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The end game simply isn't there, fact or fiction?

2

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  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,364
    It actually kind of makes sense that they would have some content disabled until after the pre release. I still want the game, even with all this rampant negativity. I feel like this is one of those snowballs that happen in gaming occasionally where everything gets blown the hell out of proportion because of how many people are freaking out at one time.
    Octagon7711
  • simmihisimmihi Member UncommonPosts: 705
    edited May 2018
    DXSins said:
    So has steam blocked them from listing the base game on the store page? Sign on how many refunds are actually being sent through?


    You see your servers getting full during head start, the big swarm of people ready to devour your content. Then, suddenly, you get an idea. Soon after that, something magical happens: the cheaper base game "does not show up properly" but the more expensive founder packs can be purchased just fine.... because what's 10 bucks more, for those who planned their time in order to play on the 30th? Right?
    Nyctelios
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,270
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Well even all that missing content could be made up with other gameplay, the problem is that as far as we know there is no other gameplay.
    I think it's a strange notion that people are looking for other gameplay when the game is 3 days out?  End game content is a problem already? most people aren't even mid 20s yet.  I'm in my early 30s, and I've run back and forth completing content, so most of the areas I'm running around in are low to mid 20s for hunting quests, there's a lot less there than when I was in other areas.  In the 30+ area, there were hardly any people last night. 
    Well the rushers apparently got to the end by forgoing sleep and peeing in cans, but you will likely find yourself in similar shoes very soon unless you divert to tame the 600 animals or something.

    ;)
    Haha  Well I just rolled other characters.  I wish I could tame to my hearts content but taming scrolls are a pain to craft. 



  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Well even all that missing content could be made up with other gameplay, the problem is that as far as we know there is no other gameplay.
    I think it's a strange notion that people are looking for other gameplay when the game is 3 days out?  End game content is a problem already? most people aren't even mid 20s yet.  I'm in my early 30s, and I've run back and forth completing content, so most of the areas I'm running around in are low to mid 20s for hunting quests, there's a lot less there than when I was in other areas.  In the 30+ area, there were hardly any people last night. 
    Well the rushers apparently got to the end by forgoing sleep and peeing in cans, but you will likely find yourself in similar shoes very soon unless you divert to tame the 600 animals or something.

    ;)
    Haha  Well I just rolled other characters.  I wish I could tame to my hearts content but taming scrolls are a pain to craft. 
    Just gotta go do the mus...err i mean turban grind that all 33000 players are doing right now for mats.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,211
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    Well even all that missing content could be made up with other gameplay, the problem is that as far as we know there is no other gameplay.
    I think it's a strange notion that people are looking for other gameplay when the game is 3 days out?  End game content is a problem already? most people aren't even mid 20s yet.  I'm in my early 30s, and I've run back and forth completing content, so most of the areas I'm running around in are low to mid 20s for hunting quests, there's a lot less there than when I was in other areas.  In the 30+ area, there were hardly any people last night. 
    Well the rushers apparently got to the end by forgoing sleep and peeing in cans, but you will likely find yourself in similar shoes very soon unless you divert to tame the 600 animals or something.

    ;)
    What we are seeing here is an exacerbated version of what you get in any MMO release, it is just coming sooner. But to a certain extent that is going to happen when both Bless and the players treat this as if it is the actual launch, not early access and a second rate EA at that.

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  • hikaru77hikaru77 Member UncommonPosts: 1,122
    So, what part of Early Access people don't understand?. 
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    hikaru77 said:
    So, what part of Early Access people don't understand?. 
    The part where all the missing content is done but not in the game because reasons.
    Kyleran

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    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    Sephiroso said:
    hikaru77 said:
    So, what part of Early Access people don't understand?. 
    The part where all the missing content is done but not in the game because regions.
    Fixed it for you.
    Kyleranmaskedweasel
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    Orinori said:
    Sephiroso said:
    hikaru77 said:
    So, what part of Early Access people don't understand?. 
    The part where all the missing content is done but not in the game because regions.
    Fixed it for you.
    change of region = finished content is withheld makes total sense.

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    Sephiroso said:
    Orinori said:
    Sephiroso said:
    hikaru77 said:
    So, what part of Early Access people don't understand?. 
    The part where all the missing content is done but not in the game because regions.
    Fixed it for you.
    change of region = finished content is withheld makes total sense.
    Correct.
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    Oh man, i just found this shocking interview with one of the Bless devs. It's eye opening.



    marganculosEponyxDamorXodicDMKanoJacobinNildenRhoklaw

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,580
    Sephiroso said:
    Orinori said:
    Sephiroso said:
    hikaru77 said:
    So, what part of Early Access people don't understand?. 
    The part where all the missing content is done but not in the game because regions.
    Fixed it for you.
    change of region = finished content is withheld makes total sense.
    Asian games have almost always released versions in the west several behind their eastern counterparts.

    Localisation is the usual excuse, but I'm not so sure. 

    How hard can it really be to hire folks to do Korean to other language translation, especially English? 

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    edited May 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Sephiroso said:
    Orinori said:
    Sephiroso said:
    hikaru77 said:
    So, what part of Early Access people don't understand?. 
    The part where all the missing content is done but not in the game because regions.
    Fixed it for you.
    change of region = finished content is withheld makes total sense.
    Asian games have almost always released versions in the west several behind their eastern counterparts.

    Localisation is the usual excuse, but I'm not so sure. 

    How hard can it really be to hire folks to do Korean to other language translation, especially English? 
    There are often small changes also made to the game during localisation changes. Changes like this can make a lot of bugs that need to be worked through (and if you remember Trion made a massive deal about how much they had to change for translations alone). 

    However companies do like to drip feed content early on to try and entice customers to sign up for that second month, so perhaps a bit of both going on. 
  • marganculosmarganculos Member UncommonPosts: 334
    Sephiroso said:
    Oh man, i just found this shocking interview with one of the Bless devs. It's eye opening.



    oh god don't do this to me, i know this video is old as shit but these subtitles about bless online are so fking accurate i had to laugh ...a LOT :blush:
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    edited May 2018
    Orinori said:
    Kyleran said:
    Sephiroso said:
    Orinori said:
    Sephiroso said:
    hikaru77 said:
    So, what part of Early Access people don't understand?. 
    The part where all the missing content is done but not in the game because regions.
    Fixed it for you.
    change of region = finished content is withheld makes total sense.
    Asian games have almost always released versions in the west several behind their eastern counterparts.

    Localisation is the usual excuse, but I'm not so sure. 

    How hard can it really be to hire folks to do Korean to other language translation, especially English? 
    There are often small changes also made to the game during localisation changes. Changes like this can make a lot of bugs that need to be worked through (and if you remember Trion made a massive deal about how much they had to change for translations alone). 

    However companies do like to drip feed content early on to try and entice customers to sign up for that second month, so perhaps a bit of both going on. 
    I can understand not having SLevels in the game currently and maybe even some of the true "end game" dungeons due to balancing purposes. However, as of their Steam page update for "official launch", these are advertised as part of the game (100v100 RvR battlegrounds, elite/hard mode dungeons, reputation, etc.) but are not included in the game at all. So, while I give Neowiz props for admitting the state of the game is a bit trash (and apologizing for it), I wish they weren't talking out both sides of their mouth to potential customers.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,580
    I think this update on Steam sort of closes the conversation and their offer of full, uncontested refunds is more than fair.

    Summary,  players made incorrect assumptions on what content to expect but the devs are willing to give anyone's money back.

    Stay if you wish, go and come back later if not, no harm, no foul.

    "Most importantly, we know that there is end-game content missing that many of you expected in this first Early Access build, given what’s available in the other versions of the game. Additions like the 15v15 PVP and new high-level dungeons will be added in 1-2 weeks’ time, with more to come soon after.

    Bless Online’s Early Access was always intended to be a growing experience, with systems and content being added in the weeks and months ahead; this is why we chose the Steam Early Access program. We are sincerely sorry that our players were led to believe otherwise, and we are happy to allow refunds for those who feel they cannot wait for the new content to arrive."


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    edited May 2018
    Kyleran said:
    I think this update on Steam sort of closes the conversation and their offer of full, uncontested refunds is more than fair.

    Summary,  players made incorrect assumptions on what content to expect but the devs are willing to give anyone's money back.

    Stay if you wish, go and come back later if not, no harm, no foul.

    "Most importantly, we know that there is end-game content missing that many of you expected in this first Early Access build, given what’s available in the other versions of the game. Additions like the 15v15 PVP and new high-level dungeons will be added in 1-2 weeks’ time, with more to come soon after.

    Bless Online’s Early Access was always intended to be a growing experience, with systems and content being added in the weeks and months ahead; this is why we chose the Steam Early Access program. We are sincerely sorry that our players were led to believe otherwise, and we are happy to allow refunds for those who feel they cannot wait for the new content to arrive."
    I do think its entirely fair and honorable that they are offering refunds -- it gives them major points in my eyes. However, given they updated the Steam page to include things like hard mode/elite dungeons and 100v100 battles, I hardly think you can blame consumers for "assuming" they would be part of the game.

    They literally apologized that those features are not part of the game, and in the same breath changed their advertising to say that they ARE in the game.
  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878
    Kyleran said:
    Sephiroso said:
    Orinori said:
    Sephiroso said:
    hikaru77 said:
    So, what part of Early Access people don't understand?. 
    The part where all the missing content is done but not in the game because regions.
    Fixed it for you.
    change of region = finished content is withheld makes total sense.
    Asian games have almost always released versions in the west several behind their eastern counterparts.

    Localisation is the usual excuse, but I'm not so sure. 

    How hard can it really be to hire folks to do Korean to other language translation, especially English? 
    They could find university students studying English who would do a better job as interns (getting paid very little) than whoever wrote "You became 15level."
    KyleranEponyxDamor


  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    A big reason why people buy into early access is to rush to endgame. They had no idea it wouldn't be in the game which is about as scammy as you can get.

    After Archeage and BDO people are finally catching on the the Korean bait and switch scams and its good to see this game get destroyed on day 1.

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,308
    fact





  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,613
    In defense of Neowiz and no, I didn't even contemplate buying Bless Online, but in defense of them selling it as an Early Access game, I can only blame the players who were so desperate for something new and not caring to ignore the fact of what EA means. While I agree with most that this game SHOULD NOT qualify as an EA release, that is how they released it on STEAM.

    Purchasers have no one to blame but themselves.
    Kyleran

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Early Access in MMORPG language means "get a head start on your peers so you can 2 shot them until they catch up".

    So by those standards, NO I don't blame anybody.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,152
    It's a crying shame.
    EponyxDamorNilden
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,613
    edited May 2018
    Early Access in MMORPG language means "get a head start on your peers so you can 2 shot them until they catch up".

    So by those standards, NO I don't blame anybody.
    Not exactly. If we want to get technical, MMOs never use Early Access, they do a headstart. What is confusing is Neowiz used both at the same time. Early Access in the gaming community means buying into a game that isn't finished but will be later on. MMOs, especially PvP focused MMOs can't really use this excuse and expect people to be okay with it. Unless of course you do a server wipe when the game is actually a finished product ready for release. I had this same argument about Crowfalls no wipe soft launch, which is basically the same thing. A PvP focused game starting the clock on an unfinished product with no wipe for the official launch which forces people to either suck at official launch or accept an unfinished product, not knowing if it will ever deliver what was promised. It's a bullshit business tactic to make money in my opinion, but ultimately, it's up to players to tell companies like this to !@#% with that nonsense.
    Post edited by Rhoklaw on

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,580
    Rhoklaw said:
    Early Access in MMORPG language means "get a head start on your peers so you can 2 shot them until they catch up".

    So by those standards, NO I don't blame anybody.
    Not exactly. If we want to get technical, MMOs never use Early Access, they do a headstart. What is confusing is Neowiz used both at the same time. Early Access in the gaming community means buying into a game that isn't finished but will be later on. MMOs, especially PvP focused MMOs can't really use this excuse and expect people to be okay with it. Unless of course you do a server wipe when the game is actually a finished product ready for release. I had this same argument about Crowfalls no wipe soft launch, which is basically the same thing. A PvP focused game starting the clock on an unfinished product with no wipe for the official launch which forces people to either suck at official launch or accept an unfinished product, not knowing if it will ever deliver what was promised. It's a bullshit business tactic to make money in my opinion, but ultimately, it's up to players to tell companies like this to !@#% with that nonsense.
    The new reality is many MMORPGs these days are going the early access, no wipe route, even the PVP centric ones.

    SotA, Life is Feudal, Worlds Adrift, Crowfall, come to mind.

    Legends of Aria plan a wipe one week prior to their Steam Launch, but they may still be in EA at that point.

    I recall Albion Online did a wipe before full launch, CU likely will, Star Citizen...well it may never actually reach a full launch state, its supporters don't seem to care too much if it ever does. ;)

    I agree it does suck, players are forced to either join in early when the game is not finished or risk being way behind in the PVP race when they finally do join.

    Personally, I think any MMORPG that gives a huge advantage to early players that can never be overcome by those who join later are badly designed and not worth playing, but sadly that is the reality of most games.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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