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The woes of Korean developed games...

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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,560
    Where's our new western AAA MMOs?
    Aside from FFXI, FFXIV and Lineage, what other AAA MMOs have we seen from the east? Before you answer, I myself would consider ArcheAge as a AAA MMO, but the management has turned it into anything but.

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,827
    Rhoklaw said:
    cheyane said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Wizardry said:
    I have a little news for you,the supposed kingpin..Blizzard fails more than enough to not label this as an Asian only problem.

    Their Cataclysym debacle had Blizzard shut down the forums to keep all the problems quiet and claimed forums were down for other reasons.Same ordeal with map glitches.
    "client side files"how about almost every last developer uploads files for the next expansion BEFORE the expansion is released so that the hackers can get first hand information ,often IMPORTANT information before the rest of the legit players.

    There are certain tropes that belong to Asian games however the gap has narrowed,NA developers are every bit as guilty when comes to polish and depth and ideas that make sense.
    How can you get a more SLOPPY game design than crowd funding,shortage of funds and not knowing exactly how much money you have to work with and proven fact is the nominal CF target goals have NEVER been enough.
    You can't hire the proper team to build a game nor can you aim for depth or AAA quality if you don't have the immediate budget.Perfect example is a NA developer building Star Citizen,they have the money and still struggle badly because the design was a sloppy non polished ,lack of direction type design ,so they just wing it with target goals and ship sales.


    Pretty much every Korean game published in the past 4 years has been a B2P / F2P PvP focused + cash shop P2W shit storm.


    Revelation Online
    In all fairness, Revelation Online is not Korean =)
    Most folk don't know the difference between Korean and Chinese they just dump everything Asian in one basket.
    Well, I apologize for my rude generalization. 

     I don't believe I'm being biased when I say it's apparent that "Asian" game developers do not have gamers interest in the same boat as their own.
    Again you are generalizing. 
    What you should have said was that you feel Eastern MMO developers develop MMOs for an Eastern audience and fail to develop MMOs that capture a Western audience.
    Asian games are incredibly popular in the West. Though MMOs have had a rough go of it. The reason being that most Western MMO gamers prefer Western made MMO games. 
    Plain and simple.  
    TorvalrojoArcueidMrMelGibson

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    Kyleran said:
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    Or my personal choice:

    Option 5. Ban Asian publishers from releasing games in the west until they learn how to fix this shit.
    Viper482MrMelGibsonRhoklaw

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,946
    Where's our new western AAA MMOs?

    There are none. :/





    MisterZebub
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,764
    Kyleran said:
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    Or my personal choice:

    Option 5. Ban Asian publishers from releasing games in the west until they learn how to fix this shit.
    Says the guy who argues for an open hands off Steam store. So hands off when it works for you and protectionist bans, when it works for you. That doesn't seem consistent especially given the specious nature of your ban motivation.
    blueturtle13craftseekerMrMelGibsonwingood
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    Or my personal choice:

    Option 5. Ban Asian publishers from releasing games in the west until they learn how to fix this shit.
    Says the guy who argues for an open hands off Steam store. So hands off when it works for you and protectionist bans, when it works for you. That doesn't seem consistent especially given the specious nature of your ban motivation.
    Not a proponent of the hands off Steam store, just sick of people using disingenuous, outrageous, worst case scenario examples to justify why its a bad idea, when the current shit state of Steam game quality should be enough to speak for itself.

    Also J. J. Abrams Star Trek movies suck. Neener neener neener. That is all. B)
    TorvalMadFrenchiecraftseeker

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,764
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    Or my personal choice:

    Option 5. Ban Asian publishers from releasing games in the west until they learn how to fix this shit.
    Says the guy who argues for an open hands off Steam store. So hands off when it works for you and protectionist bans, when it works for you. That doesn't seem consistent especially given the specious nature of your ban motivation.
    Not a proponent of the hands off Steam store, just sick of people using disingenuous, outrageous, worst case scenario examples to justify why its a bad idea, when the current shit state of Steam game quality should be enough to speak for itself.

    Also J. J. Abrams Star Trek movies suck. Neener neener neener. That is all. B)
    Okay MISTER! That earned you a WTF. :tongue: You take back the neeners and admit he's probably also the saving grace of the Star Wars franchise that is trying harder than hell to kill itself.
    MisterZebubKyleran
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    Or my personal choice:

    Option 5. Ban Asian publishers from releasing games in the west until they learn how to fix this shit.
    Says the guy who argues for an open hands off Steam store. So hands off when it works for you and protectionist bans, when it works for you. That doesn't seem consistent especially given the specious nature of your ban motivation.
    Not a proponent of the hands off Steam store, just sick of people using disingenuous, outrageous, worst case scenario examples to justify why its a bad idea, when the current shit state of Steam game quality should be enough to speak for itself.

    Also J. J. Abrams Star Trek movies suck. Neener neener neener. That is all. B)
    Okay MISTER! That earned you a WTF. :tongue: You take back the neeners and admit he's probably also the saving grace of the Star Wars franchise that is trying harder than hell to kill itself.
    LOL! Actually I enjoyed the Trek films, they had some flaws but on the whole were entertaining. The Star Wars shit though, bleh those do nothing for me at all.
    MadFrenchieTorvalblueturtle13

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,111
    The Korean-made games that I've liked (mainly Elsword and Tree of Savior) don't fit your description at all.  I wasn't aware of any cheating or hacking in those games at all, and I played them for quite a few months each.  Tree of Savior did have quite a problem with botting, but I don't recall ever seeing any bots in Elsword at all, in spite of having played 11 characters all the way up to the then-level cap of 85.

    While I don't doubt that there have been several Korean-made games that had similar problems, it's inaccurate to claim that everything ever made in South Korea is identical.
    blueturtle13MrMelGibson
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    Quizzical said:
    The Korean-made games that I've liked (mainly Elsword and Tree of Savior) don't fit your description at all.  I wasn't aware of any cheating or hacking in those games at all, and I played them for quite a few months each.  Tree of Savior did have quite a problem with botting, but I don't recall ever seeing any bots in Elsword at all, in spite of having played 11 characters all the way up to the then-level cap of 85.

    While I don't doubt that there have been several Korean-made games that had similar problems, it's inaccurate to claim that everything ever made in South Korea is identical.
    Isn't Elsword very similar to an ARPG in that you mostly play in your own maps and never with other people unless you choose to? So typically you wouldn't really be able to see any other botters unless they were retarded enough to join a group with randoms?

    Also ToS definitely had tons of cheating(if you count exploits as cheating) and hacking and continues to. Here's a video someone took as evidence(second time they tried to get this same person reported for using the same hacked skills)



    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,326
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    Or my personal choice:

    Option 5. Ban Asian publishers from releasing games in the west until they learn how to fix this shit.
    Says the guy who argues for an open hands off Steam store. So hands off when it works for you and protectionist bans, when it works for you. That doesn't seem consistent especially given the specious nature of your ban motivation.
    Not a proponent of the hands off Steam store, just sick of people using disingenuous, outrageous, worst case scenario examples to justify why its a bad idea, when the current shit state of Steam game quality should be enough to speak for itself.

    Also J. J. Abrams Star Trek movies suck. Neener neener neener. That is all. B)
    Okay MISTER! That earned you a WTF. :tongue: You take back the neeners and admit he's probably also the saving grace of the Star Wars franchise that is trying harder than hell to kill itself.
    Too late, regarding the Star Trek Franchise...."it's dead, Jim."

    ;)

    Scot

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,019
    Rhoklaw said:
    Where's our new western AAA MMOs?
    Aside from FFXI, FFXIV and Lineage, what other AAA MMOs have we seen from the east? Before you answer, I myself would consider ArcheAge as a AAA MMO, but the management has turned it into anything but.
    I think Tera is a good example of a well made Korean MMO.  
    Gobstopper3DRhoklawblueturtle13
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,070
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    Or my personal choice:

    Option 5. Ban Asian publishers from releasing games in the west until they learn how to fix this shit.
    Says the guy who argues for an open hands off Steam store. So hands off when it works for you and protectionist bans, when it works for you. That doesn't seem consistent especially given the specious nature of your ban motivation.
    Not a proponent of the hands off Steam store, just sick of people using disingenuous, outrageous, worst case scenario examples to justify why its a bad idea, when the current shit state of Steam game quality should be enough to speak for itself.

    Also J. J. Abrams Star Trek movies suck. Neener neener neener. That is all. B)
    Okay MISTER! That earned you a WTF. :tongue: You take back the neeners and admit he's probably also the saving grace of the Star Wars franchise that is trying harder than hell to kill itself.
    LOL! Actually I enjoyed the Trek films, they had some flaws but on the whole were entertaining. The Star Wars shit though, bleh those do nothing for me at all.
    When you decided to make the move from a venerated film trilogy which has an enormous fan base decades after the films launched, to a two films a year marketing franchise you are going to get humongous issues.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,070
    Kyleran said:


    Okay MISTER! That earned you a WTF. :tongue: You take back the neeners and admit he's probably also the saving grace of the Star Wars franchise that is trying harder than hell to kill itself.
    Too late, regarding the Star Trek Franchise...."it's dead, Jim."

    ;)

    Classic baiting to confuse ST and SW fans, stop it. :D
    MrMelGibsonTorvalKyleran

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Member LegendaryPosts: 3,584
    Scot said:
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    Or my personal choice:

    Option 5. Ban Asian publishers from releasing games in the west until they learn how to fix this shit.
    Says the guy who argues for an open hands off Steam store. So hands off when it works for you and protectionist bans, when it works for you. That doesn't seem consistent especially given the specious nature of your ban motivation.
    Not a proponent of the hands off Steam store, just sick of people using disingenuous, outrageous, worst case scenario examples to justify why its a bad idea, when the current shit state of Steam game quality should be enough to speak for itself.

    Also J. J. Abrams Star Trek movies suck. Neener neener neener. That is all. B)
    Okay MISTER! That earned you a WTF. :tongue: You take back the neeners and admit he's probably also the saving grace of the Star Wars franchise that is trying harder than hell to kill itself.
    LOL! Actually I enjoyed the Trek films, they had some flaws but on the whole were entertaining. The Star Wars shit though, bleh those do nothing for me at all.
    When you decided to make the move from a venerated film trilogy which has an enormous fan base decades after the films launched, to a two films a year marketing franchise you are going to get humongous issues.
    I'll add further, when you try to move the franchise further along, but seem to be too afraid to avoid cleaving to the original trilogy for nostalgic reasons, but still manage to shit all over said original trilogy whilst still using them too cement your anemic "what happens next, yet is just more of the same shit we've already seen" "NEW" story because you have no bastard clue of what direction you want the franchise to go, but you still bull right along because you have to justify that insane amount of money you spent to secure a franchise whose stellar populartiy you so painfully obviously do not understand, and frankly never will.
    Scot

    "You have kept me at your beck and call for fifteen years. I shall never again do what you demand of me. By every rule of single combat, from this moment your life belongs to me. Is that not correct? Then I shall simply declare you dead. In all of your dealings with me, you'll do me the courtesy to conduct yourself as a dead man. I have submitted to your notions of honor long enough. You will now submit to mine."

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,946
    edited June 2018
    Rhoklaw said:
    Where's our new western AAA MMOs?
    Aside from FFXI, FFXIV and Lineage, what other AAA MMOs have we seen from the east? Before you answer, I myself would consider ArcheAge as a AAA MMO, but the management has turned it into anything but.
    I think Tera is a good example of a well made Korean MMO.  

    Tera, Blade And Soul, Aion, Lineage 2, Black Desert and ArcheAge are all high quality eastern mmos.

    The next wave in 2019 will be Accent Infinite Realm, Lost Ark, Astellia Online and The Lineage ( Project TL ). 

    Thats not even counting games coming from China. ;)

    blueturtle13MrMelGibson
  • RhomsRhoms Member UncommonPosts: 174
    I get what the OP is saying, but wow, I feel like some of us might have some short memories.  The genre has had all kinds of ridiculous dupes, hax, botting, exploits, and general game gnarliness since its inception.

    Suckin is universal.  Although we've seen this in recent Korean MMOs, it's certainly not exclusively on them.

    I know that some of these titles have been released for a long time in other regions.  You can point the finger at the devs for not fixing some of these long known issues.  Nevertheless, no wipe early access is definitely part of the problem.  Game companies could solve this by having an actual beta testing period with a wipe.  However, I think many companies are under enormous pressure to begin generating revenue, and this push has come at the expense of testing and quality.  Ultimately, these games suffer.

    Current game: Pillars of Eternity

    Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2 

    Tried: WOW, Rift, SWTOR, ESO 

    Future: Camelot Unchained?  Crowfall?  Bless?

  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,446
    most asia grinders nowdays are not meant to live long and prosper, they copy their old engines, slap on "some" new art and maybe some new content, and sell it again.

    and if that is not what they do, then they wasted time imo, bc that is what came out of it in the last time.

    so, what i am saying? people buy it, every time, whales, and the mass of normal players spend money, and make the project go to about 0 again, with some luck, they even make money.

    if the project goes down? who cares, copy it again and give it birdies instead of cat companions this time. the mass will come and check it out.
    RhoklawDakeruMisterZebub

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 516
    I don't understand how anyone would assume that the western launch of Bless was going to be any different than the eastern launch.  It was a reboot, not a rewrite.  All they (the publishers) are attempting to do is milk more customers... and since the west if full of desperate gamers, they knew they'd milk some money.

    Bless is exactly what it always has been.  It was never developed with the west in mind, only the east.  It was never successful in the east, so why would it be successful in the west?  It's a reboot after all... and a very shallow one at that.

    Play it.  Don't play it.  But don't bitch about it being broken when it was always broken.  Consider it a house flip in which the buyers already spent too much money trying to fix it and then decided to sell it at a loss as-is.  That is Bless.  A game that was never complete, but delivered to the market anyways... twice.

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,560
    Mikeha said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Where's our new western AAA MMOs?
    Aside from FFXI, FFXIV and Lineage, what other AAA MMOs have we seen from the east? Before you answer, I myself would consider ArcheAge as a AAA MMO, but the management has turned it into anything but.
    I think Tera is a good example of a well made Korean MMO.  

    Tera, Blade And Soul, Aion, Lineage 2, Black Desert and ArcheAge are all high quality eastern mmos.

    The next wave in 2019 will be Accent Infinite Realm, Lost Ark, Astellia Online and The Lineage ( Project TL ). 

    Thats not even counting games coming from China. ;)

    I liked TERA, but Blade and Soul? Please. In fact, I would chalk that up with the rest of the ones I consider massive failures.

    ArcheAge
    Black Desert Online
    Revelation Online
    Riders of Icarus
    Blade and Soul
    Bless Online

    Compared to much better Asian MMOs such as.

    FFXI
    FFXIV
    TERA
    Lineage

    As for Aion, I'm not sure how I'd rate it, so I won't add it to either list. If Accent: Infinite Realms is as bad as it's presented itself as, that will also go on the massive failure list.

    Quizzical said:
    The Korean-made games that I've liked (mainly Elsword and Tree of Savior) don't fit your description at all.  I wasn't aware of any cheating or hacking in those games at all, and I played them for quite a few months each.  Tree of Savior did have quite a problem with botting, but I don't recall ever seeing any bots in Elsword at all, in spite of having played 11 characters all the way up to the then-level cap of 85.

    While I don't doubt that there have been several Korean-made games that had similar problems, it's inaccurate to claim that everything ever made in South Korea is identical.
    It's not that they are entirely identical, but they do have a lot of the same ground work in regards to most if not all are B2P / F2P PvP focused games with cash shops. It's a trend that seems quite prevalent since 2014 with ArcheAge being the start of it. As for cheating in western MMOs, its generally not a huge issue since most western MMOs are not PvP focused. It's bad enough the amount of P2W / P2A we see in eastern MMO cash shops, but the amount and severity of cheating in them is far more serious a problem in my opinion.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,111
    Sephiroso said:
    Quizzical said:
    The Korean-made games that I've liked (mainly Elsword and Tree of Savior) don't fit your description at all.  I wasn't aware of any cheating or hacking in those games at all, and I played them for quite a few months each.  Tree of Savior did have quite a problem with botting, but I don't recall ever seeing any bots in Elsword at all, in spite of having played 11 characters all the way up to the then-level cap of 85.

    While I don't doubt that there have been several Korean-made games that had similar problems, it's inaccurate to claim that everything ever made in South Korea is identical.
    Isn't Elsword very similar to an ARPG in that you mostly play in your own maps and never with other people unless you choose to? So typically you wouldn't really be able to see any other botters unless they were retarded enough to join a group with randoms?

    Also ToS definitely had tons of cheating(if you count exploits as cheating) and hacking and continues to. Here's a video someone took as evidence(second time they tried to get this same person reported for using the same hacked skills)

    Quite the opposite on Elsword:  it's the most group-heavy PVE game that I've ever played.  Nearly all of the content in the entire game is built for 4-man groups.  Most of the rest is open-world content to give you something to do while you wait a minute or so for the grouping queue to pop.

    I played Elsword for about a year, and never once saw anything that struck me as likely to be a hacker or botter.  That's out of probably a couple thousand dungeon runs grouped with other players.  I can't promise you that it didn't happen at all, but I can say that I never saw it and it never impacted my gameplay.

    Tree of Savior certainly has a lot of botters.  Certain parts of certain maps that are known to have mobs respawn very fast are overrun with archer bots.  But I never saw any obvious hacking other than that, nor rumors of it in chat.  And the game is basically purely PVE, so even if there were hacking, it wouldn't necessarily affect me.

    As I see it, the great difference is not one of "there is cheating" versus "there is no cheating".  Rather, the difference is "cheating is common enough that you can't ignore it and it wrecks the game" versus "cheating is rare enough to be inconsequential and not affect you".
    blueturtle13KyleranMrMelGibson
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,111
    Rhoklaw said:

    Quizzical said:
    The Korean-made games that I've liked (mainly Elsword and Tree of Savior) don't fit your description at all.  I wasn't aware of any cheating or hacking in those games at all, and I played them for quite a few months each.  Tree of Savior did have quite a problem with botting, but I don't recall ever seeing any bots in Elsword at all, in spite of having played 11 characters all the way up to the then-level cap of 85.

    While I don't doubt that there have been several Korean-made games that had similar problems, it's inaccurate to claim that everything ever made in South Korea is identical.
    It's not that they are entirely identical, but they do have a lot of the same ground work in regards to most if not all are B2P / F2P PvP focused games with cash shops. It's a trend that seems quite prevalent since 2014 with ArcheAge being the start of it. As for cheating in western MMOs, its generally not a huge issue since most western MMOs are not PvP focused. It's bad enough the amount of P2W / P2A we see in eastern MMO cash shops, but the amount and severity of cheating in them is far more serious a problem in my opinion.
    Tree of Savior really isn't pay to win, at least unless you regard subscription games as pay to win.  It mainly tries to make money from an optional $9/month subscription.  There is a cash shop, with most of the things in it cosmetic.  In terms of gameplay advantage, the person who spends $9/month for a subscription is vastly closer in gameplay power to the whale that spends $1000/month than the subscriber is to the person who pays nothing at all.

    Tree of Savior also isn't PVP focused.  Apart from dueling, I don't recall if the game even had PVP at all.  If it did, then it's completely consensual.

    Elsword is more open to an accusation of being pay to win, especially in top end PVP.  But that's basically irrelevant until you reach the end game.  And the PVP there is purely consensual, with no need to participate in it if you don't want to.
    blueturtle13RhoklawMrMelGibson
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,067
    Thane said:
    most asia grinders nowdays are not meant to live long and prosper, they copy their old engines, slap on "some" new art and maybe some new content, and sell it again.

    and if that is not what they do, then they wasted time imo, bc that is what came out of it in the last time.

    so, what i am saying? people buy it, every time, whales, and the mass of normal players spend money, and make the project go to about 0 again, with some luck, they even make money.

    if the project goes down? who cares, copy it again and give it birdies instead of cat companions this time. the mass will come and check it out.
    Same thing happens in the music and movie industry.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,111
    Rhoklaw said:
    Where's our new western AAA MMOs?
    Aside from FFXI, FFXIV and Lineage, what other AAA MMOs have we seen from the east? Before you answer, I myself would consider ArcheAge as a AAA MMO, but the management has turned it into anything but.
    Uncharted Waters Online is definitely an "eastern" game, but it's Japanese, not Korean.  Tecmo-Koei is very much a major game developer, and it has more content than any other game I've ever seen.  The original launch date of 2005 means that the graphics aren't state of the art today.  The game is very unorthodox in what it does, but I don't regard "not a WoW-clone" as meaning that an MMORPG isn't AAA.
    blueturtle13
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,070
    edited June 2018
    Scot said:
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    Or my personal choice:

    Option 5. Ban Asian publishers from releasing games in the west until they learn how to fix this shit.
    Says the guy who argues for an open hands off Steam store. So hands off when it works for you and protectionist bans, when it works for you. That doesn't seem consistent especially given the specious nature of your ban motivation.
    Not a proponent of the hands off Steam store, just sick of people using disingenuous, outrageous, worst case scenario examples to justify why its a bad idea, when the current shit state of Steam game quality should be enough to speak for itself.

    Also J. J. Abrams Star Trek movies suck. Neener neener neener. That is all. B)
    Okay MISTER! That earned you a WTF. :tongue: You take back the neeners and admit he's probably also the saving grace of the Star Wars franchise that is trying harder than hell to kill itself.
    LOL! Actually I enjoyed the Trek films, they had some flaws but on the whole were entertaining. The Star Wars shit though, bleh those do nothing for me at all.
    When you decided to make the move from a venerated film trilogy which has an enormous fan base decades after the films launched, to a two films a year marketing franchise you are going to get humongous issues.
    I'll add further, when you try to move the franchise further along, but seem to be too afraid to avoid cleaving to the original trilogy for nostalgic reasons, but still manage to shit all over said original trilogy whilst still using them too cement your anemic "what happens next, yet is just more of the same shit we've already seen" "NEW" story because you have no bastard clue of what direction you want the franchise to go, but you still bull right along because you have to justify that insane amount of money you spent to secure a franchise whose stellar populartiy you so painfully obviously do not understand, and frankly never will.
    I don't know enough to comment on SW story and lore, but my understanding from friends who are big fans is that many novels, cartoons(?) and comics have done a decent job of taking the story from the original trilogy forward. But the films seem hesitant and or going over the same ground.

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