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"There are no MMORPGs worth playing anymore" myth or reality?

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Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,614
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.

    Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.
    I'm pretty sure I've played with/grouped with others in both games.

    Obviously you are bitter and jaded.


    KyleranPanther2103
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.

    Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.
    I'm pretty sure I've played with/grouped with others in both games.

    Obviously you are bitter and jaded.



    So you were farming, breeding horses and riding your wagon with other players in BDO? Not to mention ESO - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380502/how-can-i-make-my-single-player-experiance-better-what-should-i-do-opinions-please

    Both games are solo focused. The multiplayer activities including the PvP are pointless. I grouped in Diablo 2, Warcraft 3 to newer games like Dark Souls 3, so are they MMORPGs?

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,614
    edited April 2018
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.

    Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.
    I'm pretty sure I've played with/grouped with others in both games.

    Obviously you are bitter and jaded.



    So you were farming, breeding horses and riding your wagon with other players in BDO?

    No I wasn't. Now your turn to think it through.

    and regarding your link; key phrase: "I just don't know how to."

    I think the problem with you is that you are like that poster, you "don't know how to" and you need others to show you or you need the developers to make it so you don't have to figure it out. That's a shame.
    KyleranPanther2103
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    edited April 2018
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.

    Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.
    I'm pretty sure I've played with/grouped with others in both games.

    Obviously you are bitter and jaded.



    So you were farming, breeding horses and riding your wagon with other players in BDO?

    No I wasn't. Now your turn to think it through.

    and regarding your link; key phrase: "I just don't know how to."

    I think the problem with you is that you are like that poster, you "don't know how to" and you need others to show you or you need the developers to make it so you don't have to figure it out. That's a shame.
    Honestly I do not understand what you mean. If you mean that I should imagine what I'm playing - well I do not need MMO then, I will imagine one with a singleplayer game, obviously some developers - BDO, ESO and etc, makers, expect exactly that from the players, instead to create a multiplayer game.
    Post edited by ikcin on
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 932
    Currently I don't play any MMO. I am waiting for Project TL to see if I can fill my nostalgia of the old Lineage LoA days. If it ends up a disappointment, I'll probably stay out of MMOs for the entire next decade.
  • FelixMajorFelixMajor Member RarePosts: 854
    It's not that the games are not fun, but  the majority of players are soulless husks hooked on the loot grab and gear treadmills.  What happens to smoking a pipe in the tavern talking about all the good shit? The RP needs to make a comeback, the SOUL needs to make a comeback.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,614
    edited April 2018
    ikcin said:

    Honestly I do not understand what you mean. If you mean that I should imagine what I'm playing - well I do not need MMO then, I will imagine one with a singleplayer game, obviously some developers - BDO, ESO and etc, makers, expect exactly that from the players, instead to cerate a multiplayer game.
    So "no" I did not farm or breed horses or ride a wagon. I hate that stuff and that stuff doesn't need to be multiplayer. Though I could see having wagons "attackable" and requiring a guard of players.

    I did group with guild members for grinding and pvp.

    For Elder Scrolls Online, I would be in a dungeon, and if I had a hard time with one of the main "dungeon bosses" I'd group with someone or "someones" and then we might head out and find another to do, maybe stop at one of those anchors on the way.

    You can group in these games if you want to.

    If you are one of those people who need bettah rewards/xp for grouping otherwise you solo because "soloing yields better xp over time" then I can't help you.

    Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.

    And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.

    And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,569
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.

    Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.
    I'm pretty sure I've played with/grouped with others in both games.

    Obviously you are bitter and jaded.



    So you were farming, breeding horses and riding your wagon with other players in BDO?

    No I wasn't. Now your turn to think it through.

    and regarding your link; key phrase: "I just don't know how to."

    I think the problem with you is that you are like that poster, you "don't know how to" and you need others to show you or you need the developers to make it so you don't have to figure it out. That's a shame.
    Honestly I do not understand what you mean. If you mean that I should imagine what I'm playing - well I do not need MMO then, I will imagine one with a singleplayer game, obviously some developers - BDO, ESO and etc, makers, expect exactly that from the players, instead to cerate a multiplayer game.
    You keep referencing BDO as a single player game. Sure you can do a lot of the content solo, but you don't have to. I don't really ever solo grind as I find it boring, I think it's a hell of a lot more fun in a group. PVP is pretty much always a group activity, so I'm a little lost as to why you keep referring to it as a single player game. Just because you can go fishing AFK solo, or go harvesting solo, or grind solo, or even pvp solo doesn't mean it's a solo game. 

    Hell even in games that people "required" grouping in, you could play 100% solo. I leveled up in FFXI pretty much solo the first go around, although it was a hell of a lot harder, I was young and didn't really understand grouping mechanics all that well. 

    ESO is the same situation. You can do it all solo, you can play it like an elder scrolls game and just go do quests and level up, or you can do it in groups and play with other players. My girlfriend plays ESO quite a bit now as she bought it on a sale and she plays almost exclusively in groups, and is constantly chatting with guild members and randoms around the world. 

    You play the game how you want to play. 
    Sovrath
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 2,960
    Any one else think that MMOs grew tiresome because we've been there and done that. I have just done the MMO before and don't feel like doing it again. 


    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 2,282
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.


    Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.

    kjempff said:
    There are 3 kinds of mmo players.

    For me there are two types of players - multiplayer and singleplayer. The first kind want to play with other people, they like PvP, grouping, raids, wars, and any kind of multiplayer activity.

    And as to compete with other people is much more harder and challenging than to beat the AI, these players also like to take risks in games.

    The second kind want to play solo. They dislike PvP or want to do it when they are ready - OP, or equalized, at a safe way. They do not like grouping, and find the raids too hasty.

    The majority of the players are between these two types of behavior. There is not a PvP vs PvE conflict. The actual clash is singleplayer vs multiplayer behavior.

    And the third are those who like grouping, raids, and any kind of muliplayer activity EXCEPT PvP solely due to not wanting to deal with whiny, "nerf everybody but me" crying, get their validation from pixels since they suck in real life, entitled PvPer jagoffs.


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    edited April 2018
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.

    Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.
    I'm pretty sure I've played with/grouped with others in both games.

    Obviously you are bitter and jaded.



    So you were farming, breeding horses and riding your wagon with other players in BDO?

    No I wasn't. Now your turn to think it through.

    and regarding your link; key phrase: "I just don't know how to."

    I think the problem with you is that you are like that poster, you "don't know how to" and you need others to show you or you need the developers to make it so you don't have to figure it out. That's a shame.
    Honestly I do not understand what you mean. If you mean that I should imagine what I'm playing - well I do not need MMO then, I will imagine one with a singleplayer game, obviously some developers - BDO, ESO and etc, makers, expect exactly that from the players, instead to cerate a multiplayer game.
    You keep referencing BDO as a single player game. Sure you can do a lot of the content solo, but you don't have to. I don't really ever solo grind as I find it boring, I think it's a hell of a lot more fun in a group. PVP is pretty much always a group activity, so I'm a little lost as to why you keep referring to it as a single player game. Just because you can go fishing AFK solo, or go harvesting solo, or grind solo, or even pvp solo doesn't mean it's a solo game. 

    Hell even in games that people "required" grouping in, you could play 100% solo. I leveled up in FFXI pretty much solo the first go around, although it was a hell of a lot harder, I was young and didn't really understand grouping mechanics all that well. 

    ESO is the same situation. You can do it all solo, you can play it like an elder scrolls game and just go do quests and level up, or you can do it in groups and play with other players. My girlfriend plays ESO quite a bit now as she bought it on a sale and she plays almost exclusively in groups, and is constantly chatting with guild members and randoms around the world. 

    You play the game how you want to play. 


    Ha. It is a solo game by design. Are you blind or delusional? I mean, yes, there is some multiplayer content. But crafting, trade, taming, gathering, all the afk activities, the PvE is singleplayer. The bosses are also solo, as there are not actual support mechanisms. You can play in party, but you cannot cooperate, as the rules for that as formations or holy trinity are not implemented. I do not know how you can PvP solo in any game. But the existence of PvP does not make a MMORPG. The problem with the PvP in BDO and in ESO, and GW2 too is, that it does not affect the gameplay. Even the node and castle wars do not give any kind of territory control. The PvP is in general completely pointless in these games. It does not matter if you chat or use voice service to talk - as the most people, the gameplay is solo by design. If BDO was a singleplayer game, it would have only one big issue - the very easy mobs. As a MMORPG it is a terrible game.

    Sovrath said:

    Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.

    And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.

    And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
    You are completely missing the point. The solutions should be implemented by the developer. I do not understand the people who complain about bugs, and servers stability, but say nothing about the bad gameplay. When I played BDO I was in guild, did raids, node wars, guild quests even exp parties. But with singleplayer PvE and pointless PvP, the long term goals simply do not exist. And they are essential for any MMORPG. If I want just to PvP, well any action game or moba is far better than BDO. If I want to PvE, well DS games are far better than BDO. But I want to play a MMORPG, and BDO is not such. As a player with L2 and EVE experience you should understand better what I mean.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,115
    4507 said:
    Currently I'm playing an FPS (Verdun), a battle royale (PUBG), a slasher (Vermintide II), and a single player RPG (Skyrim), but I haven't played an MMO in at least a year.

    It's not because I'm hoping to relive some experience I had in 1999 - I played my first MMO (Runescape) in 2007, and the only reason I left it is because they broke the main game, then opened a legacy server and broke that one. What I'm looking for in an MMO should be very simple:

    • No cash shop of any kind, including cosmetics (so subscription based. I'm happy to pay $30/month if it means I don't have to deal with a cash shop)
    • No gear treadmill (give me something at least marginally interesting once I get to level cap, if there is a level cap)
    • Fun and engaging combat (no tab target, click and wait, turn based, etc)
    • Crafting system that actually has a reason to exist (i.e. isn't just there to fill in the gaps between looted gear)
    • No inescapable open world PvP (it's fine in a few zones or if it's flag based)
    Yet there isn't any MMO out there that fulfills all of these conditions, and in fact very few even fulfill more than 2. (if you know a game that does fulfill these, please let me know)

    I'm one of the no cash shop people and that leaves you with a handful of MMOs and some emulators.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,614
    ikcin said:

    Sovrath said:

    Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.

    And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.

    And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
    You are completely missing the point. The solutions should be implemented by the developer. I do not understand the people who complain about bugs, and servers stability, but say nothing about the bad gameplay. When I played BDO I was in guild, did raids, node wars, guild quests even exp parties. But with singleplayer PvE and pointless PvP, the long term goals simply do not exist. And they are essential for any MMORPG. If I want just to PvP, well any action game or moba is far better than BDO. If I want to PvE, well DS games are far better than BDO. But I want to play a MMORPG, and BDO is not such. As a player with L2 and EVE experience you should understand better what I mean.
    Well, apparently I don't require the developers to hold my hand.

    And "yeah" in Lineage 2 I mostly soloed but also grouped when it was fun to do so.

    I just don't require someone to show me the way.

    So yeah I group in black desert and Elder Scrolls Online when it's fun to do so. I define my experience.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:

    Sovrath said:

    Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.

    And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.

    And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
    You are completely missing the point. The solutions should be implemented by the developer. I do not understand the people who complain about bugs, and servers stability, but say nothing about the bad gameplay. When I played BDO I was in guild, did raids, node wars, guild quests even exp parties. But with singleplayer PvE and pointless PvP, the long term goals simply do not exist. And they are essential for any MMORPG. If I want just to PvP, well any action game or moba is far better than BDO. If I want to PvE, well DS games are far better than BDO. But I want to play a MMORPG, and BDO is not such. As a player with L2 and EVE experience you should understand better what I mean.
    Well, apparently I don't require the developers to hold my hand.

    And "yeah" in Lineage 2 I mostly soloed but also grouped when it was fun to do so.

    I just don't require someone to show me the way.

    So yeah I group in black desert and Elder Scrolls Online when it's fun to do so. I define my experience.
    The games have rules, that define the gameplay. If you take a simple game with cards and change the rules, you will have entirely different game. The videogames give more food to the imagination, but still the rules define them. In L2 grouping was meaningful because of the multiplayer competition and there were rules for cooperative playing - the holy trinity. You can play solitaire with another person, cooperatively, but still it is not a multiplayer game.
    cameltosis
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,614
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:

    Sovrath said:

    Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.

    And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.

    And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
    You are completely missing the point. The solutions should be implemented by the developer. I do not understand the people who complain about bugs, and servers stability, but say nothing about the bad gameplay. When I played BDO I was in guild, did raids, node wars, guild quests even exp parties. But with singleplayer PvE and pointless PvP, the long term goals simply do not exist. And they are essential for any MMORPG. If I want just to PvP, well any action game or moba is far better than BDO. If I want to PvE, well DS games are far better than BDO. But I want to play a MMORPG, and BDO is not such. As a player with L2 and EVE experience you should understand better what I mean.
    Well, apparently I don't require the developers to hold my hand.

    And "yeah" in Lineage 2 I mostly soloed but also grouped when it was fun to do so.

    I just don't require someone to show me the way.

    So yeah I group in black desert and Elder Scrolls Online when it's fun to do so. I define my experience.
    The games have rules, that define the gameplay. If you take a simple game with cards and change the rules, you will have entirely different game. The videogames give more food to the imagination, but still the rules define them. In L2 grouping was meaningful because of the multiplayer competition and there were rules for cooperative playing - the holy trinity. You can play solitaire with another person, cooperatively, but still it is not a multiplayer game.
    WE can go back forth all you want but the truth is that there are still people grouping in these games and having fun doing it.

    Your problem is that unless the developers spell it out for you you can't do it. Great, that's your thing but that's not going to stop people from grouping and having fun.

    And as I've said, I soloed more in Lineage 2 than I grouped and got very high level at the time. Do I prefer the world and land ownership in Lineage 2? Absolutely.

    But even if I were to go back to Lineage 2 it would be a different game. So "I" choose Black Desert for now and group when I want.

    The thing is, unless some game comes out that is group focused (Pantheon) you are going to have a hard time ever playing another mmorpg ever again.

    In which case, this genre might be over for you.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:

    Sovrath said:

    Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.

    And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.

    And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
    You are completely missing the point. The solutions should be implemented by the developer. I do not understand the people who complain about bugs, and servers stability, but say nothing about the bad gameplay. When I played BDO I was in guild, did raids, node wars, guild quests even exp parties. But with singleplayer PvE and pointless PvP, the long term goals simply do not exist. And they are essential for any MMORPG. If I want just to PvP, well any action game or moba is far better than BDO. If I want to PvE, well DS games are far better than BDO. But I want to play a MMORPG, and BDO is not such. As a player with L2 and EVE experience you should understand better what I mean.
    Well, apparently I don't require the developers to hold my hand.

    And "yeah" in Lineage 2 I mostly soloed but also grouped when it was fun to do so.

    I just don't require someone to show me the way.

    So yeah I group in black desert and Elder Scrolls Online when it's fun to do so. I define my experience.
    The games have rules, that define the gameplay. If you take a simple game with cards and change the rules, you will have entirely different game. The videogames give more food to the imagination, but still the rules define them. In L2 grouping was meaningful because of the multiplayer competition and there were rules for cooperative playing - the holy trinity. You can play solitaire with another person, cooperatively, but still it is not a multiplayer game.
    WE can go back forth all you want but the truth is that there are still people grouping in these games and having fun doing it.

    Your problem is that unless the developers spell it out for you you can't do it. Great, that's your thing but that's not going to stop people from grouping and having fun.

    And as I've said, I soloed more in Lineage 2 than I grouped and got very high level at the time. Do I prefer the world and land ownership in Lineage 2? Absolutely.

    But even if I were to go back to Lineage 2 it would be a different game. So "I" choose Black Desert for now and group when I want.

    The thing is, unless some game comes out that is group focused (Pantheon) you are going to have a hard time ever playing another mmorpg ever again.

    In which case, this genre might be over for you.
    You do not make the rules, even in EVE, they let to you choose, but that is part of the game. Every MMORPG should be group focused. You say literally - you play as you want, so there are not bad games, if you do not enjoy a game it is your own fault. I think such a point is absurd. For me some MMORPGs are well designed, most are not. Even BDO - it had entirely different rules in the betas. Then they were changed because of the marketing. The gameplay became more and more singleplayer. At the end we all saw what the publisher wants - a mobile game. ESO is catering the ES players, that is why it is singleplayer in the core. GW2 - three different and separated games - moba, PvP arenas, and singleplayer RPG. That is how I see the things. There are very few games on the market that worth the title MMORPG.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,614
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:
    Sovrath said:
    ikcin said:

    Sovrath said:

    Up above you say that to you there are two types of players ... Well, to me there are two types of people, those who Do, who find solutions, who recognize "how it is" and find meaning within that; people who make things happen, and those who complain and prefer gripe because they can't make things happen or things don't manifest how "they think it should be" so they just sit like a lump and look at everything with a jaundiced eye.

    And sadly that translates to life outside of gaming as well.

    And I should apologize for seeming a bit accusatory there but that is my issue; I have problems with people who are the latter and not the former.
    You are completely missing the point. The solutions should be implemented by the developer. I do not understand the people who complain about bugs, and servers stability, but say nothing about the bad gameplay. When I played BDO I was in guild, did raids, node wars, guild quests even exp parties. But with singleplayer PvE and pointless PvP, the long term goals simply do not exist. And they are essential for any MMORPG. If I want just to PvP, well any action game or moba is far better than BDO. If I want to PvE, well DS games are far better than BDO. But I want to play a MMORPG, and BDO is not such. As a player with L2 and EVE experience you should understand better what I mean.
    Well, apparently I don't require the developers to hold my hand.

    And "yeah" in Lineage 2 I mostly soloed but also grouped when it was fun to do so.

    I just don't require someone to show me the way.

    So yeah I group in black desert and Elder Scrolls Online when it's fun to do so. I define my experience.
    The games have rules, that define the gameplay. If you take a simple game with cards and change the rules, you will have entirely different game. The videogames give more food to the imagination, but still the rules define them. In L2 grouping was meaningful because of the multiplayer competition and there were rules for cooperative playing - the holy trinity. You can play solitaire with another person, cooperatively, but still it is not a multiplayer game.
    WE can go back forth all you want but the truth is that there are still people grouping in these games and having fun doing it.

    Your problem is that unless the developers spell it out for you you can't do it. Great, that's your thing but that's not going to stop people from grouping and having fun.

    And as I've said, I soloed more in Lineage 2 than I grouped and got very high level at the time. Do I prefer the world and land ownership in Lineage 2? Absolutely.

    But even if I were to go back to Lineage 2 it would be a different game. So "I" choose Black Desert for now and group when I want.

    The thing is, unless some game comes out that is group focused (Pantheon) you are going to have a hard time ever playing another mmorpg ever again.

    In which case, this genre might be over for you.
    You do not make the rules, even in EVE, they let to you choose, but that is part of the game. Every MMORPG should be group focused. You say literally - you play as you want, so there are not bad games, if you do not enjoy a game it is your own fault. I think such a point is absurd. For me some MMORPGs are well designed, most are not. Even BDO - it had entirely different rules in the betas. Then they were changed because of the marketing. The gameplay became more and more singleplayer. At the end we all saw what the publisher wants - a mobile game. ESO is catering the ES players, that is why it is singleplayer in the core. GW2 - three different and separated games - moba, PvP arenas, and singleplayer RPG. That is how I see the things. There are very few games on the market that worth the title MMORPG.
    Well ...

    A, great, that's your opinion all around and not one that I share. MY opinion is that these things should be worlds and sometimes things are going to require large amounts of people and sometimes not. Having a fully group oriented mmo is more "game" than world because in the real world we don't spend every hour of our time with other people. Heck, I'm an extrovert and I don't spend all my time with people.

    This is ok, I'm fine with games being more "one thing or another". But my idea of an mmo is "world".

    B, then what I said stands and unless you decide to join Pantheon this genre is going to be over for you. Unless you know of another mmo(rpg) that is coming down the pike. Maybe Ashes? I would find it hard to believe that Ashes of Creation will be solely group content.

    Otherwise, all you will be doing is wailing and gnashing your teeth. That might be good for you but I don't think most people will find that a good way to be.
    Panther2103
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    Sovrath said:
    Well ...

    A, great, that's your opinion all around and not one that I share. MY opinion is that these things should be worlds and sometimes things are going to require large amounts of people and sometimes not. Having a fully group oriented mmo is more "game" than world because in the real world we don't spend every hour of our time with other people. Heck, I'm an extrovert and I don't spend all my time with people.

    This is ok, I'm fine with games being more "one thing or another". But my idea of an mmo is "world".

    B, then what I said stands and unless you decide to join Pantheon this genre is going to be over for you. Unless you know of another mmo(rpg) that is coming down the pike. Maybe Ashes? I would find it hard to believe that Ashes of Creation will be solely group content.

    Otherwise, all you will be doing is wailing and gnashing your teeth. That might be good for you but I don't think most people will find that a good way to be.
    I do not feel urgent need to play video games. Anyway, as there is not a MMORPG to play, I play mobas, like many other people.
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,223
    edited April 2018
    Oh I dislike PvP so I would not have PvPed in BDO in any case.  I enjoyed the world chatting with others in game and talking about trade routes and breeding horses. 

    I am playing in a world with other people. It is not a single player game at all. I need to trade and prices fluctuate on the trading depending on what others are selling. I am interacting with others. I also completed that scroll thing cannot recall exactly the term, the one for killing bosses with other people in groups.

    Problem with you @ikcin is it's my way or the highway definition. We all play games differently.

    Ever since I started in Everquest in 1999 I have always participated in online worlds and that includes talking and socializing. You don't consider that as playing in an online world but I disagree. You're miserable in this quest of yours I'm not. I find pleasure in other games and you find faults. I think I prefer my view since I have fun in games like ESO , BDO .

    When I was playing Everquest 2 I had one goal mainly and that was to decorate various homes I owned so my grouping consisted of trying to get rare drops of monster parts for lore and legend and for getting rare crafting materials. By your definition I was probably playing a single player game but I was in many, many groups playing and getting my materials and then crafting and arranging my furniture for hours. I was also a paid interior decorator in EQ2. I was very,very happy in that game. There is a thread I created here on the forums where I logged in EQ2 and took screenshots and put them all up here. Lot of people commented on the sheer amount of time I must have devoted to the house. Lot of the materials I could not have soloed they dropped off raids. You have no idea how rewarding it was to craft and see what you created in Everquest 2 and without other people helping me I would not have been able to do that.

    My adventuring in EQ2 was only incidental when I needed to raise my carpentry or other crafter. I made money by playing every single crafter and selling and people would visit my homes and tell me what a beautiful home I had. Here you're telling me I was just playing a single player game when I could not have exhibited my home if others did not visit it.

    I am playing Path of Exile right now and I interact with others in that game too everyday. I am currently visiting hideouts to see how others decorate them and getting tips from them on how to create a look. I also spend a lot of time helping people complete labyrinth and helping others. Perhaps searching for definitions and sticking to them isn't the way to enjoy games. Try to find joy in them instead. I'd like to know who said that the only way to play an online game with others is to kill them and get territory or grouping for that purpose. How limited in imagination is that exercise?
    Post edited by cheyane on
    Demogorgon
    Martens: "With all due respect, madam, where are you going with this?"
    Avasarala: "Wherever I goddamn like."
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,317
    Gorwe said:
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.


    Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.

    kjempff said:
    There are 3 kinds of mmo players.

    For me there are two types of players - multiplayer and singleplayer. The first kind want to play with other people, they like PvP, grouping, raids, wars, and any kind of multiplayer activity.

    And as to compete with other people is much more harder and challenging than to beat the AI, these players also like to take risks in games.

    The second kind want to play solo. They dislike PvP or want to do it when they are ready - OP, or equalized, at a safe way. They do not like grouping, and find the raids too hasty.

    The majority of the players are between these two types of behavior. There is not a PvP vs PvE conflict. The actual clash is singleplayer vs multiplayer behavior.

    One could almost say...Introversion and Extraversion? ;)

    Nothing like a bit of pop psychology in gaming to sort out player issues that have been dogging us for decades. :)
    GorweKyleran

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211
    cheyane said:
    Oh I dislike PvP so I would not have PvPed in BDO in any case.  I enjoyed the world chatting with others in game and talking about trade routes and breeding horses. 

    I am playing in a world with other people. It is not a single player game at all. I need to trade and prices fluctuate on the trading depending on what others are selling. I am interacting with others. I also completed that scroll thing cannot recall exactly the term, the one for killing bosses with other people in groups.

    Problem with you @ikcin is it's my way or the highway definition. We all play games differently.

    Ever since I started in Everquest in 1999 I have always participated in online worlds and that includes talking and socializing. You don't consider that as playing in an online world but I disagree. You're miserable in this quest of yours I'm not. I find pleasure in other games and you find faults. I think I prefer my view since I have fun in games like ESO , BDO .

    When I was playing Everquest 2 I had one goal mainly and that was to decorate various homes I owned so my grouping consisted of trying to get rare drops of monster parts for lore and legend and for getting rare crafting materials. By your definition I was probably playing a single player game but I was in many, many groups playing and getting my materials and then crafting and arranging my furniture for hours. I was also a paid interior decorator in EQ2. I was very,very happy in that game. There is a thread I created here on the forums where I logged in EQ2 and took screenshots and put them all up here. Lot of people commented on the sheer amount of time I must have devoted to the house. Lot of the materials I could not have soloed they dropped off raids. You have no idea how rewarding it was to craft and see what you created in Everquest 2 and without other people helping me I would not have been able to do that.

    My adventuring in EQ2 was only incidental when I needed to raise my carpentry or other crafter. I made money by playing every single crafter and selling and people would visit my homes and tell me what a beautiful home I had. Here you're telling me I was just playing a single player game when I could not have exhibited my home if others did not visit it.

    I am playing Path of Exile right now and I interact with others in that game too everyday. I am currently visiting hideouts to see how others decorate them and getting tips from them on how to create a look. I also spend a lot of time helping people complete labyrinth and helping others. Perhaps searching for definitions and sticking to them isn't the way to enjoy games. Try to find joy in them instead. I'd like to know who said that the only way to play an online game with others is to kill them and get territory or grouping for that purpose. How limited in imagination is that exercise?
    Chat is not playing, also the auction house. If that is your "multiplayer" activity in BDO you play a singleplayer game. I see the games as they are, without all the visual delusion - algorithms for physics and sets of rules. My point is just objective. Do not get me wrong I enjoy the beauty of design, but I do not fall so deep into my personal delusion to stop seeing the game.
    Demogorgon
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,211

    It is more complicated. The pure introverts are the best team players, as the pure extroverts are the leaders. I'm ISTP - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers–Briggs_Type_Indicator#/media/File:MyersBriggsTypes.png

    But for the games, it is singleplayer vs multiplayer.

    Demogorgon
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,317
    Gorwe said:
    Scot said:
    Gorwe said:
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    I think BDO, ESO are great games. I loved BDO. I loved farming and breeding horses and riding my wagon.


    Obviously you love singleplayer games, as none of that is multiplayer.

    kjempff said:
    There are 3 kinds of mmo players.

    For me there are two types of players - multiplayer and singleplayer. The first kind want to play with other people, they like PvP, grouping, raids, wars, and any kind of multiplayer activity.

    And as to compete with other people is much more harder and challenging than to beat the AI, these players also like to take risks in games.

    The second kind want to play solo. They dislike PvP or want to do it when they are ready - OP, or equalized, at a safe way. They do not like grouping, and find the raids too hasty.

    The majority of the players are between these two types of behavior. There is not a PvP vs PvE conflict. The actual clash is singleplayer vs multiplayer behavior.

    One could almost say...Introversion and Extraversion? ;)

    Nothing like a bit of pop psychology in gaming to sort out player issues that have been dogging us for decades. :)

    It is proven psychology. Whether it is pop is irrelevant. Now, MBTI, Enneagram etc are all perfect examples of pop psychology. Big 5 isn't. Though MBTI seems to want to transcend its limitations.

    Besides, you can't overlook how some players don't care at all about other people or use them as means to an end while others enjoy chatting, partying, RPing etc. Basically, it'd come down to this question:

    Group Experience is:

    -> Annoying, useless and boring
    -> Exciting, enriching and interesting

    While I do like discussing things, I'd peg myself into category number 1. The lack of discipline of an average PUG player and that my own fun depends on someone else actually pisses all over my fun. If I want to have fun, I don't want to depend on anyone else. It's either fun or it isn't. For true Extraverts, that isn't true. They don't really care about the object as much as they care about their company, emotional atmosphere etc

    This is impossible not to notice.

    I am not saying there is no rational here, but easy fit pop psychology has a tendency to...fit easily into any given issue. The idea that all people can be put into one of only two groups is just a huge generalisation. But the idea that we can have elements of such behaviour, then certainly I agree.

    An individual will not find all group experience boring or interesting, it depends on what the experience is. Lets take a person who prefers to live with other people, not on their own; is this because they are extrovert, they lived with a lot of siblings when younger or because living with a lot of siblings made them somewhat extrovert? It just does not have the nuance to be applied with any certainty. But then I think that's the case of psychology in general, guess work that passes as a science.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,223
    edited April 2018
    ikcin said:
    cheyane said:
    Oh I dislike PvP so I would not have PvPed in BDO in any case.  I enjoyed the world chatting with others in game and talking about trade routes and breeding horses. 

    I am playing in a world with other people. It is not a single player game at all. I need to trade and prices fluctuate on the trading depending on what others are selling. I am interacting with others. I also completed that scroll thing cannot recall exactly the term, the one for killing bosses with other people in groups.

    Problem with you @ikcin is it's my way or the highway definition. We all play games differently.

    Ever since I started in Everquest in 1999 I have always participated in online worlds and that includes talking and socializing. You don't consider that as playing in an online world but I disagree. You're miserable in this quest of yours I'm not. I find pleasure in other games and you find faults. I think I prefer my view since I have fun in games like ESO , BDO .

    When I was playing Everquest 2 I had one goal mainly and that was to decorate various homes I owned so my grouping consisted of trying to get rare drops of monster parts for lore and legend and for getting rare crafting materials. By your definition I was probably playing a single player game but I was in many, many groups playing and getting my materials and then crafting and arranging my furniture for hours. I was also a paid interior decorator in EQ2. I was very,very happy in that game. There is a thread I created here on the forums where I logged in EQ2 and took screenshots and put them all up here. Lot of people commented on the sheer amount of time I must have devoted to the house. Lot of the materials I could not have soloed they dropped off raids. You have no idea how rewarding it was to craft and see what you created in Everquest 2 and without other people helping me I would not have been able to do that.

    My adventuring in EQ2 was only incidental when I needed to raise my carpentry or other crafter. I made money by playing every single crafter and selling and people would visit my homes and tell me what a beautiful home I had. Here you're telling me I was just playing a single player game when I could not have exhibited my home if others did not visit it.

    I am playing Path of Exile right now and I interact with others in that game too everyday. I am currently visiting hideouts to see how others decorate them and getting tips from them on how to create a look. I also spend a lot of time helping people complete labyrinth and helping others. Perhaps searching for definitions and sticking to them isn't the way to enjoy games. Try to find joy in them instead. I'd like to know who said that the only way to play an online game with others is to kill them and get territory or grouping for that purpose. How limited in imagination is that exercise?
    Chat is not playing, also the auction house. If that is your "multiplayer" activity in BDO you play a singleplayer game. I see the games as they are, without all the visual delusion - algorithms for physics and sets of rules. My point is just objective. Do not get me wrong I enjoy the beauty of design, but I do not fall so deep into my personal delusion to stop seeing the game.
    What auction house? I am talking about trading with the wagons and NPCs going from place to place selling the goods I got my workers to make. Did you even play BDO?

    You're a waste of time to talk to. Of course chatting is interaction. You have no concept of multiplayer games. You're so hung up on your ideas you have lost the the joy of interaction in games.
    Martens: "With all due respect, madam, where are you going with this?"
    Avasarala: "Wherever I goddamn like."
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,676
    edited April 2018
    I find no shortage of MMOs to play. I think the lack of new MMOs is the issue, but that seems like it is going to start not being as bad starting with the release of Bless. 

    The MMOs I think are worth playing, to some degree are GW2, BDO,WoW,Archeage (with FS only), Blade & Soul, ESO, FF14, and SWTOR. Those are the ones that I feel get the most content updates and are worth revisiting from time to time. Personally I don't think any current MMOs are games you want to stick with for more then a couple of months though. 
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