I don't understand what the point of still trying to figure this out is though? You either like the game or you don't, who cares what engine it is on?
The only point was although Hero Engine is not "great" per se, I think Hero Engine gets more shit than it deserves, and instead of denying they use it in order to appease some cranky neckbeards, ZOS should have been proud enough to say "Look what we did with it.".
Also, Bethesda ( and thus ZOS by extension ) have a nasty habit of proclaiming other peoples stuff as their own ( i.e. remember when they said they made the "Creation Engine", only for it to be discovered rather easily that it was just a highly modified Gamebryo ).
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.
It doesn't list all the games on that list. If you click the link to "Hero Games" it will bring you the "complete list" and mentions nothing about ESO being "legacy". In fact it clearly implies ESO is one of their games and we know that list is fairly current and not some "legacy page". Faxion Online is listed as a game, but was closed in 2011 and is listed as such on the page, but not on the games list.
The Hero employee misspoke and is out of line. They asserted wrong information and were either lying outright or were unacceptably negligent with the truth. They have a responsibility as a representative of the company to get it right.
So, the HE employee is an automatic liar, but stammering Matt Firor who just recently had to proclaim adding redshell.dll to ESO was a "mistake" ( in fact copying the excuse Funcom used a few weeks earlier when they got caught with it in Exiles ), is automatically believable?
I'm fairly sure that employee knows where the HE engine is being used and would not risk their job stating falsehoods. But I'm sure if the employee is lying, ZOS will make HE issue a retraction.
I'll wait.
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
damn... swtor and eso use the same engine? swtor looks like absolute shit LOL. clothes and everything... but i kinda think swtor has better combat animations
Not quite.
SWTOR uses a very early and incomplete fork of the Hero Engine. One of the alpha versions that they then built out the rest of the way themselves.
ESO supposedly uses it's own in-house engine, and Hero Engine was used to prototype the game.
While rendering is tied to engine, the model visuals, textural detail, and animations are beholden to the artists for each game. That aspect falls to what the development studio itself is capable of.
Rocks and mountains have similar shapes in ESO and SWTOR, but that's the only similarity I've noticed, besides the horrible performance in large-scale pvp (Cyrodiil and Ilum).
I thought this was a fricken necro....I knew this game was running on Hero Engine since before it launched. SWTOR does and The Repopulation did at one time, but they couldn't get it work for what they needed.
Rocks and mountains have similar shapes in ESO and SWTOR, but that's the only similarity I've noticed, besides the horrible performance in large-scale pvp (Cyrodiil and Ilum).
Another similarity is you can watch the grass/flowers grow in front of you as you run in both ESO and SWtOR.
I thought this was a fricken necro....I knew this game was running on Hero Engine since before it launched. SWTOR does and The Repopulation did at one time, but they couldn't get it work for what they needed.
Repop still uses HE and will be using HE, as Repop is owned by Idea Fabrik, HE owners.
Also, as an added bit, I should add that the HE employee referenced in my OP is the Chief Operating Officer of Idea Fabrik.
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.
It doesn't list all the games on that list. If you click the link to "Hero Games" it will bring you the "complete list" and mentions nothing about ESO being "legacy". In fact it clearly implies ESO is one of their games and we know that list is fairly current and not some "legacy page". Faxion Online is listed as a game, but was closed in 2011 and is listed as such on the page, but not on the games list.
The Hero employee misspoke and is out of line. They asserted wrong information and were either lying outright or were unacceptably negligent with the truth. They have a responsibility as a representative of the company to get it right.
So, the HE employee is an automatic liar, but stammering Matt Firor who just recently had to proclaim adding redshell.dll to ESO was a "mistake" ( in fact copying the excuse Funcom used a few weeks earlier when they got caught with it in Exiles ), is automatically believable?
I'm fairly sure that employee knows where the HE engine is being used and would not risk their job stating falsehoods. But I'm sure if the employee is lying, ZOS will make HE issue a retraction.
I'll wait.
An employee of what exactly? The Repopulation which is now owned by Hero Engine? I'm not about to start defending Matt Firor's truthfulness but it seems to me Hero and Repop employees have a lot more to gain by saying that ESO, a highly successful MMO, uses it than Matt Firor has by denying it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
"... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..." __ Wizardry, 2020
The hate bandwagon of Hero Engine is very similar to the hate bandwagon of EA
Both social media internet fads and actually the vast majority of gamers (that don't go onto forums/reddit etc) don't actually care.
What most gamers care about...
Is the game fun to play?
A: Yes and it doesn't matter what game the engine is on or who the publisher is B: No, the game is bad and any developer or/and publisher can release a bad game
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.
It doesn't list all the games on that list. If you click the link to "Hero Games" it will bring you the "complete list" and mentions nothing about ESO being "legacy". In fact it clearly implies ESO is one of their games and we know that list is fairly current and not some "legacy page". Faxion Online is listed as a game, but was closed in 2011 and is listed as such on the page, but not on the games list.
The Hero employee misspoke and is out of line. They asserted wrong information and were either lying outright or were unacceptably negligent with the truth. They have a responsibility as a representative of the company to get it right.
So, the HE employee is an automatic liar, but stammering Matt Firor who just recently had to proclaim adding redshell.dll to ESO was a "mistake" ( in fact copying the excuse Funcom used a few weeks earlier when they got caught with it in Exiles ), is automatically believable?
I'm fairly sure that employee knows where the HE engine is being used and would not risk their job stating falsehoods. But I'm sure if the employee is lying, ZOS will make HE issue a retraction.
I'll wait.
An employee of what exactly? The Repopulation which is now owned by Hero Engine? I'm not about to start defending Matt Firor's truthfulness but it seems to me Hero and Repop employees have a lot more to gain by saying that ESO, a highly successful MMO, uses it than Matt Firor has by denying it.
The Chief Operating Officer of Idea Fabrik. and the only thing IF has to gain by claiming ESO is running on HE is showing their product works when used by competent developers after SWtOR basically ruined their engines reputation. They could easily and successfully be sued if they were lying. So yeah, until I see Matt "deer in headlights on E3 stage" Firor refute IF's claims, I trust IF more.
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
I thought everyone knew ESO ran on a heavily modified version of Hero Engine. That is the info available out there. The game runs very well so they did a really good job with that crappy engine.
The hate bandwagon of Hero Engine is very similar to the hate bandwagon of EA
Both social media internet fads and actually the vast majority of gamers (that don't go onto forums/reddit etc) don't actually care.
What most gamers care about...
Is the game fun to play?
A: Yes and it doesn't matter what game the engine is on or who the publisher is B: No, the game is bad and any developer or/and publisher can release a bad game
I agree with this pretty much. Every engine used in development is altered to fit the studio who is using it and the game they are creating.
On a side note I was bummed out when Hero's Journey was cancelled which I think was the MMORPG they created using their engine. (Hence the name Hero)
When ESO was in alpha/beta, there was a huge shitstorm from neckbeards who seen HeroEngine in connection to ESO after SWtOR had turned the HE engine rep to shit. ZOS went the "we only prototyped with it, honest!!" route to shut down the backlash. Since then, every time someone brings up ESo using HE, especially on the ESO forums, you get a bunch of ZOStards coming in to "correct" the offending person.
I don't really care about the engine so much as I'm tired of seeing devs lie about every damn thing nowdays and if a lie can blow up in a devs face, I'm all for it. I'll just as easily turn on IF if ZOS proves they're lying.
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
When ESO was in alpha/beta, there was a huge shitstorm from neckbeards who seen HeroEngine in connection to ESO after SWtOR had turned the HE engine rep to shit. ZOS went the "we only prototyped with it, honest!!" route to shut down the backlash. Since then, every time someone brings up ESo using HE, especially on the ESO forums, you get a bunch of ZOStards coming in to "correct" the offending person.
I don't really care about the engine so much as I'm tired of seeing devs lie about every damn thing nowdays and if a lie can blow up in a devs face, I'm all for it. I'll just as easily turn on IF if ZOS proves they're lying.
cool, thx. I'd never heard of this controversy before. I think many don't understand that just because somebody implements something poorly, doesn't necessarily mean that it's a poor product.
Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.
Why take such an overly aggressive stance? The actual legal information mentioning what the game licenses for use no longer lists Idea Fabrik or Hero Engine, nothing on ESO 's pages itself makes a reference to it any more. That's the actual current state of affairs.
One way you might check if Hero Engine may have been adapted into the current one they use is to go into the game's data files to look for references to the engine, if you are so inclined. That's what users did to find which version of Gamebryo Bethesda adapted into the Creation Engine.
Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.
It doesn't list all the games on that list. If you click the link to "Hero Games" it will bring you the "complete list" and mentions nothing about ESO being "legacy". In fact it clearly implies ESO is one of their games and we know that list is fairly current and not some "legacy page". Faxion Online is listed as a game, but was closed in 2011 and is listed as such on the page, but not on the games list.
The Hero employee misspoke and is out of line. They asserted wrong information and were either lying outright or were unacceptably negligent with the truth. They have a responsibility as a representative of the company to get it right.
So, the HE employee is an automatic liar, but stammering Matt Firor who just recently had to proclaim adding redshell.dll to ESO was a "mistake" ( in fact copying the excuse Funcom used a few weeks earlier when they got caught with it in Exiles ), is automatically believable?
I'm fairly sure that employee knows where the HE engine is being used and would not risk their job stating falsehoods. But I'm sure if the employee is lying, ZOS will make HE issue a retraction.
I'll wait.
An employee of what exactly? The Repopulation which is now owned by Hero Engine? I'm not about to start defending Matt Firor's truthfulness but it seems to me Hero and Repop employees have a lot more to gain by saying that ESO, a highly successful MMO, uses it than Matt Firor has by denying it.
The Chief Operating Officer of Idea Fabrik. and the only thing IF has to gain by claiming ESO is running on HE is showing their product works when used by competent developers after SWtOR basically ruined their engines reputation. They could easily and successfully be sued if they were lying. So yeah, until I see Matt "deer in headlights on E3 stage" Firor refute IF's claims, I trust IF more.
Sounds to me that if ESO does use Hero and does not make mention of it nor is it any longer on the splash screens - which is the case - or if ZOS built their own engine using HERO and does not credit them, IF would have grounds to sue for breach of license or intellectual theft as Crytech is currently doing with RSI. So why aren't they?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
"... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..." __ Wizardry, 2020
Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.
It doesn't list all the games on that list. If you click the link to "Hero Games" it will bring you the "complete list" and mentions nothing about ESO being "legacy". In fact it clearly implies ESO is one of their games and we know that list is fairly current and not some "legacy page". Faxion Online is listed as a game, but was closed in 2011 and is listed as such on the page, but not on the games list.
The Hero employee misspoke and is out of line. They asserted wrong information and were either lying outright or were unacceptably negligent with the truth. They have a responsibility as a representative of the company to get it right.
So, the HE employee is an automatic liar, but stammering Matt Firor who just recently had to proclaim adding redshell.dll to ESO was a "mistake" ( in fact copying the excuse Funcom used a few weeks earlier when they got caught with it in Exiles ), is automatically believable?
I'm fairly sure that employee knows where the HE engine is being used and would not risk their job stating falsehoods. But I'm sure if the employee is lying, ZOS will make HE issue a retraction.
I'll wait.
An employee of what exactly? The Repopulation which is now owned by Hero Engine? I'm not about to start defending Matt Firor's truthfulness but it seems to me Hero and Repop employees have a lot more to gain by saying that ESO, a highly successful MMO, uses it than Matt Firor has by denying it.
The Chief Operating Officer of Idea Fabrik. and the only thing IF has to gain by claiming ESO is running on HE is showing their product works when used by competent developers after SWtOR basically ruined their engines reputation. They could easily and successfully be sued if they were lying. So yeah, until I see Matt "deer in headlights on E3 stage" Firor refute IF's claims, I trust IF more.
Sounds to me that if ESO does use Hero and does not make mention of it nor is it any longer on the splash screens - which is the case - or if ZOS built their own engine using HERO and does not credit them, IF would have grounds to sue for breach of license or intellectual theft as Crytech is currently doing with RSI. So why aren't they?
Good question. Guess we'll see what happens either way.
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
What a game looks like is irrelevant when it comes to the game engine. That's purely the art team and any APIs the developers add to the game. Simply using an HDRI sky will make the game look completely different. How physics and light interacts is something that is based on science and does not alter from game to game much. The Hero Engine creates a framework to build an MMO with tools, a scripting language and a basic set of APIs. It's tools are bar none the best of a 3rd party engine. Unity and Unreal don't even come close to the ability of Hero Engine in creating an environment with scripted events. One easy tell that ESO used the Hero's engine is the character creation. It just looks like it was ripped straight out of the Engine.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.
Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It was not "just used for prototyping" as ZOS claimed.
Over at The Repopulation forums on Steam, a player got butthurt at someone saying ESO uses Hero Engine and trotted out the old "just prototyped" argument.
I don't understand what the point of still trying to figure this out is though? You either like the game or you don't, who cares what engine it is on?
Most people probably don't or shouldn't care. I test sometimes and I like to know details about things.
Also, understanding this can help me make choices about games. Take Unity. It can be used to make great games. I don't think it can be used to make great MMOs. I don't think it does MMORPGs well at all. There are ways it accomplishes things in the game that make it poorly suited to carry that out in a massively multiplayer environment.
Just a qualifier, Hero Engine's current website does not list ESO as a Hero Engine title on their links/menu any more, think it's only on the legacy page now.
It doesn't list all the games on that list. If you click the link to "Hero Games" it will bring you the "complete list" and mentions nothing about ESO being "legacy". In fact it clearly implies ESO is one of their games and we know that list is fairly current and not some "legacy page". Faxion Online is listed as a game, but was closed in 2011 and is listed as such on the page, but not on the games list.
The Hero employee misspoke and is out of line. They asserted wrong information and were either lying outright or were unacceptably negligent with the truth. They have a responsibility as a representative of the company to get it right.
So, the HE employee is an automatic liar, but stammering Matt Firor who just recently had to proclaim adding redshell.dll to ESO was a "mistake" ( in fact copying the excuse Funcom used a few weeks earlier when they got caught with it in Exiles ), is automatically believable?
I'm fairly sure that employee knows where the HE engine is being used and would not risk their job stating falsehoods. But I'm sure if the employee is lying, ZOS will make HE issue a retraction.
I'll wait.
An employee of what exactly? The Repopulation which is now owned by Hero Engine? I'm not about to start defending Matt Firor's truthfulness but it seems to me Hero and Repop employees have a lot more to gain by saying that ESO, a highly successful MMO, uses it than Matt Firor has by denying it.
The Chief Operating Officer of Idea Fabrik. and the only thing IF has to gain by claiming ESO is running on HE is showing their product works when used by competent developers after SWtOR basically ruined their engines reputation. They could easily and successfully be sued if they were lying. So yeah, until I see Matt "deer in headlights on E3 stage" Firor refute IF's claims, I trust IF more.
Sounds to me that if ESO does use Hero and does not make mention of it nor is it any longer on the splash screens - which is the case - or if ZOS built their own engine using HERO and does not credit them, IF would have grounds to sue for breach of license or intellectual theft as Crytech is currently doing with RSI. So why aren't they?
Agree. And maybe its because its not black and white. Hero used vs. Hero not used.
MF said that they used Hero whilst creating their own engine. He didn't say their engine was finished when ESO launched. This could be the reason the Hero logo was there at launch but - after more development - it isn't there now.
Maybe the agreement they signed with IF obliged them to show the logo if certain engine modules were used or maybe a certain % of the code (all programs have sections of code that are "standard"). And - again after more development - this is no longer the case so Zen no longer need to show the logo.
If the latter applies IF may still be able to truthfully say that ESO uses Hero!
Or maybe they did indeed just use it for "pro-totyping" and the deal they signed obliged them to show the logo for X years after which they could remove it - maybe paying IF a buy-out sum of money.
I am not saying that any of these scenarios applies. Just highlighting that things are (probably) not as black and white as Hero used vs. Hero not used.
Comments
Also, Bethesda ( and thus ZOS by extension ) have a nasty habit of proclaiming other peoples stuff as their own ( i.e. remember when they said they made the "Creation Engine", only for it to be discovered rather easily that it was just a highly modified Gamebryo ).
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
I'm fairly sure that employee knows where the HE engine is being used and would not risk their job stating falsehoods. But I'm sure if the employee is lying, ZOS will make HE issue a retraction.
I'll wait.
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
SWTOR uses a very early and incomplete fork of the Hero Engine. One of the alpha versions that they then built out the rest of the way themselves.
ESO supposedly uses it's own in-house engine, and Hero Engine was used to prototype the game.
While rendering is tied to engine, the model visuals, textural detail, and animations are beholden to the artists for each game. That aspect falls to what the development studio itself is capable of.
Repop still uses HE and will be using HE, as Repop is owned by Idea Fabrik, HE owners.
Also, as an added bit, I should add that the HE employee referenced in my OP is the Chief Operating Officer of Idea Fabrik.
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
― CD PROJEKT RED
"... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
__ Wizardry, 2020
Both social media internet fads and actually the vast majority of gamers (that don't go onto forums/reddit etc) don't actually care.
What most gamers care about...
Is the game fun to play?
A: Yes and it doesn't matter what game the engine is on or who the publisher is
B: No, the game is bad and any developer or/and publisher can release a bad game
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.
On a side note I was bummed out when Hero's Journey was cancelled which I think was the MMORPG they created using their engine. (Hence the name Hero)
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I don't really care about the engine so much as I'm tired of seeing devs lie about every damn thing nowdays and if a lie can blow up in a devs face, I'm all for it. I'll just as easily turn on IF if ZOS proves they're lying.
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.
One way you might check if Hero Engine may have been adapted into the current one they use is to go into the game's data files to look for references to the engine, if you are so inclined. That's what users did to find which version of Gamebryo Bethesda adapted into the Creation Engine.
― CD PROJEKT RED
"... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
__ Wizardry, 2020
MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.
The Hero Engine creates a framework to build an MMO with tools, a scripting language and a basic set of APIs. It's tools are bar none the best of a 3rd party engine. Unity and Unreal don't even come close to the ability of Hero Engine in creating an environment with scripted events.
One easy tell that ESO used the Hero's engine is the character creation. It just looks like it was ripped straight out of the Engine.
"See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
MF said that they used Hero whilst creating their own engine. He didn't say their engine was finished when ESO launched. This could be the reason the Hero logo was there at launch but - after more development - it isn't there now.
Maybe the agreement they signed with IF obliged them to show the logo if certain engine modules were used or maybe a certain % of the code (all programs have sections of code that are "standard"). And - again after more development - this is no longer the case so Zen no longer need to show the logo.
If the latter applies IF may still be able to truthfully say that ESO uses Hero!
Or maybe they did indeed just use it for "pro-totyping" and the deal they signed obliged them to show the logo for X years after which they could remove it - maybe paying IF a buy-out sum of money.
I am not saying that any of these scenarios applies. Just highlighting that things are (probably) not as black and white as Hero used vs. Hero not used.