old school doesn't have to mean hard to work UIs, labyrinthian zones with zero navigational aids, and completely helpless clerics.  It just needs to pursue the same old school philosophies in new school ways.
    Tyranny too. I hope most games focus on speech options that has consequences and opens possibilities to role play.
    blueturtle13MadFrenchiebartoni33

    “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” ― Patrick RothfussThe Wise Man's Fear


    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,773
    Nyctelios said:
    Pillars of Eternity is an excellent example of how to bring old school design philosophy into the modern era.  The philosophies held there should be the model for games that want to throw back to the "old school" philosophy of heavy interdependence and a focus on community building and long-term retention.

    Old school doesn't have to mean hard to work UIs, labyrinthian zones with zero navigational aids, and completely helpless clerics.  It just needs to pursue the same old school philosophies in new school ways.
    Tyranny too. I hope most games focus on speech options that has consequences and opens possibilities to role play.
    Agreed. I actually like Tyranny much better than PoE because of the moral gameplay elements
    NycteliosTorval

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 2,692
    Nyctelios said:
    Pillars of Eternity is an excellent example of how to bring old school design philosophy into the modern era.  The philosophies held there should be the model for games that want to throw back to the "old school" philosophy of heavy interdependence and a focus on community building and long-term retention.

    Old school doesn't have to mean hard to work UIs, labyrinthian zones with zero navigational aids, and completely helpless clerics.  It just needs to pursue the same old school philosophies in new school ways.
    Tyranny too. I hope most games focus on speech options that has consequences and opens possibilities to role play.
    Agreed. I actually like Tyranny much better than PoE because of the moral gameplay elements
    I like it because almost every conversation has a *Slap him/her in the face* option. "I'm the villain here, stfu!"
    blueturtle13

    “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” ― Patrick RothfussThe Wise Man's Fear


    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,174
    edited June 29
    I am not sure his initial statement bears up? CRPG went away because better looking RPG's came along, leading to The Witcher and Dragon Age. But gaming companies became reticent to give huge budgets to new such RPG titles. He makes it sound like a fashion swept out and came back in. So CRPG came back to the fore because unless it is a big franchise RPG does not get a look in to the sort of money they will be putting into the next Assassins Creed etc.

    As we have a paucity of AAA RPG games with AAA graphics I put up with CRPG, but I would prefer it was a thing of the past and we got the games we deserve. That said I really enjoy them, PoE was really great, I just wish we eventually get a PoE made with the production values of DA.

    Tyranny is also a favourite, but I would not say it is a better or worse game than PoE, it rather stands alone as we get so few games like it.
    Post edited by Scot on

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 17,504
    When you guys are saying CRPG are you specifically referring to games that use some sort of axonometric projection as the perspective? To me, CRPG just means computer RPG. I'm old so I remember using it to distinguish from TT (table top) RPGs when we would have discussions because that's where the confusion used to lie.

    Concerning the OP and Fargo's thought, hell yes. We need to explore how to use our technologies to deliver better game experiences. That is what I see him saying, we have the technology to explore possibilities people haven't yet done.

    Blueturtle and I were chatting this morning about Shadow of War and how incredible the Nemesis System is and how it could be leveraged in new ways for all sorts of games.

    So imagine a party based, persistent world RPG sandbox. Imagine you could invite friends to join and they would replace your NPCs (like Guild Wars or Diablo 3). But as you kill enemy leaders, throughout the Sword Coast as in Fargo's example, others would take their place. Imagine if they escaped (because living to fight another day would be a smart option) and then they hunted you.

    There are a lot of things left unexplored. My opinion is most studios and publishers want to do GaaS. These sorts of features might not support or work well in that framework so they're not being pursued. Blueturtle also pointed out the algorithms for such an AI must be incredibly complex so coding them well is expensive.
    blueturtle13ScotAsm0deus
    *INCOMING RADIOACTIVE SUPERCELL*

    ...silent protagonist, Interloper, Traveller...
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,918
    I just see Brian Fargo - and I go get my wallet, don't even need to read any details.
    blueturtle13
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,057
    edited June 29
    Torval said:
    When you guys are saying CRPG are you specifically referring to games that use some sort of axonometric projection as the perspective? To me, CRPG just means computer RPG. I'm old so I remember using it to distinguish from TT (table top) RPGs when we would have discussions because that's where the confusion used to lie.

    Concerning the OP and Fargo's thought, hell yes. We need to explore how to use our technologies to deliver better game experiences. That is what I see him saying, we have the technology to explore possibilities people haven't yet done.

    Blueturtle and I were chatting this morning about Shadow of War and how incredible the Nemesis System is and how it could be leveraged in new ways for all sorts of games.

    So imagine a party based, persistent world RPG sandbox. Imagine you could invite friends to join and they would replace your NPCs (like Guild Wars or Diablo 3). But as you kill enemy leaders, throughout the Sword Coast as in Fargo's example, others would take their place. Imagine if they escaped (because living to fight another day would be a smart option) and then they hunted you.

    There are a lot of things left unexplored. My opinion is most studios and publishers want to do GaaS. These sorts of features might not support or work well in that framework so they're not being pursued. Blueturtle also pointed out the algorithms for such an AI must be incredibly complex so coding them well is expensive.
    This, exactly this.  And I agree that these things don't need to be limited to the cRPG term as it's applied today (The term does hearken back to the time when cRPG was used to distinguish between TT and cRPG, which is why it evokes the Infinity Engine style RPGs when used).

    The largest amount of time is spent trying to explore a way to continually open wallets, when CDPR, Larian, and Obsidian are still living proof you can open our wallets, quite happily so, by delivering quality games and DLCs that hold that same quality and add actual content instead of just for-purchase skins or gambling mechanisms.  I hate to generalize, but it seems apt: lootboxes and skins are low-hanging fruit for devs, period.  It's easy mode monetization.

    The Nemesis system would work well not only in multiplayer party-based cRPG style games, but games like Destiny, because encounters can still be tailored to personal experiences.  In fact, playing through some things individually would only mean that, when you and your buddies came together to party up, you'd have that much more branching mini-narratives that are personal to each individual that could be leveraged into party-based content.  You and your buddies can then assist one another in furthering their own personal content through things such as a Nemesis system that altered encounters based on prior play performed separately.  Alternatively, you can embark on a party content line that is consistent for all of the players involved, not unlike the Justice League or Avengers line of comics.  The Nemesis system could even be used to populate the "Legion of Doom" you and your friends face together by mimicking the players' choice to work together.

    There's a lot of possibilities there, and while writing actual specific narrative content for all the branches would prove highly difficult, I see no reason the individual pieces and actors in each narrative couldn't be used in innovative ways once you start teaming up.


    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    blueturtle13Torval

    image
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 2,692
    Torval said:
    When you guys are saying CRPG are you specifically referring to games that use some sort of axonometric projection as the perspective? To me, CRPG just means computer RPG. I'm old so I remember using it to distinguish from TT (table top) RPGs when we would have discussions because that's where the confusion used to lie.

    Concerning the OP and Fargo's thought, hell yes. We need to explore how to use our technologies to deliver better game experiences. That is what I see him saying, we have the technology to explore possibilities people haven't yet done.

    Blueturtle and I were chatting this morning about Shadow of War and how incredible the Nemesis System is and how it could be leveraged in new ways for all sorts of games.

    So imagine a party based, persistent world RPG sandbox. Imagine you could invite friends to join and they would replace your NPCs (like Guild Wars or Diablo 3). But as you kill enemy leaders, throughout the Sword Coast as in Fargo's example, others would take their place. Imagine if they escaped (because living to fight another day would be a smart option) and then they hunted you.

    There are a lot of things left unexplored. My opinion is most studios and publishers want to do GaaS. These sorts of features might not support or work well in that framework so they're not being pursued. Blueturtle also pointed out the algorithms for such an AI must be incredibly complex so coding them well is expensive.
    This, exactly this.  And I agree that these things don't need to be limited to the cRPG term as it's applied today (The term does hearken back to the time when cRPG was used to distinguish between TT and cRPG, which is why it evokes the Infinity Engine style RPGs when used).

    The largest amount of time is spent trying to explore a way to continually open wallets, when CDPR, Larian, and Obsidian are still living proof you can open our wallets, quite happily so, by delviering quality games and DLCs that hold that same quality and add actual content instead of just for-purchase skins or gambling mechanisms.

    The nemesis system would work well not only in multiplayer party-based cRPG style games, but games like Destiny, because encounters can still be tailored to personal experiences.  In fact, playing through some things individually would only mean that, when you and your buddies came together to party up, you'd have that much more branching mini-narratives that are personal to each individual.  You and your buddies can then assist one another in furthering their own personal "plot" content through things such as a Nemesis system that altered encounters based on prior play performed separately.  Alternatively, you can embark on a party plot line that is consistent for all of the players involved, not unlike the Justice League or Avengers line of comics.  The Nemesis system could even be used to populate the "Legion of Doom" you and your friends face together.

    There's a lot of possibilities there, and while writing actual specific narrative content for all the branches would prove highly difficult, I see no reason the individual pieces and actors in each narrative couldn't be used in innovative ways once you start teaming up.


    That discussion is not just about it. Game companies are pushing this "single player does not sell" from many types of angles from years already because ongoing "live services" and it's whales are more profitable.

    Last year we had EA people saying that and, when people got tired of shoving Witcher 3 at their faces as proof they are wrong, BAM! God of War.

    So, stupid men in suit trying to control what we want and what we don't want is not new and it seems that doesn't matter how much we actually proove them wrong they won't stop spreading those lies.
    blueturtle13MadFrenchie

    “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” ― Patrick RothfussThe Wise Man's Fear


    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,057
    edited June 29
    Nyctelios said:
    Torval said:
    When you guys are saying CRPG are you specifically referring to games that use some sort of axonometric projection as the perspective? To me, CRPG just means computer RPG. I'm old so I remember using it to distinguish from TT (table top) RPGs when we would have discussions because that's where the confusion used to lie.

    Concerning the OP and Fargo's thought, hell yes. We need to explore how to use our technologies to deliver better game experiences. That is what I see him saying, we have the technology to explore possibilities people haven't yet done.

    Blueturtle and I were chatting this morning about Shadow of War and how incredible the Nemesis System is and how it could be leveraged in new ways for all sorts of games.

    So imagine a party based, persistent world RPG sandbox. Imagine you could invite friends to join and they would replace your NPCs (like Guild Wars or Diablo 3). But as you kill enemy leaders, throughout the Sword Coast as in Fargo's example, others would take their place. Imagine if they escaped (because living to fight another day would be a smart option) and then they hunted you.

    There are a lot of things left unexplored. My opinion is most studios and publishers want to do GaaS. These sorts of features might not support or work well in that framework so they're not being pursued. Blueturtle also pointed out the algorithms for such an AI must be incredibly complex so coding them well is expensive.
    This, exactly this.  And I agree that these things don't need to be limited to the cRPG term as it's applied today (The term does hearken back to the time when cRPG was used to distinguish between TT and cRPG, which is why it evokes the Infinity Engine style RPGs when used).

    The largest amount of time is spent trying to explore a way to continually open wallets, when CDPR, Larian, and Obsidian are still living proof you can open our wallets, quite happily so, by delviering quality games and DLCs that hold that same quality and add actual content instead of just for-purchase skins or gambling mechanisms.

    The nemesis system would work well not only in multiplayer party-based cRPG style games, but games like Destiny, because encounters can still be tailored to personal experiences.  In fact, playing through some things individually would only mean that, when you and your buddies came together to party up, you'd have that much more branching mini-narratives that are personal to each individual.  You and your buddies can then assist one another in furthering their own personal "plot" content through things such as a Nemesis system that altered encounters based on prior play performed separately.  Alternatively, you can embark on a party plot line that is consistent for all of the players involved, not unlike the Justice League or Avengers line of comics.  The Nemesis system could even be used to populate the "Legion of Doom" you and your friends face together.

    There's a lot of possibilities there, and while writing actual specific narrative content for all the branches would prove highly difficult, I see no reason the individual pieces and actors in each narrative couldn't be used in innovative ways once you start teaming up.


    That discussion is not just about it. Game companies are pushing this "single player does not sell" from many types of angles from years already because ongoing "live services" and it's whales are more profitable.

    Last year we had EA people saying that and, when people got tired of shoving Witcher 3 at their faces as proof they are wrong, BAM! God of War.

    So, stupid men in suit trying to control what we want and what we don't want is not new and it seems that doesn't matter how much we actually proove them wrong they won't stop spreading those lies.
    Fair enough, though we still see some dev teams opting to forego the GaaS techniques (CDPR seems to enjoy rubbing other groups' noses in it, even).  I generally choose to support those games over games that push hard for the skins or other GaaS items (such as small, one-off item packs and such).

    I don't view games as a service.  I think it's incredibly misguided.  Yes, you can provide support services for your game, but games are a product.  Not an ongoing action taken by the company but a thing the company creates, completes (hopefully, I guess I should say these days), and sells.  The companies that push that evoke skepticism and caution from me.

    I think so long as there are games that receive commercial and critical success ala Witcher franchise, D:OS, and PoE (Pillars), those types of products won't die out.  We may have to accept that there won't be as many options, or that bells and whistles like graphics may take a backseat due to funding restraints, but my opinion has always been that I would rather have one or two quality games I can play regularly than juggling 5-6 games just because the dev keeps pushing new skin packs or grinding for extra lootboxes.  In fairness, those things aren't mutually exclusive (take Blizzard's Overwatch, for example: maps and heroes are free and developed on a regular basis, but they still include lootboxes and skin packs to garner continued funds), but few and far between are the devs that seem to successfully balance the two styles of continuously delivering extra gameplay content and focusing on creating convenience items and shweet cosmetic items in lootboxes to entice microtransactions.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    Torval

    image
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,174
    edited June 29
    Nyctelios said:
    Torval said:
    When you guys are saying CRPG are you specifically referring to games that use some sort of axonometric projection as the perspective? To me, CRPG just means computer RPG. I'm old so I remember using it to distinguish from TT (table top) RPGs when we would have discussions because that's where the confusion used to lie.

    Concerning the OP and Fargo's thought, hell yes. We need to explore how to use our technologies to deliver better game experiences. That is what I see him saying, we have the technology to explore possibilities people haven't yet done.

    Blueturtle and I were chatting this morning about Shadow of War and how incredible the Nemesis System is and how it could be leveraged in new ways for all sorts of games.

    So imagine a party based, persistent world RPG sandbox. Imagine you could invite friends to join and they would replace your NPCs (like Guild Wars or Diablo 3). But as you kill enemy leaders, throughout the Sword Coast as in Fargo's example, others would take their place. Imagine if they escaped (because living to fight another day would be a smart option) and then they hunted you.

    There are a lot of things left unexplored. My opinion is most studios and publishers want to do GaaS. These sorts of features might not support or work well in that framework so they're not being pursued. Blueturtle also pointed out the algorithms for such an AI must be incredibly complex so coding them well is expensive.
    This, exactly this.  And I agree that these things don't need to be limited to the cRPG term as it's applied today (The term does hearken back to the time when cRPG was used to distinguish between TT and cRPG, which is why it evokes the Infinity Engine style RPGs when used).

    The largest amount of time is spent trying to explore a way to continually open wallets, when CDPR, Larian, and Obsidian are still living proof you can open our wallets, quite happily so, by delviering quality games and DLCs that hold that same quality and add actual content instead of just for-purchase skins or gambling mechanisms.

    The nemesis system would work well not only in multiplayer party-based cRPG style games, but games like Destiny, because encounters can still be tailored to personal experiences.  In fact, playing through some things individually would only mean that, when you and your buddies came together to party up, you'd have that much more branching mini-narratives that are personal to each individual.  You and your buddies can then assist one another in furthering their own personal "plot" content through things such as a Nemesis system that altered encounters based on prior play performed separately.  Alternatively, you can embark on a party plot line that is consistent for all of the players involved, not unlike the Justice League or Avengers line of comics.  The Nemesis system could even be used to populate the "Legion of Doom" you and your friends face together.

    There's a lot of possibilities there, and while writing actual specific narrative content for all the branches would prove highly difficult, I see no reason the individual pieces and actors in each narrative couldn't be used in innovative ways once you start teaming up.


    That discussion is not just about it. Game companies are pushing this "single player does not sell" from many types of angles from years already because ongoing "live services" and it's whales are more profitable.

    Last year we had EA people saying that and, when people got tired of shoving Witcher 3 at their faces as proof they are wrong, BAM! God of War.

    So, stupid men in suit trying to control what we want and what we don't want is not new and it seems that doesn't matter how much we actually proove them wrong they won't stop spreading those lies.
    Fair enough, though we still see some dev teams opting to forego the GaaS techniques (CDPR seems to enjoy rubbing other groups' noses in it, even).  I generally choose to support those games over games that push hard for the skins or other GaaS items (such as small, one-off item packs and such).

    I don't view games as a service.  I think it's incredibly misguided.  Yes, you can provide support services for your game, but games are a product.  Not an ongoing action taken by the company but a thing the company creates, completes (hopefully, I guess I should say these days), and sells.  The companies that push that evoke skepticism and caution from me.

    I think so long as there are games that receive commercial and critical success ala Witcher franchise, D:OS, and PoE (Pillars), those types of products won't die out.  We may have to accept that there won't be as many options, or that bells and whistles like graphics may take a backseat due to funding restraints, but my opinion has always been that I would rather have one or two quality games I can play regularly than juggling 5-6 games just because the dev keeps pushing new skin packs or grinding for extra lootboxes.  In fairness, those things aren't mutually exclusive (take Blizzard's Overwatch, for example: maps and heroes are free and developed on a regular basis, but they still include lootboxes and skin packs to garner continued funds), but few and far between are the devs that seem to successfully balance the two styles of continuously delivering extra gameplay content and focusing on creating convenience items and shweet cosmetic items in lootboxes to entice microtransactions.
    I wish I had your optimism, remember Monkey Island, where are adventure games now? As I am sure you know the term "adventure games" is still used but for very different games, rather like the term MMO when you think about it.

    Genres have died or transformed, we could have lost AAA RPG's and got hardly anything in its place apart from action/adventure games. So I welcome CRPG (which to me is a type of isometric graphics as much as anything else, I realise that's a bit fuzzy).

    I did not mention Planescape Tides of Numenera, not played it yet (in my to play list) but based on the Numenera RPG so already a fan. I am not sure we should forego "wordy" RPG's, is encouraging people to read so bad? If you go down this line you end up like GW2 with one sentence quests appearing on your screen as you wander into areas. That's not questing to me.
    Post edited by Scot on

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 17,504
    Being connected with GoG can help keep a positive perspective in my opinion. They cater to a gamer demographic that includes people who cherish classic designs.

    Right now GoG has exclusive rights to sell Myst III + Myst IV. They have also been promoting Monkey Island since it came up. It's been a feature promotion. Escape from Monkey Island has just been added completing the series. A lot of indie games sold on GoG emulate or take inspiration from these designs.

    Also there is Faeland which is inspired by classic JRPG titles. It's an Indie title promoted through the Square-Enix Collective.

    There are all kinds of reasons to look at the future of gaming optimistically. There is a lot of crap to wade through in order to get there. Try not to let that discourage you. It doesn't negate the like-minded community of gamers who share interests. It just makes discovering the gems all the sweeter.

    blueturtle13MadFrenchieNyctelios
    *INCOMING RADIOACTIVE SUPERCELL*

    ...silent protagonist, Interloper, Traveller...
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,057
    edited June 30
    Torval said:
    Being connected with GoG can help keep a positive perspective in my opinion. They cater to a gamer demographic that includes people who cherish classic designs.

    Right now GoG has exclusive rights to sell Myst III + Myst IV. They have also been promoting Monkey Island since it came up. It's been a feature promotion. Escape from Monkey Island has just been added completing the series. A lot of indie games sold on GoG emulate or take inspiration from these designs.

    Also there is Faeland which is inspired by classic JRPG titles. It's an Indie title promoted through the Square-Enix Collective.

    There are all kinds of reasons to look at the future of gaming optimistically. There is a lot of crap to wade through in order to get there. Try not to let that discourage you. It doesn't negate the like-minded community of gamers who share interests. It just makes discovering the gems all the sweeter.

    Agreed, GoG is a great spot to camp out if you feel fed up with Steam's EA titles being plastered all over the platform with paid DLCs released, or if you disdain this trend of relaunching titles that never worked in the first place.

    The great thing about RPGs is they have metric shit tons of content hours.  Just dive into one, take your time to take it all in, because it's not like there's gonna 3 more released every quarter this year.  I still have things I haven't tried in PoE, D:OS2 (waiting for the enhanced edition), and KCD.  If you're looking for something online old school, Fallout Online Reloaded is probably what most of us wished FO76 was going to be.

    EDIT- Also, This War of Mine is a truly unique experience, and has released DLC that adds children to the mix as well as a couple storyline based scenarios.  It's the only game that I've ever actually panicked after being spotted sneaking around what I thought was an abandoned house, murdered a few people with a crowbar only to have the final person drop to their knees and start crying for their friends, making me pause to realize that the NPCs weren't merely evil bandit raiders, but were panicked civilians like myself trying to protect what little food they had, and I just became the Neegan of my own storyline, as badly as I wanted to avoid it.  It's truly brutal and emotional.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    blueturtle13

    image
  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member UncommonPosts: 543
    I disagree with a lot that is said in the interview, and I dislike how the majority of modern crpgs are ignored such as Underrail, AoD, MMX, Knights of the Chalice, Grimoire.  For years there was Spiderweb and the occasional release like Eschalon, and the people that kept at it when these very same people truned their backs on the genre deserve to be mentioned.  I honestly did not believe Fargo was able to make a crpg anymore, and he proved me wrong with WL2 and TToN.  WL2 entered my top 10 favorite games list, with TToN being near the top 10.  WL3 seems to have more console sensibilities than crpg sensibilities, so well see about that.  I also am very much looking forward to BT4.  

    I just wished that people that claimed to like crpgs didn't just stick to the major releases that teeter between what crpgs used to be and what they became after they push for bigger markets and consolization of the rpg genre.  Try some of the lesser known titles.  If you like the real Fall Outs, try Underrail, which is one of the greatest crpgs ever made.  Really try out the actual genre and stop being a tourist around the periphery.  

    If you are playing just the releases from Obsidian, inXile, and Larian its like saying you are into French films and only watched Leon The Professional and Le Femme Nakita.  


    blueturtle13
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,773
    blamo2000 said:
    I disagree with a lot that is said in the interview, and I dislike how the majority of modern crpgs are ignored such as Underrail, AoD, MMX, Knights of the Chalice, Grimoire.  For years there was Spiderweb and the occasional release like Eschalon, and the people that kept at it when these very same people truned their backs on the genre deserve to be mentioned.  I honestly did not believe Fargo was able to make a crpg anymore, and he proved me wrong with WL2 and TToN.  WL2 entered my top 10 favorite games list, with TToN being near the top 10.  WL3 seems to have more console sensibilities than crpg sensibilities, so well see about that.  I also am very much looking forward to BT4.  

    I just wished that people that claimed to like crpgs didn't just stick to the major releases that teeter between what crpgs used to be and what they became after they push for bigger markets and consolization of the rpg genre.  Try some of the lesser known titles.  If you like the real Fall Outs, try Underrail, which is one of the greatest crpgs ever made.  Really try out the actual genre and stop being a tourist around the periphery.  

    If you are playing just the releases from Obsidian, inXile, and Larian its like saying you are into French films and only watched Leon The Professional and Le Femme Nakita.  


    What are you going on about? What makes you think the same players playing Obsidian and Larian titles are not playing Spiderweb's games? You just are taking an assumptive stance to try and push a hipster point of view based on conjecture. There is nothing wrong with liking higher budget indie titles as well as lower budget indie titles. If you are a fan you play what is good.

    oh and it's 'La Femme Nikita' at least get it right if you are going to try and sound like a hipster. ...............smh…………….


    Asm0deusblamo2000

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member UncommonPosts: 543
    blamo2000 said:
    I disagree with a lot that is said in the interview, and I dislike how the majority of modern crpgs are ignored such as Underrail, AoD, MMX, Knights of the Chalice, Grimoire.  For years there was Spiderweb and the occasional release like Eschalon, and the people that kept at it when these very same people truned their backs on the genre deserve to be mentioned.  I honestly did not believe Fargo was able to make a crpg anymore, and he proved me wrong with WL2 and TToN.  WL2 entered my top 10 favorite games list, with TToN being near the top 10.  WL3 seems to have more console sensibilities than crpg sensibilities, so well see about that.  I also am very much looking forward to BT4.  

    I just wished that people that claimed to like crpgs didn't just stick to the major releases that teeter between what crpgs used to be and what they became after they push for bigger markets and consolization of the rpg genre.  Try some of the lesser known titles.  If you like the real Fall Outs, try Underrail, which is one of the greatest crpgs ever made.  Really try out the actual genre and stop being a tourist around the periphery.  

    If you are playing just the releases from Obsidian, inXile, and Larian its like saying you are into French films and only watched Leon The Professional and Le Femme Nakita.  


    What are you going on about? What makes you think the same players playing Obsidian and Larian titles are not playing Spiderweb's games? You just are taking an assumptive stance to try and push a hipster point of view based on conjecture. There is nothing wrong with liking higher budget indie titles as well as lower budget indie titles. If you are a fan you play what is good.

    oh and it's 'La Femme Nikita' at least get it right if you are going to try and sound like a hipster. ...............smh…………….


    I watched the US versions of both films, have zero desire to watch French films, and don;t give a shit how Nakita is spelled.  And I'm in my 40s with three kids and about as far from being hip as someone possibly could be.  It was a great analogy.  

    My exact point was specifically about liking both higher and lower budget indie crpg titles.  I don't know what a hipster point of view is, but trying the lower budget crpgs, and not only paying attention to three specific studios, is conjecture how?  I don't think you know what conjecture means.  I also think you have real, sincere problems in the comprehension department.  Please actually read what I wrote and reply in a sensible way that makes sense.  

    If you were smarter you would have read the article, read the whole thread above, looked up the definition of conjecture, actually read what I wrote and tried to comprehend it, and not posted a nonsensical response.   
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,773
    blamo2000 said:
    blamo2000 said:
    I disagree with a lot that is said in the interview, and I dislike how the majority of modern crpgs are ignored such as Underrail, AoD, MMX, Knights of the Chalice, Grimoire.  For years there was Spiderweb and the occasional release like Eschalon, and the people that kept at it when these very same people truned their backs on the genre deserve to be mentioned.  I honestly did not believe Fargo was able to make a crpg anymore, and he proved me wrong with WL2 and TToN.  WL2 entered my top 10 favorite games list, with TToN being near the top 10.  WL3 seems to have more console sensibilities than crpg sensibilities, so well see about that.  I also am very much looking forward to BT4.  

    I just wished that people that claimed to like crpgs didn't just stick to the major releases that teeter between what crpgs used to be and what they became after they push for bigger markets and consolization of the rpg genre.  Try some of the lesser known titles.  If you like the real Fall Outs, try Underrail, which is one of the greatest crpgs ever made.  Really try out the actual genre and stop being a tourist around the periphery.  

    If you are playing just the releases from Obsidian, inXile, and Larian its like saying you are into French films and only watched Leon The Professional and Le Femme Nakita.  


    What are you going on about? What makes you think the same players playing Obsidian and Larian titles are not playing Spiderweb's games? You just are taking an assumptive stance to try and push a hipster point of view based on conjecture. There is nothing wrong with liking higher budget indie titles as well as lower budget indie titles. If you are a fan you play what is good.

    oh and it's 'La Femme Nikita' at least get it right if you are going to try and sound like a hipster. ...............smh…………….


    I watched the US versions of both films, have zero desire to watch French films, and don;t give a shit how Nakita is spelled.  And I'm in my 40s with three kids and about as far from being hip as someone possibly could be.  It was a great analogy.  

    My exact point was specifically about liking both higher and lower budget indie crpg titles.  I don't know what a hipster point of view is, but trying the lower budget crpgs, and not only paying attention to three specific studios, is conjecture how?  I don't think you know what conjecture means.  I also think you have real, sincere problems in the comprehension department.  Please actually read what I wrote and reply in a sensible way that makes sense.  

    If you were smarter you would have read the article, read the whole thread above, looked up the definition of conjecture, actually read what I wrote and tried to comprehend it, and not posted a nonsensical response.   
    an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information. ;)

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,057
    edited June 30
    blamo2000 said:
    blamo2000 said:
    I disagree with a lot that is said in the interview, and I dislike how the majority of modern crpgs are ignored such as Underrail, AoD, MMX, Knights of the Chalice, Grimoire.  For years there was Spiderweb and the occasional release like Eschalon, and the people that kept at it when these very same people truned their backs on the genre deserve to be mentioned.  I honestly did not believe Fargo was able to make a crpg anymore, and he proved me wrong with WL2 and TToN.  WL2 entered my top 10 favorite games list, with TToN being near the top 10.  WL3 seems to have more console sensibilities than crpg sensibilities, so well see about that.  I also am very much looking forward to BT4.  

    I just wished that people that claimed to like crpgs didn't just stick to the major releases that teeter between what crpgs used to be and what they became after they push for bigger markets and consolization of the rpg genre.  Try some of the lesser known titles.  If you like the real Fall Outs, try Underrail, which is one of the greatest crpgs ever made.  Really try out the actual genre and stop being a tourist around the periphery.  

    If you are playing just the releases from Obsidian, inXile, and Larian its like saying you are into French films and only watched Leon The Professional and Le Femme Nakita.  


    What are you going on about? What makes you think the same players playing Obsidian and Larian titles are not playing Spiderweb's games? You just are taking an assumptive stance to try and push a hipster point of view based on conjecture. There is nothing wrong with liking higher budget indie titles as well as lower budget indie titles. If you are a fan you play what is good.

    oh and it's 'La Femme Nikita' at least get it right if you are going to try and sound like a hipster. ...............smh…………….


    I watched the US versions of both films, have zero desire to watch French films, and don;t give a shit how Nakita is spelled.  And I'm in my 40s with three kids and about as far from being hip as someone possibly could be.  It was a great analogy.  

    My exact point was specifically about liking both higher and lower budget indie crpg titles.  I don't know what a hipster point of view is, but trying the lower budget crpgs, and not only paying attention to three specific studios, is conjecture how?  I don't think you know what conjecture means.  I also think you have real, sincere problems in the comprehension department.  Please actually read what I wrote and reply in a sensible way that makes sense.  

    If you were smarter you would have read the article, read the whole thread above, looked up the definition of conjecture, actually read what I wrote and tried to comprehend it, and not posted a nonsensical response.   
    Who said you have to limit yourself to three studios?  You're obviously referring to my posts for part of the basis of your own.  My post wasn't even strictly about cRPGs, much less indie titles of any size.  KCD is not a cRPG; my post was concerned with dev teams that deliver quality content instead of opting for low-hanging fruit of microtransactions.  Indie titles don't own that; CDPR is proof enough, but so is Warhorse.

    That's why turtle asked what you were going on about.  No one here is ignoring indie titles of any size; I even included This War of Mine by 11bit in an edit in my post because of how awesome it is, which is by no means a large indie studio.  So I'm not sure where you're getting that I (or anyone in this thread) was specifically excluding small indie studios that develop cRPGs.  The conversation had evolved well beyond just discussing cRPGs specifically.  Scot even mentioned Monkey Island.

    The article itself is using those bigger names because, quite frankly, if they had quoted Dejan Radisic, most folks would've had to go look him up to see what title he had created.  They're just trying to be relatable to the widest audience possible, because that's good business for writers.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    blueturtle13TorvalNyctelios

    image
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,773
    blamo2000 said:
    blamo2000 said:
    I disagree with a lot that is said in the interview, and I dislike how the majority of modern crpgs are ignored such as Underrail, AoD, MMX, Knights of the Chalice, Grimoire.  For years there was Spiderweb and the occasional release like Eschalon, and the people that kept at it when these very same people truned their backs on the genre deserve to be mentioned.  I honestly did not believe Fargo was able to make a crpg anymore, and he proved me wrong with WL2 and TToN.  WL2 entered my top 10 favorite games list, with TToN being near the top 10.  WL3 seems to have more console sensibilities than crpg sensibilities, so well see about that.  I also am very much looking forward to BT4.  

    I just wished that people that claimed to like crpgs didn't just stick to the major releases that teeter between what crpgs used to be and what they became after they push for bigger markets and consolization of the rpg genre.  Try some of the lesser known titles.  If you like the real Fall Outs, try Underrail, which is one of the greatest crpgs ever made.  Really try out the actual genre and stop being a tourist around the periphery.  

    If you are playing just the releases from Obsidian, inXile, and Larian its like saying you are into French films and only watched Leon The Professional and Le Femme Nakita.  


    What are you going on about? What makes you think the same players playing Obsidian and Larian titles are not playing Spiderweb's games? You just are taking an assumptive stance to try and push a hipster point of view based on conjecture. There is nothing wrong with liking higher budget indie titles as well as lower budget indie titles. If you are a fan you play what is good.

    oh and it's 'La Femme Nikita' at least get it right if you are going to try and sound like a hipster. ...............smh…………….


    I watched the US versions of both films, have zero desire to watch French films, and don;t give a shit how Nakita is spelled.  And I'm in my 40s with three kids and about as far from being hip as someone possibly could be.  It was a great analogy.  

    My exact point was specifically about liking both higher and lower budget indie crpg titles.  I don't know what a hipster point of view is, but trying the lower budget crpgs, and not only paying attention to three specific studios, is conjecture how?  I don't think you know what conjecture means.  I also think you have real, sincere problems in the comprehension department.  Please actually read what I wrote and reply in a sensible way that makes sense.  

    If you were smarter you would have read the article, read the whole thread above, looked up the definition of conjecture, actually read what I wrote and tried to comprehend it, and not posted a nonsensical response.   













    "I just wished that people that claimed to like crpgs didn't just stick to the major releases that teeter between what crpgs used to be and what they became after they push for bigger markets and consolization of the rpg genre.  Try some of the lesser known titles."


    That right there is a silly thing to say. You are not able to base any of that on actual facts. You made it up. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,174
    Guys we all love RPG games whether we are "hipsters" or "married with 2.2 kids", I don't think there is that much difference between us to be honest. ;)

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • blamo2000blamo2000 Member UncommonPosts: 543

    an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information. ;)
    So, an article about crpgs, and about their resurgence, focuses once again on three studios and their games exclusively.  In a thread where other crpgs are not mentioned.  What information is missing for me to be such a "hipster" idiot that mentions people limiting themselves to the major crpg releases are missing out on the majority of the genre?  Seriously, please answer.  

    Also, I am not a huge fan of Spidwerweb's games, but for almost a decade it was the only developer making crpgs, other than the occasional release like Devil Whisky, Eschalon, etc.  Iron Tower deserves a mention, since they were the first high profile indie, community funded crpg without them you wouldn't have had Dead State and some others jump on ship.  Fargo seems to get all credit for starting the crpg "resurgence" from all these kinds of articles.  And again, WL2 is solidly in my top 10 games list, with TToN near the top 10, so I have nothing against Fargo.  I do have an issue with all these articles presenting in inaccurate and incorrect, lazy narrative and always ignoring everyone but these three developers.  Maybe its because all three of these devs also release their games on consoles too?  I don't know.  


    Who said you have to limit yourself to three studios?  You're obviously referring to my posts for part of the basis of your own.  My post wasn't even strictly about cRPGs, much less indie titles of any size.  KCD is not a cRPG; my post was concerned with dev teams that deliver quality content instead of opting for low-hanging fruit of microtransactions.  Indie titles don't own that; CDPR is proof enough, but so is Warhorse.

    That's why turtle asked what you were going on about.  No one here is ignoring indie titles of any size; I even included This War of Mine by 11bit in an edit in my post because of how awesome it is, which is by no means a large indie studio.  So I'm not sure where you're getting that I (or anyone in this thread) was specifically excluding small indie studios that develop cRPGs.  The conversation had evolved well beyond just discussing cRPGs specifically.  Scot even mentioned Monkey Island.

    The article itself is using those bigger names because, quite frankly, if they had quoted Dejan Radisic, most folks would've had to go look him up to see what title he had created.  They're just trying to be relatable to the widest audience possible, because that's good business for writers.
    My point is specifically about this articles, articles like this, and all the talk being about three specific studios.  I wasn't not responding to what you stated.  What people didn't state was part of my statement.  

    I have no idea who Dejan Radisic is.  I really don't see what people are getting so upset about from what I said.  If people liked PoEs and DOSs and WL2 and TToN, and they have a computer, there are tons more games they can try in the same genre.  What is so bad, "hipster", or controversial about that.  

    As I stated before, I don't know anything about French movies.  But I know that a lot of people love them and there are more than two.  If there were tons of articles about French movies, and they only mentioned Leon The Professional and Le Femme Nakita, two films that also were remade into US versions, and the discussion on the articles transformed to talk about Run Lola Run, and Pan's Labyrinth - would it be crazy for a someone to mention, "Hey, there are tons of French films besides those two mentioned in this article about French films, the same two that are always mentioned pretty much exclusively.  If you like those two, you should check out other, lesser known French films that don't always get the spotlight."

    I honestly am having a hard time figuring out where people are coming from on this, or what specifically I got wrong or incorrect.  

    If my tone came off wrong to people I can accept that, but the content was spot on and valid, and my analogy was fantastic.  I don't think it warranted me being attacked by people that failed to actually read what I wrote or comprehend what I was actually saying.  
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,416
    I'm with @Torval in that CRPG to me is just a generic term once used to differentiate all computer RPGs but I understand how it's used now to refer to isometric RPGs that feature a party of characters, are turn based or at least have some sort of pause option that you can use to issue orders.

    I'm very happy to see how some of the bigger titles have broken through into the gaming mainstream in the past few years. This is a great development that should spur on more development and more innovation not just from the ones who managed to break on through but also from other less known developers who may bring even more fresh ideas into the genre.

    I do have one reservation although it's just my own personal preference. Once upon a time I couldn't get enough complexity and detail in the games I liked whether in RPGs or the strategy 4X games I've also played for a long time. These days though I've sort of reached a point where too much complexity and too many options can be a turn off.

    Take D:OS 2 for example. As much as I love the game overall, I found myself enjoying the early game much more than the mid or end-game and I realized the reason I was having more fun in the early game was precisely because my party's ability toolkit was somewhat limited to the extent that I found it easily manageable. Later on as more and more options, abilities and synergies open up, managing that started to feel more like a chore than fun.

    It's probably just me but I want a happy medium balance between simplicity and complexity. Extreme complexity just isn't as much fun for me as it once was.
    Torval
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,057
    edited July 1
    @blamo2000 I took that from your telling turtle to read through the thread.  If you weren't responding to me including examples like Pillars, then I apologize for taking that away from your post.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    blamo2000

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,057
    edited July 1
    Iselin said:
    I'm with @Torval in that CRPG to me is just a generic term once used to differentiate all computer RPGs but I understand how it's used now to refer to isometric RPGs that feature a party of characters, are turn based or at least have some sort of pause option that you can use to issue orders.

    I'm very happy to see how some of the bigger titles have broken through into the gaming mainstream in the past few years. This is a great development that should spur on more development and more innovation not just from the ones who managed to break on through but also from other less known developers who may bring even more fresh ideas into the genre.

    I do have one reservation although it's just my own personal preference. Once upon a time I couldn't get enough complexity and detail in the games I liked whether in RPGs or the strategy 4X games I've also played for a long time. These days though I've sort of reached a point where too much complexity and too many options can be a turn off.

    Take D:OS 2 for example. As much as I love the game overall, I found myself enjoying the early game much more than the mid or end-game and I realized the reason I was having more fun in the early game was precisely because my party's ability toolkit was somewhat limited to the extent that I found it easily manageable. Later on as more and more options, abilities and synergies open up, managing that started to feel more like a chore than fun.

    It's probably just me but I want a happy medium balance between simplicity and complexity. Extreme complexity just isn't as much fun for me as it once was.
    I mentioned elsewhere how it's very easy to fill up 2-3 action bars in D:OS2 if you carry around bombs or scrolls mid-late game.  It does become quite cumbersome to flip through all those action bars to find the right one.  I wish they had made some kind of wheel that broke things down from general to specific (i.e. wheel>bombs>specific bomb, wheel>scrolls>specific scroll).  I didn't find a way to better organize them than manually sorting them on my action bar.  It could've used a little more work on that aspect because of the sheer amount of skills and active items you can amass).
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
Sign In or Register to comment.