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TheHiveLeader Heals the Devs in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Pre-Alpha - Pantheon: Rise of the Falle

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Comments

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    Gyva02 said:
    Mikeha said:
    I feel sorry for people that have waited years following this game only to get this. :/
    What amazes me are the people who have openly said in their own words  "Pantheon is not for me" Yet every chance they get they have to reply to a Pantheon thread and keep repeating themselves over and over again... ha ha, I can only laugh and wonder what sheer amount of boredom must one posses to keep doing this. Why would they keep looking into a game that they do not want to play???? We get it, they want something "different" and "innovative" guess what, we don't. We want a new world that has the same mechanics and consequences and interdependence of classic EQ. 

    I feel the same way about you making a reply saying "Trion=Garbage" here,

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7263728/#Comment_7263728

    Pantheon is still in development so I will continue to check out the progress and if I feel its garbage I say that its garbage just like you did. 

    What you want does not matter. 

    Welcome to mmorpg.com, 

    Keep wondering and be amazed. ;)
    blueturtle13IselinkitaradGyva02
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,934
    edited April 2018
    Iselin said:


    Now, the slow pace of the game will probably give you more time to talk about the weather in Peoria than the faster paced games do. This is true and it might be something some of you are looking forward to. Me? My preferred in game chat is game related. 
    I have no doubt that those people who want to rush to end game will be there.

    I do think that given the type of game this is, the level of graphics/art design it's going to attract those people who are happy to play a game but also talk about the weather in peoria. Sure, I suppose it will also attract hardcore raiders like Kano but will he and people like him stay?

    This has more to do with types of people who play these games. edit: of which there are several types.

    As I've said before, I"m not a "gamer" and don't really like the word. The people I usually play with really like games but also talk about other things.

    This is not to say that one shouldn't be engaged with game play but different groups of people are going to have different motivations for playing.

    I remember being in Vanguard and there was an mmorpg.com guild and it really was too diverse. I would be in a group of people and all of a sudden someone would come into chat and complain that people were taking too long to level and he wanted to get to high level stuff.

    I was helping people on the island and was happy to do it. I then realized that such an open guild was a huge issue as there would be so many people with such diverse interests that it wouldn't be possible to cater to them all.

    One of the reasons why we always say "find a good guild of like minded" people.
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    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

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    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,470
    Mikeha said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Mikeha said:
    I feel sorry for people that have waited years following this game only to get this. :/
    What amazes me are the people who have openly said in their own words  "Pantheon is not for me" Yet every chance they get they have to reply to a Pantheon thread and keep repeating themselves over and over again... ha ha, I can only laugh and wonder what sheer amount of boredom must one posses to keep doing this. Why would they keep looking into a game that they do not want to play???? We get it, they want something "different" and "innovative" guess what, we don't. We want a new world that has the same mechanics and consequences and interdependence of classic EQ. 

    I feel the same way about you making a reply saying "Trion=Garbage" here,

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7263728/#Comment_7263728

    Pantheon is still in development so I will continue to check out the progress and if I feel its garbage I say that its garbage just like you did. 

    What you want does not matter. 

    Welcome to mmorpg.com, 

    Keep wondering and be amazed. ;)
    I take absolutely no issue with how this game's pace or combat is because I love Everquest and want a game like that with updated graphics but bravo @Mikeha you have just managed to catch a hypocrite in their behaviour.

    This is what absolutely annoys me about certain posters who come on the BDO threads and throw their contempt and disdain and then they get upset when the same thing happens on the thread of their beloved game. Thank you for doing this.
    Gyva02

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,470
    edited April 2018
    True ,true @Torval the way people play games have indeed  gone through a drastic change and 'stop and smell the roses' has never even occurred to any of them. Sad though because there are so many details people miss in the art and style in a dungeon and it saddens me because I feel sorry for the people who spent months adding that detail and beauty to the dungeon.

    I am playing Path of Exile now and I scroll in and look at stuff and smile especially the antics of the monkey on Navali's shoulder or on each subsequent trip to a boss after my 15th charcter yes , I am a nutcase keep on making new characters so many great builds . Husband says this is the perfect game for an altoholic like you. I keep noticing new things about the decor.
    [Deleted User]

  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 499
    edited April 2018
    Mikeha said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Mikeha said:
    I feel sorry for people that have waited years following this game only to get this. :/
    What amazes me are the people who have openly said in their own words  "Pantheon is not for me" Yet every chance they get they have to reply to a Pantheon thread and keep repeating themselves over and over again... ha ha, I can only laugh and wonder what sheer amount of boredom must one posses to keep doing this. Why would they keep looking into a game that they do not want to play???? We get it, they want something "different" and "innovative" guess what, we don't. We want a new world that has the same mechanics and consequences and interdependence of classic EQ. 

    I feel the same way about you making a reply saying "Trion=Garbage" here,

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7263728/#Comment_7263728

    Pantheon is still in development so I will continue to check out the progress and if I feel its garbage I say that its garbage just like you did. 

    What you want does not matter. 

    Welcome to mmorpg.com, 

    Keep wondering and be amazed. ;)
    Trion is Garbage and I'll never touch another one of their games ever again. The difference is I played Archeage because their lies conned me into doing so. Their shady behavior is why I think they are garbage. You on the other hand have not played Pantheon and have already decided its not for you. If Pantheon started out being like classic Everquest which is what they are telling us, then started changing the game into cash grab disaster I then would think Visionary Realms was complete garbage as well...  That's the difference, so I'll keep being amazed that folks who already know a game is not for them stick around to bash it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, yes...  :wink:
    jimmywolf
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759
    edited April 2018
    Some comments here mirror the worries I have had with Pantheon all the way, that it would be a p1999 clone instead of a modernized game based on the best from eq while "fixing" the bad (spiritual successor).
    I have played eq emulators and progression servers regularly through the years, even in 2018.
    Though some of my most memorable moments have been in groups and I like that kind of game to some degree, groupgrind is not something I want to do all day every day and it wasn't 15 years ago either and in fact I remember eq being very open to alternative gameplay (aka not hardcore grouping). Grouping was never the main driving factor that I clocked 1500 days in eq over the years, grouping was some of it and then the other 75%. To be honest, outside of raiding, LDoN runs or other intensive situations, I have not played a character without at least 1 box on the side since 2002, because it is just too boring in the long run. Boxing, like it or not, was the fix to boring single character combat in eq - Boxing should not be in Pantheon, and that means the problem that caused boxing needs to be addressed.

    Eq2 tried to make combat more interesting and in small details and moments it was ok but generally a fail, Vanguard took combat a little further making it more fun to play a single character with decent success, and Pantheon needs to do this even better. They HAVE to fix the problem with boring combat if they want a little broader audience (even an audience of old eq players). It is not impossible that could happen, it is just the worry that I have had all through the project, that the devs have the stuck mindset I see with p1999 fans, that are blind to this exact problem - No one will fix a problem if they don't see it as one. It is of course just my hopes projected here, and I am sure if it turns out to be a p1999 clone there are some (a fraction of old eq players) who will find that to be perfect, but I think there are many players new and old not that far up the road, hoping Pantheon will reach them.

    So anyways, watching this kind of group play can be worrying because it is kindda boring at this point. So the problem now is, Pantheon still has the potential to improve from what we see now into something interesting group combat wise (nothing fundamentally in the way), it is just at the moment no one can tell if it will. Isn't it exciting times ?

    FangrimMendel
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,905
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Those damn achievers... they're everywhere! :)
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

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  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 499
    DMKano said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Mikeha said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Mikeha said:
    I feel sorry for people that have waited years following this game only to get this. :/
    What amazes me are the people who have openly said in their own words  "Pantheon is not for me" Yet every chance they get they have to reply to a Pantheon thread and keep repeating themselves over and over again... ha ha, I can only laugh and wonder what sheer amount of boredom must one posses to keep doing this. Why would they keep looking into a game that they do not want to play???? We get it, they want something "different" and "innovative" guess what, we don't. We want a new world that has the same mechanics and consequences and interdependence of classic EQ. 

    I feel the same way about you making a reply saying "Trion=Garbage" here,

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7263728/#Comment_7263728

    Pantheon is still in development so I will continue to check out the progress and if I feel its garbage I say that its garbage just like you did. 

    What you want does not matter. 

    Welcome to mmorpg.com, 

    Keep wondering and be amazed. ;)
    Trion is Garbage and I'll never touch another one of their games ever again. The difference is I played Archeage because their lies conned me into doing so. Their shady behavior is why I think they are garbage. You on the other hand have not played Pantheon and have already decided its not for you. If Pantheon started out being like classic Everquest which is what they are telling us, then started changing the game into cash grab disaster I then would think Visionary Realms was complete garbage as well...  That's the difference, so I'll keep being amazed that folks who already know a game is not for them stick around to bash it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, yes...  :wink:


    What if - hypotheticlly speaking - Trion ends up publishing Pantheon?

    Would you play it?
    Absolutely no way would I play it if they got a hold of it... Their grubby greedy paws couldn't resist the temptation to destroy it with a cash shop along with all their other horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE, management decisions... 
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,389

    Saicred said:







    Saicred said:





    PS - I'll try to answer some more questions directly as well. Ask away!






    Who are you?  Why should I ask you questions?







    No one, and just thought I'd be friendly. Sorry for the offer.



    Yeah don't be friendly around here, people are very dubious of friendliness.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,934
    Tiller said:

    Saicred said:







    Saicred said:





    PS - I'll try to answer some more questions directly as well. Ask away!






    Who are you?  Why should I ask you questions?







    No one, and just thought I'd be friendly. Sorry for the offer.



    Yeah don't be friendly around here, people are very dubious of friendliness.
    I think it was more a general question.

    Was this person a developer, are they in alpha (and does that mean they have a NDA they need to observe) do they work for the company, etc.


    Mendel
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited April 2018
    Sovrath said:
    Thane said:
    i wonder how people can still be tempted by this stand and fight mechanics nowadays ^^
    Personally i prefer toe to toe combat over twitch...it wears me out to have to hop and jump around all the time.
    While I prefer more "action" combat in that if I hit I hit if I dodge, I dodge, I don't like the uber fast paced jump all around, zip here and there and cover everything with lights combat that some games have.

    More like Mount and Blade or maybe even Dark Souls.

    Toe to toe is fine with me as well.


    You would enjoy Kingdom Come: Deliverance (or did I get the name backwards??)!
    [Deleted User]

    image
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    edited April 2018
    Gyva02 said:
    Mikeha said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Mikeha said:
    I feel sorry for people that have waited years following this game only to get this. :/
    What amazes me are the people who have openly said in their own words  "Pantheon is not for me" Yet every chance they get they have to reply to a Pantheon thread and keep repeating themselves over and over again... ha ha, I can only laugh and wonder what sheer amount of boredom must one posses to keep doing this. Why would they keep looking into a game that they do not want to play???? We get it, they want something "different" and "innovative" guess what, we don't. We want a new world that has the same mechanics and consequences and interdependence of classic EQ. 

    I feel the same way about you making a reply saying "Trion=Garbage" here,

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7263728/#Comment_7263728

    Pantheon is still in development so I will continue to check out the progress and if I feel its garbage I say that its garbage just like you did. 

    What you want does not matter. 

    Welcome to mmorpg.com, 

    Keep wondering and be amazed. ;)
    Trion is Garbage and I'll never touch another one of their games ever again. The difference is I played Archeage because their lies conned me into doing so. Their shady behavior is why I think they are garbage. 

    Then why do you keep clicking on articles about Trion or their games? 

    I have played ArcheAge and I think its one of the best mmos available.  Trion seems like a good publisher. Do you think people that enjoy Trion and their games want to see people like you constantly posting in their topics saying Trion is garbage? 

    This is what they mean by " What goes around comes around " ;)



  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 499
    edited April 2018
    Mikeha said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Mikeha said:
    Gyva02 said:
    Mikeha said:
    I feel sorry for people that have waited years following this game only to get this. :/
    What amazes me are the people who have openly said in their own words  "Pantheon is not for me" Yet every chance they get they have to reply to a Pantheon thread and keep repeating themselves over and over again... ha ha, I can only laugh and wonder what sheer amount of boredom must one posses to keep doing this. Why would they keep looking into a game that they do not want to play???? We get it, they want something "different" and "innovative" guess what, we don't. We want a new world that has the same mechanics and consequences and interdependence of classic EQ. 

    I feel the same way about you making a reply saying "Trion=Garbage" here,

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7263728/#Comment_7263728

    Pantheon is still in development so I will continue to check out the progress and if I feel its garbage I say that its garbage just like you did. 

    What you want does not matter. 

    Welcome to mmorpg.com, 

    Keep wondering and be amazed. ;)
    Trion is Garbage and I'll never touch another one of their games ever again. The difference is I played Archeage because their lies conned me into doing so. Their shady behavior is why I think they are garbage. 

    Then why do you keep clicking on articles about Trion or their games? 

    I have played ArcheAge and I think its one of the best mmos available.  Trion seems like a good publisher. Do you think people that enjoy Trion and their games want to see people like you constantly posting in their topics saying Trion is garbage? 

    This is what they mean by " What goes around comes around " ;)



        Because the folks at Trion are lying con artists. Had they presented the game from the beginning as a credit card whale warrior game I never would have looked at it twice. I sure as hell would not have stayed in the forums saying how the game was no good and they needed to do this and change that to appeal to me. I would have seen quickly that nope this game isn't for me it's time to move on.

        Now that's not what happened, they conned people in with lies, then those people got invested in the game and Trion changed the rules and added all the cash conveniences in the middle of it. And yeah I got vocal a few times after that as I was pissed and I believe rightly so. I believe its wrong to deceive people, you know to tell them one thing and then do another. But if you like it how it is then that's great. If you're the kind of gamer that enjoys the things Archeage is doing then that's awesome, play your game and have fun. 

        But don't stay in the forum of a game you know you are not going to like, whats the point of that? I hate lots of new games that just came out and are coming out but there's no point in going to those forums and telling them "their way of doing things is of no interest to me" Their game is their game, they can make it how ever they want, but lying and deceiving is another story and I'll be sure to voice that if Pantheon we're to do the same to me as Trion did. 

        I also don't mean to throw this all at just you, I see so many people who know this kind of game is not for them. They say over and over again the slow combat is boring but I have to laugh because that is exactly what its going to be all about. Classic EQ was very slow combat. It was all about Crowd Control and burning them down before they burned you down. It was a very slow one mob at a time (most times) battle. Attacks exchanged slowly so you could interact with what was happening. Should I heal, do I have enough time for that, should I just attack, maybe I need to root it and just run, and many, many more possibilities within each encounter. The combat has to be really slow for this to work. If its just like WHACK and its down there's no time to have these awesome decisions making opportunities. That's just how Classic EQ was, and that's how they are advertising Pantheon so I'm 100% on board as I LOVE this kind of play. If the slow combat is not your gaming vibe or flavor, Pantheon is not for you is all I'm saying... 


      
    Post edited by Gyva02 on
    Fangrim
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 41,502
    Letsinod said:
    Sorry but sitting down doing nothing during a fight isn't "hardcore". It is boring, period. Some old school mechanics were better left 15+ years ago.

    As to the people who say they are going to sit around and plan strategies in groups I don't buy it. 20 years ago in EQ when I played the thoughts of internet chatting was still new. Now days I have multiple discord servers. People just don't socialize nowdays like they did then.
    So with more in and out of game communication channels than ever before in history......players don't bother to communicate.

    Weird.
    [Deleted User]blueturtle13[Deleted User]

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  • Teak2112Teak2112 Member UncommonPosts: 61
    The point a lot of people are missing in the whole 'people dont want games like EQ anymore' is that we don't know for sure, because no one has tried since 1999.  Vanguard was quite a bit different than EQ, and it was a technical disaster that wasnt properly finished on top of that.

    No game has come remotely close to EQ's group mechanics since 1999.  The way class toolkits interacted hasnt been seen since (some classes have used ability chaining things but its not the same thing at all).

    While I think things such as downtime arent what made EQ great, it will be nice to have resource management matter again.
  • Teak2112Teak2112 Member UncommonPosts: 61
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Haha,MANY people still had not hit max level a full year or more later in early FFXI days but in Wow it has ALWAYS been a RACE.
    I have never seen anyone do a speed run of FFXI but inside of WOW yep.
    Now i can't say for certain it was Blizzard's fault,imo it is the players,they are the ones who 100%most certainly RACE to end level.

    Just look at AOC,when that game arrived many from Wow and other games jumped in to try it out.
    What was the first complaints?I am at max level and there is a lack of content and that was like 1-2 months into the game wtf is that al about ,what are players trying to prove by RACING?

    In case people are just fanbois,Blizzard proved it anyhow,WORLD firsts,server firsts,what does that encourage if not RACING?When we played FFXI that sort of BRAGGING me me stuff just never happened,instead we looked forward to meeting up with friends to game online and just enjoy the game,it was NEVER about ANY kind of racing.
    Blizzard encourages racing in pretty much ALL their games,top rank bla bla bla,me me me look at me.
    I sometimes wonder if people pay attention AT ALL to the very games they play?

    BruceYee

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,454
    I've tried discord in a couple other games...tbh I don't see what is so great about it...I'd just as soon use in game communication.
    Kyleran
  • sakersaker Member RarePosts: 1,458
    edited May 2018
    Looks like a REAL EQ3, which pleases me very much! I have no use for the current type MMO, hyper-twitchy b.s, nope, not for me. Not saying it's "perfect" (whatever that would mean), I mean the camping with others... Not my favorite idea, trains from idiots never welcome. Would personally prefer some instancing, but, whatever, nothings "perfect".
  • vectrexevovectrexevo Member UncommonPosts: 167
    Is this a real game?
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2018
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,905
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    XP rates were adjusted by player request. People grind Rift trains, dungeons, and battle grounds to hit cap fastest.

    Kano's illustration of how his guild eats through content is pretty much how most seem to want to play. And that's fine for them. Who am I to tell them what and how to enjoy it? I'm not on that page though and don't want to play MMOs that way. If a server or game feels that way, then my time probably won't be long there. I still have a month of sub time banked I'm going to activate in a couple of months when Ember Isle is in full swing or SL opens. Depends on their timing.
    Kano's illustration is also a good reminder that game design doesn't impact player behavior quite as much as some want to believe. The idea that a retro design will result in a utopian environment with everyone partying like it was 1999 is kind of silly.

    It's equally naive as saying that fast combat prevents players from going slow, RPing and playing in a very old fashioned way if that's how they want to play - it doesn't.

    It's not just the games that have changed the players playing these games have as well and behavior modification by forced game modes ain't going to change that all that much.
    [Deleted User]blueturtle13MadFrenchieKajidourdenMendel
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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,934
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    XP rates were adjusted by player request. People grind Rift trains, dungeons, and battle grounds to hit cap fastest.

    Kano's illustration of how his guild eats through content is pretty much how most seem to want to play. And that's fine for them. Who am I to tell them what and how to enjoy it? I'm not on that page though and don't want to play MMOs that way. If a server or game feels that way, then my time probably won't be long there. I still have a month of sub time banked I'm going to activate in a couple of months when Ember Isle is in full swing or SL opens. Depends on their timing.
    Kano's illustration is also a good reminder that game design doesn't impact player behavior quite as much as some want to believe. The idea that a retro design will result in a utopian environment with everyone partying like it was 1999 is kind of silly.

    It's equally naive as saying that fast combat prevents players from going slow, RPing and playing in a very old fashioned way if that's how they want to play - it doesn't.

    It's not just the games that have changed the players playing these games have as well and behavior modification by forced game modes ain't going to change that all that much.
    I don't think anyone is saying that it's going to result in some utopian environment.

    I think people are saying that certain mechanics are going to attract people who like those mechanics and want to see them again. And because of those mechanics, it's very possible that x, y and z will happen.

    And has every player changed? really? I know I haven't. At least not for my taste in games. Oh sure, I have my shit together much more than when I first started playing games but my taste in games hasn't changed at all. I can't be the only one.

    The issue here is that there are people who just don't like these things and they are expressing their displeasure. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree.

    In the end, they put these mechanics in the game and have quite a few testers who are giving feedback.

    And given what one needs to pay to be a part of this, those are people who were willing to put their money where their mouths were.

    So if they are fine with it then these mechanics will stay. And then those mechanics will attract people who want those mechanics. Or people who will at least be able to tolerate them.

    And as a result we'll see how game play happens. Who knows, maybe they will remove them at some point.

    Or maybe the group of people who are ok with them will stay and development will "follow them" just as Kano suggested.

    I mean, look at Elder scrolls Online and how they had segregated the game and then after a while, they opened it up because a good many players wanted it from the beginning.

    So the question is, who is the bulk group that will be playing this game and what is it that they ultimately want?
    blueturtle13deniterMadFrenchie
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    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited May 2018
    They're focusing on a specific niche to be sure, but look on the bright side: they could be focusing on a specific, tangentially-related niche within that niche, like their buddies over at DBG. ;)

    Those who find things like Project Gorgon fun will be the type of gamer who's interested in this.  It will have better production values, but likely less indie charm (i.e. PG's very experimental usage of permanent animal forms and skill lines for players).  It will be interesting to see if it drains projects like PG and EQ into a larger, coalesced base, or if Pantheon merely limps alongisde its spiritual predecessor.

    EDIT- To that end, the lizard brain portions of the VG dev's minds have to be hoping fate throws them a bone and DBG shutters EQ.  Those players will be floating in the wind, looking for that similar experience.
    [Deleted User]Sovrath

    image
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,030
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Teak2112 said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:

    Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.

    Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear. 
    Regardless whether the pacing of combat or the tab-target RNG skill style is appealing, you and Kano nailed how MMO gamers play now. At least that is my experience with Rift Prime. I went in expecting people to take their time and really chew on the content this time, not chew through it like drive-thru fast food.

    It was a serious WTF moment for me. I don't know why I assumed people would want to take the slow path. Maybe because "the sub" and the opportunity to enjoy a fresh server let me delude myself that people still enjoy playing that way. I can't blame people for wanting to play that way or Rift for accommodating, but it's sort of a deal breaker for me.

    I don't blame the people who want downtime or slow-paced "molasses in December" combat in their old school. I think it's a bad direction to take because it's niche-within-a-niche feature. I'd like to play another PvE centric MMO so I give my feedback regarding those features even if the EQ fans hate it. I have Project Gorgon which isn't as pretty but has rock-solid gameplay and an MMORPG community.
    Rift was a fast food MMO to begin with though.  It was about the fast path from the start.  The last game I can think of that wasnt designed to rush to max level to start the end game grind was, ironically, WoW.

    Vanilla servers will be interesting.   The game that now caters to the go go go crowd had its root in a much slower paced game.   WotLK is where WoW really started catering to a different style of player.
    No. That's just a bullshit narrative the gaming community has invented to explain away what they don't like and aren't willing to understand. Players are the dynamic that drives design. No matter how much players don't want to hear or accept that, it's true.
    Good point.

    Rift Prime lost me for the same reasons you mentioned.  It still seemed as if leveling was merely one, long tutorial for the endgame, where the "real" game was.  It was as much about the player mentality as it was the design.  You literally saw folks in general chat bitching about how they were done with leveling and wanted to get to the real game already.  I laughed; the irony was simply too much.
    XP rates were adjusted by player request. People grind Rift trains, dungeons, and battle grounds to hit cap fastest.

    Kano's illustration of how his guild eats through content is pretty much how most seem to want to play. And that's fine for them. Who am I to tell them what and how to enjoy it? I'm not on that page though and don't want to play MMOs that way. If a server or game feels that way, then my time probably won't be long there. I still have a month of sub time banked I'm going to activate in a couple of months when Ember Isle is in full swing or SL opens. Depends on their timing.
    Kano's illustration is also a good reminder that game design doesn't impact player behavior quite as much as some want to believe. The idea that a retro design will result in a utopian environment with everyone partying like it was 1999 is kind of silly.

    It's equally naive as saying that fast combat prevents players from going slow, RPing and playing in a very old fashioned way if that's how they want to play - it doesn't.

    It's not just the games that have changed the players playing these games have as well and behavior modification by forced game modes ain't going to change that all that much.
    Nail?  Meet head.

    I have a feeling a lot of people preaching this gospel are going to realize their vision of heaven isn't real.
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