Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

The woes of Korean developed games...

RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,560
Remember when ArcheAge launched? Remember all the videos of players traveling under the world in order to combat without being able to be attacked back? How about the players who would pick up trade packs from creation point, teleport to destination point and promptly sell them for maximum profit before teleporting back. Lets also not forget about the duping of Labor Potions or APEX which was the in-game currency used to pay for monthly subscriptions, much like Eve Onlines PLEX system. Now remember, this all happened within the first one to three months after NA launch.

Next on the list is Black Desert Online, where within a month players had hacked the client side data in order to manipulate their health and mana to godly proportions, basically rendering them unkillable on top of allowing them to decrease cooldowns on certain skills allowing them to dish out ridiculous amounts of damage. Call it cheating, hacking or exploiting, but the bottom like is, players who don't care if they get banned will risk it all just to gain that extreme edge. At first, when it was noticed players were abusing this, they only thought about the PvP aspects of such cheats, not realizing with these powers that one could literally farm elite mobs for rare drops, which in turn could be used to create very high end and thus extremely expensive gear. Now remember, this all happened within the first month after NA launch.

And last but not least, we have Bless Online, where within the first 72 hours, players had managed to dupe Concentrated Magic Stones, by abusing a browser based market into thinking a transaction wasn't completed yet when in fact it was. Allowing players to buy multiple bulk purchases of 100 of these stones, then promptly sell some back in return gaining them both free gold AND free stones. Supposedly all the players who did this were banned, but I highly doubt that was the case. Next on the list was the recent "Chili Extravaganza" where players had found an area in the world which allowed one to harvest chili at an extremely fast rate without the hindrance of mobs or enemy faction. Due to the abnormal amount of chili in the area, people were actually able to make use of BOT programs to simply harvest single nodes of chili. Now you might think this isn't a big deal, but as it turned out, the chili resource had an incorrect selling price of around 4-5 silver versus it's intended price of 49 copper. Regardless of the price difference, I believe it was the fact people were able to use BOTs to harvest any resource unhindered for hours on end. Needless to say, some players had accumulated 1000's of gold over the course of a few days. Supposedly this is still under investigation, but one such guild to have participated in this event was apparently banned already. Yes, the entire guild.

I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. I just find it funny how easy they make it for them to do so, especially with the amount of data they provide to client side files. Anyhow, long story short, some players are claiming to not have been banned because they didn't use BOTs, even though the price was incorrect and so word is, they get to keep their gold.

What do you all think? Should players be able to keep gold or items they acquired through unintended purposes? Even though EVERY OTHER resource only sells for small amounts of copper instead of 4-5 silver? Sounds like an intentional exploit to me.

Perma ban? Temp ban? Pass GO and collect $200?
  1. Should players be allowed to retain gold or items acquired from obvious exploitation of game bugs?29 votes
    1. Permanent ban of account
      79.31%
    2. Temporary ban of account
      13.79%
    3. No punishment ( Keep gold / items acquired )
        6.90%
«134

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,324
    Option 4. Just remove the extra gold from players who took "advantage" of this situation and let them continue to play.

    After all, it is the Devs who left this in game, and 4 to 5 silver isn't all that obvious of an exploit to warrant a permaban.

    Outright cheats such as botting are in a far more serious category in my opinion.


    ScotWaanalkarionlogRhoklawOctagon7711Viper482MrMelGibsonBlaze_Rocker

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.

    The blame is on the publishers and the so called localized developers.
    Let's be honest:
    Neowiz has zero clue what they are doing.
    They do random changes on the live servers rather than testing them first.

    They remind me of this little Hearthstone fella if you know him.
    "I try this!"



    YashaXMrMelGibson
    Harbinger of Fools
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,070
    Wipe before launch, credits for some items could be returned to the account if need be, if you bought "land" or some such.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,726
    edited June 2018
    Temp ban & removal of profits. Perma ban if the exploiting was severe enough. AKA botting, speed hacking, etc... the shit that can't be claimed they didn't know they weren't allowed to do it.

    If it's some guy that harvested the resources a handful of times or accidentally duped one item due to the game messing up, the removal of said items should be enough though.
    Alpius

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • KellerKeller Member UncommonPosts: 602
    On a side note; some western mmorpgs had the same flaws; duping, teleporting, xp, character speed, etc. 

    Darkfall
    Mortal Online
    Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
    Rift Online
    Shadowbane
    Ultima Online
    Anarchy Online


    (Why call out Asian developers? )

    Just perma ban exploits and hacks. Accidental incidents that only happened once on an account with minor impact are cool by me. All with good communication off course. Don't go full Rockstar on your customers. Plus go after the makers and buyers of the (commercial) hacks. Guantanamo Bay hasn't been closed and I bet in Siberia they also can use an extra pair of hands.


    Hatefull
  • cochscochs Member UncommonPosts: 92
    It's more then just the audience they are making the games for.  The culture has a huge impact especially on the software development side.  Top down management long work hours.  S Korea is rather notorious for creating bad quality software.

    The funny thing is they have both some of the longest working hours of any country, and also some of the lowest productivity numbers.  You would think they would make the connection. 




  • NazloklessNazlokless Member UncommonPosts: 37
    IS this game in BETA/Early Release...Cos Beta is for catching bugs, whether its the seventh release or not if its beta is a test bed for the game
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    IS this game in BETA/Early Release...Cos Beta is for catching bugs, whether its the seventh release or not if its beta is a test bed for the game
    That's complete and utter nonsense.
    The game is what.. almost 7 years old?

    The Early Access label was only slapped on this because they knew they were releasing a shitty product.
    And some people seem to accept this as a valid excuse for bad publishing...
    IselinRhoklawViper482MightyUncleanRhygarth
    Harbinger of Fools
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,040
    Dakeru said:
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.



    I think there is something to that but on reddit and other places I have read that what some do is use non-gamer relatives or even stolen IDs if they're determined enough. There must be a lot of grandparents playing those games over there :)
    DakeruOctagon7711
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,408
    edited June 2018
    Iselin said:
    Dakeru said:
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.



    I think there is something to that but on reddit and other places I have read that what some do is use non-gamer relatives or even stolen IDs if they're determined enough. There must be a lot of grandparents playing those games over there :)
    I watch a lot of Korean drama and so far I've not seen that depicted although I must admit that it must be easy. However one thing upsets me when I watch them is this stamp chop they have when signing documents or creating bank accounts. They keep the bank book and the stamp together in a transparent case (so any thief can easily see what to steal when they look) and members of the family often steal it in the drama and use the stamp chop and falsify a signature easily. The stamp is supposed to be added security but I don't think it works. Many times even land deeds are taken with the stamp and people mortgage it in dramas. I sincerely hope this is not how easy it looks over there. 
    Post edited by cheyane on
    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,040
    cheyane said:
    Iselin said:
    Dakeru said:
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.



    I think there is something to that but on reddit and other places I have read that what some do is use non-gamer relatives or even stolen IDs if they're determined enough. There must be a lot of grandparents playing those games over there :)
    I watch a lot of Korean drama and so far I've not seen that depicted although I must admit that it must be easy. However one thing upsets me when I watch them is this stamp chop and they have when signing documents or creating bank accounts. They keep the bank book and the stamp together in a transparent case (so any thief can easily see what to steal when they look) and members of the family often steal it in the drama and use the stamp chop and falsify a signature easily. The stamp is supposed to be added security but I don't think it works. Many times even land deeds are taken with the stamp and people mortgage it in dramas. I sincerely hope this is not how easy it looks over there. 
    Yeah I don't really know, I'm just going by what I've read other places. I do know that some players that can't wait for the games to be released over here play some on Korean servers using a VPN and they would need access to an ID for most if not all of those games.

    I'm sure someone here who has done that, maybe @DMKano, knows more about it.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,540
    edited June 2018
    The issue is this - Korean game developer culture is - "trust the client".

    Korean game devs assume that the anti-hacking measuers will be handled via a 3rd party app like Xigncode etc... so the devs dont have security focus so much as they do have "just code on the game"

    Aside from that - the way I see hacking in MMos is in 2 categories:

    1. Server should never trust the client - easy to do server side checks and stop this (damage, ability cooldowns, inventory/item dupes and stat manipulation, etc...)

    2. Server has to trust the client - harder to stop - (player movement, player aiming, in general keyboard and mouse input coming from client)


    Category 1 must be checked server side no matter what the performance impact

    Category 2 - hard to verify server side 100% period, but can be easily done via "thresholds" - example if player movement exceeds Y between points A and B - flag/DC/ban or take whatever action.

    "flying or super jumping" - can be done by Z axis checks etc....

    Finally the most important thing in the end is WHAT is done after the hacking incidents - are the items removed from the economy, are the users banned etc.... To be able to do any of this - companies must have solid database logging and reporting - which large game devs do have but smaller game devs usually dont 


    Finally - game devs dont treat all hacking the same - there is a severity assigned based on:

    1. In game-exploit or 3rd party tool exploit
    2. Was it something user did for only 5min, 1 hour or many hours - duration
    3. First time offender or repeat offender 
    4. Analyze user's inventory - was there massive gold/currency gain due to exploit, was there massive item/gold trading to other accounts 
    etc...

    Based on the above criteria user accounts are given "scores" and then you see where the user lands on the pre-determined "hacking score" sheet and then you issue temp bans (various duration based on severity) or permanent bans for those that have exceeded the "point of no return" score

    This is how Blizzard, Trion, NCSoft, ZoS etc.. - companies with actual analytics and business intelligence teams do it

    A lot of the smaller companies like - NeoWiz don't have this - when shit goes down - they get their DBAs to sit and manually pull database logs and do manual queries to find stuff - it sucks for those guys because they don't have the proper tools nor staff, so those DBAs get totally screwed as they are probably working ridiculous hours to deal with the exploits/hacks
    Post edited by DMKano on
    RhoklawAzaron_NightbladecraftseekerOctagon7711
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,827
    Iselin said:
    cheyane said:
    Iselin said:
    Dakeru said:
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.



    I think there is something to that but on reddit and other places I have read that what some do is use non-gamer relatives or even stolen IDs if they're determined enough. There must be a lot of grandparents playing those games over there :)
    I watch a lot of Korean drama and so far I've not seen that depicted although I must admit that it must be easy. However one thing upsets me when I watch them is this stamp chop and they have when signing documents or creating bank accounts. They keep the bank book and the stamp together in a transparent case (so any thief can easily see what to steal when they look) and members of the family often steal it in the drama and use the stamp chop and falsify a signature easily. The stamp is supposed to be added security but I don't think it works. Many times even land deeds are taken with the stamp and people mortgage it in dramas. I sincerely hope this is not how easy it looks over there. 
    Yeah I don't really know, I'm just going by what I've read other places. I do know that some players that can't wait for the games to be released over here play some on Korean servers using a VPN and they would need access to an ID for most if not all of those games.

    I'm sure someone here who has done that, maybe @DMKano, knows more about it.
    Tons of people sell access to their ID for a (relatively) small fee. It is rare to use the same paid ID for more than one game but it does happen. 

    On another note. Many places in Korea require an ID as well as fingerprint scan to enter an establishment and/or play games. The shutdown law was put in place to combat addiction and beyond just a curfew on gaming sessions, they also finger print scan and ID and even require a person to have a high school diploma to enter a business and play games.   
    IselinKyleranTorvalLokeroMrMelGibson

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,540
    Iselin said:
    cheyane said:
    Iselin said:
    Dakeru said:
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.



    I think there is something to that but on reddit and other places I have read that what some do is use non-gamer relatives or even stolen IDs if they're determined enough. There must be a lot of grandparents playing those games over there :)
    I watch a lot of Korean drama and so far I've not seen that depicted although I must admit that it must be easy. However one thing upsets me when I watch them is this stamp chop and they have when signing documents or creating bank accounts. They keep the bank book and the stamp together in a transparent case (so any thief can easily see what to steal when they look) and members of the family often steal it in the drama and use the stamp chop and falsify a signature easily. The stamp is supposed to be added security but I don't think it works. Many times even land deeds are taken with the stamp and people mortgage it in dramas. I sincerely hope this is not how easy it looks over there. 
    Yeah I don't really know, I'm just going by what I've read other places. I do know that some players that can't wait for the games to be released over here play some on Korean servers using a VPN and they would need access to an ID for most if not all of those games.

    I'm sure someone here who has done that, maybe @DMKano, knows more about it.

    There are companies in Korea where people "sell" their KSSNs to be used for VPN/gaming purposes. So the KSSNs are not really stolen, but willingly "rented" out for money - which is illegal but it is done regardless.
    DakeruIselinKyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,324
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    cheyane said:
    Iselin said:
    Dakeru said:
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.



    I think there is something to that but on reddit and other places I have read that what some do is use non-gamer relatives or even stolen IDs if they're determined enough. There must be a lot of grandparents playing those games over there :)
    I watch a lot of Korean drama and so far I've not seen that depicted although I must admit that it must be easy. However one thing upsets me when I watch them is this stamp chop and they have when signing documents or creating bank accounts. They keep the bank book and the stamp together in a transparent case (so any thief can easily see what to steal when they look) and members of the family often steal it in the drama and use the stamp chop and falsify a signature easily. The stamp is supposed to be added security but I don't think it works. Many times even land deeds are taken with the stamp and people mortgage it in dramas. I sincerely hope this is not how easy it looks over there. 
    Yeah I don't really know, I'm just going by what I've read other places. I do know that some players that can't wait for the games to be released over here play some on Korean servers using a VPN and they would need access to an ID for most if not all of those games.

    I'm sure someone here who has done that, maybe @DMKano, knows more about it.

    There are companies in Korea where people "sell" their KSSNs to be used for VPN/gaming purposes. So the KSSNs are not really stolen, but willingly "rented" out for money - which is illegal but it is done regardless.
    Where theres is something to hack, there is always someone figuring a way to do it.




    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    Dakeru said:
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.

    The blame is on the publishers and the so called localized developers.
    Let's be honest:
    Neowiz has zero clue what they are doing.
    They do random changes on the live servers rather than testing them first.

    They remind me of this little Hearthstone fella if you know him.
    "I try this!"



    People keep saying this but it makes little sense. Considering how easy it is for an American to get ahold of a Korean account to play k(insert game initials) it's a million times easier for an actual korean to do so should their own account get banned.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,324
    Sephiroso said:
    Dakeru said:
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.

    The blame is on the publishers and the so called localized developers.
    Let's be honest:
    Neowiz has zero clue what they are doing.
    They do random changes on the live servers rather than testing them first.

    They remind me of this little Hearthstone fella if you know him.
    "I try this!"



    People keep saying this but it makes little sense. Considering how easy it is for an American to get ahold of a Korean account to play k(insert game initials) it's a million times easier for an actual korean to do so should their own account get banned.
    Its possible since game accounts are supposed to be tied to an official govt ID number it might be an actual crime for a Korean national to do so. 

    No issue if you live outside of Korea, but if inside might not be worth messing with.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,536
    I have a little news for you,the supposed kingpin..Blizzard fails more than enough to not label this as an Asian only problem.

    Their Cataclysym debacle had Blizzard shut down the forums to keep all the problems quiet and claimed forums were down for other reasons.Same ordeal with map glitches.
    "client side files"how about almost every last developer uploads files for the next expansion BEFORE the expansion is released so that the hackers can get first hand information ,often IMPORTANT information before the rest of the legit players.

    There are certain tropes that belong to Asian games however the gap has narrowed,NA developers are every bit as guilty when comes to polish and depth and ideas that make sense.
    How can you get a more SLOPPY game design than crowd funding,shortage of funds and not knowing exactly how much money you have to work with and proven fact is the nominal CF target goals have NEVER been enough.
    You can't hire the proper team to build a game nor can you aim for depth or AAA quality if you don't have the immediate budget.Perfect example is a NA developer building Star Citizen,they have the money and still struggle badly because the design was a sloppy non polished ,lack of direction type design ,so they just wing it with target goals and ship sales.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    edited June 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Sephiroso said:
    Dakeru said:
    Rhoklaw said:


    I'm not sure why or how Korean developers NEVER seem to learn or take into consideration the craftiness of online gamers when it comes to cheating. 
    Korean developers create games for the Korean audience.
    In Korea you create your account with your real ID and not some random email.
    You will think twice about cheating when you know that you won't be able to recreate your account when they catch you.

    The blame is on the publishers and the so called localized developers.
    Let's be honest:
    Neowiz has zero clue what they are doing.
    They do random changes on the live servers rather than testing them first.

    They remind me of this little Hearthstone fella if you know him.
    "I try this!"



    People keep saying this but it makes little sense. Considering how easy it is for an American to get ahold of a Korean account to play k(insert game initials) it's a million times easier for an actual korean to do so should their own account get banned.
    Its possible since game accounts are supposed to be tied to an official govt ID number it might be an actual crime for a Korean national to do so. 

    No issue if you live outside of Korea, but if inside might not be worth messing with.

    I'm sure it is but it's practically an impossible to enforce crime. Especially since they can just get the information from family members so easily. Not likely that their parents are gonna be gaming or grand parents so they won't care to give it up to their son/daughter so they can play their game.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,560
    Wizardry said:
    I have a little news for you,the supposed kingpin..Blizzard fails more than enough to not label this as an Asian only problem.

    Their Cataclysym debacle had Blizzard shut down the forums to keep all the problems quiet and claimed forums were down for other reasons.Same ordeal with map glitches.
    "client side files"how about almost every last developer uploads files for the next expansion BEFORE the expansion is released so that the hackers can get first hand information ,often IMPORTANT information before the rest of the legit players.

    There are certain tropes that belong to Asian games however the gap has narrowed,NA developers are every bit as guilty when comes to polish and depth and ideas that make sense.
    How can you get a more SLOPPY game design than crowd funding,shortage of funds and not knowing exactly how much money you have to work with and proven fact is the nominal CF target goals have NEVER been enough.
    You can't hire the proper team to build a game nor can you aim for depth or AAA quality if you don't have the immediate budget.Perfect example is a NA developer building Star Citizen,they have the money and still struggle badly because the design was a sloppy non polished ,lack of direction type design ,so they just wing it with target goals and ship sales.


    Pretty much every Korean game published in the past 4 years has been a B2P / F2P PvP focused + cash shop P2W shit storm.

    ArcheAge
    Black Desert Online
    Revelation Online
    Bless Online

    Every single one of these games couldn't be more alike in that fashion. Sure, they have varying game features, but at the core of each and every one of these games is the same BS cash grab with the same PvP stat / gear gap only fair if everyone or no one swipes their CC.
    Mikeha

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    Wizardry said:
    I have a little news for you,the supposed kingpin..Blizzard fails more than enough to not label this as an Asian only problem.

    Their Cataclysym debacle had Blizzard shut down the forums to keep all the problems quiet and claimed forums were down for other reasons.Same ordeal with map glitches.
    "client side files"how about almost every last developer uploads files for the next expansion BEFORE the expansion is released so that the hackers can get first hand information ,often IMPORTANT information before the rest of the legit players.




    Lol the false equivalency is real. You're comparing file snoopers finding files with achievement titles/descriptions, mount/pet/boss/dungeons names and potentially maps, and etc to being able to edit game files so you can fly. Really man?

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,827
    Rhoklaw said:
    Wizardry said:
    I have a little news for you,the supposed kingpin..Blizzard fails more than enough to not label this as an Asian only problem.

    Their Cataclysym debacle had Blizzard shut down the forums to keep all the problems quiet and claimed forums were down for other reasons.Same ordeal with map glitches.
    "client side files"how about almost every last developer uploads files for the next expansion BEFORE the expansion is released so that the hackers can get first hand information ,often IMPORTANT information before the rest of the legit players.

    There are certain tropes that belong to Asian games however the gap has narrowed,NA developers are every bit as guilty when comes to polish and depth and ideas that make sense.
    How can you get a more SLOPPY game design than crowd funding,shortage of funds and not knowing exactly how much money you have to work with and proven fact is the nominal CF target goals have NEVER been enough.
    You can't hire the proper team to build a game nor can you aim for depth or AAA quality if you don't have the immediate budget.Perfect example is a NA developer building Star Citizen,they have the money and still struggle badly because the design was a sloppy non polished ,lack of direction type design ,so they just wing it with target goals and ship sales.


    Pretty much every Korean game published in the past 4 years has been a B2P / F2P PvP focused + cash shop P2W shit storm.


    Revelation Online
    In all fairness, Revelation Online is not Korean =)
    rojoArcueidTorvalMrMelGibsonZombieCat

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,067
    Where's our new western AAA MMOs?
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,408
    Rhoklaw said:
    Wizardry said:
    I have a little news for you,the supposed kingpin..Blizzard fails more than enough to not label this as an Asian only problem.

    Their Cataclysym debacle had Blizzard shut down the forums to keep all the problems quiet and claimed forums were down for other reasons.Same ordeal with map glitches.
    "client side files"how about almost every last developer uploads files for the next expansion BEFORE the expansion is released so that the hackers can get first hand information ,often IMPORTANT information before the rest of the legit players.

    There are certain tropes that belong to Asian games however the gap has narrowed,NA developers are every bit as guilty when comes to polish and depth and ideas that make sense.
    How can you get a more SLOPPY game design than crowd funding,shortage of funds and not knowing exactly how much money you have to work with and proven fact is the nominal CF target goals have NEVER been enough.
    You can't hire the proper team to build a game nor can you aim for depth or AAA quality if you don't have the immediate budget.Perfect example is a NA developer building Star Citizen,they have the money and still struggle badly because the design was a sloppy non polished ,lack of direction type design ,so they just wing it with target goals and ship sales.


    Pretty much every Korean game published in the past 4 years has been a B2P / F2P PvP focused + cash shop P2W shit storm.


    Revelation Online
    In all fairness, Revelation Online is not Korean =)
    Most folk don't know the difference between Korean and Chinese they just dump everything Asian in one basket.
    TorvalMrMelGibsonIselin
    image
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,560
    cheyane said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Wizardry said:
    I have a little news for you,the supposed kingpin..Blizzard fails more than enough to not label this as an Asian only problem.

    Their Cataclysym debacle had Blizzard shut down the forums to keep all the problems quiet and claimed forums were down for other reasons.Same ordeal with map glitches.
    "client side files"how about almost every last developer uploads files for the next expansion BEFORE the expansion is released so that the hackers can get first hand information ,often IMPORTANT information before the rest of the legit players.

    There are certain tropes that belong to Asian games however the gap has narrowed,NA developers are every bit as guilty when comes to polish and depth and ideas that make sense.
    How can you get a more SLOPPY game design than crowd funding,shortage of funds and not knowing exactly how much money you have to work with and proven fact is the nominal CF target goals have NEVER been enough.
    You can't hire the proper team to build a game nor can you aim for depth or AAA quality if you don't have the immediate budget.Perfect example is a NA developer building Star Citizen,they have the money and still struggle badly because the design was a sloppy non polished ,lack of direction type design ,so they just wing it with target goals and ship sales.


    Pretty much every Korean game published in the past 4 years has been a B2P / F2P PvP focused + cash shop P2W shit storm.


    Revelation Online
    In all fairness, Revelation Online is not Korean =)
    Most folk don't know the difference between Korean and Chinese they just dump everything Asian in one basket.
    Well, I apologize for my rude generalization. It would seem it doesn't matter which country designs it because they are all lacking in the same manner. I guess it says something when games all have the same glaring deficiencies. In light of that minor detail, at least it's safe to say FFXIV is a shining example of game development done right, even though it was initially a disaster in it's own right. However, the games I've listed have no hope of success in that regard.

    I would also like to point out that while a lot of western MMOs have failed to live up to the standards that we gamers would expect. I don't believe I'm being biased when I say it's apparent that "Asian" game developers do not have gamers interest in the same boat as their own.

Sign In or Register to comment.