Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Funding Fatigue?

Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
So CoE, with great fanfare... announced their Kickstarter 2nd Anniversary celebration which included a month of sales with weekly unique and special items each week.  The sale is currently stated to end just a few days from now.

They really pulled out all the stops, reopening sales of Nobility packages which were supposed to have been gone,  a sale on "EP" their in house currency that you can use to buy perks and advantages, cute pets, new mounts, even jpeg ships!

They published stretch goals out to the $500k mark which included some big advantages such as guaranteed "Old" souls for backers which would given them one or more lifetimes advantage over later pledgers/customers,  extra soul packs, upgraded housing (for the higher donors. Just Aristocracy and Nobles) and even a new playable race.   

Yet sales have been... lukewarm at best.  With just a few days to go (scheduled to end by June 1) they have raised an anemic $141k.  Per Caspien:     "We just went for depth for this kickstarterversary instead of breadth, so there wasn't necessarily something for everyone. Lesson learned. We'll do it differently next year."

So why do you think the sales were so slow?

  • Funding Fatigue
  • Lack of Breadth of offerings
  • Too much Pay 4 Advantage stuff
  • Folks waiting for the last day to see if something better comes along for the sale
  • Lowered interest in the game (note that activity here and on other sites is down dramatically)
  • Something else?

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

Mendel
«134

Comments

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,868
    edited May 2018
    They aren't doing anything that would bring in new people.  The people with money have already spent most of theirs on the game.  Is there an alpha for people to play around in or is everything mostly theory still?  I'm mostly waiting to do hands on.
    Mendel

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,726
    "We'll do it differently next year."

    My favorite part
    IceDarkMrMelGibsonIselinMadFrenchieAethaerynanemoYashaX
    Harbinger of Fools
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,417
    So CoE, with great fanfare... announced their Kickstarter 2nd Anniversary celebration which included a month of sales with weekly unique and special items each week.  The sale is currently stated to end just a few days from now.

    They really pulled out all the stops, reopening sales of Nobility packages which were supposed to have been gone,  a sale on "EP" their in house currency that you can use to buy perks and advantages, cute pets, new mounts, even jpeg ships!

    They published stretch goals out to the $500k mark which included some big advantages such as guaranteed "Old" souls for backers which would given them one or more lifetimes advantage over later pledgers/customers,  extra soul packs, upgraded housing (for the higher donors. Just Aristocracy and Nobles) and even a new playable race.   

    Yet sales have been... lukewarm at best.  With just a few days to go (scheduled to end by June 1) they have raised an anemic $141k.  Per Caspien:     "We just went for depth for this kickstarterversary instead of breadth, so there wasn't necessarily something for everyone. Lesson learned. We'll do it differently next year."

    So why do you think the sales were so slow?

    • Funding Fatigue
    • Lack of Breadth of offerings
    • Too much Pay 4 Advantage stuff
    • Folks waiting for the last day to see if something better comes along for the sale
    • Lowered interest in the game (note that activity here and on other sites is down dramatically)
    • Something else?
    Of the options listed, I'd suggest that there is a lowered interest in the game.  I think a lot of the discussion has shown some significant hurdles for COE, and the developers do not have a solid plan on what they want to implement.  I think that appeals for things like the 'voluntary source domain experts' on crafting demonstrated to the customers a fundamental weakness in the development staff -- they don't want to do the research, they appear to want someone else to do the work for them.   I equate the drop in COE discussion with that announcement from CIG, at least both seemed to occur at the same time.

    Ultimately, the schedule for COE was always unrealistic and still is.  That bit of information seems to be taking hold in even the most fervent supporters.  This has created a major confidence problem for the development team -- their customers lost faith in them.  It appears that some of their most loyal followers have questions about CIG's ability to deliver on their promises and are backing away from continued support.  The answers received (or lack of answers) haven't inspired continued faith in the promises and schedules about this project.

    In other industries, the most common way to address issues concerning the customer's belief in a company's product involves the removal of leadership.  Changing the CEO, president or project leadership is used to rebuild the community's belief in the project.  It can be used to bury bad promises and restart a struggling project.  At least, that's one way a company addresses a distressed development project.

    I don't know the internal state of affairs, but to a complete outsider, there are signs that this is a project in trouble.  How CIG will address the situation will have a significant impact on their company's future.




    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
    @Mendel I think you mean SbS but I understand your points

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 453
    I'm in the "It will probably never launch" camp.
    jusomdude

    Seaspite
    Playing ESO on my X-Box


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,482
    They didn't offer a $27K "ship package", clearly what the crowd funding market is after.

    ;)
    ScorchienIceDarkMrMelGibsonDakeruOctagon7711Scotjusomdude

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,482
    edited May 2018
    They aren't doing anything that would bring in new people.  The people with money have already spent most of theirs on the game.  Is there an alpha for people to play around in or is everything mostly theory still?  I'm mostly waiting to do hands on.
    This is likely a factor, unlike some other titles (SC, CF, CU) which have visible game in development and accessable to potential backers this one still doesn't. 

    They were supposed to be rolling in some backer tier into Vox Elyria by now, but if its happening theres been little news on it.

    Certainly nothing people can buy in or upgrade to.



    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    "We just went for depth for this kickstarterversary instead of breadth, so there wasn't necessarily something for everyone. Lesson learned. We'll do it differently next year."

    What does that even mean? 
    DakeruOctagon7711MadFrenchie
    --------------------------------------------
  • Onji12Onji12 Member UncommonPosts: 4
    The term Kickstarterversary is ridiculous to begin with. They will celebrate the first time we took our backers money by trying to get more of it? To top that off the whole thing reeks of p2w benefits for backers. To everyone else the whole thing is just screaming stay away. 

    I am in the "it will probably never launch" camp as well. 
    Slapshot1188Octagon7711DakeruIselinMadFrenchieFangrimceratop001YashaX
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,904
    "We just went for depth for this kickstarterversary instead of breadth, so there wasn't necessarily something for everyone. Lesson learned. We'll do it differently next year."

    What does that even mean? 
    Well it sounds like the made a Deeper pile of Shit for the current backers to dig further into , rather than a Larger more encompassing Pile of Shit for new folks to step in..
    KyleranSlapshot1188OrangeBoyNyteWytchEponyxDamorMrMelGibsonDakeruVrikaWellspringMadFrenchieand 4 others.
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 495
    When was the last time they actually showed something new, some form of progress?  I would hope at the start of the anniversary sale they did some sort of progress report/press release but I don't see much if anything.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    Regarding your question about why we think the funding didn't go as well as expected...

    Speaking personally, as a former KS backer, I guess you can say I lost interest in the game.

    Which pretty much all stemmed from how SBS has conducted themselves as a company since the KS ended. 
    KyleranSlapshot1188Octagon7711
    --------------------------------------------
  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 171
    It's really funny when you look at the comments in the Kickstarter Anniversary post, a majority of them are just eating this up.

    I can't tell whether this is pure comedy or dark humor because of the realization that ploys like these work en mass towards a certain type of people that are stupid enough to fall for it.
  • IceDarkIceDark Member UncommonPosts: 207
    Even if is not the case, I would really love to know that the real reason as to why sales were so slow , is because people woke up. And not only for this game, but for all KS scam MMO's.

    Big love for those who have stopped or will stop to support KS MMo's.
    The Ice is dark and full of terror.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
    OrangeBoy said:
    It's really funny when you look at the comments in the Kickstarter Anniversary post, a majority of them are just eating this up.

    I can't tell whether this is pure comedy or dark humor because of the realization that ploys like these work en mass towards a certain type of people that are stupid enough to fall for it.
    But even the number of comments on that thread are very low...

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • RobokappRobokapp Member RarePosts: 6,122
    well, the game is not out... that should be why sales are low...

    Octagon7711

    image

  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 171
    OrangeBoy said:
    It's really funny when you look at the comments in the Kickstarter Anniversary post, a majority of them are just eating this up.

    I can't tell whether this is pure comedy or dark humor because of the realization that ploys like these work en mass towards a certain type of people that are stupid enough to fall for it.
    But even the number of comments on that thread are very low...
    I forgot to mention that too. Not just that, but the number of likes has gone down as well.

    I think the first few events like this one were welcoming, but I think everyone sort of slowed down and started asking questions at the bikini chain deviant package.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,200
    edited May 2018
    OrangeBoy said:
    OrangeBoy said:
    It's really funny when you look at the comments in the Kickstarter Anniversary post, a majority of them are just eating this up.

    I can't tell whether this is pure comedy or dark humor because of the realization that ploys like these work en mass towards a certain type of people that are stupid enough to fall for it.
    But even the number of comments on that thread are very low...
    I forgot to mention that too. Not just that, but the number of likes has gone down as well.

    I think the first few events like this one were welcoming, but I think everyone sort of slowed down and started asking questions at the bikini chain deviant package.
    Looks like Caspien was actually challenged on his timeline today.   Someone actually showed him that his math doesn't add up.  After the obligatory complaints by the Ivory Tower that asking questions like this takes away from development:


    '❥Winterlynn❄ |⍲|St. Jude Stream - Today at 12:42 PM
    I mean. We are taking away development time for this answer
    ------------------

    We get an actual answer from Caspien that admits the math doesn't work and if you just add up his statements that it does add up to more than 2019:


    Caspian-Today at 12:47 PM

    It's fine folks. Every once in a while people feel the need to ask. And he's not wrong. if you take the statements I've said in here in conversation and add them up, it does total more than 2019. But it's something I'm already aware of. The short answer is, I plan to do what I can to keep it in 2019.
    ------------------

    And then THIS statement seems to indicate that feature cuts might be in the cards in order to make that date:

    Caspian-Today at 12:49 PM

    And I think that's the real question and answer. Are we doing anything to keep it in 2019, given the summation of goals and estimates? The answer is yes. We're adjusting to the limits possible, while still delivering a high quality game, to keep it in 2019.

    earlier-
     We always have a target date. That's the date we use to make decisions. Decisions such as "do we need more staff," "do we need to cut features to hit this date." etc. The target date is there as a guideline to give us frame of reference. But we won't ship until the game is ready. My aim is to make that late 2019, but I can't make any guarantees. Staff changes happen, people get stuck in jury duty for weeks, etc. So I don't believe there's a contradiction there. There's the plan we've stated publicly, we're working toward, and then there's the reality of not being able to predict the future, and we adjust our resources and planning accordingly to handle our changing circumstances.
    ------------------

    So I think that reality may actually be starting to hit both the fan base AND the dev team.  While it may hurt short term funding... getting out of the Ivory Tower and into a more realistic feature scope and timeline is probably a much needed event.  We all know it's much easier to sell things but much harder to deliver them.  Maybe this sale's lackluster performance is the first step on a corrected and viable path.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,599
    Their system is way more of a turn off than enticing me to join.

    Sorry but you have to build a game with your own money,i am not funding ANY developer to build a game so they can get rich.
    So the more in game stuff they sell with packages,the further away i get and right now i am about 5 million miles away.
    Wellspring

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • OrangeBoyOrangeBoy Member UncommonPosts: 171
    oh and 141k raised is anemic indeed, would explain why jeromy is looking a bit pasty on his Q&As
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,135
    Dakeru said:
    "We'll do it differently next year."

    My favorite part
    Definitely a game half full kind of dev to even think there will be a 2019 for them.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    It's always baffled me how people could believe a dev team that can't even meet a ballpark estimate on progress would be able to successfully build a high-quality, innovative game.

    I'm waiting to be shown the logic behind that.
    craftseeker

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,482
    It's always baffled me how people could believe a dev team that can't even meet a ballpark estimate on progress would be able to successfully build a high-quality, innovative game.

    I'm waiting to be shown the logic behind that.
    You are talking about Roberts Industries and Star Citizen, right? Or did you mean CU and City State Entertainment? 

    ;)
    craftseeker

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    edited May 2018
    Kyleran said:
    It's always baffled me how people could believe a dev team that can't even meet a ballpark estimate on progress would be able to successfully build a high-quality, innovative game.

    I'm waiting to be shown the logic behind that.
    You are talking about Roberts Industries and Star Citizen, right? Or did you mean CU and City State Entertainment? 

    ;)
    Wouldn't have put City State Entertainment on that list, but maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention. But this game certainly makes the list. Actually I am pretty sure that  Chronicles of Elyria is the poster child for what is wrong with kickstarter
    EponyxDamor
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Kyleran said:
    It's always baffled me how people could believe a dev team that can't even meet a ballpark estimate on progress would be able to successfully build a high-quality, innovative game.

    I'm waiting to be shown the logic behind that.
    You are talking about Roberts Industries and Star Citizen, right? Or did you mean CU and City State Entertainment? 

    ;)
    Haha, both.  It's nothing personal, I adore MJ for what was DAoC in its heyday, but if I'm approaching this rationally, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that a team and project manager that can't even provide accurate ballpark estimates for completing portions of the overall project can manage to pull it together and create an entire MMORPG that's high-quality and as innovative as they all seem to want to be.

    image
Sign In or Register to comment.