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Daybreak Games shutting down on June 5th ?

SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,355
edited April 2018 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
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Post edited by Seelinnikoi on
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  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    Apparently, DBG is saying it's NOT owned by CN at all.

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,603
    edited April 2018
    No what Kano said.

    edit: never mind I was thinking Standing Stone.
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 2,991
    Sovrath said:
    I'm not sure why people think Columbus Nova owns Daybreak.
    That's how it was originally announced:

    Dear Players, Partners and Friends,

    Today, we are pleased to announce that we have been acquired by Columbus Nova, an investment management firm well known for its success with its existing portfolio of technology, media and entertainment focused companies. 

    SeelinnikoiIselinSlyLoKPhrycraftseekermgilbrtsnCazrielMrMelGibson
  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,355
    Apparently, DBG is saying it's NOT owned by CN at all.
    That is because they now have removed all the pages where they DID mention that CN purchased SOE.

    Thankfully, webarchive has come to the rescue:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180424175013/https://www.daybreakgames.com/press/columbus-nova-acquires-sony-online-entertainment
    MellowTiggerPhry
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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,603
    Forgrimm said:
    Sovrath said:
    I'm not sure why people think Columbus Nova owns Daybreak.
    That's how it was originally announced:

    Dear Players, Partners and Friends,

    Today, we are pleased to announce that we have been acquired by Columbus Nova, an investment management firm well known for its success with its existing portfolio of technology, media and entertainment focused companies. 

    Yeah I deleted that as I was thinking of Standing Stone games not Daybreak. So "yeah" I AM surprised as I also thought they were owned.
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    No Daybreak would not shut down if the parent company goes down, however the parent company going down could hurt daybreak.

    What would be nice here is if Daybreak was going to be broken up so that private studios could purchase the IPs of games like Everquest.  Then the new studio could make a new EQ game vs Daybreak which is just a venture capital company which sole design is to break up companies and sell them off piece meal.  
    zacho56
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    Sounds like DBG are trying to remove all evidence of the links to CN.

    That's to be expected, of course, I have no doubt that CN will do anything in their power to "work around" the asset freeze. I'm sure their lawyers are very busy right now... :wink:
    Phrychris_sr01
  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,355
    edited April 2018
    DMKano said:
    Sounds like DBG are trying to remove all evidence of the links to CN.

    That's to be expected, of course, I have no doubt that CN will do anything in their power to "work around" the asset freeze. I'm sure their lawyers are very busy right now... :wink:


    The reason why they are removing these links is not to hide evidence from courts and legal systems - no that would be not only illegal but completely ineffective.

    they are doing so to not panic the playerbase and lose customers, they are reducing public visibility into their ties with CN.

    Its a PR move

    Again because there is a loophole that will save DBG as an independent company.
    If you read the EQ2 forum thread and twitter of several people inside of whats going on, you will understand that even though it SEEMS that DBG is a separate entity now, the assets they have struck a deal and bought from SOE were using funds from Columbus Nova, and as such are still liable of whats to come.

    Basically, the whole DBG company was created, managed and funded using the CN funds and according to the people citing sources and other law shenanigans, thats like "crime money".

    So yeah, shit hit the fan and it spread far and wide.

    PS: Check massivelyop article to find the Updates on it which include the evidence you need.
    ScotchUpPhryCazriel
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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited April 2018
    Ain't that so weird? Daybreak went back to delete the documents where it would be understood the parent company is CN.

    But then they said "mistake corrected" but even their privacy policy had specifically stated:
    "Daybreak Games may share your Personal Information for the purposes described in this Privacy Policy (except for direct marketing) with its parent companies, which consist of Columbus Nova Private Equity Group (“CN”)"

    Seems like a PR stunt because it shows to be pretty implicit the ties to CN as the parent company.
    Phry
  • alyndalealyndale Member UncommonPosts: 936
    Loopholes or not. This arguably damages the brand. Time will tell I suppose, but maybe we should monitor whether folks stay with Daybreak games or move on. I would suggest these are unsure times at that studio whether or not they are hiring.

    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    John Lennon

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    alyndale said:
    ... This arguably damages the brand...
    Is that even possible ? :smile:
    killerqueer
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,657
    I am happy we have DMKano who is not only always correct on everything related to games and mmos, but also a lawyer with deep insight into the grey area of finance laws and in particular DBGs situation :wink: , not to mention able to foresee the future.
    If I had this kind of insight... :D

    VorthanionDemogorgoncraftseekerkillerqueerTacticalZombehZegalothGobstopper3DOG_ZorvanGdemamiCazrieland 2 others.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,398
    DMKano said:

    DBG has made sure that despite all the investments from CN they are not legally considered their asset, and thats what really counts in the end.
    I would expect no less from weasels. Rewriting history is nothing new to them:

    Then...

    SAN DIEGO – February 2, 2015 – Columbus Nova, an investment management firm based in New York, announced today that it has completed its acquisition of Sony Online Entertainment LLC (SOE), a recognized worldwide leader in massively multiplayer online (MMO) games and emergent gameplay.

    Now...

    Daybreak Game Company has no affiliation with Columbus Nova. Jason Epstein, former member of Columbus Nova, is and has always been the primary owner and executive chairman of Daybreak Game Company (formerly Sony Online Entertainment) which he acquired from Sony in February 2015

    Sounds to me like they're just hiding an asset by putting it under uncle Jason's name.

    http://massivelyop.com/2018/04/24/daybreaks-russian-parent-companys-assets-are-frozen-by-the-u-s-government/


    PhryCazrielGolelorn
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  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,704
    It's always a possibility.  They may try to wiggle their way out of it, but they may fail.  Depends on whether the judge supports companies gaming the system as it were.

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,398
    edited April 2018
    Woops. Looks like they forgot to sanitize one more page:

    Mr. Epstein is responsible for CN’s technology and media investment platform. In this capacity, Mr. Epstein sits on a variety of Boards of Directors, including Rhapsody Music International (Chairman), Day Break Games (Chairman), GenePeeks, and 300

    http://www.columbusnovamb.com/jason-epstein-partner/

    And in case the relevance of this isn't clear enough note the "In this capacity..." part that clearly states that Epstein's relationship with DBG is in the capacity of his position in Columbus Nova.

    This is in direct contradiction to the new narrative that it was Epstein all along, separate from CN who bought and owns DBG.

    I love it when thess weasels get caught out on a lie so easily.

    BTW... his lInkedin has been sanitized already and shows Epstein having left CN in December 2017. I'm sure they'll get around to cleaning up what I linked too so get it while it's hot :)

    PhrySplooshiiMrMelGibson
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,113
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:

    DBG has made sure that despite all the investments from CN they are not legally considered their asset, and thats what really counts in the end.
    I would expect no less from weasels. Rewriting history is nothing new to them:

    Then...

    SAN DIEGO – February 2, 2015 – Columbus Nova, an investment management firm based in New York, announced today that it has completed its acquisition of Sony Online Entertainment LLC (SOE), a recognized worldwide leader in massively multiplayer online (MMO) games and emergent gameplay.

    Now...

    Daybreak Game Company has no affiliation with Columbus Nova. Jason Epstein, former member of Columbus Nova, is and has always been the primary owner and executive chairman of Daybreak Game Company (formerly Sony Online Entertainment) which he acquired from Sony in February 2015

    Sounds to me like they're just hiding an asset by putting it under uncle Jason's name.

    http://massivelyop.com/2018/04/24/daybreaks-russian-parent-companys-assets-are-frozen-by-the-u-s-government/


    Smells like we are driving by a couple farms...

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  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,586
    My guess is that Daybreak would be allowed to continue operating regardless, they would just put in some common sense restrictions whilst any investigations happen. 

    I mean, even if DBG was setup using dirty money, prosecutors are trying to prevent money being channelled back to Russia right? So, DBG could be allowed to continue operating just with some financial restrictions in place (no money to russia!). 


    That said, I tend to agree with DMKano's line of reasoning. Regardless of the initial money used to buy/form the company, I think DBG is likely to be an independent company and not considered an asset of the parent company, so will be allowed to continue operating. 
    Gdemami
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Member RarePosts: 3,476
    They could start having concept sales like Star Citizen.
    SeelinnikoiPhry
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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,941
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    Sounds like DBG are trying to remove all evidence of the links to CN.

    That's to be expected, of course, I have no doubt that CN will do anything in their power to "work around" the asset freeze. I'm sure their lawyers are very busy right now... :wink:


    The reason why they are removing these links is not to hide evidence from courts and legal systems - no that would be not only illegal but completely ineffective.

    they are doing so to not panic the playerbase and lose customers, they are reducing public visibility into their ties with CN.

    Its a PR move

    Again because there is a loophole that will save DBG as an independent company.
    If you read the EQ2 forum thread and twitter of several people inside of whats going on, you will understand that even though it SEEMS that DBG is a separate entity now, the assets they have struck a deal and bought from SOE were using funds from Columbus Nova, and as such are still liable of whats to come.

    Basically, the whole DBG company was created, managed and funded using the CN funds and according to the people citing sources and other law shenanigans, thats like "crime money".

    So yeah, shit hit the fan and it spread far and wide.

    PS: Check massivelyop article to find the Updates on it which include the evidence you need.

    This is why lawyers exist.

    Your and anyone elses opinion on who owns DBG means diddly poo. The only thing that matters is what holds up legally.

    Again you asked if DBG will be shutting down on June 5th - its the title of this thread.

    and again I tell you - no, they wont

    Because of legal loopholes in how DBG operates as a standalone company.
    Arena Net has a similarly "styled" arrangement with NCSoft, that under certain conditions they retain the rights to operate as an independent entity. They are a wholly owned subsidiary so even in that situation a company can operate independently.

    Gamers are like fucking sharks. They smell a little blood and at first opportunity, they go in for the kill. What exactly has Daybreak Games done to warrant this level of nastiness?
    killerqueerMrMelGibson
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  • SeelinnikoiSeelinnikoi Member RarePosts: 1,355
    Torval said:
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    Sounds like DBG are trying to remove all evidence of the links to CN.

    That's to be expected, of course, I have no doubt that CN will do anything in their power to "work around" the asset freeze. I'm sure their lawyers are very busy right now... :wink:


    The reason why they are removing these links is not to hide evidence from courts and legal systems - no that would be not only illegal but completely ineffective.

    they are doing so to not panic the playerbase and lose customers, they are reducing public visibility into their ties with CN.

    Its a PR move

    Again because there is a loophole that will save DBG as an independent company.
    If you read the EQ2 forum thread and twitter of several people inside of whats going on, you will understand that even though it SEEMS that DBG is a separate entity now, the assets they have struck a deal and bought from SOE were using funds from Columbus Nova, and as such are still liable of whats to come.

    Basically, the whole DBG company was created, managed and funded using the CN funds and according to the people citing sources and other law shenanigans, thats like "crime money".

    So yeah, shit hit the fan and it spread far and wide.

    PS: Check massivelyop article to find the Updates on it which include the evidence you need.

    This is why lawyers exist.

    Your and anyone elses opinion on who owns DBG means diddly poo. The only thing that matters is what holds up legally.

    Again you asked if DBG will be shutting down on June 5th - its the title of this thread.

    and again I tell you - no, they wont

    Because of legal loopholes in how DBG operates as a standalone company.
    Arena Net has a similarly "styled" arrangement with NCSoft, that under certain conditions they retain the rights to operate as an independent entity. They are a wholly owned subsidiary so even in that situation a company can operate independently.

    Gamers are like fucking sharks. They smell a little blood and at first opportunity, they go in for the kill. What exactly has Daybreak Games done to warrant this level of nastiness?
    Uh....

    Cash grab pre orders for Landmark and EQN and then "Release" Landmark as it was, an unfinished mess, then shut it down in under 6 months to avoid legal problems that they didnt actually release a game, thus saving their ass from pre order backers...

    They had it coming, I now hope that DBG goes down.
    KidRiskkillerqueerTillerGdemami
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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,398
    Torval said:

    What exactly has Daybreak Games done to warrant this level of nastiness?
    I'm going to go with their piss poor attempts at revising history, AKA lying.

    And which "nastiness" specifically are you seeing from your high vantage point?
     
    killerqueerGdemami
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,941
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:

    What exactly has Daybreak Games done to warrant this level of nastiness?
    I'm going to go with their piss poor attempts at revising history, AKA lying.

    And which "nastiness" specifically are you seeing from your high vantage point?
     
    The one where we're punishing the people at DBG for Smedley and SoE's sins. You're asking that question from your own high soapbox of course.

    They never said they didn't have an association with CN or used their money. They said they're not owned by them and want to remove the public association with the company. I can't think of any company that would do it differently. No one would criticize them for distancing themselves. That doesn't absolve them of financial responsibility to pay back monies owed either and they're not claiming that.

    I was just curious what people felt justified them acting in the crudest, disgusting, and most reprehensible manner by wishing for the worst on others. Now I know. Thanks.
    IselinKidRiskGdemami
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  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    That moment when you thought a studio that was already dead gets reports that it may be dying...


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  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    I hope that EQ1+2 are picked up and supported by another publisher, same with Planetside 2, i think its fairly inevitable that there will be a firesale in any case. :o
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,348
    DMKano said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Ain't that so weird? Daybreak went back to delete the documents where it would be understood the parent company is CN.

    But then they said "mistake corrected" but even their privacy policy had specifically stated:
    "Daybreak Games may share your Personal Information for the purposes described in this Privacy Policy (except for direct marketing) with its parent companies, which consist of Columbus Nova Private Equity Group (“CN”)"

    Makes no sense, is Daybreak lying to save their asses out of this one? Seems like a PR stunt because it shows to be pretty implicit the ties to CN as the parent company.

    Its not so cut and dry when it comes to legally proving that DBG is CNs asset.

    Again what we think and what this looks like to the general public is one thing.

    What it looks like legally - in black and white is another thing entirely.

    DBG has made sure that despite all the investments from CN they are not legally considered their asset, and thats what really counts in the end.
    It really doesn't work that way, determining ownership of a firm is a careful process governed by OFAC Banking guidelines.

    If the government confirms CN owns any part of Daybreak, it becomes a proscribed asset and they can go after it.

    Sure, court battles are fought over stuff like this, but it very well could lead to Daybreak having to prove they've cut all ties with CN, which is what they are currently claiming.

    Likely wont be settled by June 5th as you said though.
    MendelKilraneGdemami

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