Hero Engine employee confirms Elder scrolls Online does indeed run on the Hero Engine.

OG_Zorvan

It was not "just used for prototyping" as ZOS claimed.

Over at The Repopulation forums on Steam, a player got butthurt at someone saying ESO uses Hero Engine and trotted out the old "just prototyped" argument. 

https://steamcommunity.com/app/322300/discussions/0/2650805184970499671/?ctp=2

Post 23.

immodium

Makes you think who was using it over at Bioware to make SWTOR such a mess.

OG_Zorvan

immodium said:

Makes you think who was using it over at Bioware to make SWTOR such a mess.

She actually addresses SWtOR in that same post. I lost the link from a few years ago where a Hero Engine owner said it was an EA honcho who chose an alpha build of the Hero Engine because "we'll just build the parts that aren't there ourselves".

ESO had the benefit of a fully working Hero Engine. SWtOR couldn't even use new engine builds as HE released them because they had butchered so much of the code to "make it work". 

Torval

I think @Iselin posted a link once where ZoS explained how they've implemented Hero.

I get the impression though that some random Hero employee saying they use Hero, implying all the game running on Hero are using the exact same engine, is just as deceitful as saying they don't use it all. The difference between games using Hero seems to tell the story that the base engine doesn't deliver out of the box and needs to be heavily modified. By the time a game is launched the engine versions running specific games aren't even the same. That is they're heavily modified and only share core components. I'd like that clarified because Hero and the companies using the engine dodge that explanation. It makes me wonder why.

alkarionlog

i'm lost its that supose to say the game is bad because its use hero engine, or hero engine have nothing to do with how bad the game is?

Panther2103

I don't understand what the point of still trying to figure this out is though? You either like the game or you don't, who cares what engine it is on?

Torval

Panther2103 said:

I don't understand what the point of still trying to figure this out is though? You either like the game or you don't, who cares what engine it is on?

Most people probably don't or shouldn't care. I test sometimes and I like to know details about things.

Also, understanding this can help me make choices about games. Take Unity. It can be used to make great games. I don't think it can be used to make great MMOs. I don't think it does MMORPGs well at all. There are ways it accomplishes things in the game that make it poorly suited to carry that out in a massively multiplayer environment.

Sovrath

Panther2103 said:

I don't understand what the point of still trying to figure this out is though? You either like the game or you don't, who cares what engine it is on?

I think it's more about some sort of sense of "justice" and holding game developers accountable for what they say.

Also, because people say that Hero Engine is crap (I would have no idea I'm not a developer) it points to some supposed issue with Elder Scrolls Online.

But I agree with you.

Kyleran

They do make a good observation,  Zenimax probably wouldn't keep Hero Engine on their launch page if there wasn't some elements of it in their coding.

Iselin

Kyleran said:

They do make a good observation,  Zenimax probably wouldn't keep Hero Engine on their launch page if there wasn't some elements of it in their coding.

I don't think it's on the splash screen any longer.

I recently after Summerset, had to delete my usersettings file and let the game create a new one because I was having some performance issues and that's always my goto first troubleshooting step (it did the trick, BTW.) When you do that you have to go through all the EULA shit and you also do get the full splash screen.

I saw Havok clearly there but did not see Hero.

You can see for yourself by changing a line in that usersettings.txt file, SET HasPlayedPregameVideo "1" from 1 to 0 if you want to see it.

I know it was there a few years ago but it no longer does. I have no idea what that change means to be honest.

As to the reason why some people obsessed over this it was just because SWTOR performance was very poor in a lot of ways to the point that they could never get PVP in Ilium, which was supposed to be the large PVP battles world, to work properly and eventually ditched it. ESO obviously does not have the same problems with having 600 players in Cyrodiil - there are some performance issues there as you would expect in the only game zone that does not use the phasing they use in the rest of the world, but nothing like the shit show that was Ilium.

The "we just used HERO to prototype" thing was not just fans saying it by the way, that was Matt Firor saying it:

“Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of Hero Engine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development,”

https://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Doesn-t-Use-the-Hero-Engine-Developer-Says-272344.shtml

SlyLoK

Iselin said:

Kyleran said:

They do make a good observation,  Zenimax probably wouldn't keep Hero Engine on their launch page if there wasn't some elements of it in their coding.

I don't think it's on the splash screen any longer.

I recently after Summerset, had to delete my usersettings file and let the game create a new one because I was having some performance issues and that's always my goto first troubleshooting step (it did the trick, BTW.) When you do that you have to go through all the EULA shit and you also do get the full splash screen.

I saw Havok clearly there but did not see Hero.

You can see for yourself by changing a line in that usersettings.txt file, SET HasPlayedPregameVideo "1" from 1 to 0 if you want to see it.

I know it was there a few years ago but it no longer does. I have no idea what that change means to be honest.

As to the reason why some people obsessed over this it was just because SWTOR performance was very poor in a lot of ways to the point that they could never get PVP in Ilium, which was supposed to be the large PVP battles world, to work properly and eventually ditched it. ESO obviously does not have the same problems with having 600 players in Cyrodiil - there are some performance issues there as you would expect in the only game zone that does not use the phasing they use in the rest of the world, but nothing like the shit show that was Ilium.

The "we just used HERO to prototype" thing was not just fans saying it by the way, that was Matt Firor saying it:

“Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of Hero Engine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development,”

https://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Doesn-t-Use-the-Hero-Engine-Developer-Says-272344.shtml

I was going to say that I had not seen that splash screen in the past couple installs. I remember seeing it during beta and release installs though.

Doesn't matter though. ESO is the best MMORPG going at the moment imo.

Sephiroso

SlyLoK said:

Iselin said:

Kyleran said:

They do make a good observation,  Zenimax probably wouldn't keep Hero Engine on their launch page if there wasn't some elements of it in their coding.

I don't think it's on the splash screen any longer.

I recently after Summerset, had to delete my usersettings file and let the game create a new one because I was having some performance issues and that's always my goto first troubleshooting step (it did the trick, BTW.) When you do that you have to go through all the EULA shit and you also do get the full splash screen.

I saw Havok clearly there but did not see Hero.

You can see for yourself by changing a line in that usersettings.txt file, SET HasPlayedPregameVideo "1" from 1 to 0 if you want to see it.

I know it was there a few years ago but it no longer does. I have no idea what that change means to be honest.

As to the reason why some people obsessed over this it was just because SWTOR performance was very poor in a lot of ways to the point that they could never get PVP in Ilium, which was supposed to be the large PVP battles world, to work properly and eventually ditched it. ESO obviously does not have the same problems with having 600 players in Cyrodiil - there are some performance issues there as you would expect in the only game zone that does not use the phasing they use in the rest of the world, but nothing like the shit show that was Ilium.

The "we just used HERO to prototype" thing was not just fans saying it by the way, that was Matt Firor saying it:

“Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of Hero Engine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development,”

https://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Doesn-t-Use-the-Hero-Engine-Developer-Says-272344.shtml

I was going to say that I had not seen that splash screen in the past couple installs. I remember seeing it during beta and release installs though.

Doesn't matter though. ESO is the best MMORPG going at the moment imo.

lol

Torval

Iselin said:

Kyleran said:

They do make a good observation,  Zenimax probably wouldn't keep Hero Engine on their launch page if there wasn't some elements of it in their coding.

I don't think it's on the splash screen any longer.

I recently after Summerset, had to delete my usersettings file and let the game create a new one because I was having some performance issues and that's always my goto first troubleshooting step (it did the trick, BTW.) When you do that you have to go through all the EULA shit and you also do get the full splash screen.

I saw Havok clearly there but did not see Hero.

You can see for yourself by changing a line in that usersettings.txt file, SET HasPlayedPregameVideo "1" from 1 to 0 if you want to see it.

I know it was there a few years ago but it no longer does. I have no idea what that change means to be honest.

As to the reason why some people obsessed over this it was just because SWTOR performance was very poor in a lot of ways to the point that they could never get PVP in Ilium, which was supposed to be the large PVP battles world, to work properly and eventually ditched it. ESO obviously does not have the same problems with having 600 players in Cyrodiil - there are some performance issues there as you would expect in the only game zone that does not use the phasing they use in the rest of the world, but nothing like the shit show that was Ilium.

The "we just used HERO to prototype" thing was not just fans saying it by the way, that was Matt Firor saying it:

“Our plan is for ESO to be a world class MMO, with the most advanced social features found in any MMO to date – so while we were prototyping the game on HeroEngine, we were simultaneously developing our own client, server, and messaging layer that were specifically designed with ESO in mind. Think of Hero Engine as a whiteboard for us – a great tool to get some ideas in the game and start looking at them while the production engine was in development,”

https://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Doesn-t-Use-the-Hero-Engine-Developer-Says-272344.shtml

I didn't find Hero Engine mentioned on their website at all no matter where I looked (except forums). Hero engine still lists ESO as one of its games though. Like I said some part might still live in the game, or in their test/prototype environment for that matter, but for that Hero employee to imply they're running on Hero is straight up deceitful.

Loke666

Panther2103 said:

I don't understand what the point of still trying to figure this out is though? You either like the game or you don't, who cares what engine it is on?

It matters if you are a geek for such things, just like it matters for some where they recorded a movie. I can't say I care for either of those 2 things but there other things I am interested in that many would fine boring.

But using a good engine does not means your game will be automatically good or that using a bad engine wont mean it will suck (even if you can get annoying technical issues there).

Barrikor

Torval said:

I'd like that clarified because Hero and the companies using the engine dodge that explanation. It makes me wonder why.

Put yourself into their shoes. No one gains anything by bashing the engine they're using.

Limnic

Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.

Iselin

Limnic said:

Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.

Now all we need is someone to track down if it was removed from the Hero web site and the ESO splash screen at around the same time. There's a conspiracy here I tell ya!

Torval

Limnic said:

Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.

It doesn't list all the games on that list. If you click the link to "Hero Games" it will bring you the "complete list" and mentions nothing about ESO being "legacy". In fact it clearly implies ESO is one of their games and we know that list is fairly current and not some "legacy page". Faxion Online is listed as a game, but was closed in 2011 and is listed as such on the page, but not on the games list.

The Hero employee misspoke and is out of line. They asserted wrong information and were either lying outright or were unacceptably negligent with the truth. They have a responsibility as a representative of the company to get it right. 

The site won't let me upload a SS, but you can visit the page and see for yourself.
http://www.heroengine.com/he-games

Limnic

Unlike even Faxion Online though, they no longer have a "view game" page for ESO on that page. It does highlight that if you click to the ESO website you can find no mention of Hero Engine or Idea Fabrik either though, with the ESO website being the only linked component at this point.

I called it legacy as it's notably out of date by also listing HiHola with a dead link, with that title being defunct for almost five years and Hero's Journey no longer exists, nothing new out of Farmer 3D in two years.

Most the titles are out of date and sync really, like Heroes and Villains is no longer a thing, Blight is developing on the UE4 engine now, Dark Relic hasn't updated in two years, Anvil of Honor is no longer a thing, Yugoslav Front hasn't updated in three years, Odyssey of Ydris is also defunct with a link looping back to Hero Engine's main page.

Only title on the extended showcase that's still in development on the Hero Engine platform is Primal Kingdoms.

That then relates 5-6 of the 16 shown to be active still and on Hero Engine, with again ESO having no mention anywhere itself of presently relying on the engine or referencing the parent company.

That page is massively out of date.

Kyleran

Torval said:

Limnic said:

Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.

It doesn't list all the games on that list. If you click the link to "Hero Games" it will bring you the "complete list" and mentions nothing about ESO being "legacy". In fact it clearly implies ESO is one of their games and we know that list is fairly current and not some "legacy page". Faxion Online is listed as a game, but was closed in 2011 and is listed as such on the page, but not on the games list.

The Hero employee misspoke and is out of line. They asserted wrong information and were either lying outright or were unacceptably negligent with the truth. They have a responsibility as a representative of the company to get it right. 

The site won't let me upload a SS, but you can visit the page and see for yourself.
http://www.heroengine.com/he-games

Just so you know, Developers are rarely told the whole story, such info is usually restricted to the priviledged.  (Senior Mgmt)

Helps make surprising Devs with layoffs much easier

QuarterStack

And.....?

Perhaps they're using parts of it in their game. Perhaps they still use it for prototyping.
What's the difference either way? Who cares?

Regardless of what tech it's on, it looks, runs and plays just fine. I'm on a pretty old PC at this point, am running at max settings and it's entirely, smoothly playable.

RemyVorender

One only has to glance at it to tell it's the Hero Engine. I mean, look at it.

Torval

Kyleran said:

Torval said:

Limnic said:

Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.

It doesn't list all the games on that list. If you click the link to "Hero Games" it will bring you the "complete list" and mentions nothing about ESO being "legacy". In fact it clearly implies ESO is one of their games and we know that list is fairly current and not some "legacy page". Faxion Online is listed as a game, but was closed in 2011 and is listed as such on the page, but not on the games list.

The Hero employee misspoke and is out of line. They asserted wrong information and were either lying outright or were unacceptably negligent with the truth. They have a responsibility as a representative of the company to get it right. 

The site won't let me upload a SS, but you can visit the page and see for yourself.
http://www.heroengine.com/he-games

Just so you know, Developers are rarely told the whole story, such info is usually restricted to the priviledged.  (Senior Mgmt)

Helps make surprising Devs with layoffs much easier

Yep, which is probably why they should be careful about the assertions they make and what they imply.

As much as people get their panties in a collective knot over "MMO" you'd think they'd have more interest in what engines drive their games and what they're capable of. My experience with Project Gorgon and Unity has taught me to view that engine choice skeptically for an MMO. There are several ways that engine limits the "MMO" aspect of the game and also heavily influences game design choices.

The white knights and hate boners are always going to take extreme positions of their choices. Gamers love to play Highlander with their platforms and choices. 

A better position, in my opinion, is to be informed about technology and platform choices and try to make smarter decisions based on that information. So I'll be wary of any Unity driven MMOs from now on and I'd want to know if a game I'm interested in uses Unity. Depending on the game style it may affect my choice.

MMOs are complicated with a lot of moving pieces so singly praising or blaming an engine for a game overlooks a lot of other relevant detail. If people want to play "brand" games fine, I don't, but I do want clear information.

Jean-Luc_Picard

And the problem is... ?

The game runs of course butter smooth on my badass home computer, but also well enough without having to sacrifice graphic quality on my work computer (980ti vs 1050ti).

I don't really understand the point of the thread, since the engine seems to be pretty good an efficient on a wide range of computers.

Limnic

Doesn't Crowfall, Albion Online, VRChat, and Rec Room all run on Unity?

TEKK3N

I don't see what the issue is here?
Hero is a bad engine? Maybe.
Anyhow, Zenimax fixed it.

Does it look like ESO run on Hero?
No.
Job done.