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So, what's an MMO these days? According to MMORPG.com, mostly everything. What does future entail..

YumeTsukaiYumeTsukai Member UncommonPosts: 37
Hi Guys,

Before you burn me on a stick like some kind of heretic, I want you to take a deep breath, read this (it's rather short) and try to make some logical connections of your own(if possible).

Many years ago, a great passion was born for bringing great numbers of players together. Something to overcome traditional multiplayer games and do what was never done before. In the end they called it... MMO : Massively Multiplayer Online, which then became a new genre of games, with MMORPG being the most widely known. Today we have many types of MMOs... like MMORPGs, MMORTSs, MMOFPS, and MMO-whatever you want. But are they really all MMOs or is this just an over-abused term in order to cater to a bigger audience?

I was just browsing this the other days: https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list , trying to see if I can find something new worthwhile in there. However I remained a bit shocked to see how some titles were categorized, e.g. :

- Destiny 2 - MMOFPS (an online multiplayer game with shared lobby, 3-6 player party size, and 12 players max in PVP)

- Soulworker - MMORPG (an online multiplayer game with shared lobby, 4 player party size, and 12? players max in PVP)

- Vindictus - MMORPG (an online multiplayer game with shared lobby (towns), 8? player party size - haven't played this in some time)

And these are just some examples.


Why are these labeled MMOs (Massively Multiplayer Online) instead of MOs (Multiplayer online)? Where is the "Massive or Massively" part in them ? Is it the shared lobbies where you can dance with some dozen other players? Can they really compare to actual MMOs like World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Dark Age of Camelot, Eve Online that actually brought hundreds or more players together, on the same server in the same place? Is it not a very wrong thing to lump them together?

Some of you might not care about the naming. But the way it looks right now, in the future every online multiplayer game with a shared lobby will be named an MMO (it's already happening), just to sell better. And I think it's an insult to both the developers and players that are looking towards creating/getting immersed in a true "massive" experience.

Thanks for reading. You decide the future.
Rudedawg007KidRiskGobstopper3DturinmacleodthunderCkjempff
«134567

Comments

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 2,837
    Games change

    For example. We don't see the same style games from 1999 as we do now.

    Look at RPGs. They started almost entirely as huge open worlds, with massive game length. Even games like Skyrim aren't anything like Daggerfall, the biggest open world game ever...Skyrim is nothing like Morrowind either.

    Morrowind isn't even anything like Oblivion either

    And then look at Fallout 1/2...vastly different than Fallout 3, NV and even more different is Fallout 4

    Which are great examples of them all being RPGs, but very different than older RPGs. But just because they are different doesn't make them not RPGs

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 1,952
    Games change

    For example. We don't see the same style games from 1999 as we do now.

    Look at RPGs. They started almost entirely as huge open worlds, with massive game length. Even games like Skyrim aren't anything like Daggerfall, the biggest open world game ever...Skyrim is nothing like Morrowind either.

    Morrowind isn't even anything like Oblivion either

    And then look at Fallout 1/2...vastly different than Fallout 3, NV and even more different is Fallout 4

    Which are great examples of them all being RPGs, but very different than older RPGs. But just because they are different doesn't make them not RPGs
    What you're describing and what OP is describing is like oil and water my man. Also i dont even know what you're on about. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all share a fuck ton of similarities. Just like Witcher 1-3 does. Well maybe not 1, i didn't play it but at least 2-3. They're all RPGs at their core despite the differences.

    OP is right, none of those are MMOs, he's most right about Vindictus and Soul Worker. I came in this thread ready to lambast OP thinking he was yet another person going "Why is Diablo 3 and Path of Exile listed on the game list when they're not mmorpgs" when they're clearly labeled as ARPGs...but yea sure enough destiny is an mmofps and vindictus an mmorpg. lol

    I'm curious where this goes.
    YumeTsukai

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,292
    Monster Hunter World: set to be mmorpgs mmo of the year in 2018 ;)
    mrputtsJean-Luc_Picard
    ....
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 2,837
    Sephiroso said:
    Games change

    For example. We don't see the same style games from 1999 as we do now.

    Look at RPGs. They started almost entirely as huge open worlds, with massive game length. Even games like Skyrim aren't anything like Daggerfall, the biggest open world game ever...Skyrim is nothing like Morrowind either.

    Morrowind isn't even anything like Oblivion either

    And then look at Fallout 1/2...vastly different than Fallout 3, NV and even more different is Fallout 4

    Which are great examples of them all being RPGs, but very different than older RPGs. But just because they are different doesn't make them not RPGs
    What you're describing and what OP is describing is like oil and water my man. Also i dont even know what you're on about. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all share a fuck ton of similarities. Just like Witcher 1-3 does. Well maybe not 1, i didn't play it but at least 2-3. They're all RPGs at their core despite the differences.

    OP is right, none of those are MMOs, he's most right about Vindictus and Soul Worker. I came in this thread ready to lambast OP thinking he was yet another person going "Why is Diablo 3 and Path of Exile listed on the game list when they're not mmorpgs" when they're clearly labeled as ARPGs...but yea sure enough destiny is an mmofps and vindictus an mmorpg. lol

    I'm curious where this goes.
    Morrowind is nothing like Skyrim lol. In morrowind, you grinding the skills up (sorta same in oblivion, morrowind is more similar to oblivion in some ways). That makes it really different in itself. Where as Skyrim its a perk tree like Fallout, makes the game really different. But many other changes to.

    Though the biggest example I noticed you skipped... 

    You can't say fallout 1 and 2 are anything like fallout 3, NV which are pretty different than fallout 4.

    Fallout 1 and 2 are completely different style RPGs than bethesda's fallout...but they are still RPGs despite them being vastly different.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 1,952
    edited May 12
    I don't talk about things i haven't played. Never played any of the Fallouts because they didn't interest me. Perk tree or not, you grind your skills in both Morrowind and Skyrim. You're looking at some superficial differences acting like its the difference between the sky and earth when its really the difference between an orange tree and an apple tree
    Post edited by Sephiroso on

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • bonzoso21bonzoso21 Member UncommonPosts: 209
    I've never really considered those games to be MMOs and don't know anybody who does, despite the label they sometimes receive online. Games like The Division, Destiny, Warframe, and Sea of Thieves are relatively new and for some reason many find it hard to categorize them. I've seen the term "MMO-Lite" used quite a bit to label any shared-world games with some kind of persistence, progression, and a combination of PvE and PvP, but it still implies "massive" when they often cap players at 10-30 per instance. 

    Even Battlefield has 64-player matches, but nobody's ever used an MMO-style category for it because it has no persistence (even though the Operations mode is bigger in scope than many MMO PvP Battlegrounds modes). Maybe those others games get lumped in with MMOs because they still have a lot of grindy progression after reaching the level cap.
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member RarePosts: 1,704
    This type of thread comes out like once every three weeks.

    www.MMORPG.com branched out to cover more games and attract a larger audience and therefore keep themselves in business. 

    Definitions aren't that important in video gaming. In other fields they are very important. 

    Cryomatrix
    SBFordDakeruNephethsschruppMMOExposed
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 1,952
    bonzoso21 said:
    I've never really considered those games to be MMOs and don't know anybody who does, despite the label they sometimes receive online. Games like The Division, Destiny, Warframe, and Sea of Thieves are relatively new and for some reason many find it hard to categorize them. I've seen the term "MMO-Lite" used quite a bit to label any shared-world games with some kind of persistence, progression, and a combination of PvE and PvP, but it still implies "massive" when they often cap players at 10-30 per instance. 

    Even Battlefield has 64-player matches, but nobody's ever used an MMO-style category for it because it has no persistence (even though the Operations mode is bigger in scope than many MMO PvP Battlegrounds modes). Maybe those others games get lumped in with MMOs because they still have a lot of grindy progression after reaching the level cap.
    To me it's very simple. Just drop an M. That's all they gotta do. Multiplayer Online Game.

    It's a spectrum. There's Single Player RPGS or RPG. There's Co-op RPGs for 2-4 or...well Co-op RPG. Then Multiplayer(Online if online) RPG or MORPG. And finally MMORPG.

    I really don't get why people fight so hard to be dumb when it comes to labeling. But then again there's people who think vaccinations cause autism and that the earth is flat so what ya gonna do.
    KyleranYumeTsukai

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 28,971
    edited May 12
    Oh look! It's this week's thread...

    *sighs*

    We are a brand now. For us, it's not as simple as sticking to the old definition of what an MMORPG is since it's evolving and changing and so are we. It's not as if we can just drop the URL and not lose our brand name. Most tissues aren't Kleenex and most bandages aren't Bandaids, but that's what they are.

    On the games list, we have clear categories that can sort the list by what type(s) of games you want to see. 

    The bottom line is: We adapt or we die. 

    *pulls out tired wrinkled paper*

    We cover a lot of games here at MMORPG.com. We cover as much MMORPG news as we can but we have expanded coverage to fit in with the evolving nature of what online gaming is and, frankly, to pay the bills.

    *folds the paper, stuffs it back into her pocket until next week*
    Post edited by SBFord on
    XodicNephethKyleranKidRiskJean-Luc_PicardsschruppMadFrenchieTorval

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,099
    Did not we normally wait a week between these?
    SBFordScorchienNepheth

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ScorchienScorchien Member EpicPosts: 5,066
    edited May 12
    Did not we normally wait a week between these?
    lmao , thats what i thought when i read the title , then .................

        " Oh know he didnt"
    Post edited by Scorchien on
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 29,717
    Sephiroso said:
    Games change

    For example. We don't see the same style games from 1999 as we do now.

    Look at RPGs. They started almost entirely as huge open worlds, with massive game length. Even games like Skyrim aren't anything like Daggerfall, the biggest open world game ever...Skyrim is nothing like Morrowind either.

    Morrowind isn't even anything like Oblivion either

    And then look at Fallout 1/2...vastly different than Fallout 3, NV and even more different is Fallout 4

    Which are great examples of them all being RPGs, but very different than older RPGs. But just because they are different doesn't make them not RPGs
    What you're describing and what OP is describing is like oil and water my man. Also i dont even know what you're on about. Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all share a fuck ton of similarities. Just like Witcher 1-3 does. Well maybe not 1, i didn't play it but at least 2-3. They're all RPGs at their core despite the differences.

    OP is right, none of those are MMOs, he's most right about Vindictus and Soul Worker. I came in this thread ready to lambast OP thinking he was yet another person going "Why is Diablo 3 and Path of Exile listed on the game list when they're not mmorpgs" when they're clearly labeled as ARPGs...but yea sure enough destiny is an mmofps and vindictus an mmorpg. lol

    I'm curious where this goes.
    Morrowind is nothing like Skyrim lol. In morrowind, you grinding the skills up (sorta same in oblivion, morrowind is more similar to oblivion in some ways). That makes it really different in itself. Where as Skyrim its a perk tree like Fallout, makes the game really different. But many other changes to.

    Though the biggest example I noticed you skipped... 

    You can't say fallout 1 and 2 are anything like fallout 3, NV which are pretty different than fallout 4.

    Fallout 1 and 2 are completely different style RPGs than bethesda's fallout...but they are still RPGs despite them being vastly different.
    All of those older RPGs are single player titles, same for your more modern examples.

    You are arguing about what "perspective" they play from, and differences in mechanics are irrelevant.

    MMORPGs from 1999 were "massively" multiplayer with hundreds if not thousands online in the same game world.  You could also get at least a couple of hundred folks in the same zone.

    Heck, EQ1 had raids 5 times larger than the titles you are defending as "MMOs."

    Sure, times change, but massively still does not mean a 12 person dungeon run.

    No surrender. 

    ;)
    SephirosoXodicYumeTsukaiVyntGobstopper3DAzoth

    Ten types of internet trolls - Which one are you?

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon





  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,099
    Scorchien said:
    Did not we normally wait a week between these?
    lmao , thats what i thought when i read the title , then .................

        " I know he didnt"
    Ok then... @OP please close this and repost on Monday.

    Thx

    SBFord

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • bonzoso21bonzoso21 Member UncommonPosts: 209
    Who buys bandages other than Band-Aids?!
    SBFordKyleran
  • XodicXodic Member RarePosts: 860
    SBFord said:
    Oh look! It's this week's thread...

    *sighs*

    We are a brand now. For us, it's not as simple as sticking to the old definition of what an MMORPG is since it's evolving and changing and so are we. It's not as if we can just drop the URL and not lose our brand name. Most tissues aren't Kleenex and most bandages aren't Bandaids, but that's what they are.

    On the games list, we have clear categories that can sort the list by what type(s) of games you want to see. 

    The bottom line is: We adapt or we die. 

    *pulls out tired wrinkled paper*

    We cover a lot of games here at MMORPG.com. We cover as much MMORPG news as we can but we have expanded coverage to fit in with the evolving nature of what online gaming is and, frankly, to pay the bills.

    *folds the paper, stuffs it back into her pocket until next week*
    I get it, but if you see this thread every week then perhaps the people posting it aren't the problem. 
    timtrackkjempff
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 1,952
    edited May 12
    SBFord said:
    Oh look! It's this week's thread...

    *sighs*

    We are a brand now. For us, it's not as simple as sticking to the old definition of what an MMORPG is since it's evolving and changing and so are we. It's not as if we can just drop the URL and not lose our brand name. Most tissues aren't Kleenex and most bandages aren't Bandaids, but that's what they are.

    On the games list, we have clear categories that can sort the list by what type(s) of games you want to see. 

    The bottom line is: We adapt or we die. 

    *pulls out tired wrinkled paper*

    We cover a lot of games here at MMORPG.com. We cover as much MMORPG news as we can but we have expanded coverage to fit in with the evolving nature of what online gaming is and, frankly, to pay the bills.

    *folds the paper, stuffs it back into her pocket until next week*
    Look, I was ready to defend you if he was bringing out the whole "Why do they cover console games" or "Why is Path of Exile on the game list" when you guys clearly list it as an ARPG and not an mmorpg.

    But that's not what he did. He showed games that are clearly not MMORPGs, that you list as MMORPGs. He's not saying "Why do they have these games in the game list" rather, why are you listing them as MMORPGs when they clearly arent?

    This thread wouldn't have even been made if they were properly labeled. In Destiny's case. Your pick. MOFPS or FPS. It isn't an MMOFPS though. Even more so in the case of Soul Worker and Vindictus.

    I couldn't have said it better than Kyleran. Time's change, sure, but massively will never mean 8-12 people per map period.
    Post edited by Sephiroso on
    XodicKyleranYumeTsukaiVyntGobstopper3Dkjempff

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 2,628
    No... not this again. I can't, I just can't... *cries in the corner*
    SBFord

    “There are three things all wise men fear: the sea in storm, a night with no moon, and the anger of a gentle man.” ― Patrick RothfussThe Wise Man's Fear


    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 1,601
    MMO is every multiplayer game if we accept that the players should exist, but not play together. There are thousands of players on LoL, CS and etc. servers. Even DS3 could be called MMO. If the players should play together, well there are very few MMOs.
    SBFord
  • Rudedawg007Rudedawg007 Member CommonPosts: 4
    Personally I do not care if "games are changing"; I'd rather they developed a sister site for all of these other "games" I come here for MMO's.

    Not rpg's, not pay to win browser games, and whatever else they have been throwing into the soup.

    Agree with the poster 110%!
    SBFordturinmacleod
  • XodicXodic Member RarePosts: 860
    edited May 13
    ikcin said:
    MMO is every multiplayer game if we accept that the players should exist, but not play together. There are thousands of players on LoL, CS and etc. servers. Even DS3 could be called MMO. If the players should play together, well there are very few MMOs.


    Well hell, if I'm connected to the interwebs playing with myself, and your connected to the interwebs playing with yourself, then playing with yourself is an MMO.

    How many degrees of separation are we claiming as the new standard? Do we need to at least be on the same site?
    Post edited by Xodic on
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,263
    There are two different questions:

    1. What sort of games should mmorpg.com cover? and...
    2. What makes a game deserve the MMO category.
    Question 1 is easy: whatever the fuck they feel like covering. This has changed over the years and we, the regulars here, like it this way.

    Question 2 is a whole different story and around here it's the topic that never ends... my friends.
    SBFordKyleran
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 28,971
    edited May 13
    Personally I do not care if "games are changing"; I'd rather they developed a sister site for all of these other "games" I come here for MMO's.

    Not rpg's, not pay to win browser games, and whatever else they have been throwing into the soup.

    Agree with the poster 110%!
    The games list sorts by whatever kind of game you want to see.

    And just for an example:

    News since Thursday:

    LOTRO x2
    FFXIV
    Bless x2
    WoW x4
    Star Trek Online
    TERA x2
    ESO
    GW2
    Star Citizen
    MapleStory 2 x2 
    Black Desert 
    Neverwinter
    Champions Online
    Ascent: Infinite Realm x2
    Trove
    Crowfall
    Closers
    SWTOR
    Wild West Online
    APB Reloaded (with Fallen Earth included in the piece)
    Riders of Icarus
    Blade & Soul
    World of Speed
    Lineage 2 Revolution

    In addition to all of the above:

    LoL
    a general Blizzard piece that includes WoW
    Sea of Thieves
    Heroes of the Storm x2
    Conan Exiles, though it is an in-between x2
    Warframe
    Path of Exile
    Anthem
    PUBG
    DayZ

    Other:
    3 hardware reviews -- gaming headsets

    Which list is longer? That's just 3 days' worth.

    Oh yeah...and we do have a sister site: GameSpace.com. Never heard of it or visited? And you wonder why we put other-than-MMORPG news here. 



    Post edited by SBFord on
    sschruppTorval

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,339
    1st thoughts on this thread............

    This again?
    SBFordTorval
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 29,717
    Personally I do not care if "games are changing"; I'd rather they developed a sister site for all of these other "games" I come here for MMO's.

    Not rpg's, not pay to win browser games, and whatever else they have been throwing into the soup.

    Agree with the poster 110%!

    Funny story, they actually have a sister site called GameSpace.com.

    I don't think many people visit it, not sure why, maybe they mislabel social apps and include them as games, wouldn't surprise me.

    ;)

    Ten types of internet trolls - Which one are you?

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon





  • Asch126Asch126 Member UncommonPosts: 255
    SBFord said:
    Oh look! It's this week's thread...

    *sighs*

    We are a brand now. For us, it's not as simple as sticking to the old definition of what an MMORPG is since it's evolving and changing and so are we. It's not as if we can just drop the URL and not lose our brand name. Most tissues aren't Kleenex and most bandages aren't Bandaids, but that's what they are.

    On the games list, we have clear categories that can sort the list by what type(s) of games you want to see. 

    The bottom line is: We adapt or we die. 

    *pulls out tired wrinkled paper*

    We cover a lot of games here at MMORPG.com. We cover as much MMORPG news as we can but we have expanded coverage to fit in with the evolving nature of what online gaming is and, frankly, to pay the bills.

    *folds the paper, stuffs it back into her pocket until next week*
    I love how you seem to get upset about this, yet ALWAYS feel the need to comment and get angrier.
    Gobstopper3D
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