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Fallout 76 is indeed an MMORPG, and it sounds pretty great! - MMORPG.com News

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    DMKano said:
    So, what's the subscription model going to be for this so-called "MMORPG"? :wink:

    I personally want to see nukes in the cash shop ;)

    "My clan finally got nuke launch codes after 3 months of grinding"

    oh yeah - just bought 5 nukes from the shop for $100 - kekekeke
    Who do you nuke?  Those guys that raided you last night are now in a different random instance...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,648
    DMKano said:
    So, what's the subscription model going to be for this so-called "MMORPG"? :wink:

    I personally want to see nukes in the cash shop ;)

    "My clan finally got nuke launch codes after 3 months of grinding"

    oh yeah - just bought 5 nukes from the shop for $100 - kekekeke
    Who do you nuke?  Those guys that raided you last night are now in a different random instance...
    I was clearly joking
    Hatefull
  • krulerkruler Member UncommonPosts: 589
    And in the mean time should we expect a another cash grab in the form of enhanced FO4 edition to truly keep the cash rolling till FO5, a question a lot will ask.


    Depends how well FO76 does I guess, but I would not complain if there was a enhanced FO4 got 100,s of hours in a heavy modded version and 1/2 the mods are to do with looks, so makes sense to me.


    I am more stoked for a FO5 than this FO76 as with ESO being in Australia when I hear megaserver I just hear really really shithouse lag all the time, I get it really huge distance and low population, so I am not entitled to bugger all gaming wise, you deal with what you got, it is what it is.

    But I do find Megaservers a tad biased to country of base. with some exceptions (Nods to Eve).


    Where as region based servers tend serve the rest of the world a little bit better...
    blueturtle13

  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,223
    DMKano said:
    Anthur said:
    I am not really in the mood to discuss whether F76 can now be labeled mmorpg, mog, conan/rust like or whatever. I don't care.
    The most important fact I take from that conference is that F76 is a muliplayer game. Yes, you might be able to play solo, but it's focus is multiplayer.
    As someone who would have a liked a single player game (with story, meaningful and lasting consequences etc.) I have to say I am disappointed.

    I understand this - but after fallout 3, fallout 4 - you really want to play fallout 5 which would be the same damn thing just new map, higher textures, better graphics - but same old single-player experience?

    For me multiplayer is what is breathing fresh air into a stagnating gameplay over the years - heck even Fallout76 looks like a Fallout4 mod IMO - I think that multiplayer is the biggest and most exciting feature 
    I will answer your question for him.  Yes we wanted a single player game, with those things you listed.  I got the feeling this will go the way mass effect did and they will stop single player all together in the long run.  Some people like myself play these IP's to get away from playing with other people, when we want to be alone and have fun without others distracting us.  That is what I have WoW, LOTRO, SWTOR, Tera, any of the survival games already out, ect... for.  So basically this is like some other games has been a slap in the face to those of us that wanted a single player game like this IP has been the entire time.

    Now if they come back and say they are going to allow the people that choose solo play to have their own instances with no others in them, which I truly doubt, then I will take back what I have said.  Until I hear that from the devs, just nope.
    KaliGoldHatefullkrulerJeleenaAsm0deusTacticalZombeh
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    So, what's the subscription model going to be for this so-called "MMORPG"? :wink:

    I personally want to see nukes in the cash shop ;)

    "My clan finally got nuke launch codes after 3 months of grinding"

    oh yeah - just bought 5 nukes from the shop for $100 - kekekeke
    Who do you nuke?  Those guys that raided you last night are now in a different random instance...
    I was clearly joking
    I know you were, but sadly I wasn't.  Persistence is a huge part of the game for me and I fear this is the Achilles heel of the game.
    JamesGoblinkruler

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 796
    I wonder about your settlements. How does that work? Is it limited space? Like Landmark? Is it instanced? Is it a hosted server that can only hold like a 100 people total like Ark/Conan Exiles/Dark and Light? Or is the system like Destiny model?
  • FrozenyearroundFrozenyearround Member UncommonPosts: 155
    I don't understand why people get worked up over how many people you see. If there were a million people on your screen you would still only talk to those in your guild or friends list. You would end up closing chat cause of how toxic it got, it would take you longer to complete quest because you will need to get in line and wait for an npc or flower to spawn.

    Call it an mmo a survival game make up your own title.
    Getting worked up because your definition of an mmo is different from another persons really that's where we are heading here?
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,648
    edited June 2018
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    So, what's the subscription model going to be for this so-called "MMORPG"? :wink:

    I personally want to see nukes in the cash shop ;)

    "My clan finally got nuke launch codes after 3 months of grinding"

    oh yeah - just bought 5 nukes from the shop for $100 - kekekeke
    Who do you nuke?  Those guys that raided you last night are now in a different random instance...
    I was clearly joking
    I know you were, but sadly I wasn't.  Persistence is a huge part of the game for me and I fear this is the Achilles heel of the game.


    When you play Fortnite or Overwatch, the enemy is different every match.

    I think it will be the same in F76 - the map will have enemy players, I personally dont mind if its a different group of players every time.

    The base map is the persistent layer, whatever phased or instanced base content they add on top - i am fine with that
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,648
    I wonder about your settlements. How does that work? Is it limited space? Like Landmark? Is it instanced? Is it a hosted server that can only hold like a 100 people total like Ark/Conan Exiles/Dark and Light? Or is the system like Destiny model?

    Gonna be phased most likely, since its megaserver so 10000 people could all build on the same spot
  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 191
    System said:

     And yes, it's an MMO like ESO!

    But is it really?
    TacticalZombehTheScavenger
  • LheiahLheiah Member UncommonPosts: 190
    Wonder if it will have an economy or not, my kind of pvp. If it doesn't have an economy, don't think it will hold my interest for long.

    Also would like to know how bases are going to work with logging on and off, and whether other players can destroy your sh*t or not. If that is the case, then I will probably pass, definitely for launch prices. With my limited play time, last thing I want to do is spend it rebuilding for some asshat to come knock it down again.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,876
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    So, what's the subscription model going to be for this so-called "MMORPG"? :wink:

    I personally want to see nukes in the cash shop ;)

    "My clan finally got nuke launch codes after 3 months of grinding"

    oh yeah - just bought 5 nukes from the shop for $100 - kekekeke
    Who do you nuke?  Those guys that raided you last night are now in a different random instance...
    I was clearly joking
    I know you were, but sadly I wasn't.  Persistence is a huge part of the game for me and I fear this is the Achilles heel of the game.


    When you play Fortnite or Overwatch, the enemy is different every match.

    I think it will be the same in F76 - the map will have enemy players, I personally dont mind if its a different group of players every time.
    That's what makes Overwatch different from an MMORPG.  Well, one of the things.  I believe trying to push it as an MMORPG (see title) will set the wrong expectations and result in un-needed drama.

    TacticalZombeh

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited June 2018
    DMKano said:
    The key question for me is: How does this shared world setup work with base building etc... How can I even have enemies to nuke if they change every time I login? I suppose if they have clans they can use that to lock-in our bases, but it’s going to suck to just have random worlds every time I login...

    Phasing or some spin on instancing - there is no other way to do it on a megaserver.

    The beauty of a private/standalone server is that the changes done by players to the world as far as building etc.. - are seen by all.

    Can't do that with a megaserver - so phasing is the answer - to what extent and how they do it remains to be seen.
    This is one of the reasons phasing/instancing is a detriment to the idea of massively multiplayer that has nothing to do with players on the screen at the same time.

    As Kano mentioned, phasing means any effect you have on the world isn't really an effect on the world, but in your tiny little instance of the world.

    I think Bill is completely missing a lot to kind of shrug off what phasing and instancing does.

    There's a lot more to massively multiplayer than merely getting a shit ton of player models on the screen.
    JamesGoblinTacticalZombeh

    image
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,793
    Iselin said:


    I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.


    This is my feeling as well.

    It ruins the experience to have players just getting in the way when one is doing a quest or trying to immerse one's self.

    This happens to me in Elder Scrolls Online all the time. I can't tell you how many times I vanquished a boss without ever touching it because a horde of people mowed right over it just as I spawned.

    Or I'm "talking" to a quest giver but players are running between me and the quest giver.



  • vanderghastvanderghast Member UncommonPosts: 286
    not interested. Survival games are the worst.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited June 2018
    Sovrath said:
    Iselin said:


    I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.


    This is my feeling as well.

    It ruins the experience to have players just getting in the way when one is doing a quest or trying to immerse one's self.

    This happens to me in Elder Scrolls Online all the time. I can't tell you how many times I vanquished a boss without ever touching it because a horde of people mowed right over it just as I spawned.

    Or I'm "talking" to a quest giver but players are running between me and the quest giver.
    Boss mobs getting run over could be alleviated by dynamic scaling, no need for phasing there.

    There are other answers to these issues, phasing and instancing are merely easy ones.

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Iselin said:
    Kyleran said:



    Iselin said:

    It's a lot closer to survival games than an MMORPG but it does sound very cool with traditional Fallout story quests built in.

    What Tod Howard said in the presentation tonight that "you can carry your progress to other servers" and "you won't even notice you're in a different server" sounds to me like they'll be using something like a heavily instanced megaserver tech to handle different servers more seamlessly than what is normal in survival games.

    I get what you're saying @BillMurphy, l in that this will be the closest a survival game has ever gotten to a full fledged mmoprg with respect to game play elements, size, quests and scope but I also agree with @blueturtle13 that "dozens" instead of hundreds or thousands is still a key and relevant difference between this and say the Elder Scrolls Online.

    Yep, I agree with Blue too. It's just I also don't think, outside of big sieges or cities, I've ever seen more than a few dozen players in one space in an MMO. For all intents and purposes, FO76 is going to look and feel like a Fallout sandbox MMO shooter. 


    Clesrly you haven't, dont play EVE then.

    Or DAOC, or L2, or.....others...

    Not a MMORPG, but this one I'm going to play, FFA PVP or not.
    I do get Bill's point. Over time mmorpgs have been getting progressively more and more managed with respect to the max number of players that are permitted to be all in one place at a time. 

    If the graphics and other systems were still the same as the original MMOs from the late '90s and early 2000s, present day connectivity and PC power could have been used to have even more players in the same space than we did back then, before you have to start counting seconds per frame instead of frames per second. And Eve has always been a special case because there's not a whole lot that needs to be rendered in space. I know what graphics Eve has are not bad but it's nevertheless a good example of what could be done with current PC power and low graphics processing demands.

    Instead of freezing the graphics at 2000 levels, game developers (thankfully) chose to use the increased specs to give us more and more detailed graphics for environments characters and effects while at the same time focusing on game play that does not require huge number of players on screen to enjoy.

    When you put things like that together you do have to start questioning whether the potential to have large number of players on screen means all that much with respect to the players experiencing a world full of other players when the zoning, phasing and channeling tricks that are now common do a good enough job of simulating the experience.

    I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.

    So a game like ESO that is heavily instanced and phased and spawns local instances on the fly if a location is getting too crowded for all PVE, but at the same time allows several hundred players to be in one PVP zone at the same time for large scale RvR, suits me fine. I think of it as an MMO and so do most of us with the possible exception of one or two extremists here.

    I still can't bring myself to call a game like FO76 an MMO because it never allows more than "dozens" anywhere at any time for any reason. But I do see why some question whether there is any practical difference worth fretting about and I especially see it for people that never participate in large scale PVP - and there has always been quite a few of those players in MMOs. 
    I somewhat agree, but remember that the "graphics arms race" is the chief cause of exploding development costs.  You can't bitch about monetization methods like we do without acknowledging that we contribute because we demand high poly-counts and HDR lighting everywhere.

    Our constant need for pushing the envelope on graphics, and our monetary support of games that do so, do cause priorities to shift within development.  The Watch Dogs trailer debate comes to mind.

    If fans of truly massively multiplayer games want to experience said massively multiplayer, we first need to recognize that we can't expect the releases to be competitive in the visual department because that costs a shit ton of time, money, and PC resources to run that could be used on other things.

    image
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,793
    Sovrath said:
    Iselin said:


    I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.


    This is my feeling as well.

    It ruins the experience to have players just getting in the way when one is doing a quest or trying to immerse one's self.

    This happens to me in Elder Scrolls Online all the time. I can't tell you how many times I vanquished a boss without ever touching it because a horde of people mowed right over it just as I spawned.

    Or I'm "talking" to a quest giver but players are running between me and the quest giver.
    Boss mobs getting run over could be alleviated by dynamic scaling, no need for phasing there.

    There are other answers to these issues, phasing and instancing are merely easy ones.
    Great! But that doesn't mitigate the fact that at this point, players are getting in the way.





  • SuilebhainSuilebhain Member UncommonPosts: 57
    edited June 2018
    It almost seems like they are adopting the GTA Online model where, if you just log in, you wind up in a general instance that has an opening, but you can switch to an instance that contains friends, and it is possible to start an instance and password-protect it, ensuring solo play. Otherwise, how can we possibly have a hope to play with friends, let along, actually play somewhere that has a population that roleplays. It would have been better if they had followed the Conan Exiles model of public servers and private servers. Maybe they'll figure that out in BETA.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited June 2018
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Iselin said:


    I personally do enjoy large scale PVP and want large crowds for that, but if I'm being honest, that is the only thing I do in MMOs where having those large crowds makes my gaming experience better. With a lot of other things I do in MMOs, large crowds are not needed and sometimes they just get in the way.


    This is my feeling as well.

    It ruins the experience to have players just getting in the way when one is doing a quest or trying to immerse one's self.

    This happens to me in Elder Scrolls Online all the time. I can't tell you how many times I vanquished a boss without ever touching it because a horde of people mowed right over it just as I spawned.

    Or I'm "talking" to a quest giver but players are running between me and the quest giver.
    Boss mobs getting run over could be alleviated by dynamic scaling, no need for phasing there.

    There are other answers to these issues, phasing and instancing are merely easy ones.
    Great! But that doesn't mitigate the fact that at this point, players are getting in the way.


    Well.......  That's massively multiplayer.

    Folks who come into those games hoping for a game world tailored to them seem confused, more than anything else, to me.

    Besides, bitching about other players being in the way is like taking the PvP ganking example to the extreme: I don't just want not to be ganked by a player I can't hope to defend myself against, I don't want to be ganked by any player unless I queue up and let you know I'm ready for it!

    Well, in that case, just play the regular server and queue for the battlegrounds.

    Similarly, there is and always has been plenty of multiplayer-enabled titles that are strictly opt-in to the multiplayer parts.  Massively multiplayer hasn't always been one, and for good reason: that made it distinct from those regular ole multiplayer titles.

    EDIT- for clarity of point

    image
  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,315
    Its not an mmo so stop spreading false info. Its a multiplayer survival gankbox. It will be garbage and kills what fallout was all about. 
    KaliGoldturinmacleodTacticalZombeh
  • KaliGoldKaliGold Member UncommonPosts: 36
    Hariken said:
    Its not an mmo so stop spreading false info. Its a multiplayer survival gankbox. It will be garbage and kills what fallout was all about. 

    Bingo!!!

    turinmacleod
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,117
    not interested. Survival games are the worst.
    I used to think that until I played Conan Exiles. But yeah I have no interest in a Fallout MMO. None at all.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • FrozenyearroundFrozenyearround Member UncommonPosts: 155
    edited June 2018
    Hariken said:
    Its not an mmo so stop spreading false info. Its a multiplayer survival gankbox. It will be garbage and kills what fallout was all about. 
    Oh look everyone here is the guy that has the definition of mmo on lock down.  He is also the only one who knows what "fallout was all about" and this new game will be garbage.  

    It's so nice that nobody cares about your opinion.  But please feel free to post your bias opinions.  I for one can't wait for this mmo I'm sure I won t be the only one either.  
    Slapshot1188KaliGoldTacticalZombeh
  • AvanahAvanah Member RarePosts: 1,496
    Disappointed they went the grief fest route. I think I'll be passing on Fallout 76...
    Someone didn't watch the entire presentation or knows much about Fallout 76.

    "My Fantasy is having two men at once...

    One Cooking and One Cleaning!"



    "A good man can make you feel sexy,

    strong and able to take on the whole world...

    oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."





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