For me the problem is two fold too many action orientated options which I do poorly in and too many PvP with no option to not PvP except to not play. So choices are lousy but older games still are there thankfully for me to play.
What that crosses off like ArcheAge, EVE and a ton of indie titles? It doesn't seem widespread enough to present a major problem to anyone really unless you get fixated on the tiny of minority of MMOs you can't play if you see that as a problem and ignore the vast majority you can.
Do you play Korean games because I enjoy them and most of them are action orientated with no option to opt out of PvP. Blade and Soul did but the combat in that was too hard. I wanted to play Ashes of Creation but it has PvP too I notice. I played BDO which was a great game I enjoyed.
You are looking at things from your perspective from mine the coming games with the exception of Pantheon will be slim pickings for me. Crowfall, Camelot Unchained are all PvP. I also cannot play first person because I get awful headaches and nausea so although I wanted to play Destiny I could not plus I think the combat is too hard for me in that and it was a first person perspective.
Severely limited as time is passing and I am growing older. I am almost 60 years old.
This has resonance for me. I live in a household of 4 MMO players; but aside from an occasional run through ESO, none of us play MMOs now. Too many PvP and action based game models. Especially for the folks who worked as MMO gms, and dealt with griefing and ganking all day. They won't play any PvP games. Period.
I'm going to give Crowfall a run, as they seem to have a grasp of the issues that come with PvP, and they've designed some good solutions, imo.
But otherwise, there's not much out there at present. So for us, it's Reality.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I am struggling to find a game that I like. But I respect that millions and millions of other gamers seem to be finding ones they like. It sounds like a break up line. No, really, it's me not you...
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
That's mainly an issue with the stagnation of MMOs. There aren't major MMOs really coming out anymore but of the last ones to come out it's GW2, FF14, and ESO. So non-action based (Other than ESO a bit I guess) with no forced PvP.
The Kickstarter titles for the most part are being developed for groups who are super frustrated there are no good titles for them to play. And that's mainly PvP and sandbox enthusiasts. Because about 95% of the existing games on the market and 99% of the ones developed by serious game development companies include no major PvP focus and tab-targeted combat where character stats totally eclipse player skill.
In order for PVErs to become the market focus again I think a major PVE niche will need to be found who doesn't already have an existing MMO that perfectly caters to their needs.
I am struggling to find a game that I like. But I respect that millions and millions of other gamers seem to be finding ones they like. It sounds like a break up line. No, really, it's me not you...
The sad thing is that am playing old dosbox games and some catan online against the bots.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Not again. Why is it that every month or two someone starts a thread like this? You know it's not true. Games are offering less than ever before. They are literally cutting out things that used to be offered in games, like housing. They aren't expanding at all. And it started with LOTRO. Before that we didn't have linear games like this. So please... you know better.
Though this extreme position is often put forth in game forums, it is
undermined immediately by the fact that millions still feel some MMORPGs
are worth playing.
Well I think it is "nothing like it was before" but I also think we have some MMOs worth playing. I have noticed I don't play them for exactly the same reasons now, less roleplaying, less community. But guilds do partly make up for that.
If you've been playing MMOs for a long time, you will have gained a lot of experience about a vast variety of designs. You will have seen what works well and what doesn't, not only for your own personal tastes but for the wider community in general.
If you are anything like me, this experience that you've gained results in you spotting problems much earlier. I personally get so frustrated seeing developers making the same mistakes over and over again. How can they not learn?! Why are they crippling their game before it even launches?!
This then results in a situation where no game on the market will offer you long term fun. There might be a few mechanics or quests that you might enjoy for a short period of time, but if you are trying to live in a virtual world then each visit back just highlights the poor design decisions made.
Now, if you're new to the genre, you lack this experience and can remain blissfully ignorant. It's going to take you a while to start discovering the design flaws for yourself and even longer to start working out the solutions. For example, take something like crafting. It's utter garbage in most MMOs, not only is it completely uninspiring to do, the output is often worthless too. If you're a newbie, that's not going to bother you, but if you're a vet who has played something like SWG then you know how great crafting could be.
Then there is the personal enjoyment. Getting frustrated when developers make the same mistakes over and over doesn't have to happen, we shouldn't really be judging a game on what it's missing but rather on what it has delivered. Again, experience gets in the way. Repetition of any activity will eventually lead to boredom. I've not even played that many MMORPGs but I've played enough to dread the leveling quest grind. I fucking hate it. Boring combat, easy mobs, generic quests....fuck that shit. Sure, I enjoyed leveling in SWG. I still enjoyed it a bit in LotRO. But haven't been able to enjoy it since. This isn't to say that leveling has gotten worse over the last 15 years, it's probably gotten better. It just hasn't gotten much better, and the repetition of the activity has made it boring faster than the improvements have made it better.
Finally, experience gives you (or at least should give you...) good personal insight into what you actually do enjoy. Where do you genuinely get your enjoyment from an MMO? What are your red lines in the sand? From my gaming experience, I came up with 4 requirements for any MMO that I want to play. If any of them are missing them I am guaranteed to not have a good time over the long term. For me, these are:
Strong IP - I have to want to actually live in the world. This rules out generic IPs like RIFT as well as most Asian IPs as they don't appeal to me at all.
Deep Combat System - I am a combat focused player so I want the combat mechanics to remain engaging for months/years. This has so far ruled out every action combat game as the combat is too shallow.
Objective-based World PvP - basically, fighting over keeps and objectives with lots of other players. This sense of scale cannot be found in any other genre and it's my favourite activity.
Horizontal Progression - power gaps ruin communities. It destroys the pvp community every single time, but it also slowly kills off the PvE community.
These points will be different for everyone, based on their own experience and playstyles. I'm endgame focused, pvp and pve, with a strong focus on the community which is why I require these features. It means I haven't found an MMO worth playing in many years now. ESO is the only game that came close, but after trying it the combat was too shallow (and the power gaps were too big, but that came later). Luckily, Camelot Unchained meets all my requirements so I might finally have an MMO worth playing, but we'll have to wait and see.
One final thought. This issue with experience affects all art forms. The more books I read, the more films I watch and the more music I listen to, the more I learn about what works well and what is stupid, as well as my own preferences. For example, dialogue in movies. It is something that movie directors seem to get wrong a lot of the time. When I was younger I didn't know better so just accepted shit dialogue, but having now seen tons of movies with awesome dialogue I can no longer stand bad speeches. How can a director make a movie and not notice that their actors and actresses sound like complete idiots?!? It's just words, if your first draft doesn't sound good keep fucking working on it! The cost to write good dialogue is minimal, it may take you 100 attempts to get right but it's just writing words of paper and then speaking them! Do 100 iterations off-camera and then when you've got it right, then film it properly.
The main difference between other art forms and gaming is choice. If I get irritated with a film due to shit dialogue, I can turn it off and choose from 1000s of others. That choice doesn't exist in MMOs. There aren't many MMOs, most of them follow the same mechanics, and we have to wait years for new releases.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think it's crazy that I unironically hold this belief with confidence...
But, I think Runescape, either Old-School or Runescape 3 are actually very sound MMOs if you have never played them before and have a pretty rewarding end-game with it's open ended PvP.
Nothing will ever catch that early mmorpg magic were all looking for like some poor drug addict. Maybe one of these games coming out this year could be good. Hard to say anymore...I still live in the past about old characters from games and peruse the old forums remembering how great I was in this or that game. Then I watch Nugenix commercials and I have hope....hehe
Currently I'm playing an FPS (Verdun), a battle royale (PUBG), a slasher (Vermintide II), and a single player RPG (Skyrim), but I haven't played an MMO in at least a year.
It's not because I'm hoping to relive some experience I had in 1999 - I played my first MMO (Runescape) in 2007, and the only reason I left it is because they broke the main game, then opened a legacy server and broke that one. What I'm looking for in an MMO should be very simple:
No cash shop of any kind, including cosmetics (so subscription based. I'm happy to pay $30/month if it means I don't have to deal with a cash shop)
No gear treadmill (give me something at least marginally interesting once I get to level cap, if there is a level cap)
Fun and engaging combat (no tab target, click and wait, turn based, etc)
Crafting system that actually has a reason to exist (i.e. isn't just there to fill in the gaps between looted gear)
No inescapable open world PvP (it's fine in a few zones or if it's flag based)
Yet there isn't any MMO out there that fulfills all of these conditions, and in fact very few even fulfill more than 2. (if you know a game that does fulfill these, please let me know)
I think it's crazy that I unironically hold this belief with confidence...
But, I think Runescape, either Old-School or Runescape 3 are actually very sound MMOs if you have never played them before and have a pretty rewarding end-game with it's open ended PvP.
Runescape was my first MMO. Things I like about it:
1. The plethora of skills gives you many activities to take part it. 2. The plethora of mini games gives you a lot of cool little side distractions. 3. The quests don't all suck. Runescape doesn't do cut and paste quests and some of them are legitimately really cool. 4. Dungeoneering is the best dungeon system I have ever seen. The fully randomized dungeons are visionary, and should honestly become industry standard. 5. It's a very old game. There is a lot of quests, there are a lot of items, there is a lot to do in general.
Things I don't like about Runescape:
1. 95% of game time is spent doing the same mind-numblingly boring tasks over and over and over and over and over to level various skills. 2. The graphics are not good. They have their charm but a lot of people will not like them. 3. The combat is pretty meh. It's not as bad as it once was but it's still not very good.
The only thing I don't like about Runescape is the User Interface and the way it functions, but a game like ArcFall is looking pretty promising, Runescape by any means isn't a bad game.
Crow Fall / Ashes OF Creation is the way to go I say though at least for now
Upcoming games would be "AIR" and "Monster Hunter World" I have no idea how Pay 2 Enjoy or Pay 2 Win these games will be though but i've lost my faith in most Korean MMORPG because most are either Pay 2 Win or Pay 2 Enjoy, only game that isn't like this is "Black Desert".
Currently Only Black Desert & ESO are even worth playing in my eyes that are actually released.
I tried Dark Fall in early Beta, but it was too laggy perhaps this has changed but the overall game from what it used to be was great.
I get the feeling that a lot of people are frustrated with the games they are playing because they are focusing more on what they could be, rather than what they actually are.
I enjoyed my time in all the mmorpgs I've played and I'm enjoying my time in the current one too. I just don't believe in mmorpgs that can keep my occupied indefinitely (for years), like my early gaming days. That's both because boredom sets in faster these days and the gaming choices (not just mmorpgs but overall) are vastly superior than they used to be.
I remember stopping playing an mmorpg to play Kingdom Come: Deliverance at the time. Then when I got bored, I moved to a different mmorpg. Then Vermintide 2 came out and took a small break too. Didn't change mmorpg this time, but shared time between the two. And so on.
If I would name two issues that I have with the current mmorpg offering, they would be:
Cash shops everywhere. I pay subscription to any mmorpg that offers it and completely ignore the cash shop. If the cash shop can't be ignored by the subscription, then I unsubscribe and put that mmorpg in my ignore list. If the mmorpg doesn't even offer subscription, that's a red flag for me that the mmorpg is build on bad foundations.
Too much forced PvP, too little cooperative gameplay. That's unfortunately the trend of the latest releases, especially the ones coming from the Asian developers. While PvP can be a cooperative gameplay, in most cases it is presented as an extra hindrance to other activities.
Do I have an mmorpg I'm looking forward to? No, I don't. At this point I'm more interested in what is offered than what is promised to be offered. If an mmorpg is not out, I usually don't bother with it. And I consider it lenient towards mmorpgs, since single player games I don't buy until after a month from release, when the dust has settled, the glaring bugs were patched and the gamers gave a more rounded opinion about them.
I have zero interest in a pvp mmorpg.I know what it does to ruin the PVE and pve is what i seek anyhow.
If i want to pvp i play fps's games where the design is better suited to pvp and a level playing field "latency aside". When i see a game focuses on pvp i know automatically the developer has no money and aims for a CHEAP game build. Strategy is VERY low in a rpg pvp game,like VERY low and in MANY likely MOST cases people are using add-ons to gain an edge. I pvp straight up,NO addons of any kind,no gear to gain advantage,just my thinking/strat/aim versus yours.
Overweatch is sort of how it should be done,in an arena type map setting however Blizzard seriously has no clue how to do ANY genre properly,so OW becomes an UNBALANCED mess and pvp should NEVER be unbalanced. UT99 and Quake is how pvp should be played,ev1 on the same level playing field.
I disagree because PVP makes the PVE more interesting and exciting just simply by allowing it to happen. Even though games like Vanguard spent little to no time working on the PVP side of the game (think they possibly did a few hotfixes in a couple patches but that was all) while everything else was put into working on PVE. Almost all PVP games mostly focus on the PVE. Perfecting combat doesn't mean they are working on PVP, because it makes the PVE funner as well.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Not again. Why is it that every month or two someone starts a thread like this? You know it's not true. Games are offering less than ever before. They are literally cutting out things that used to be offered in games, like housing. They aren't expanding at all. And it started with LOTRO. Before that we didn't have linear games like this. So please... you know better.
Well I suggest not giving up your search because it is posts like yours which had discouraged me from giving a game like Star Trek Online a chance and I am having a lot of fun with it but with all the new games that had come out last year and this year I do not even have time to play it. I am totally booked when it comes to online gaming at the moment. A bit too many options for me to handle so just a casual player in more than one game.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Currently I'm playing an FPS (Verdun), a battle royale (PUBG), a slasher (Vermintide II), and a single player RPG (Skyrim), but I haven't played an MMO in at least a year.
It's not because I'm hoping to relive some experience I had in 1999 - I played my first MMO (Runescape) in 2007, and the only reason I left it is because they broke the main game, then opened a legacy server and broke that one. What I'm looking for in an MMO should be very simple:
No cash shop of any kind, including cosmetics (so subscription based. I'm happy to pay $30/month if it means I don't have to deal with a cash shop)
No gear treadmill (give me something at least marginally interesting once I get to level cap, if there is a level cap)
Fun and engaging combat (no tab target, click and wait, turn based, etc)
Crafting system that actually has a reason to exist (i.e. isn't just there to fill in the gaps between looted gear)
No inescapable open world PvP (it's fine in a few zones or if it's flag based)
Yet there isn't any MMO out there that fulfills all of these conditions, and in fact very few even fulfill more than 2. (if you know a game that does fulfill these, please let me know)
Wow you should play one of the Darkfall's... there are two of them now, different versions from each other. New Dawn and Rise of Agon. Crafting is a bit more valuable in New Dawn but Rise of Agon allows every person to craft anything they want if they put enough time into it.
The open world PVP is possible everywhere but extremely easy to avoid if you aren't in the mood for PVP or whatever... in fact the only place it is guaranteed to be found right now is while capturing village control points, going to a player city siege, or a suicide run to a hotspot where enemies can always be found. Its as easy to avoid PVP as it is being able to flag yourself invulnerable to PVP like in Asheron's Call or something like that. Seriously... you get load lag whenever someone is entering your area before you even see them typically so that gives you plenty of time to get away if you do not want to risk a fight but its almost never going to be an enemy if the grind in certain areas.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Id say reality because the ones i used to enjoy changed a lot to where i no longer feel like playing any of them.The last game i logged into was Wow and have no inkling to go back.
In case of the original 3,i don't feel the devs made any good decisions.EQ for example was simply Smedley looking for a greedier way to get MORE money from the spenders where as 15 bucks a month was the most he could get. in case of FFXI change did absolutely NOTHING to conform to a market,it is the same market and the changes did not bnring any new players,so they simply made change to copy Blizzard which seems to be Square Enix's new business model which is very sad to see. In case of Wow,i see a game that looks similar to the way EQ2 was dumbed down,i now see Wow has become worse so devs are looking for easier ways to operate a game.Example why put all the effort and work into making pets a lot different when you can just make them all act like normal pets,why create multiple zones for leveling when you can just use the ones you have and cater them to every level,i see a very lazy business model. As for cash shops,they do NOTHING to make a game better,they are only their for selfish greed because they are not even designed to be fair either.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Honestly think that I have spent a bit too much time gaming and need to settle into creating things to build better games and fantasy for the future. I definitely would rather play a game over watching TV or movies though... just seems much more intelligent.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
This has resonance for me. I live in a household of 4 MMO players; but aside from an occasional run through ESO, none of us play MMOs now. Too many PvP and action based game models. Especially for the folks who worked as MMO gms, and dealt with griefing and ganking all day. They won't play any PvP games. Period.
I'm going to give Crowfall a run, as they seem to have a grasp of the issues that come with PvP, and they've designed some good solutions, imo.
But otherwise, there's not much out there at present. So for us, it's Reality.
And what are these PvP MMORPGs? As I do not know even one new released. There are EVE, the old L2 - on private servers, and old games like Darkfall and Mortal, that are certainly behind L2 as quality. All new games, are solo (I will not say PvE, because in games like BDO the PvE is the worst and most singleplayer part).
Likely referring to ArcheAge, Black Desert, Albion Online, and SotA as recently released "PVP" MMORPGs.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'M hoping for more game companies do the open world single player RPG's. I have been playing mmo's since 2000. For me i don't see any up coming games worth my time as they all do the same thing as the old ones. I don't want to pay a monthly sub.to any of them anymore. Back in those early days at one point i was paying monthly subs. to 3 mmo's at once. Maybe its burnout or maybe its i'm older who knows. I just know i don't like what alot of these game companies are doing these days. Alot of shady stuff seem to be coming out lately.
Complete myth. You've more choice now than ever. You've all the classic school(Ultima, DAoC, EQ 1), all the old school(WoW Vanilla, Guild Wars 1, EQ 2, EvE) and all the new school(SWTOR, GW 2, ESO, TSW etc) MMOs available!
What more do you want? Ok, the future of MMOs is kinda in question, but you've got enough MMOs to choose to fill every ounce of your free time to the brim!
Something new and fresh, decent quality and doesn't suck?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
I'm going to give Crowfall a run, as they seem to have a grasp of the issues that come with PvP, and they've designed some good solutions, imo.
But otherwise, there's not much out there at present. So for us, it's Reality.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
The Kickstarter titles for the most part are being developed for groups who are super frustrated there are no good titles for them to play. And that's mainly PvP and sandbox enthusiasts. Because about 95% of the existing games on the market and 99% of the ones developed by serious game development companies include no major PvP focus and tab-targeted combat where character stats totally eclipse player skill.
In order for PVErs to become the market focus again I think a major PVE niche will need to be found who doesn't already have an existing MMO that perfectly caters to their needs.
The sad thing is that am playing old dosbox games and some catan online against the bots.
Java Settlers of Catan: http://nand.net/jsettlers/
I can do this lazily while watching netflix.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Though this extreme position is often put forth in game forums, it is undermined immediately by the fact that millions still feel some MMORPGs are worth playing.
If you've been playing MMOs for a long time, you will have gained a lot of experience about a vast variety of designs. You will have seen what works well and what doesn't, not only for your own personal tastes but for the wider community in general.
If you are anything like me, this experience that you've gained results in you spotting problems much earlier. I personally get so frustrated seeing developers making the same mistakes over and over again. How can they not learn?! Why are they crippling their game before it even launches?!
This then results in a situation where no game on the market will offer you long term fun. There might be a few mechanics or quests that you might enjoy for a short period of time, but if you are trying to live in a virtual world then each visit back just highlights the poor design decisions made.
Now, if you're new to the genre, you lack this experience and can remain blissfully ignorant. It's going to take you a while to start discovering the design flaws for yourself and even longer to start working out the solutions. For example, take something like crafting. It's utter garbage in most MMOs, not only is it completely uninspiring to do, the output is often worthless too. If you're a newbie, that's not going to bother you, but if you're a vet who has played something like SWG then you know how great crafting could be.
Then there is the personal enjoyment. Getting frustrated when developers make the same mistakes over and over doesn't have to happen, we shouldn't really be judging a game on what it's missing but rather on what it has delivered. Again, experience gets in the way. Repetition of any activity will eventually lead to boredom. I've not even played that many MMORPGs but I've played enough to dread the leveling quest grind. I fucking hate it. Boring combat, easy mobs, generic quests....fuck that shit. Sure, I enjoyed leveling in SWG. I still enjoyed it a bit in LotRO. But haven't been able to enjoy it since. This isn't to say that leveling has gotten worse over the last 15 years, it's probably gotten better. It just hasn't gotten much better, and the repetition of the activity has made it boring faster than the improvements have made it better.
Finally, experience gives you (or at least should give you...) good personal insight into what you actually do enjoy. Where do you genuinely get your enjoyment from an MMO? What are your red lines in the sand? From my gaming experience, I came up with 4 requirements for any MMO that I want to play. If any of them are missing them I am guaranteed to not have a good time over the long term. For me, these are:
These points will be different for everyone, based on their own experience and playstyles. I'm endgame focused, pvp and pve, with a strong focus on the community which is why I require these features. It means I haven't found an MMO worth playing in many years now. ESO is the only game that came close, but after trying it the combat was too shallow (and the power gaps were too big, but that came later). Luckily, Camelot Unchained meets all my requirements so I might finally have an MMO worth playing, but we'll have to wait and see.
One final thought. This issue with experience affects all art forms. The more books I read, the more films I watch and the more music I listen to, the more I learn about what works well and what is stupid, as well as my own preferences. For example, dialogue in movies. It is something that movie directors seem to get wrong a lot of the time. When I was younger I didn't know better so just accepted shit dialogue, but having now seen tons of movies with awesome dialogue I can no longer stand bad speeches. How can a director make a movie and not notice that their actors and actresses sound like complete idiots?!? It's just words, if your first draft doesn't sound good keep fucking working on it! The cost to write good dialogue is minimal, it may take you 100 attempts to get right but it's just writing words of paper and then speaking them! Do 100 iterations off-camera and then when you've got it right, then film it properly.
The main difference between other art forms and gaming is choice. If I get irritated with a film due to shit dialogue, I can turn it off and choose from 1000s of others. That choice doesn't exist in MMOs. There aren't many MMOs, most of them follow the same mechanics, and we have to wait years for new releases.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But, I think Runescape, either Old-School or Runescape 3 are actually very sound MMOs if you have never played them before and have a pretty rewarding end-game with it's open ended PvP.
It's not because I'm hoping to relive some experience I had in 1999 - I played my first MMO (Runescape) in 2007, and the only reason I left it is because they broke the main game, then opened a legacy server and broke that one. What I'm looking for in an MMO should be very simple:
1. The plethora of skills gives you many activities to take part it.
2. The plethora of mini games gives you a lot of cool little side distractions.
3. The quests don't all suck. Runescape doesn't do cut and paste quests and some of them are legitimately really cool.
4. Dungeoneering is the best dungeon system I have ever seen. The fully randomized dungeons are visionary, and should honestly become industry standard.
5. It's a very old game. There is a lot of quests, there are a lot of items, there is a lot to do in general.
Things I don't like about Runescape:
1. 95% of game time is spent doing the same mind-numblingly boring tasks over and over and over and over and over to level various skills.
2. The graphics are not good. They have their charm but a lot of people will not like them.
3. The combat is pretty meh. It's not as bad as it once was but it's still not very good.
Crow Fall / Ashes OF Creation is the way to go I say though at least for now
Upcoming games would be "AIR" and "Monster Hunter World" I have no idea how Pay 2 Enjoy or Pay 2 Win these games will be though but i've lost my faith in most Korean MMORPG because most are either Pay 2 Win or Pay 2 Enjoy, only game that isn't like this is "Black Desert".
Currently Only Black Desert & ESO are even worth playing in my eyes that are actually released.
I tried Dark Fall in early Beta, but it was too laggy perhaps this has changed but the overall game from what it used to be was great.
I enjoyed my time in all the mmorpgs I've played and I'm enjoying my time in the current one too. I just don't believe in mmorpgs that can keep my occupied indefinitely (for years), like my early gaming days. That's both because boredom sets in faster these days and the gaming choices (not just mmorpgs but overall) are vastly superior than they used to be.
I remember stopping playing an mmorpg to play Kingdom Come: Deliverance at the time. Then when I got bored, I moved to a different mmorpg. Then Vermintide 2 came out and took a small break too. Didn't change mmorpg this time, but shared time between the two. And so on.
If I would name two issues that I have with the current mmorpg offering, they would be:
Do I have an mmorpg I'm looking forward to? No, I don't. At this point I'm more interested in what is offered than what is promised to be offered. If an mmorpg is not out, I usually don't bother with it. And I consider it lenient towards mmorpgs, since single player games I don't buy until after a month from release, when the dust has settled, the glaring bugs were patched and the gamers gave a more rounded opinion about them.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
The open world PVP is possible everywhere but extremely easy to avoid if you aren't in the mood for PVP or whatever... in fact the only place it is guaranteed to be found right now is while capturing village control points, going to a player city siege, or a suicide run to a hotspot where enemies can always be found. Its as easy to avoid PVP as it is being able to flag yourself invulnerable to PVP like in Asheron's Call or something like that. Seriously... you get load lag whenever someone is entering your area before you even see them typically so that gives you plenty of time to get away if you do not want to risk a fight but its almost never going to be an enemy if the grind in certain areas.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
In case of the original 3,i don't feel the devs made any good decisions.EQ for example was simply Smedley looking for a greedier way to get MORE money from the spenders where as 15 bucks a month was the most he could get.
in case of FFXI change did absolutely NOTHING to conform to a market,it is the same market and the changes did not bnring any new players,so they simply made change to copy Blizzard which seems to be Square Enix's new business model which is very sad to see.
In case of Wow,i see a game that looks similar to the way EQ2 was dumbed down,i now see Wow has become worse so devs are looking for easier ways to operate a game.Example why put all the effort and work into making pets a lot different when you can just make them all act like normal pets,why create multiple zones for leveling when you can just use the ones you have and cater them to every level,i see a very lazy business model.
As for cash shops,they do NOTHING to make a game better,they are only their for selfish greed because they are not even designed to be fair either.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Purple Squirrel indeed.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon