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YouTuber and his family gets death threats because he criticized Star Citizen in a video.

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Comments

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    Scot said:
    This is only one guy, the thread does rather indicate he received threats form many people. You are always going to get nutters, SC is no different.
    The difference is that they are in much higher concentration, here.  It's a noted phenomenon.  That this happens at all over some comments about a video game is deplorable, and it's not something we have to shrug and go 'oh well, it's the world we live in' over.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,520
    Death Threats are serious but they can happen with fans of ANY game really.
    KyleranBabuinix[Deleted User]
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,029
    fs23otm said:
    Anonymity should go away... internet and games should require an ID number of some kind that follows you around...


    All you need to do is follow Korea's system.  They seem to have a handle on this.  Never understood why the West didn't follow suit.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,329
    I said it once and i'll say it again. The scam behind this game has gotten so out of hand that when the game fails miserably, some people who spent big money on it will kill themselves when they realize how Chris Rob'em parted the fools and their money.

    Right now these specific group of people are threatening others because the game hasn't "failed". They will turn on themselves when they don't have a CIG trash can to throw money on anymore.
    I think you're being overly optimistic if you think they'll stop at self-harm.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,609
    Gorwe said:
    Which Korea and how does it work?
    South Korea, known for especially with MMO's requiring proper ID's to create the accounts you use to play them. If the west was to tie an identity behind one account, it would trump anonymity on cases people would face consequences for.

    BUT, this would not fix this specific problem, because we are talking about social media:


    So unless you take the anonymity of that person it'd be easier when reported to get them to face consequences, they'll never get defeated, it's just like internet trolling, give them this sort of attention it only motivates them further.
    MrMelGibson
  • GanksinatraGanksinatra Member UncommonPosts: 455
    Wait, you mean to tell me that someone who would spend $28,000 on pixels might be mentally unhinged?

    The hell you say!

    I want this game to be great, but it's becoming more and more obvious that this is a scam. It is on target to be the most expensive videogame of all time (needs another 80 million or so, but I guarantee you, these cult members will continue to shovel cash into this bottomless pit), but it is the very epitome of "feature creep", so much so that I see that being the reason it finally implodes in on itself like a dying star.

    When one comes to this reality after realizing they have paid that much money for vaporware, the obvious reaction would be anger at anyone pointing it out.

    Shame, because the game SOUNDS great in theory. It quite clearly is not in practice.
    DakeruGinaz
  • CoticCotic Member UncommonPosts: 268
    It's disturbing just how common these threats are, which should in no way detract from how distasteful it would be to receive a very graphic depiction of what some weirdo claims they would do your family.

    I was very surprised at the amount of Star Citizen fans trying to protect the game and the community's image by claiming it was just one bad apple (so not true) or that it wasn't even a Star Citizen fan who had done it.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,722
    Cotic said:
    It's disturbing just how common these threats are, which should in no way detract from how distasteful it would be to receive a very graphic depiction of what some weirdo claims they would do your family.

    I was very surprised at the amount of Star Citizen fans trying to protect the game and the community's image by claiming it was just one bad apple (so not true) or that it wasn't even a Star Citizen fan who had done it.
    Even if it was 10 SC backers who did this it is disingenuous to try and paint the entire community or besmirch the game itself for the behavior of the crazies.

    The fans defense of their reputation is understandable in this scenario and I'm guessing none of them is taking the position that the death threats were warranted in any way.




    MaxBacon[Deleted User]

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,609
    Cotic said:
    I was very surprised at the amount of Star Citizen fans trying to protect the game and the community's image by claiming it was just one bad apple (so not true) or that it wasn't even a Star Citizen fan who had done it.
    That happened because after this death threat, the SC community and even the developers were attacked and put under some sort of guilt-trip like this community would ever support or endorse this sort of despicable behavior.

    As it is understandable that the guy overreacted seeing the threat, it also is understandable that people responded back to this degree of demonization for actions of individuals, being put on the back of everyone else for something they would condemn as well and stand no control of, as @Kyleran also stated.
  • CoticCotic Member UncommonPosts: 268
    Kyleran said:
    Cotic said:
    It's disturbing just how common these threats are, which should in no way detract from how distasteful it would be to receive a very graphic depiction of what some weirdo claims they would do your family.

    I was very surprised at the amount of Star Citizen fans trying to protect the game and the community's image by claiming it was just one bad apple (so not true) or that it wasn't even a Star Citizen fan who had done it.
    Even if it was 10 SC backers who did this it is disingenuous to try and paint the entire community or besmirch the game itself for the behavior of the crazies.

    The fans defense of their reputation is understandable in this scenario and I'm guessing none of them is taking the position that the death threats were warranted in any way.

    What's disingenuous is to take away from what is really going on by trying to be victims as well.

    Of course a person or persons actions does not speak for the whole community but how the community responds to what that person or persons did does reflect on them.


    Cazriel
  • RhomsRhoms Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Cotic said:
    It's disturbing just how common these threats are, which should in no way detract from how distasteful it would be to receive a very graphic depiction of what some weirdo claims they would do your family.

    I was very surprised at the amount of Star Citizen fans trying to protect the game and the community's image by claiming it was just one bad apple (so not true) or that it wasn't even a Star Citizen fan who had done it.
    What percentage of the general population is bonkers?  1/100?  5/100?  What percentage of the general population are just flat out malevolent?  How many SC backers are there?  Better yet, how many general fans of the game are there?  Now in chuck a computer and some anonymity and watch what has and will eventually happen.  Do these crazy and/or malicious folks speak for you and your hobby? 

    I don't care what group, population, or hobby there is.  Hell, I'm not even a fan of this game.  Crazy people will be crazy.  Don't get my wrong, I want to be clear that think this behavior is awful.  However, these folks damn sure don't speak for me, the genre, the game, or my hobbies, and it's completely reasonable for people to point this out.
    Kyleran

    Current game: Pillars of Eternity

    Played: UO, AC, Eve, Fallen Earth, Aion, GW, GW2 

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,609
    edited June 2018
    Cotic said:
    What's disingenuous is to take away from what is really going on by trying to be victims as well.

    Of course a person or persons actions does not speak for the whole community but how the community responds to what that person or persons did does reflect on them.
    This is not truthful now, when that youtuber got those threats the thing that he did was went on social media, tag the game and go "Fuck you Community! Fuck you CIG!", so and I was talking this yesterday with others people felt frustrated that something that has nothing to do with us was being put on our backs, considering that unjust.

    That's why those reactions happened, and not unreasonably so, the youtuber later also apologized for the way he overreacted at first.
    GorweKyleran[Deleted User]
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,499
    His reaction to the threats were personal. They involved his daughter so I would expect people would be able to empathise. The people involved with CIG and the fans of the game are not responsible for this lunatic but your reaction must also be tempered. You should as people realise what a horror it is to have your daughter threatened in this graphic way, as a mother let me tell you if you threaten me I would not be that upset as I would be if you threatened my child.

    The response should reflect both empathy and understanding and if possible to completely disassociate yourselves from this lunatic fan. Of course people being people were mad at him and said it was his fault for the false things he suggested in the video. That is not the correct response but people are uncontrollable and I hope that the people at CIG at least behaved properly. I do not expect much from the fans of the game because there are a lot of extreme views about this game and a lot of passionate bordering on crazy fans out there.
    Chamber of Chains
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    Rhoms said:
    Cotic said:
    It's disturbing just how common these threats are, which should in no way detract from how distasteful it would be to receive a very graphic depiction of what some weirdo claims they would do your family.

    I was very surprised at the amount of Star Citizen fans trying to protect the game and the community's image by claiming it was just one bad apple (so not true) or that it wasn't even a Star Citizen fan who had done it.
    What percentage of the general population is bonkers?  1/100?  5/100?  What percentage of the general population are just flat out malevolent?  How many SC backers are there?  Better yet, how many general fans of the game are there?  Now in chuck a computer and some anonymity and watch what has and will eventually happen.  Do these crazy and/or malicious folks speak for you and your hobby? 

    I don't care what group, population, or hobby there is.  Hell, I'm not even a fan of this game.  Crazy people will be crazy.  Don't get my wrong, I want to be clear that think this behavior is awful.  However, these folks damn sure don't speak for me, the genre, the game, or my hobbies, and it's completely reasonable for people to point this out.
    "What percentage of the general population are just flat out malevolent?"

    People tend not to be flat out malevolent but to go through bad periods. Some are, but I'd guess it's much, much less than 1/100. 1/100 is about the number of schizophrenics in the general population, however schizophrenics are mainly nonviolent. They also tend not to have disposable income to spend on something like Star Citizen.

    I believe the video author showed admirable restraint; it's something you'd have to be a parent to understand.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 18,666
    Scot said:
    This is only one guy, the thread does rather indicate he received threats form many people. You are always going to get nutters, SC is no different.
    The difference is that they are in much higher concentration, here.  It's a noted phenomenon.  That this happens at all over some comments about a video game is deplorable, and it's not something we have to shrug and go 'oh well, it's the world we live in' over.
    Fair enough, but I always have to question the "video response" it is grandstanding no matter what you do it for. Just report them to SC, You tube, whoever.
    PhaserlightErillionKyleranNildenMaxBacon[Deleted User]laserit
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,523
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    This is only one guy, the thread does rather indicate he received threats form many people. You are always going to get nutters, SC is no different.
    The difference is that they are in much higher concentration, here.  It's a noted phenomenon.  That this happens at all over some comments about a video game is deplorable, and it's not something we have to shrug and go 'oh well, it's the world we live in' over.
    Fair enough, but I always have to question the "video response" it is grandstanding no matter what you do it for. Just report them to SC, You tube, whoever.
    While I agree that it's grandstanding, I would never make a video about getting death threats because it publicly acknowledges the troll. Watching this guys video I wondered if he was new to the internet.

    Report it to the proper authorities. Then ignore them, don't give them a spotlight.
    MaxBacon[Deleted User]ScotKyleranCazriel

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited June 2018
    fs23otm said:
    Anonymity should go away... internet and games should require an ID number of some kind that follows you around...


    All you need to do is follow Korea's system.  They seem to have a handle on this.  Never understood why the West didn't follow suit.
    I can hear the fringe elements screaming "Mark of the Beast!  Mark of the Beast!" at the mere hint of it.
    Nebilim

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited June 2018
    Nilden said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    This is only one guy, the thread does rather indicate he received threats form many people. You are always going to get nutters, SC is no different.
    The difference is that they are in much higher concentration, here.  It's a noted phenomenon.  That this happens at all over some comments about a video game is deplorable, and it's not something we have to shrug and go 'oh well, it's the world we live in' over.
    Fair enough, but I always have to question the "video response" it is grandstanding no matter what you do it for. Just report them to SC, You tube, whoever.
    While I agree that it's grandstanding, I would never make a video about getting death threats because it publicly acknowledges the troll. Watching this guys video I wondered if he was new to the internet.

    Report it to the proper authorities. Then ignore them, don't give them a spotlight.
    For normal trolling, I would agree.  For death threats, if you get called out for making them, you are generally considered immature, ignorant, and petty, a little looney, or all of the above.  None of which is an enjoyable social label.  I'm all for calling those folks out so we can slap the appropriate label on them.

    If the guy had just made some dumb jokes at this guy's expense, that's a different situation.  Social ostracization is a powerful tool.

    The key is making sure his real life friends stumble upon it and connect the dots.  They start making jokes about the guy to his face, he feels embarrassed for ever doing it.

    image
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,523
    Nilden said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    This is only one guy, the thread does rather indicate he received threats form many people. You are always going to get nutters, SC is no different.
    The difference is that they are in much higher concentration, here.  It's a noted phenomenon.  That this happens at all over some comments about a video game is deplorable, and it's not something we have to shrug and go 'oh well, it's the world we live in' over.
    Fair enough, but I always have to question the "video response" it is grandstanding no matter what you do it for. Just report them to SC, You tube, whoever.
    While I agree that it's grandstanding, I would never make a video about getting death threats because it publicly acknowledges the troll. Watching this guys video I wondered if he was new to the internet.

    Report it to the proper authorities. Then ignore them, don't give them a spotlight.
    For normal trolling, I would agree.  For death threats, if you get called out for making them, you are generally considered immature, ignorant, and petty, a little looney, or all of the above.  None of which is an enjoyable social label.  I'm all for calling those folks out so we can slap the appropriate label on them.

    If the guy had just made some dumb jokes at this guy's expense, that's a different situation.  Social ostracization is a powerful tool.

    The key is making sure his real life friends stumble upon it and connect the dots.  They start making jokes about the guy to his face, he feels embarrassed for ever doing it.
    Social ostracization is not happening here. Nobody specific is being called out.
    Scot

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

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  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    Nyctelios said:
    Just a FYI: Sid Alpha is known for flipping his content from game critique to drama.

    I'm not justifying this behavior or implying he is lying.

    But, when anything happens on his channel, I take it with a grain of salt. When big channels got strike (Totalbiscuit) or were actually sued (Jimquisition), his channel misteriously passed similar stuff, in the same time window.

    After watching many videos where he address youtube dramas (in a row) where he says "I hate to comment on those things and I don't like to fuel those dramas" yet he kept commenting on those things and fueling those dramas I stop giving him my time and attention.

    Threats, of any kind, are an act of cowardice. And publicly acknowledging them just give the harassers one small victory. Do the proper reports and avoid interaction.
    I agree with not fueling drama, but I actually have a different takeaway here:

    Allow me to be extremely cynical for a moment.  Threatening someone and his family with harm is illegal behavior intended to provoke a desired change; here the intent of the perpetrator isn't to stir up drama but to cow a critic into submission.  This works best if nobody else knows about the threat.  It isn't a very smart thing to do, but most criminal behavior isn't.

    I'm glad Sid Alpha is shining a spotlight on this illegal behavior surrounding the game; that's something I want to know about, and in this case it is taking the harasser's victory away (who I hope is arrested).

    If this were "trolling", let's say, then I would agree with your post.

    He could have dealt with it silently but if someone were to threaten my child harm I would want to have a few words with them to say the least, which the author did in his video, while also taking proper precautions.
    [Deleted User]MadFrenchie

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Nilden said:
    Nilden said:
    Scot said:
    Scot said:
    This is only one guy, the thread does rather indicate he received threats form many people. You are always going to get nutters, SC is no different.
    The difference is that they are in much higher concentration, here.  It's a noted phenomenon.  That this happens at all over some comments about a video game is deplorable, and it's not something we have to shrug and go 'oh well, it's the world we live in' over.
    Fair enough, but I always have to question the "video response" it is grandstanding no matter what you do it for. Just report them to SC, You tube, whoever.
    While I agree that it's grandstanding, I would never make a video about getting death threats because it publicly acknowledges the troll. Watching this guys video I wondered if he was new to the internet.

    Report it to the proper authorities. Then ignore them, don't give them a spotlight.
    For normal trolling, I would agree.  For death threats, if you get called out for making them, you are generally considered immature, ignorant, and petty, a little looney, or all of the above.  None of which is an enjoyable social label.  I'm all for calling those folks out so we can slap the appropriate label on them.

    If the guy had just made some dumb jokes at this guy's expense, that's a different situation.  Social ostracization is a powerful tool.

    The key is making sure his real life friends stumble upon it and connect the dots.  They start making jokes about the guy to his face, he feels embarrassed for ever doing it.
    Social ostracization is not happening here. Nobody specific is being called out.
    That's unfortunate.  His video likely won't amount to a hill of beans in preventing the person from doing it again in the future.
    Scot

    image
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,996
    I don't know if he reported this to the authorities and actually got a police report for it.  One thing though if something were to happen the first thing people would say why didn't you tell anyone about it?  Perhaps the guy threatens people a lot, if so it's good to have a public record of it for others to see.  As has been shown in the media recently, victims who don't make a big noise any and every way they can usually means the bad guys have a green light to keep doing what they do.
    Phaserlight

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    edited June 2018
    Nilden said:

    Social ostracization is not happening here. Nobody specific is being called out.
    That's unfortunate.  His video likely won't amount to a hill of beans in preventing the person from doing it again in the future.
    We don't know that; Sid Alpha may not have known the harasser's identity, but IP addresses are a thing.  The mail server admin should have that information, which police can obtain with proper cause.

    Also, as @Octagon7711 points out, making some noise in a situation like this is in fact the right thing to do.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,609
    edited June 2018
    To me, give the people who have this behavior all that attention by making that entire video about it, is exactly what they want.

    When you give someone like that a whole public drama about it, you just give them the feeling that they managed to impact you, so to me, this only makes it more likely to both that person to do it again, and possibly even increases the likeness of others to follow (because when all that attention is given to it, those who seek it and are capable of this, just will do so).

    Just this example:


    When he gives that guy the whole public exposure, to me he is just feeding a troll, in this specific one I linked, I think you would agree this is a troll who doesn't deserve that sort of attention, yet being reported for it instead.

    So I will disagree with @Phaserlight and @Octagon7711, making noise and give that behavior all that attention, to me, would motivate it further, if they are capable to do that on the first place they sure won't care about being publicly condemned for it.
    Nilden[Deleted User]
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    MaxBacon said:
    To me, give the people who have this behavior all that attention by making that entire video about it, is exactly what they want.

    When you give someone like that a whole public drama about it, you just give them the feeling that they managed to impact you, so to me, this only makes it more likely to both that person to do it again, and possibly even increases the likeness of others to follow (because when all that attention is given to it, those who seek it and are capable of this, just will do so).

    Just this example:


    When he gives that guy the whole public exposure, to me he is just feeding a troll, in this specific one I linked, I think you would agree this is a troll who doesn't deserve that sort of attention, yet being reported for it instead.



    There is a very big difference between what you posted and making a detailed, credible threat against someone. 

    Only Sid Alpha knows as he didn't show the email (good move), but the way he described it made it seem the latter.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

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