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Is Crowfall skating on P2W / P2A ice?

RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,047
It seems like it is, but the worst part is that they want to do a permanent soft launch of the game with no more wipes while it's still technically in beta. On top of that, you have a limited choice in what you can passively train in UNLESS! you upgrade to VIP status, with which you can then train in 3x as many classes.

Are we really going to see a majority of new MMO's forcing people to pay ridiculous amounts of money to be competitive? Is that what the so called B2P / F2P PvP market has come to? These cash shop shenanigans and VIP luxuries are getting out of hand.

PhryYashaXGdemamiFrykkaIceAgeJamesGoblinBruceYeeElorantaShaighLinifand 3 others.
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Comments

  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    edited April 2018
    i see ashes going the same way.. as most companies wanne get most profit..and statistics shows that cashshops with advantages gives me most revenue

    i dont see crowfall becoming a sucess tho.. prolly another wildstare flop.

    ashes might be something

    i have high hopes for cu..


    RhoklawGdemamiFrykkaJamesGoblinnatpickSignexAngreeegamer
  • ForgefeuForgefeu Member UncommonPosts: 115
    Sadly a lot of mmorpg are going this way (i admit it as been for a while) So much that outsider of the genre alway thinks P2W when you ask them what they think about MMORPG. I wouldn't blame them. B2P on top of premium monthly access fee that are pretty much required, on top of cash shop ... 

    This is expensive, cosmetic is dead in favour of cash shop and worst of all it is immersion breaking, you can't feel connected to a virtual world when you are reminded every now and then about inventory space, prime access and whatnot. 

    I used to be hyped Crowfall but my feeling is another one bite the dust, sad ... Oh well at least we will have fun for some month on next wow extension, as alway ...
    RhoklawGdemamiIceAgeJamesGoblinElorantanatpick
  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    i think the problems lies not only by the companies but the addiction to players aswell..

    Gaming companies are playing on addiction.. meaning players will just pay the x amount in order to play the game earlier.. the X amount is set by the game companies and getting stretch every single time.

    no legal issues.
    no limitations.

    now do you blame the companies or the players that are actually paying for the x amount?

    i blame players tbh.. dropping big amounts of money into games. game companies will just keep stretching the x amount even higher.



    GdemamiAlteiirFrykkaJamesGoblinBruceYeeBrunlin
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,036
    I think this is the default setting now for all new indie MMOs, they will all go into Ever Early Access. We have talked before about how having a cash shop and announcing there will be no further wipes is the new definition of launching. Whether that is a solid definition or not, it is clear that everyone of them wants to obfuscate the transition from beta to launching.

    When you think about it, the whole gaming crowd funded approach is built on paying for something before you can play it. In some ways this could be looked as just an extension of that principle, but they are trying to pretend that's not what they are doing, that's were the deception lies.

    This is a huge problem for me as I never join until after launch, so I am going to have to do a lot of research just to work out when and if I want to join. Also when do I start that research? Should I be looking at SOTA now? I am sure I should not, but when should I? The same will occur with Crowfall it seems.
    MidPrincessRhoklawFrykkaOlemagi

     25 Agrees

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,530
    Rhoklaw said:
    It seems like it is, but the worst part is that they want to do a permanent soft launch of the game with no more wipes while it's still technically in beta. On top of that, you have a limited choice in what you can passively train in UNLESS! you upgrade to VIP status, with which you can then train in 3x as many classes.

    Are we really going to see a majority of new MMO's forcing people to pay ridiculous amounts of money to be competitive? Is that what the so called B2P / F2P PvP market has come to? These cash shop shenanigans and VIP luxuries are getting out of hand.
    Although I am not too happy about soft launches I do not get the VIP critique. VIP status in Crowfall is simply a sub. You know, that thing everybody loves because they hate f2p etc. Its a sub, its NOT f2p, you seem to be confused, mixing things up. I also think it is extremely fair, it still gives people a chance to play the game without subbing, just like for instance ESO.

    Also, more trainings options as a VIP member does not mean more power, just more options. 

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    KyleranpantaroJamesGoblinFlyByKnightUngoodesc-joconnorultimateduckFangrim
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,565
    Yeah, I saw someone do a youtube video about that (which I made a thread about recently).

    However, I am not really sure how the progression system works; some people are claiming that it has endless progression (which would be terrible for a competitive pvp game), while others say it has a capped progression system. 

    If it has a capped progression system I don't really see an issue with the soft launch or whatever. Obviously, a no-wipe soft launch would be bad if its like AA where you have land grabs and so forth, but I think you have to take a game's systems into account before just labelling that kind of thing as bad or p2w.

    For example, I can see absolutely no problem with a soft launch/ no-wipe/etc for a pvp game that was basically just the pvp section of ESO or GW2. 
    KyleranGdemamiJamesGoblin
    ....
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,112
    Subscriptions isn't an issue at all. Old games had subscriptions and I thought people liked how it was. 
    YashaXMikehaAlteiirlaseritIce-QueenElorantanatpickFangrim
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,665
    This was the indication i got from day 1 and never trusted this guy after seeing what they did to wiz 101 a kids game that went from decent to all cash shop.

    As to progression it is more than that,the simple fact is people like building stuff,they like their castles,well pay pay and guess what,more to come more to pay.
    This is where the term micro transactions comes in,we no longer buy games we buy every last piece of a game and end up spending far more than the game is worth.

    This is also the reason i have stated many times why games/devs are only adding the MMO/login screen to support pvp and cash shops,otherwise they couldn't run a cash shop if was no login screen.
    Guess what else,i been pvping for 20 years and i never pay any added money beyond the box prices,so yeah add a login screen=add a cash shop.
    Besides these cash shops will keep getting worse to the point a NEW player perhaps wanting to think about joining 2 years later will see an overwhelming cash shop maybe needing 300-500 dollars just to enter a game.

    IMO i rather see ALL of these games leave the market,if you can't afford to build a game with your own money gtfo because you are only creating a blackmark within the market.

    Ice-QueennatpickSignex

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,358
    Remember the time when people said that Kickstarter MMOs would be better because they wouldnt have greedy publishers forcing the passionate developers to have game ruining cash shops or rush the release?

    Pepperidge Farms remembers.
    JamesGoblinIce-QueenMendelBig.Daddy.SamediBrunlinLackingMMOGobstopper3D
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,530
    Xiaoki said:
    Remember the time when people said that Kickstarter MMOs would be better because they wouldnt have greedy publishers forcing the passionate developers to have game ruining cash shops or rush the release?

    Pepperidge Farms remembers.
    Fortunately NOTHING that you are describing is happening here. What is wrong with people just making shit up because it suits their agenda?

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    YashaXpantaroJamesGoblinFlyByKnightnatpick
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,167
    Scot said:
    I think this is the default setting now for all new indie MMOs, they will all go into Ever Early Access. We have talked before about how having a cash shop and announcing there will be no further wipes is the new definition of launching. Whether that is a solid definition or not, it is clear that everyone of them wants to obfuscate the transition from beta to launching.

    When you think about it, the whole gaming crowd funded approach is built on paying for something before you can play it. In some ways this could be looked as just an extension of that principle, but they are trying to pretend that's not what they are doing, that's were the deception lies.

    This is a huge problem for me as I never join until after launch, so I am going to have to do a lot of research just to work out when and if I want to join. Also when do I start that research? Should I be looking at SOTA now? I am sure I should not, but when should I? The same will occur with Crowfall it seems.
    You and I are of similar opinion on the subject of what really constitutes a game being considered "launched" which is always once they stop wiping and allow player progression to be retained.

    I read through their pricing page,  nothing screams PFA there, unless one considers paying a sub an unreasonable advantage.

    I had not realized this title offers an EVE like skill training system based on time in game, with extra benefits for the price of a sub.

    Just on that basis alone I will be trying this game, and I will buy it and begin paying the VIP sub fee from the time of the server wipe.

    I may not actually play the game at launch, rather will just train skills until the game reaches what I feel is a "finished" state.

    I noticed they mention a discounted annual rate for VIP, and I can see myself buying at least one or more accounts at launch and training them.

    As they seem to take a lot of cues from CCP perhaps they'll one day permit character trading which in EVE can raise significant ISK far beyond the cash value spent on the sub time. 

    One caveat, they need to have caps on specific jobs or skill classes as in EVE, if not then I might have to pass.

    https://crowfall.com/en/faq/general/pricing/
    ScotJamesGoblinPhaserlightBrunlin

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,112
    edited April 2018
    B2P only works if you have a large population and enough people patronize the cash shop for cosmetics or conveniences like inventory slots and so on.  So basically I have no issue paying a subscription. The cash shop is there for cosmetics then for those that don't subscribe and for those that do subscribe a little extra if they want to buy more cosmetics.

    I don't think it is a problem for most gamers to pay for their entertainment but I really cannot stand players who expect everything for the box price. There are servers you are playing on and it is not a single player game and no game can continue with just the box price, I think Guildwars 2 proved that to a point that continuing beyond a certain time frame becomes a challenge. I really would rather they don't struggle to put out content and just reward them as a player who enjoys a game should.

    I play Path of Exile now and I have already spent 100 Euros for inventory and part of a costume and some totem skins. I think Grinding Gear Games totally deserves my money.
    KyleranJamesGoblin
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,115
    How much will it cost for VIP?


  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,530
    Mikeha said:
    How much will it cost for VIP?


    15 dollars a month.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    MikehaJamesGoblin
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 13,036
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    I think this is the default setting now for all new indie MMOs, they will all go into Ever Early Access. We have talked before about how having a cash shop and announcing there will be no further wipes is the new definition of launching. Whether that is a solid definition or not, it is clear that everyone of them wants to obfuscate the transition from beta to launching.

    When you think about it, the whole gaming crowd funded approach is built on paying for something before you can play it. In some ways this could be looked as just an extension of that principle, but they are trying to pretend that's not what they are doing, that's were the deception lies.

    This is a huge problem for me as I never join until after launch, so I am going to have to do a lot of research just to work out when and if I want to join. Also when do I start that research? Should I be looking at SOTA now? I am sure I should not, but when should I? The same will occur with Crowfall it seems.
    You and I are of similar opinion on the subject of what really constitutes a game being considered "launched" which is always once they stop wiping and allow player progression to be retained.

    I read through their pricing page,  nothing screams PFA there, unless one considers paying a sub an unreasonable advantage.

    I had not realized this title offers an EVE like skill training system based on time in game, with extra benefits for the price of a sub.

    Just on that basis alone I will be trying this game, and I will buy it and begin paying the VIP sub fee from the time of the server wipe.

    I may not actually play the game at launch, rather will just train skills until the game reaches what I feel is a "finished" state.

    I noticed they mention a discounted annual rate for VIP, and I can see myself buying at least one or more accounts at launch and training them.

    As they seem to take a lot of cues from CCP perhaps they'll one day permit character trading which in EVE can raise significant ISK far beyond the cash value spent on the sub time. 

    One caveat, they need to have caps on specific jobs or skill classes as in EVE, if not then I might have to pass.

    https://crowfall.com/en/faq/general/pricing/

    We are, I am not really concerned about the likes of pricing at this stage, I just wouldn't mind having a clearer idea of when I need to look at the game. We have several of these games coming out over the next couple of years, keeping up with them as you guys do seems like a full time occupation to me. :)

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • DemogorgonDemogorgon Member UncommonPosts: 346
    lahnmir said:
    Mikeha said:
    How much will it cost for VIP?


    15 dollars a month.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    15$ for an empty game... Way to go mate. Be proud!
    JamesGoblin
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,530
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    Scot said:
    I think this is the default setting now for all new indie MMOs, they will all go into Ever Early Access. We have talked before about how having a cash shop and announcing there will be no further wipes is the new definition of launching. Whether that is a solid definition or not, it is clear that everyone of them wants to obfuscate the transition from beta to launching.

    When you think about it, the whole gaming crowd funded approach is built on paying for something before you can play it. In some ways this could be looked as just an extension of that principle, but they are trying to pretend that's not what they are doing, that's were the deception lies.

    This is a huge problem for me as I never join until after launch, so I am going to have to do a lot of research just to work out when and if I want to join. Also when do I start that research? Should I be looking at SOTA now? I am sure I should not, but when should I? The same will occur with Crowfall it seems.
    You and I are of similar opinion on the subject of what really constitutes a game being considered "launched" which is always once they stop wiping and allow player progression to be retained.

    I read through their pricing page,  nothing screams PFA there, unless one considers paying a sub an unreasonable advantage.

    I had not realized this title offers an EVE like skill training system based on time in game, with extra benefits for the price of a sub.

    Just on that basis alone I will be trying this game, and I will buy it and begin paying the VIP sub fee from the time of the server wipe.

    I may not actually play the game at launch, rather will just train skills until the game reaches what I feel is a "finished" state.

    I noticed they mention a discounted annual rate for VIP, and I can see myself buying at least one or more accounts at launch and training them.

    As they seem to take a lot of cues from CCP perhaps they'll one day permit character trading which in EVE can raise significant ISK far beyond the cash value spent on the sub time. 

    One caveat, they need to have caps on specific jobs or skill classes as in EVE, if not then I might have to pass.

    https://crowfall.com/en/faq/general/pricing/

    We are, I am not really concerned about the likes of pricing at this stage, I just wouldn't mind having a clearer idea of when I need to look at the game. We have several of these games coming out over the next couple of years, keeping up with them as you guys do seems like a full time occupation to me. :)
    It would be a fulltime job having to keep tabs on all of them. So don't. See what resonates with you and focus on that one. Crowfall hit all the right notes for me so thats what I am paying for and attention to. Unless you are equally interested in all of them, but that would be a luxury problem  ;)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,530
    lahnmir said:
    Mikeha said:
    How much will it cost for VIP?


    15 dollars a month.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    15$ for an empty game... Way to go mate. Be proud!
    What a weird reaction. I guess terms like Alpha and Beta are completely alien to you. Its always nice to pass judgement while being clueless. Way to go mate. Be proud!

    Next time contribute something instead of making snarky comments.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir 
    pantaroKyleranJamesGoblinDemogorgon
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • FrykkaFrykka Member UncommonPosts: 154
    edited April 2018
    Rhoklaw said:
    It seems like it is, but the worst part is that they want to do a permanent soft launch of the game with no more wipes while it's still technically in beta. On top of that, you have a limited choice in what you can passively train in UNLESS! you upgrade to VIP status, with which you can then train in 3x as many classes.

    Are we really going to see a majority of new MMO's forcing people to pay ridiculous amounts of money to be competitive? Is that what the so called B2P / F2P PvP market has come to? These cash shop shenanigans and VIP luxuries are getting out of hand.
    NO!  It is not even close to PtW and saying anything close is a disservice to this site.
    What cash shop? There will be No RNG lootboxes, NO micropay, Buy to Play with VIP optional subscription (NO added player power).  These things are "written in stone" by the Devs so speculation is BS.    We will be getting a skill and item wipe again with the 5.6 release, a good time to come test.
    JamesGoblin
  • FrykkaFrykka Member UncommonPosts: 154
    Scot said:
    I think this is the default setting now for all new indie MMOs, they will all go into Ever Early Access. We have talked before about how having a cash shop and announcing there will be no further wipes is the new definition of launching. Whether that is a solid definition or not, it is clear that everyone of them wants to obfuscate the transition from beta to launching.

    When you think about it, the whole gaming crowd funded approach is built on paying for something before you can play it. In some ways this could be looked as just an extension of that principle, but they are trying to pretend that's not what they are doing, that's were the deception lies.

    This is a huge problem for me as I never join until after launch, so I am going to have to do a lot of research just to work out when and if I want to join. Also when do I start that research? Should I be looking at SOTA now? I am sure I should not, but when should I? The same will occur with Crowfall it seems.
    If you register now you will have access to the open beta without buying anything...  this is pre soft launch as well so you lose nothing and the game will be in a "mostly" finished state missing things like tutorials, NPE enhancements.   Game is way ahead of CU and Ashes.  The current testing is AI on mobs and adding more new mobs that drop crafting materials plus bigger elite mobs with new AI mechanics...   the PvE in an open world PvP environment means watch your back, enemies lurk to kill you and take your loots (not your gear currently)
    JamesGoblinKyleran
  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 521
    Rhoklaw said:
    It seems like it is, but the worst part is that they want to do a permanent soft launch of the game with no more wipes while it's still technically in beta. On top of that, you have a limited choice in what you can passively train in UNLESS! you upgrade to VIP status, with which you can then train in 3x as many classes.

    Are we really going to see a majority of new MMO's forcing people to pay ridiculous amounts of money to be competitive? Is that what the so called B2P / F2P PvP market has come to? These cash shop shenanigans and VIP luxuries are getting out of hand.
    Everything you wrote is wrong. Why bother starting a thread based on a bunch of assumptions? Why not just do a little research? WTF does permanent soft launch mean, anyway?

    Let's start with the term soft launch and what it means for Crowfall. Todd Coleman addressed this the other day in response to a question on Kickstarter (which sounds very much like he is parroting comments in a certain Youtube video on the same subject). You can read the details here:

    https://community.crowfall.com/topic/20962-question-from-kickstarter-page/

    Since I know you are lazy and won't bother to read it, I'll sum it up. The only thing that will be missing at soft launch is the huge marketing blitz companies normally do at launch. Instead, they will grow the game slowly, making sure the systems are working correctly to achieve good player retention. Once they are satisfied with that, then they will do the media blitz. Coleman did this with Wizard101 and it worked well.

    The game will be 100% ready when soft launch begins. As stated in the thread, funding is not an issue. They have all the money they need to finish the game.

    Regarding skill training, you don't understand how it works, or how VIP works. Non-VIP players can train in each of 3 categories: General, Race and Class. Within the General section, there are 3 sub sections: Combat, Crafting and Exploration. So a non-VIP player can train Combat, Race and Class, or Crafting, Race and Class, or Exploration, Race and Class.

    A VIP player can train twice in each category, but they can't train twice in the same tree and, in some cases, not even in the same sub category. So a VIP player can't train 2 skills at the same time withing the Combat sub category. They can train 2 different crafting skills, but not within the same tree, which means they can learn Blacksmithing and Leatherworking at the same time, but that doesn't make them any better at Blacksmithing or Leatherworking than a non-VIP player. It just means that player has more options.

    VIP players can train 2 different classes at a time, and 2 different races, but they can only play 1 race and class at a time, same as a non-VIP player. It doesn't give the VIP player any more power, only more options.

    The Devs have worked very hard to make VIP valuable, but not P2W. In order to keep the game running, they are going to need people to pay for VIP. No MMO can survive on just box sales unless maybe they are selling as many boxes as WoW, but even WoW had a required subscription on top of that.

    So no, you don't need to pay extra money to be competitive. That is patently false. The stuff for sale in the cash shop is for use in EKs. They don't give any advantage in the Campaigns, where the PvP competition happens. You can't buy a house and place it in a campaign. The cash shop is nothing by skins and player housing. All of the parcels and buildings that can be purchased can also be crafted in game. You don't have to spend any money at all if you don't want to beyond the box price and you won't be at a disadvantage.
    MikehaJamesGoblinKyleran
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,019
    No, do some research before talking out the wrong orifice.
    JamesGoblin
  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 521
    YashaX said:
    Yeah, I saw someone do a youtube video about that (which I made a thread about recently).

    However, I am not really sure how the progression system works; some people are claiming that it has endless progression (which would be terrible for a competitive pvp game), while others say it has a capped progression system. 

    If it has a capped progression system I don't really see an issue with the soft launch or whatever. Obviously, a no-wipe soft launch would be bad if its like AA where you have land grabs and so forth, but I think you have to take a game's systems into account before just labelling that kind of thing as bad or p2w.

    For example, I can see absolutely no problem with a soft launch/ no-wipe/etc for a pvp game that was basically just the pvp section of ESO or GW2. 
    There are X number of skills that take a total of Y time to train. I don't know the exact numbers as I've never bothered to add them up, but there are a lot of skills and they will take years to train.

    Every player can train every skill if they play long enough, though they will very likely add more skills as the game matures such that no one will ever get to the end. In that regard, the game is very much like EvE. There are no caps on how many skills you can learn, but there are caps on every stat in the game. Skill training will only take you so far in terms of power. After that, they are about growing your character horizontally rather than vertically. You can only train so much in Blacksmithing, for example, after which you can only become a better blacksmith by getting better gear. Given equal gear and disciplines, a Blacksmith who has been playing for 5 years and a Blacksmith who has been playing for 6 months will be equally skilled. The only difference is that the 5 year guy will probably also be trained in Leatherworking, Woodworking and Alchemy.

    Skills are only 1 part of a character's power. Gear makes a big difference, especially vessels. Vessels can be leveled via playing the game. You gain XP by killing mobs, or by sacrificing items to the gods. Leveling a vessel provides stats that you can use to increase the vessel's strength, dex, etc. Then you've got the disciplines, which will give you additional abilities. If you are a tank and chose an anti-stealth discipline in favor of being able to use a bow, you might be sorry when you face off against that confessor.

    Player skill and group tactics matter as well. No one player is going to be able to do it all.

    For players joining the game late, there will be catch up mechanics. Players will be able to create skill tomes that they can then sell to other players and those players can use those tomes to speed up their training. They haven't built that system yet because frankly, they don't need it yet, but if you are interested in reading about it, I'm sure you can still find the article on the site. 

    They are doing a revamp of the skill trees in 5.6, so we'll have to see exactly what changes. I think it's mostly just a UI revamp. They talked about it some in the most recent livestream.

    The short of it is that, while you can theoretically train forever, you are limited in how much power you can gain, and new players will be able to train faster via skill tomes.
    YashaXMikehaJamesGoblinKyleranFrykka
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,073


    This 'soft launch' bullshit sounds like what Shroud of the Avatar did. I think it's crap and personally think a game is launched if the general public can pay to play it with no more wipes.

    They are just launching a bare bones half finished game. That's what these 'soft launches' are.
    JamesGoblinBruceYeeScotFrykkaIce-QueenElorantanatpickAngreeegamer

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

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  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,019
    Nilden said:


    This 'soft launch' bullshit sounds like what Shroud of the Avatar did. I think it's crap and personally think a game is launched if the general public can pay to play it with no more wipes.

    They are just launching a bare bones half finished game. That's what these 'soft launches' are.
    So then consider it launched?  Nobody cares?
    JamesGoblinYashaXFrykka
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