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My days of healing are over.

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
I recently played Rift prime, 
I would like to think of myself as a seasoned healer.  However with so many variables it could be easy or hard. 
game-to-game 
group-to-group 
low-vs-high level 
spec-to-spec  

Without going into too much detail, here is the basics: 
I created a pure healing Cleric, I studied and watched many Youtubes.  I practiced healing on open world players doing Rifts, However I noticed my healing amounts never seamed very strong, but I believe I speced the best I could. 

It came time to enter my first dungeon.  I was careful to be about medium level as to not be too weak.  I entered the dungeon finder and it randomly gave me a "very high tank" and "very low dps players".  

As with all modern games and random players from Looking-For-Dungeon.  Everyone decided to speed run as fast as they could, I had to chase everyone to apply buffs.  The Tank was so high my heals were not very effective at all, however he was able to hold his own. 

The problem came with a dps taking at random two shots and dead.  This happened almost instant, and happened twice.... Next thing I know I was kicked from the group, "not a single word was talked".  I could have petitioned the group, but I'm thinking what's the use, they were speed running.  

My self-esteem was in the toilet.... Maybe I'm not a good healer, yet more often than not I'm great at it.  I'm not sure if I'm justifying my actions with the encounter or if I suck !   Anyway, I try and keep an honorable reputation in games, but at times I feel it's unjustified.  I can't decide.   


At times I think to myself.....Just play a dps and have fun with no responsibilities.  Then I can be the guy that speed runs, or randomly AFK when ever I feel.....Then I can blame the healer !!..... or maybe I do suck.  
AlBQuirkyHarikenJeffSpicoli[Deleted User]anemoBlaze_RockerWylfZenJellyDarkpigeonMouloxtos85and 1 other.
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Comments

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,317
    Todays games do not favour strategy its not just MMOs. Look at the nonsense that is Fornite compared to solid shooters like ARMA or BF.

    In MMOs class distinction has been going downhill for ages, mostly due to solo-MMO design which needs each class being able to do everything. But once you move to more action combat it is harder to get of powers at the right time and in the right place. Some will say you just need to develop your skills in this area and that's true to a certain extent, but there is a clash of design philosophy which is making difficulties where there need be none. And your example highlights the issue, support classes can have a hard time in zergs and speed runs.

    If you look at healing in many shooters you drop of a heal for others to pick up. The speed of the game means its better to let others have responisbilty for finding heals when they need them. This will be an issue for some years yet I think.
    AlBQuirkyTsiya

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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,135
    Perhaps you'd find healing more enjoyable and rewarding in a guild that favours a play style you enjoy, one that doesn't do speed runs for example. Live may be an easier place to find that, as those on Prime may be more time conscious due to the nature of the server.

    Random groups can be unpleasant in the best of circumstances, and especially so for healers who tend to be the scapegoat of choice when things turn out less than ideal.

    It might also be a good idea to check out the forum and look at healing builds for your character type and the souls available. Sometimes there are factors that affect performance which may not be readily apparent from the spell and ability descriptions alone, which are often highlighted in these guides for the benefit of the reader.
    ScotAlBQuirkyPhryOctagon7711
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 1,951
    I think the problem was that you played Rift prime and not live cause stuff is whacky on prime with how they adjusted the internal numbers. If you liked Rift enough to get as high as you did just to heal you may want to consider live. I can heal most situations on my support on live and sometimes joined dungeons where the healer was just dpsing so I ended up healing the group.
    LeiloniTorval
  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,367
    You just described one of the many reasons why i avoid random dungeon finder games like a plague. You just don't put a random group together and play with the same rules as the previous group, unless of course you tune content so easy it practically doesn't matter what kind of team you have.

    There comes also one thing that is seldom discussed: the responsibility of damage dealers. Many people choose dps as an easy role where you don't really have to care about other people in your group as long as you deal some damage to the same target as others. This is wrong of course. It's your job to make sure mobs go down before healer's mana is depleted just like it's healer's and tank's job to keep heals and damage mitigation big enough.

    There was a time when you picked your group manually and adapted to your group with the resources you had in hand. Every dungeon run was a bit different depending group's composition, classes and levels. It made games fun and you didn't use the same tactics on every run. Today you just run behind the leading character and try to keep up the pace while looting dead mobs.
    KyleranAlBQuirkyTheocritusOctagon7711TorvalDarkpigeon
  • slowpoke68slowpoke68 Member UncommonPosts: 545
    Don't feel bad man.  This has happened to all of us that play healers in games.  It doesn't help when you are in a situation with a game where there is no community or consequences for people acting like jerks.
    KyleranScotwaynejr2TsiyaDarkpigeon
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,135
    deniter said:
    There comes also one thing that is seldom discussed: the responsibility of damage dealers. Many people choose dps as an easy role where you don't really have to care about other people in your group as long as you deal some damage to the same target as others. This is wrong of course. It's your job to make sure mobs go down before healer's mana is depleted just like it's healer's and tank's job to keep heals and damage mitigation big enough.
    DPS is the easiest role, and the least nuanced, such that there is little to say about it other than how to maximize damage for any particular character. They need not be as mindful to the welfare of the group as a cleric or the overall situation as the tank, nor is any particular DPS as pivotal to the success of the group. If a DPS falls there is much more chance to salvage the situation than if the tank or cleric were to die instead.
    AlBQuirkyTorval
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,272
    I guess its good that you didn't play a healers in FFXIV since you're expected to deal decent dps and keep people alive who stand in bad (although they have made it easier to balance in stormblood).
    Phry
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    Its not just you. I've run into that same situation in almost every MMORPG the past 10 years when I've tried to PUG as a healer, so I'll only do it in a guild situation these days.

    Honestly, the whole speed running concept pretty much turns me off from MMOs at all these days, regardless of what class, and especially in a DFer PUG.

    The lack of downtime is what kills it for me, as someone said when you play support you need time to gets buffs applied, and just take a bit of a mental breather before the next pull.

    Running after the group to apply buffs and heals with mana still half charged puts too much stress, and it seems if you don't already know every fight at launch you risk being unceremoniously kicked without comment.
    ScotPhryOctagon7711Avarixwaynejr2AlBQuirkyanemoBlaze_Rockerblastermaster

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,223
    edited April 2018
    Albatroes said:
    I guess its good that you didn't play a healers in FFXIV since you're expected to deal decent dps and keep people alive who stand in bad (although they have made it easier to balance in stormblood).
    Yes I agree OP would have been constantly kicked from groups in FFXIV. 

    I played a White Mage and not only did you have to be fast in curing, healing and dodging stuff you also had to take on large numbers that the tank will ask you at the start of the run how fast you were able to play. Plus some dungeons had mechanics that required you to cure ailments  fast or people died and to stand on this plate or behind that pillar or move past all the area damage and not get hurt and occasionally throw DPS. Bombs on people that you had to take off or  whole groups would die. I actually left in the end because it was too stressful to play.

    Same thing with FFXI. I played Red Mage/White Mage and the buffs for mana regeneration would expire every two minutes I think it was and aside from buffing that and the melee speed I also had to spot heal and debuff mobs after being in a static group for awhile, one day I got up and decided to leave the game. Honestly it was just too much.

    The only thing that was good  was that I was much sought after not trying to brag but if you play well people not only know you by name in FFXI where even the Japanese players would send me tells and we used that automated chat thing since we could not understand each other otherwise and I was playing from Asia then and not like Europe now. They will give you points like in FFXIV I never failed to get them every dungeon run.

    Games require you to perform well in groups and yes speed runs in FFXIV needed you to be fast and know every dungeon mechanic by heart. Playing like that takes a toll but I think most games will be like this and don't think just because the pace is slower in Pantheon it is going to be easy. I played a healer in Rift when it came out originally and you had to play well or else you did badly. Sorry OP this is the reality  of playing a healer, you are either good or out.

    However the reason I don't like what WoW has done is the heirlooms all things being equal I can play a healer well but once you add the heirloom people the pace is no longer fun because I don't have the heirlooms. Vanilla WoW I played a priest and I loved it. The reason FFXIV , FFXI and games like that in my opinion worked for me was because people were more or less equally geared. Heirlooms destroyed that.
    Post edited by cheyane on
    Phry
    Martens: "With all due respect, madam, where are you going with this?"
    Avasarala: "Wherever I goddamn like."
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,357
    The last game I tried to PUG much was TSW (the original) and people rampantly spammed LFG tells with "speed run, must know fights " and this was a month or two post launch which is when I typically join games.

    One day as a lark I posted something like "clueless group forming, will be resting often and no knowledge required "

    I was bombarded with tells asking to join me and we didn't prevail that day but everyone had a good time and no one bitched about dying.

    I quit right after that but if I ever go back to PUGs I might form my own guild for like minded folks.

    Probably call it CDR, Clueless Dungeon Runners or something like that.

    Could end up as one of the largest guilds in the game.

    ;)
    deniterPhryCryomatrixdelete5230AlBQuirkyBlaze_RockerTsiyaCalavryArglebargleRidelynnand 3 others.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Well, a speed run with pugs is not really the best experience, chances are they were a bunch of friends who just needed a healer, you lucked out, join a guild/clan etc and i think you will find more normal play to your liking, though when it comes to DPS repeatedly drawing agro and dying, thats not really the healers fault, its down to either the tank not knowing or able to draw agro proficiently and/or the dps for being stupid either way if the dps dies before the tank does then its hardly the healers fault, besides if the dps die enough times maybe they will 'learn' how to dps properly  ;)
    KyleranOctagon7711
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Albatroes said:
    I guess its good that you didn't play a healers in FFXIV since you're expected to deal decent dps and keep people alive who stand in bad (although they have made it easier to balance in stormblood).
    As someone who does play a healer in FFXIV i have to disagree, the primary roll is keeping the party alive not to do damage, thats just a bonus if things are going well and you have time, the only thing that would be guaranteed in FFXIV is that the tank would have been kicked for not being able to maintain agro.
    KyleranOctagon7711
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,614


    My self-esteem was in the toilet....
    Bullshit.

    Why are you giving power to others? Why are you allowing them to define you.

    There are asses in every corner of gaming. Join a good group of people who just want to have fun. They might not do the highest level of content or be able to be "uber" every step of the way, but at least you will enjoy yourself and enjoy what you are doing.

    If you have a problem solve it. Don't make me say "man up" 'cause I so will! B)
    PhryAsm0deusOctagon7711delete5230AlBQuirkyThupli
  • HarikenHariken Member EpicPosts: 2,510
    Last time i played a healer was in Lotro. Loved the Minstrel class. But the way people play in groups today forget about it. I wouldn't waste my time with a healer class today. In lotro i only played with guild mates and RL friends so it was great. The group finding tools used today are crap because most of the people you get teamed up with are crap. Its no wonder why people like to solo play in mmo's today. ESO is so big because of all the solo content. But the group content turns people away. Playing group content in ESO is a nightmare for most. Just read the forums over at ESO. 
    Torval
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,223
    Tanks and healers have it hard , DPS is a lot less stressful. Things go wrong the tank and healer get blamed ,DPS skate by, although in FFXIV DPS have to pull their weight because if the mobs don't die fast enough and the group is overwhelmed the DPS is not enough so it is noticeable when they don't know their rotation well enough to put out the best DPS they can. In some games DPS also have to know thier job well. 

    I miss crowd control ,next to healing my favourite role is crowd control. I loved that about City of Heroes I could crowd control, and heal my gravity /empathy controller /so sad.
    AlBQuirkyBlaze_RockerArglebargle
    Martens: "With all due respect, madam, where are you going with this?"
    Avasarala: "Wherever I goddamn like."
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 523
    I don't believe the one-sided tales of woe because they are often not the whole truth.

    Rift dungeons can be a pain for the under geared, poorly spec'd and clueless.  Given that you are playing on a server in which most everyone has already done the content, players play differently because they remember waltzing through everything at some point.  They don't remember running anything as a newb.

    No PUG is going to take it slow.  Doesn't matter what game you play.  The mentality of a PUG is to complete something as quickly a possible because having conversation or actually socializing is not on the agenda.  You want a normal paced run, you have to run with friends or a guild.  Period.

    Healing is just dpsing your team mates.  The more you dps them, the more they gain health.  You're just working from a negative number to a positive number.  Dps are just taking a positive number and reducing it (i.e. taking away health).  People make healing out to be so much more than it is.  They making tanking out to be more than it is.  People play dps because it is more fun, not because it is "easier". 

    Everyone has to avoid the bad stuff.  Everyone has to do their role on the move.  Everyone must have a certain level of gear, knowledge, et al.  Everyone has buffs and debuffs to apply.  If you see your role to be more work than the others it's because you play it that way.

    KyleranAlBQuirkyArglebargle
  • FonclFoncl Member UncommonPosts: 347
    Healing is the most impactful role in a group, and the most fun imo. Everyone who plays healer runs into these situations no matter how good you are at healing. If your gear is not the best or you are doing something where you don't have a lot of experience and you play with people who just go on at their regular speedrunning pace with no awareness of the healers situation then it doesn't matter how well you perform, the group will run into problems and you as a healer gets the blame usually.

    Good tanks should be aware of the healers situation, if they're pulling too much or if the healer needs a mana break etc. Having good understanding between healer and tank is usually the key to success in random groups. The DPS are often oblivious about a lot that's going on, since they have no responsibilities, so they rarely have any meaningful criticism of your play as a healer in my experience.

    I enjoy challenging gameplay as a healer but I agree that the speedrunning trend has made playing with random people less fun. In my opinion the main reason for the speedrunning is that the content is simply too easy in most games. Tanks barely have to work to maintain aggro on mobs in most games now, as a consequence DPS don't have to worry about pulling aggro so they can just attack any mob they want and aoe as much as they want at any time with no worries. Crowdcontrol also seems to be a thing of the past, it used to be that you had to organize cc for every pack you pulled and sometimes have people kite certain mobs or you would simply die.

    I think some tanks and a lot of DPS who didn't play vanilla WoW are going to struggle with vanilla dungeons at first, unless they make them easier, because aggro management is a big deal there and DPSers actually have some responsibilities for crowd control and not drawing aggro :]
  • qtaqqtaq Member UncommonPosts: 39
    I have been healing in mmo's for many years now and let me give you some advise don't take it personal, I did for years and like you I am not a bad healer at all, I wont say I am the elite healer but I can hold my own providing gear is where it should be, one: people and morons expect to much you can only heal so much don't care how well geared you are, secondly idiots stand in things pull aggro do stupid stuff  you have no control over let them die cant fix stupid, thirdly pugs are pugs they are called that for reason so never let them question your ability last, I think healers should not only be able to heal but be able to do  as much dps as anyone around them, one thing mmo's have never fixed and its tiring, you get tired of it taking five minutes to kill a mob when someone else can one shot it or two.  Just remember no matter what a wipe is always the healers fault. I wouldn't quit healing based on a pug hang in there keep on keep on, healers are the shiz and get all the shiz too!
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,223
    edited April 2018
    Phry said:
    Well, a speed run with pugs is not really the best experience, chances are they were a bunch of friends who just needed a healer, you lucked out, join a guild/clan etc and i think you will find more normal play to your liking, though when it comes to DPS repeatedly drawing agro and dying, thats not really the healers fault, its down to either the tank not knowing or able to draw agro proficiently and/or the dps for being stupid either way if the dps dies before the tank does then its hardly the healers fault, besides if the dps die enough times maybe they will 'learn' how to dps properly  ;)
    Nowadays with the way death penalties are the DPS just don't learn. They just get carried. When a healer does poorly it is immediately noticeable.

    I have played a lot of PUGs in FFXIV it was PUGs all the time, I would to 10-15 dungeons a day sometimes and they are horrible but they also train you well because when you can do well in a PUG you can do well anywhere.

    I also vote kick lousy players. Any person constantly dying to dungeon mechanics gets kicked especially when they do not listen and learn. Sorry not wasting my time.
    Kyleran
    Martens: "With all due respect, madam, where are you going with this?"
    Avasarala: "Wherever I goddamn like."
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    I have healed for many years in MMORPGS.   I seen this BS starting when WOW in WOTLK they added LFD.   People stopped caring that they were doing stupid shit that got them killed and that I couldnt keep them up and this entitled attitude continued.   Players were so stupid at times that they would get knocked off a platform and bitch at me the healer because I let them die.  They wouldnt take responsibility for standing near the edge of the platform its easier to blame someone else and Kick them from the group.   

    As long as Automated group finders are in MMORPGS and content is so stupidly easy where players dont take responsibility for their own actions playing any healer or tank class is a waste of time.   This is why I refuse to play any of the modern MMORPGS.  I will play Ashes and Classic WOW thats it.   
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,135
    qtaq said:
    I think healers should not only be able to heal but be able to do  as much dps as anyone around them
    If such were so why would anyone choose to be one of the DPS around a healer when they too could opt to be a healer while retaining their DPS.
    Tsiya
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,380
    Up side of healing is you can instantly find a group most of the time. 

    Down side of healing is you get blamed when people die.

    It's not fair. But it's not new either. You cite Rift but it could be most any game. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • t0nydt0nyd Member UncommonPosts: 510
    I don't enjoy healing for the most part. There have been few exceptions, those being combat oriented healers. I love playing supportish classes who can do a bit of healing, dmg, and tanking. Being in the mix is fun. Hell even chloromancer was decent. Pure healing just doesn't do it for me...
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,262
    This is specifically a RIFT Prime problem OP. Class balance is terrible right now and the devs have ruined Clerics for anything but Tanking. You're not a bad healer, they just made the Cleric healing souls terrible. Heal in any other game and you'll be fine. Don't let bad class balance ruin your enjoyment of healing. Just find another game. I had issues with Cleric healing in RIFT Prime, too. It's just not fun.
    UngoodKylerandelete5230Torval
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,227
    I am usually a tank in mmo and my wife is usually the healer and we have a very simple rule of thumb when we pug......if the dps is too stupid NOT to rush into mobs and get one shot it's their fault and they get warned......

    Imo the hardest jobs are usually tank and healer so dps should have the decency to let the tank wade in first and learn to back off when required cause a dead dps is no dps and if that's too difficult to understand then they can have fun waiting in the group finder!
    KyleranAlBQuirkyAnOldFart

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





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