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Lootboxes are gambling (Official Statement)

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,266
    Eldurian said:
    laserit said:
    Eldurian said:

    I could find 100 surveys by 100 colleges showing that less than 1% of lootbox sales are to children and you would pull up some unrelated stat and persist in your foolishness.
    100 surveys about children making up 1% of loot box sales you say

    How about you post links to 10% of them, hell even 1% of them.

    Context is an important part of reading comprehension. I wasn't saying they exist. I was saying if they did exist, you would deny them all or find a way to twist your logic to make them irrelevant.

    Because what does exist is overwhelming evidence that online games are dominated primarily by adults, and that children are a minority. (I won't bother resourcing all the graphs I've already presented tot hat end)

    What does exist is overwhelming evidence that adults have far more disposable income than children. (Note that the highest income years mirror the average age of a gamer)

    What does exist is ample data that games the rely on cash shops and loot boxes are propped up primarily by a very small percentage of the player base known as whales.

    It doesn't take a genius to put the pieces together if you are actually looking for the truth about who is buying all these lootboxes.

    If you think any significant percent of those lootbox sales are coming from children living at home with their parents, you are absolutely deluded. 

    Eldurian said:
    laserit said:
    Eldurian said:

    I could find 100 surveys by 100 colleges showing that less than 1% of lootbox sales are to children and you would pull up some unrelated stat and persist in your foolishness.
    100 surveys about children making up 1% of loot box sales you say

    How about you post links to 10% of them, hell even 1% of them.

    Context is an important part of reading comprehension. I wasn't saying they exist. I was saying if they did exist, you would deny them all or find a way to twist your logic to make them irrelevant.

    Because what does exist is overwhelming evidence that online games are dominated primarily by adults, and that children are a minority. (I won't bother resourcing all the graphs I've already presented tot hat end)

    What does exist is overwhelming evidence that adults have far more disposable income than children. (Note that the highest income years mirror the average age of a gamer)

    What does exist is ample data that games the rely on cash shops and loot boxes are propped up primarily by a very small percentage of the player base known as whales.

    It doesn't take a genius to put the pieces together if you are actually looking for the truth about who is buying all these lootboxes.

    If you think any significant percent of those lootbox sales are coming from children living at home with their parents, you are absolutely deluded. 


    "adults have far more disposable income than children."

    well duh...

    The youngest age group in your link has $6137 a year to spend on junk like loot boxes.

    Your other link says 50% of sales come from whales, so we can extrapolate from that,  that kids are not a significant part of the other 50%?

    Really? You think I'm fucking stupid?

    You post all this kind of silly childish bullshit like:

    "I could find 100 surveys by 100 colleges showing that less than 1% of lootbox sales are to children and you would pull up some unrelated stat and persist in your foolishness."

    Fact is your trying to use fantasy to make a point.

    Your links just strengthen my arguments.

    The more crap you type, the more I believe that your not 30 and that your just a kid yourself.





    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited May 2018
    "There is some good news though -- the average spend per player is up to $24.33, from $22 in 2014, and the typical paying player makes 1.8 purchases, averaging $13.82 per purchase, which is a new high."

    That's you're other 50%. Made up primarily of adults most likely since you've only subtracted a fraction of a percent from the adult population after account for whales. I am guessing about 0% of whales are kids because kids can't afford to be a whale. And it's not like that other 50% is perfectly flat. I'm sure there is a slope from high payers to low payers within that 50% and adults sit at the high end of that as well.

    However, If I a kid potentially spends 25$ on lootboxes in a game they enjoy I don't see that as a major issue.

    As prettymuch all have agreed on. When you buy a pack of Magic The Gathering, Pokémon, or baseball cards it's RNG. You don't know what cards will be in that pack. You could open some crap rare or a foiled planeswalker.

    I think most of us here have bought some kind of trading cards in our youth. I know I have.

    I think most of here are not gambling addicts. I know I am certainly not.

    Where this would really become an issue is if you get kids coming back spending hundreds or thousands of dollars in a desperate attempt to get some stupid in-game item.

    Kids don't have the resources to do that.

    So assuming you did ever buy trading cards as a kid, why do you feel children now shouldn't have the same rights you had as a child?

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,266
    Eldurian said:
    "There is some good news though -- the average spend per player is up to $24.33, from $22 in 2014, and the typical paying player makes 1.8 purchases, averaging $13.82 per purchase, which is a new high."

    That's you're other 50%. Made up primarily of adults most likely since you've only subtracted a fraction of a percent from the adult population after account for whales. I am guessing about 0% of whales are kids because kids can't afford to be a whale. And it's not like that other 50% is perfectly flat. I'm sure there is a slope from high payers to low payers within that 50% and adults sit at the high end of that as well.

    However, If I a kid potentially spends 25$ on lootboxes in a game they enjoy I don't see that as a major issue.

    As prettymuch all have agreed on. When you buy a pack of Magic The Gathering, Pokémon, or baseball cards it's RNG. You don't know what cards will be in that pack. You could open some crap rare or a foiled planeswalker.

    I think most of us here have bought some kind of trading cards in our youth. I know I have.

    I think most of here are not gambling addicts. I know I am certainly not.

    Where this would really become an issue is if you get kids coming back spending hundreds or thousands of dollars in a desperate attempt to get some stupid in-game item.

    Kids don't have the resources to do that.

    So assuming you did ever buy trading cards as a kid, why do you feel children now shouldn't have the same rights you had as a child?

    It's not the kids that need to be regulated. Kids are naive and kids aren't the problem. Companies and Corporations using their multi-million dollar marketing muscle to exploit that innocent naivety for cold hard cash. That is what I have a problem with and that is what needs to be regulated.

    Trading cards aren't a problem but a monetization model can be. 
    Scot

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    laserit said:

    Trading cards aren't a problem but a monetization model can be. 
    How is it any different at all?

    With trading card games you pay in for a chance to get stuff, you may get lucky and get something you really want, you may get crap.

    With lootboxes you pay in for a chance to get stuff, you may get lucky and get something you really want, you may get crap.

    What is the difference that makes one predatory and the other a perfectly healthy past time for children we've all been chill with since proto-baseball cards showed up in the 1800s?
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,266
    edited May 2018
    Eldurian said:
    laserit said:

    Trading cards aren't a problem but a monetization model can be. 
    How is it any different at all?

    With trading card games you pay in for a chance to get stuff, you may get lucky and get something you really want, you may get crap.

    With lootboxes you pay in for a chance to get stuff, you may get lucky and get something you really want, you may get crap.

    What is the difference that makes one predatory and the other a perfectly healthy past time for children we've all been chill with since proto-baseball cards showed up in the 1800s?
    When I was a kid you bought a pack of baseball cards for a nickel and it came with a stick of gum. We as kids would flick them against a wall and the closest one, won. Some kids collected them, as they tried to get all their favorite teams together. I don't know if they restricted production of certain cards and made them extremely rare. If they did that, it would be an exploit and would need to be regulated as far as I'm concerned.
    Beatnik59

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 3,320
    Well, for me.. when someone equates Lootboxes to doing hard Narcotics and Salutatory Rape.. that's pretty much where I draw the line on taking them seriously.
    Eldurian
  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,408
    Wow that's a complicated definition.

    My criteria for gambling has always been that it is a real transaction that requires a fixed price for a random result.

    Auctions are not gambling, since they give a fixed result for a random price.

    Cash shops are not gambling, since they give a fixed price for a fixed result.

    Mini games that are provided with no additional participation fee are not gambling, because even if they offer a fixed price for a random result, they are not real transactions.

    My thought on loot boxes and grab bags was always "why can't they just sell these results as DLC, instead of having to buy a random chance to receive these things?"  We know the answer already, there is no reason to casinofy your game, except to inflate the value of your DLC far greater than market forces will justify.
    IselinScotAsm0deuslaserit

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited May 2018
    laserit said:

    I don't know if they restricted production of certain cards and made them extremely rare. If they did that, it would be an exploit and would need to be regulated as far as I'm concerned.
    And this is why I see you as a stifling reactionary who I'm glad was not my parent. For MTG cards there are certainly cards that have limited production making them far more rare.

    I bought them, I enjoyed them, and no great harm was done.

    If you want to smother your kids with overprotection that is your prerogative as a parent. I've noticed the children who were most stifled in their youth depart the farthest from their parent's teachings as an adult.

    A 16 year old is closer to an adult than a child. The more you smother them, the more they will rebel. They need to be given room to make their own mistakes and learn from them. Spending some pocket money on trading cards is far from shooting up heroine in a back alley.

    If you want to treat your teenager like a 2 year old have at it. And don't be surprised when they are shooting up heroine in a back alley the moment they leave your stifling overprotection and realize there is a life outside the prison you call your home.

    Don't ask me to do that with mine, and don't use government as a tool to tell me to do that to mine.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,562
    Ungood said:
    Well, for me.. when someone equates Lootboxes to doing hard Narcotics and Salutatory Rape.. that's pretty much where I draw the line on taking them seriously.
    WTF is salutatory rape? Is that when you greet them before you rape them?

    Anyway, if you don't want irrelevant shit discussed in this thread then don't bring up irrelevant Libertarian horseshit ideology into it.
    Ungood
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 3,320
    Iselin said:
    Ungood said:
    Well, for me.. when someone equates Lootboxes to doing hard Narcotics and Salutatory Rape.. that's pretty much where I draw the line on taking them seriously.
    WTF is salutatory rape? Is that when you greet them before you rape them?

    Anyway, if you don't want irrelevant shit discussed in this thread then don't bring up irrelevant Libertarian horseshit ideology into it.
    That my spell checker changing Statutory. My Apologies for the massive confusion it caused you.

    Right... ideology.. remember.. big brother is watching, big brother knows what is best for you.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    While there is truth in the words "Train up a child in the way he should go, And when he is old he will not depart from it." part of doing that successfully is training them to think for themselves.

    If you don't trust them enough to let them make the decision on something as small as buying trading cards, you aren't raising a children who can think for themselves.

    Don't expect any well rounded adults to leave your home.
  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,408
    Eldurian said:

    If you don't trust them enough to let them make the decision on something as small as buying trading cards, you aren't raising a children who can think for themselves.
    I think the difference is in the very term "trading cards."  Everybody who buys a pack gets the gum, and ten or so cards of various players.  But lootbox crap tends not to work like that.  You might need a mount, but you get powerups you don't need.  You might want a skin, but you get emotes.  But that's the least difference between the two.

    With trading cards, you can do with you want with them.  You can trade a card you already have to a buddy who has a card you'd like.  But lootbox crap tends not to work like that; what you get can't be transferred to anyone else.

    Besides, those trading cards don't get taken away from you, just because the publisher decides not to make them available anymore.  But the moment a game cancels, your lootbox crap disappears, with no refund or recompense.

    And, quite frankly, not even the publisher of those trading cards knows what the cards they print up today will be worth five or ten years down the road.  They print off a rookie who just got called up from the minors, and the kid says "aw hell...why can't it have been Martinez or Betts?"  But then, that rookie wins rookie of the year, takes the team to the world series in consecutive years, and goes to Cooperstown.  They may print off a card that is sure to be in demand.  But the guy gets injured and is never the same.

    Can't say the same for lootbox crap.  The publisher can manipulate how much these things are worth, and can control how much the things are worth, because they can buff or nerf these things to make them more or less valuable.

    Kids, and many adults, can be counted on to make a fair assessment about what they see.  But they don't know about the things they don't see; they are apt to trust too much that the things that remain hidden from them have their best interests at heart.  And there is a lot that remains hidden in the way that lootbox crap works.  We don't even know, and have no way to tell, if the odds of getting an item are even what the publishers say they are.
    IselinMadFrenchie

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Beatnik59 said:
    Eldurian said:

    If you don't trust them enough to let them make the decision on something as small as buying trading cards, you aren't raising a children who can think for themselves.
    I think the difference is in the very term "trading cards."  Everybody who buys a pack gets the gum, and ten or so cards of various players.  But lootbox crap tends not to work like that.  You might need a mount, but you get powerups you don't need.  You might want a skin, but you get emotes.  But that's the least difference between the two.

    With trading cards, you can do with you want with them.  You can trade a card you already have to a buddy who has a card you'd like.  But lootbox crap tends not to work like that; what you get can't be transferred to anyone else.

    Besides, those trading cards don't get taken away from you, just because the publisher decides not to make them available anymore.  But the moment a game cancels, your lootbox crap disappears, with no refund or recompense.

    And, quite frankly, not even the publisher of those trading cards knows what the cards they print up today will be worth five or ten years down the road.  They print off a rookie who just got called up from the minors, and the kid says "aw hell...why can't it have been Martinez or Betts?"  But then, that rookie wins rookie of the year, takes the team to the world series in consecutive years, and goes to Cooperstown.  They may print off a card that is sure to be in demand.  But the guy gets injured and is never the same.

    Can't say the same for lootbox crap.  The publisher can manipulate how much these things are worth, and can control how much the things are worth, because they can buff or nerf these things to make them more or less valuable.

    Kids, and many adults, can be counted on to make a fair assessment about what they see.  But they don't know about the things they don't see; they are apt to trust too much that the things that remain hidden from them have their best interests at heart.  And there is a lot that remains hidden in the way that lootbox crap works.  We don't even know, and have no way to tell, if the odds of getting an item are even what the publishers say they are.
    1. You will always get cards from a booster pack, and you will always get items from a lootbox. I have opened quite a few MTG booster packs and been like "Man this is all crap, what a terrible rare!"

    2. The Netherlands and Belgium laws only apply to lootboxes which have contents that can be resold. So 100% percent of implemented laws don't deal with the issue you raised as a concern.

    3. They might not go away but try to play in tournaments at your local card shop and you will find out very fast that what is "standard legal" changes very quickly, and most of your older cards will get relegated to legacy and casual decks within a year of you buying them.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,562
    You don't need to go much further in this tiresome debate about loot boxes than the realization that even those white knighting for the right of others to buy them admit that they think they're shitty deals and say they don't buy them themselves.

    Loot boxes are the shit you buy when you're utterly bored with the reason you played the game to begin with. "Look at my mount, it glows pink and yours only glows yellow!"

    But sure, carry on making the choice to buy them a human rights issue lol.
    Asm0deus
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Iselin said:
    You don't need to go much further in this tiresome debate about loot boxes than the realization that even those white knighting for the right of others to buy them admit that they think they're shitty deals and say they don't buy them themselves.

    Loot boxes are the shit you buy when you're utterly bored with the reason you played the game to begin with. "Look at my mount, it glows pink and yours only glows yellow!"

    But sure, carry on making the choice to buy them a human rights issue lol.
    "You don't need to go much further in this tiresome debate about drinking than the realization that even those white knighting for the right of others to buy alchohol admit that they think it's a destructive habit and say they don't frequently drink themselves.

    It destroys your liver, it makes you do dumb stuff, it even makes some people violent

    But sure, carry on making the choice to buy booze a human rights issue lol."

    ______________

    "You don't need to go much further in this tiresome debate about veganism than the realization that even those white knighting for the right of others to eat vegan admit that they think it's a destructive habit and say they would never eat vegan themselves.

    It replaces healthy fats in your diet with grain, sugar and legume substitution as well as making it very difficult to receive the nutrients they need

    But sure, carry on making the choice to eat vegan a human rights issue lol."
    ______________

    "You don't need to go much further in this tiresome debate about sun tanning than the realization that even those white knighting for the right of others to sun tan admit that they think it's a destructive habit and say they would never sun tan themselves.

    It ages your skin faster, frankly doesn't look that good, and can even lead to skin cancer.

    But sure, carry on making the choice to sun tan a human rights issue lol."
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited May 2018
    Understand that if we make what I think is dumb illegal. You could not gamble in nearly in any form, you could not drink more then enough to get buzzed more than once a year. You could not smoke marjiuana more than once a year and you could never do any other form of drug. Tattoos would be illegal. Any piercing on a man would be illegal, especially gauge earrings. T-shirts with ugly patterns would be illegal. Tights would be illegal. Casual sex would be illegal. Loot boxes would be illegal. Cheating on your partner would be illegal. Themepark MMOs / having a game where a veteran character is more than five times stronger than a newb before factoring in player skill would be illegal. Call of Duty would be illegal. CNN and Fox News would be illegal. Posting passive aggressive statuses on Facebook would be illegal. Listening to YouTubers who whine too much would be illegal. Twitch and other livestreams including E-Sports would be illegal. 

    Do you get the picture yet? The choices that I make for myself should not be codified into laws that apply to anyone else. 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited May 2018
    Eldurian said:
    Beatnik59 said:
    Eldurian said:

    If you don't trust them enough to let them make the decision on something as small as buying trading cards, you aren't raising a children who can think for themselves.
    I think the difference is in the very term "trading cards."  Everybody who buys a pack gets the gum, and ten or so cards of various players.  But lootbox crap tends not to work like that.  You might need a mount, but you get powerups you don't need.  You might want a skin, but you get emotes.  But that's the least difference between the two.

    With trading cards, you can do with you want with them.  You can trade a card you already have to a buddy who has a card you'd like.  But lootbox crap tends not to work like that; what you get can't be transferred to anyone else.

    Besides, those trading cards don't get taken away from you, just because the publisher decides not to make them available anymore.  But the moment a game cancels, your lootbox crap disappears, with no refund or recompense.

    And, quite frankly, not even the publisher of those trading cards knows what the cards they print up today will be worth five or ten years down the road.  They print off a rookie who just got called up from the minors, and the kid says "aw hell...why can't it have been Martinez or Betts?"  But then, that rookie wins rookie of the year, takes the team to the world series in consecutive years, and goes to Cooperstown.  They may print off a card that is sure to be in demand.  But the guy gets injured and is never the same.

    Can't say the same for lootbox crap.  The publisher can manipulate how much these things are worth, and can control how much the things are worth, because they can buff or nerf these things to make them more or less valuable.

    Kids, and many adults, can be counted on to make a fair assessment about what they see.  But they don't know about the things they don't see; they are apt to trust too much that the things that remain hidden from them have their best interests at heart.  And there is a lot that remains hidden in the way that lootbox crap works.  We don't even know, and have no way to tell, if the odds of getting an item are even what the publishers say they are.
    1. You will always get cards from a booster pack, and you will always get items from a lootbox. I have opened quite a few MTG booster packs and been like "Man this is all crap, what a terrible rare!"

    2. The Netherlands and Belgium laws only apply to lootboxes which have contents that can be resold. So 100% percent of implemented laws don't deal with the issue you raised as a concern.

    3. They might not go away but try to play in tournaments at your local card shop and you will find out very fast that what is "standard legal" changes very quickly, and most of your older cards will get relegated to legacy and casual decks within a year of you buying them.
    1. You didn't really refute his counter-argument to yours, only repeated your initial position.


    2. Belgium and Netherlands are the first attempts to regulate; I'll kiss your ass a second time if they got it completely right the first time.

    3. Still doesn't counter his argument: WotC cannot take away your cards just because they wanna create MTG 2 and force you to buy it to continue playing Magic.

    image
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited May 2018
    1. You didn't really refute his counter-argument to yours, only repeated your initial position.

    2. Belgium and Netherlands are the first attempts to regulate; I'll kiss your ass a second time if they got it completely right the first time.

    3. Still doesn't counter his argument: WotC cannot take away your cards just because they wanna create MTG 2 and force you to buy it to continue playing Magic.
    1. I absolutely destroyed his position. He set up a false narrative of relative consistence in value when opening cards. Lootboxes and trading card games have no major difference in consistency in value. They all generate some kind of return, sometimes you can win big, sometimes you can walk away with crap. It's prettymuch a 1:1 comparison and the difference is only in people's minds.

    This is a rare card. You will find 1 per MTG booster.

    This is also a rare card you could draw instead of the first one.

    Notice a difference in value?

    2. They're the only attempt to regulate them in any country in the years that we've had them. Don't expect the US to hop on board with stronger laws then the 2 EU countries that have cared enough to address them any time soon. Obviously what those countries care about is the potential to use them as a way to gamble for money, not the petty concerns of gamers who don't think they are a good value.

    3. No but you you do have to constantly keep rebuying their product if you want to engage in any kind of competitive play. Are you saying the difference between the potential they will shut it down sometime and the guarantee your cards will no longer be standard legal next year is worth bringing the government in to say "THIS IS ILLEGAL NOW!" for one but not the other?
  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    I think it is instructive for hat people in this thread (and other threads) keep on referring to 'whales', that is a term borrowed from the casino industry. The meaning is relatively unchanged too. In borrowing that term game companies and the people on this forum are implicitly admitting that gambling as a source of revenue is at the heart of the issue.

    We all know it is gambling, we all know that gambling needs to be regulated.

    We can do better.
    We will do better.
    Asm0deusScotIselinSlapshot1188laserit
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,885


    We all know it is gambling, we all know that gambling needs to be regulated.


    But gambling isn't equally regulated. The federal gov't just allowed sports betting for other states whereas before it was only Nevada. Yet, their state lotto and all the other crap is allowed to flourish. 

    The stock market can be construed as gambling too. I don't think gambling necessarily needs to be regulated. Perhaps I feel that way cuz it is unevenly regulated in the US, but at some point, people need to take responsibility for the repercussions of gamblings. 

    Perhaps, put a big "G" next to anything that is construed as could be gambling in the US. Either way, I personally just don't care about regulating gambling that much. I would draw the line at targeting children with the gambling bullshit and scams but the reality is that they already do in a certain way with MTG and baseball cards. 

    I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't care if someone regulates gambling or not, just don't use predatory shit that is not out in the open and designed to fool people. 
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    I think it is instructive for hat people in this thread (and other threads) keep on referring to 'whales', that is a term borrowed from the casino industry. The meaning is relatively unchanged too. In borrowing that term game companies and the people on this forum are implicitly admitting that gambling as a source of revenue is at the heart of the issue.

    We all know it is gambling, we all know that gambling needs to be regulated.

    We can do better.
    We will do better.
    What term would you use to refer to someone who directly buys a bunch of items from a cash shop with no chance involved?

    Not that I disagree that lootboxes are gambling, I just disagree that anything which can be classified as gambling (such as the trading card games most people here also agree are gambling) is in need of major government regulation.

    But your point is ridiculous, even in comparison to your usual points.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    I'm curious how this will impact multinational MMOs specifically ESO. Will ESO have to stop selling their loot crates in Belgium and possibly the EU? Zenimax is a US company. They have EU subsidiaries but they are not directly connected to ZoS except through their parent Zenimax Media.

    Does anyone think that will apply pressure to these studios to remove loot crates? I don't see ZoS slowing down at all. In fact, I'd say their cash shop engine has just upgraded from industrial steam to fuel cell tech.

    Will GDPR affect lootcrates? Successful loot crate systems, in my opinion, are built on customer metrics. Does the GDPR have data provisions for how customer data is used even with business partners? Demographics analytics provide a framework for targeted marketing. Will game companies continue to be allowed to harvest data under the provision of providing a better service when that interpretation results in cash shop items and loot crates.

    Could hampering the use of customer data for loot crate marketing pull the rug out from under that system?

    Unfortunately since we're only worried about the semantics of gambling and targeting minors I think it's unlikely those questions will come up under this provision.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Another example is Lord of the Rings Online which has loot crates. I think SSG doesn't have an EU subsidiary anymore. How will this affect a game like that? What would they be expected to do by the government and by the gamers who play the game?
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  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Torval said:
    I'm curious how this will impact multinational MMOs specifically ESO. Will ESO have to stop selling their loot crates in Belgium and possibly the EU? Zenimax is a US company. They have EU subsidiaries but they are not directly connected to ZoS except through their parent Zenimax Media.
    These regulations do not apply to ESO as items from their lootcrates cannot be resold for cash. It actually only applies to a very small percentage of loot boxes. Primarily Steam games like PUBG.
    Iselin
  • DuckDuckBoomBoomDuckDuckBoomBoom Member CommonPosts: 8
    whether or not lootboxes are gambling or not, i'm happy to see them gone for at least one country. crossing my fingers this becomes a trend in games. seriously can't stand rng in games.
    Scot
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