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So apparently ANET is being extremely shady

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  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,572
    Quizzical said:
    There are some programs that can be used to cheat in MMORPGs, but also have other, non-cheating uses.  Macro software certainly fits that criterion.  Even among programs that are only for cheating in games, cheating in single-player games doesn't affect anyone else and is a legitimate thing to do.  So having such programs on your computer that aren't specific to a particular game may be reasonable for someone who isn't cheating in online games.

    However, you have to be smart about your usage of cheat programs.  If you're not cheating, don't make it look like you are.  Don't have cheat programs that could allow you to cheat in online games running while you're playing those online games.  That's what got people banned in Guild Wars 2, and even if they weren't using the programs to cheat at the game (which most of them probably were), they still got banned for being stupid.

    ArenaNet wasn't combing through your file system looking to see if you had cheat programs installed on your computer.  They checked to see if you had programs that could be used to cheat at GW2 running at the same time as GW2.  And even then, the ban was only if they were running concurrently for "a significant number of hours".  So even if you did cheat outright for 5 minutes, that wouldn't have gotten you banned.
    1) Did they have consent to check your processes?

    2) Do you know for sure that all of the programs they checked for can actually be used to cheat in GW2?
    [Deleted User]PhryPhaserlightrasgan514postlarval
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,156
    edited April 2018
    I wonder if this was done by a single developer or a few people without the knowledge of everyone hmm conspiracy :3... And just because a program can be used such as Cheat Engine to possibly cheat GW2 not this is often used in single player games like Skyrim for fun lots of people actually use it, so if its scanning and detecting / ban based off this when it's not even touching the GW2 game itself I see it as a problem.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,543
    Doesn't the EULA you sign give them the consent they need.
    PhryAnOldFart
    Chamber of Chains
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,720
    edited April 2018
    So, I too got hit by this ban wave. I was a bit surprised since I bot in a lot of games like FFXIV and Path of Exile, mostly to keep up with my unemployed friends.

    That quote comes straight from the Reddit post.
    So he breaks the rules to "try and keep up with his unemployed friends"? quite the lame excuse he used there. He got banned for breaking the rules and now he is grabbing pitchforks to go against ANET for banning people who break the rules.

    GG


    cheating in other games isn't justification for being banned in games you don't cheat in.  That's his point and it is certainly reasonable.

    If their cheat detection is yielding false flags then that's a major issue.  Looking at all live processes is also sketchy as fuck, and possibly illegal

    I hate how prevalent cheating has become, but that doesn't justify every mechanism developers use to catch them.
    i think he implied that he got banned in GW2 for using the cheat engine that somehow didn't get him banned from FFXIV and PoE, so he expected not to get banned  in GW2... as if these companies had the exact same terms of service and user agreements.




  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    cheyane said:
    If you have other cheat programs running on your computer than you deserve every ban coming your way.


    I'm sure you never cheated outside the game. And I'm sure you never downloaded anything on a torrent. And I'm 100% sure you have a legit Windows and Office versions installed on your PC. I'm also sure you pay for all the movies and episodes you download or watch online directly.


    No but most adults take responsibility for the fact that they break some rules. I have always been of the distinct opinion that should i be caught with some pirated software, that is on me. I took the risk and i serve the sentence. 

    Going on like someone peed in your cereals just because the dice finally came up sour is childish and petty. Just own your shit. 

    Now the point about data storage and transmitting is ofc valid... If it was not for the fact that the person had a bloody cheat engine on his/her system... A bit like having unprotected sex with a club player... Curious why people only care about data security when it is in their favor to complain about it... Looking at you FB users.... 

    Anyway... 
    [Deleted User]

    This have been a good conversation

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,572
    So, I too got hit by this ban wave. I was a bit surprised since I bot in a lot of games like FFXIV and Path of Exile, mostly to keep up with my unemployed friends.

    That quote comes straight from the Reddit post.
    So he breaks the rules to "try and keep up with his unemployed friends"? quite the lame excuse he used there. He got banned for breaking the rules and now he is grabbing pitchforks to go against ANET for banning people who break the rules.

    GG


    cheating in other games isn't justification for being banned in games you don't cheat in.  That's his point and it is certainly reasonable.

    If their cheat detection is yielding false flags then that's a major issue.  Looking at all live processes is also sketchy as fuck, and possibly illegal

    I hate how prevalent cheating has become, but that doesn't justify every mechanism developers use to catch them.
    i think he implied that he got banned in GW2 for using the cheat engine that somehow didn't get him banned from FFXIV and PoE, so he expected not to get banned  in GW2... as if these companies had the exact same terms of service and user agreements.
    No, he said that he didn't cheat in GW2 as there is little benefit relative to the risk.  which is true.  So apparently leaving those programs running is enough to get a ban.  And we dont know if any of those programs even work for GW2.
  • WylfWylf Member UncommonPosts: 376
    ananit said:

    unlike you i read the entire post and not the first paragraph...

    I mean just read the entire thing instead of jumping to conclusions.
    @ananit sadly I think you are asking too much from many of those here. You point is valid.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,998
    I remember their was a big stir not to long ago about EULA's that stated they had the right to download third party software to your computer and took no responsibility to it's effects.  Who knows what it does.  Probably tracking and selling information related to gaming habits, probably.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,543
    So, I too got hit by this ban wave. I was a bit surprised since I bot in a lot of games like FFXIV and Path of Exile, mostly to keep up with my unemployed friends.

    That quote comes straight from the Reddit post.
    So he breaks the rules to "try and keep up with his unemployed friends"? quite the lame excuse he used there. He got banned for breaking the rules and now he is grabbing pitchforks to go against ANET for banning people who break the rules.

    GG


    cheating in other games isn't justification for being banned in games you don't cheat in.  That's his point and it is certainly reasonable.

    If their cheat detection is yielding false flags then that's a major issue.  Looking at all live processes is also sketchy as fuck, and possibly illegal

    I hate how prevalent cheating has become, but that doesn't justify every mechanism developers use to catch them.
    i think he implied that he got banned in GW2 for using the cheat engine that somehow didn't get him banned from FFXIV and PoE, so he expected not to get banned  in GW2... as if these companies had the exact same terms of service and user agreements.
    No, he said that he didn't cheat in GW2 as there is little benefit relative to the risk.  which is true.  So apparently leaving those programs running is enough to get a ban.  And we dont know if any of those programs even work for GW2.
    Since ArenaNet was only searching for five particular cheat programs, those programs surely do work to let you cheat in Guild Wars 2.
    [Deleted User]DakeruPhry
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,543
    So, I too got hit by this ban wave. I was a bit surprised since I bot in a lot of games like FFXIV and Path of Exile, mostly to keep up with my unemployed friends.

    That quote comes straight from the Reddit post.
    So he breaks the rules to "try and keep up with his unemployed friends"? quite the lame excuse he used there. He got banned for breaking the rules and now he is grabbing pitchforks to go against ANET for banning people who break the rules.

    GG


    cheating in other games isn't justification for being banned in games you don't cheat in.  That's his point and it is certainly reasonable.

    If their cheat detection is yielding false flags then that's a major issue.  Looking at all live processes is also sketchy as fuck, and possibly illegal

    I hate how prevalent cheating has become, but that doesn't justify every mechanism developers use to catch them.
    i think he implied that he got banned in GW2 for using the cheat engine that somehow didn't get him banned from FFXIV and PoE, so he expected not to get banned  in GW2... as if these companies had the exact same terms of service and user agreements.
    The Reddit post is from someone who claims to work for an anti-virus software company, so part of his job is to have programs that can monitor and interfere with the operation of other programs.

    ArenaNet has given a list of the five particular cheat programs that they were looking for.  Anything else on your computer other than those five programs would be ignored.  They also only even looked for those cheat programs while Guild Wars 2 was running, so using them to cheat in other games wouldn't have gotten you banned from Guild Wars 2 unless you had it running at the same time as other games.
    Phry
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 10,272
    Dumb, I haven't downloaded a cheat program since 2000 when I played Diablo 1-2. Surprised people still feel the need to use these for any game. I wouldn't say it's shady, just don't DL cheat programs.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 2,194
    Tiller said:
    Dumb, I haven't downloaded a cheat program since 2000 when I played Diablo 1-2. Surprised people still feel the need to use these for any game. I wouldn't say it's shady, just don't DL cheat programs.
    mousepads maphack and pindle/meph/baal bots ftw.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,543
    cheyane said:
    If you have other cheat programs running on your computer than you deserve every ban coming your way.


    I'm sure you never cheated outside the game. And I'm sure you never downloaded anything on a torrent. And I'm 100% sure you have a legit Windows and Office versions installed on your PC. I'm also sure you pay for all the movies and episodes you download or watch online directly.
    I'm sure you're one of the 0,0000000001% of the human race, who never cheated or broke the law. And therefore I'm also sure that you are not an egoistical prick, who don't care for others, simply because you're currently not amongst them. 
    If you don't want to pay for Microsoft Office, then don't.  There are alternatives that you can get legally and for free:

    https://www.libreoffice.org
    Phry
  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 2,939
    So, ArenaNet and anyone who is spying on you know if you been looking up midget porn or not because they didn't encrypt the running process data. What if I used a program with the same name a a cheat program and it wasn't a cheat program and I got banned for using a cheat program?

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,156
    edited April 2018
    So, I too got hit by this ban wave. I was a bit surprised since I bot in a lot of games like FFXIV and Path of Exile, mostly to keep up with my unemployed friends.

    That quote comes straight from the Reddit post.
    So he breaks the rules to "try and keep up with his unemployed friends"? quite the lame excuse he used there. He got banned for breaking the rules and now he is grabbing pitchforks to go against ANET for banning people who break the rules.

    GG


    cheating in other games isn't justification for being banned in games you don't cheat in.  That's his point and it is certainly reasonable.

    If their cheat detection is yielding false flags then that's a major issue.  Looking at all live processes is also sketchy as fuck, and possibly illegal

    I hate how prevalent cheating has become, but that doesn't justify every mechanism developers use to catch them.
    i think he implied that he got banned in GW2 for using the cheat engine that somehow didn't get him banned from FFXIV and PoE, so he expected not to get banned  in GW2... as if these companies had the exact same terms of service and user agreements.
    No, he said that he didn't cheat in GW2 as there is little benefit relative to the risk.  which is true.  So apparently leaving those programs running is enough to get a ban.  And we dont know if any of those programs even work for GW2.
    And this is the problem users using Cheat Engine, for example, stated above, or other programs like Asus Keybot 2, which comes bundled with the ROG Motherboards, and ASUS Sonic Suite, shouldn't get users banned from games unless they are warned first, or told it can't be run.

    For example, if a user opens a cheat even with XingCode it doesn't ban them it usually just warns and closes the game and says "Cheat Engine" is running and allows you to close the process for example.

    Scanning a person's entire ram, or hard drive for installed programs is a different story which seems to be an invasion of privacy users shouldn't have to deal with this, and users should have been made aware of changes that would affect them like this in Guild Wars. The difference obviously being if a person, for example, uses Cheat Engine to load (Infinite Mana Potions) into a game and spam them with 0 cooldowns then the cooldown is 5 seconds then obviously they are cheating which should be detected server side anyways and result in a ban, but remember "Black Desert" when people could just use some type of hack to refill HP instantly and stuff without serverside checks, now its not possible thank god.
    Signex
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member RarePosts: 554
    cheyane said:
    Doesn't the EULA you sign give them the consent they need.
    There is those that would argue that this is illegal even if you sign that you agree to this, I would say that's nonsense, You sign a contract saying that a company can access your running process then you have just signed away your right to complain.
    Scot
  • DXSinsDXSins Member UncommonPosts: 324
    Cracking down hard and fast is the only way they will turn around the online cheating problem that keeps growing bigger and bigger.

    Recently developers announced they were banding together to help fight toxic behaviour... i've always wanted them to do the same for cheaters. Put their combined resources into developing are good "shared" anti-cheat program used across major publishers. 1st strike gets you banned from that title, 3rd strike gets you banned from the whole collection of publishers titles.

    Sadly that will never happen tho... reality is they would lose to much money, which is the only real reason they fund gaming.
  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,087
    cheyane said:
    Doesn't the EULA you sign give them the consent they need.
    If it were only that simple. If EULA goes against the law in a country, then it simply won't be legally valid in that country.

    If Anet doesn't state exactly that they are scanning your pc on the look for certain software and uploading the results to their servers to keep, then it could be well possible that Anet is violating your privacy according to the law in your country. 

    And if you are not using that software to cheat in GW2, then it is a false positive. The cheating software is not illegal to have on your pc and Anet also has no say in whether you are allowed to have it installed.

    (Disclaimer: I am dead against botting and multiboxing in any MMO)

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    cheyane said:
    Doesn't the EULA you sign give them the consent they need.
    If it were only that simple. If EULA goes against the law in a country, then it simply won't be legally valid in that country.

    If Anet doesn't state exactly that they are scanning your pc on the look for certain software and uploading the results to their servers to keep, then it could be well possible that Anet is violating your privacy according to the law in your country. 

    And if you are not using that software to cheat in GW2, then it is a false positive. The cheating software is not illegal to have on your pc and Anet also has no say in whether you are allowed to have it installed.

    (Disclaimer: I am dead against botting and multiboxing in any MMO)

    They aren't saying its illegal to have those cheat programs, what they are saying is that they will ban you if you use them at the same time you have their game running, i don't think there is a country in the world that would not uphold that particular EULA violation. :p
    AnOldFart
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,572
    Renoaku said:
    So, I too got hit by this ban wave. I was a bit surprised since I bot in a lot of games like FFXIV and Path of Exile, mostly to keep up with my unemployed friends.

    That quote comes straight from the Reddit post.
    So he breaks the rules to "try and keep up with his unemployed friends"? quite the lame excuse he used there. He got banned for breaking the rules and now he is grabbing pitchforks to go against ANET for banning people who break the rules.

    GG


    cheating in other games isn't justification for being banned in games you don't cheat in.  That's his point and it is certainly reasonable.

    If their cheat detection is yielding false flags then that's a major issue.  Looking at all live processes is also sketchy as fuck, and possibly illegal

    I hate how prevalent cheating has become, but that doesn't justify every mechanism developers use to catch them.
    i think he implied that he got banned in GW2 for using the cheat engine that somehow didn't get him banned from FFXIV and PoE, so he expected not to get banned  in GW2... as if these companies had the exact same terms of service and user agreements.
    No, he said that he didn't cheat in GW2 as there is little benefit relative to the risk.  which is true.  So apparently leaving those programs running is enough to get a ban.  And we dont know if any of those programs even work for GW2.
    And this is the problem users using Cheat Engine, for example, stated above, or other programs like Asus Keybot 2, which comes bundled with the ROG Motherboards, and ASUS Sonic Suite, shouldn't get users banned from games unless they are warned first, or told it can't be run.

    For example, if a user opens a cheat even with XingCode it doesn't ban them it usually just warns and closes the game and says "Cheat Engine" is running and allows you to close the process for example.

    Scanning a person's entire ram, or hard drive for installed programs is a different story which seems to be an invasion of privacy users shouldn't have to deal with this, and users should have been made aware of changes that would affect them like this in Guild Wars. The difference obviously being if a person, for example, uses Cheat Engine to load (Infinite Mana Potions) into a game and spam them with 0 cooldowns then the cooldown is 5 seconds then obviously they are cheating which should be detected server side anyways and result in a ban, but remember "Black Desert" when people could just use some type of hack to refill HP instantly and stuff without serverside checks, now its not possible thank god.
    I didn't play BDO, but I remember reading that their networking code was completely noobish as it was client side.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    Cheating is wrong. You got caught. Suck it up and move on.
    Dakeru
  • n3v3rriv3rn3v3rriv3r Member UncommonPosts: 496
    Cheating is wrong. You got caught. Suck it up and move on.
    The problem with this code is that is not detecting cheating but "unwanted" programs on your computer. I am not sure you understand the difference but anyways:

    Stupidity is not considered wrong but it should be and you also got caught. I am pretty sure you will not move on and write bullshit on forums again and again....


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,543
    Akulas said:
    So, ArenaNet and anyone who is spying on you know if you been looking up midget porn or not because they didn't encrypt the running process data. What if I used a program with the same name a a cheat program and it wasn't a cheat program and I got banned for using a cheat program?
    Unless you have some special program to display midget porn and nothing else, no.  If you were looking at something in a web browser, they'd at most be able to see that you had the web browser running but not what was displayed in it.

    Most likely, they wouldn't have found out about the web browser, either.  Rather, they'd have a hash of the web browser, check to see if it matches one of the five cheat programs, see that it doesn't, and then discard it as an irrelevant program.  A sophisticated person who was spying on your Internet connection may have been able to find out that you had a web browser open, and perhaps how many browser windows and tabs you had open, but not what was in them from what Guild Wars 2 transmitted.

    Of course, someone who could see all of your Internet traffic would know what sites you were visiting anyway.  To connect to a site, there has to be an IP address sent in the clear, and someone who is watching your Internet connection would see that and know what site you went to.  Guild Wars 2 has nothing to do with that.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,543
    Let's stop splitting hairs here.  Running a cheat program that could be used to cheat in Guild Wars 2 at the same time that you're running Guild Wars 2 should be a bannable offense whether you're actually using it to cheat in Guild Wars 2 or not.  Or the same for any other game where cheating matters.
    Ungood[Deleted User]InteritusmaskedweaselIselinKyleranrasgan514
  • ConnmacartConnmacart Member UncommonPosts: 722
    Quizzical said:
    Let's stop splitting hairs here.  Running a cheat program that could be used to cheat in Guild Wars 2 at the same time that you're running Guild Wars 2 should be a bannable offense whether you're actually using it to cheat in Guild Wars 2 or not.  Or the same for any other game where cheating matters.
    No, just no. You might as well give speeding tickets to all ferrari drivers just because their cars can go way past the speedlimit. Or arrest people for shoplifting because they haven't yet paid for the item they are holding. 

    Just because you could do those things doesn't mean you will. It's convicting them before the crime not after.
    [Deleted User]Kyleranrasgan514
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