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Developers sitting next to each other

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Comments

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,736
    Amathe said:
    kitarad said:

     It ended badly with the other guy in my group finding out ...that is another story.
    This story sounds a lot more interesting than this feeble thread. Tell us how it ends! :) 
    My first reaction was to retaliate with something nasty.  Instead I went and did something else, then thought about it.  

    Why do you have to be like this ?  

    I understand your all about Pantheon.  I understand you know everything published about this game, a walking dictionary ready to answer any question before a developer.  I have to say good, that's nice, it really is !..... But you don't have to be the boss here, you simply choose to be here and put your stick in the ground like many of us.  

    We all have a wide range of things to say.... Is it your job to pick and choose ?  


    You really cant see a big difference between a bunch of developers sitting in the same room under perfect conditions.  As it stands now, many are seeing near impossible game play to be played with strangers.  Sure, it's easier for Old School players WITH FRIENDS !!! 

    Correct me if I'm wrong, your the Pantheon dictionary, 
    Visionary Realms is trying to bring back a lost art to many NEW players.  I for one think it's working, millions would like to play this game.  But each and every stream so far is making it look impossible for many strangers to get together and coordinate and have fun.... After all fun is the goal, is it not ?  

    Yes, Yes and Yes......We all know it's pre-alpha , but the streams are not giving this game any Justus !!!
      
    Gdemami
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,414
    I can see his point...A group of very experienced devs will be much more successful than a group of teenage noobs that have no clue what they are doing.
  • krulerkruler Member UncommonPosts: 589
    edited April 2018
    Rose tinted glasses and all that, loved the early years of EQ1 love to have the memory lane experience, but then if I am honest with myself and think back, I mean really think back a lot of the groups you ended up with had a good ratio of complete and utter arse heads, good reason why this sort of thing went out of vogue.

    I am going to play the bejebus out of this when it launches, but going to kinda agree with Delete5230 the streams of the gameplay are if anything doing the game a bit of a disservice, the group play that I admit to missing, is also the thing that's worrying me, a dichotomy involving desire and reality.
    I fear echo chambers when games get made, but the problem tends to amplify the more niche your audience, I hold up every 40k game made or attempted as devs just bounce off each other in ever decreasing circles.

    Hope they pull it off, here's to seeing what's really what at public beta/launch.

    PS Necro's screw Bards just get a jog on with Necro's, just putting it out there, don't need more payers flouncing around in big girls blouse's singing "Hey bloody Nonny futterkin Nooo" to enhance my group play.
    Or am I confusing Bards with Morris dancers again.

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630

    We all have a wide range of things to say.... Is it your job to pick and choose ?  
    No. I just post here. 

    So your point is that a team of devs making a pre-alpha stream is a different experience than a team of game players grouping after launch. Brilliant. Glad you caught that one. 
    Gyva02

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 3,021
    This is the guy who's friends tell him a girl is into him, but refuses to believe it and walks away telling himself he's better for it.

    You stay sassy!

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,568
    Guys its still Easter, eat your chocolate and calm down, it may not be the most crucial and worthy  thread I have ever seen, but this is MMORPG not the Turner Prize. :)
    Torval
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,736
    Scot said:
    Guys its still Easter, eat your chocolate and calm down, it may not be the most crucial and worthy  thread I have ever seen, but this is MMORPG not the Turner Prize. :)

    OK Ok, I'll calm down and take a breath ! 
    Where's that chocolate ?...here it is.....num num num..... Good !!
  • 1AD71AD7 Member UncommonPosts: 51
    edited April 2018
    It's worth pointing out that VR deploys a mostly "remote" based team.  While you watch the streams, remember that they have folks from all around the world in their groups.  I wouldn't be surprised if they had a couple people playing in the same office from time to time but that's more of an exception than the rule.  Outside of their phenomenal dev powers what you see is pretty typical for an "organic" group that utilizes voice chat --  these videos don't contain a bunch of devs sitting around in a laboratory.  As @jpedrote52 pointed out, VR does plan on utilizing integrated voice chat.
    Cendharia
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,147
    Amathe said:
    kitarad said:

     It ended badly with the other guy in my group finding out ...that is another story.
    This story sounds a lot more interesting than this feeble thread. Tell us how it ends! :) 
    My first reaction was to retaliate with something nasty.  Instead I went and did something else, then thought about it.  

    Why do you have to be like this ?  

    I understand your all about Pantheon.  I understand you know everything published about this game, a walking dictionary ready to answer any question before a developer.  I have to say good, that's nice, it really is !..... But you don't have to be the boss here, you simply choose to be here and put your stick in the ground like many of us.  

    We all have a wide range of things to say.... Is it your job to pick and choose ?  


    You really cant see a big difference between a bunch of developers sitting in the same room under perfect conditions.  As it stands now, many are seeing near impossible game play to be played with strangers.  Sure, it's easier for Old School players WITH FRIENDS !!! 

    Correct me if I'm wrong, your the Pantheon dictionary, 
    Visionary Realms is trying to bring back a lost art to many NEW players.  I for one think it's working, millions would like to play this game.  But each and every stream so far is making it look impossible for many strangers to get together and coordinate and have fun.... After all fun is the goal, is it not ?  

    Yes, Yes and Yes......We all know it's pre-alpha , but the streams are not giving this game any Justus !!!
      
    See,  the common theme behind most of your posts are about what you "fear" may happen with Pantheon's development and success in the market.

    Just read this today, f-e-a-r stands for "false evidence appearing real."

    You imagine what might happen based on very limited evidence to support your concerns which others often don't agree with.

    As long as you don't mind having such conversations, and understand the responses may be nasty sometimes (just what happens when you "share" on the internet) its all good.

    Otherwise maybe just chill a bit until you get a chance to get your hands on it and see how things go.

    The "reverend" Kyleran from the Church of Harbingers.


    delete5230ScotCendharia

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 499
    I don't know guys... I kinda want to see if they can pull it off eating some super runny sloppy joes or meatball subs. Could they do it? hummmmmm..... 
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,736
    Kyleran said:
    Amathe said:
    kitarad said:

     It ended badly with the other guy in my group finding out ...that is another story.
    This story sounds a lot more interesting than this feeble thread. Tell us how it ends! :) 
    My first reaction was to retaliate with something nasty.  Instead I went and did something else, then thought about it.  

    Why do you have to be like this ?  

    I understand your all about Pantheon.  I understand you know everything published about this game, a walking dictionary ready to answer any question before a developer.  I have to say good, that's nice, it really is !..... But you don't have to be the boss here, you simply choose to be here and put your stick in the ground like many of us.  

    We all have a wide range of things to say.... Is it your job to pick and choose ?  


    You really cant see a big difference between a bunch of developers sitting in the same room under perfect conditions.  As it stands now, many are seeing near impossible game play to be played with strangers.  Sure, it's easier for Old School players WITH FRIENDS !!! 

    Correct me if I'm wrong, your the Pantheon dictionary, 
    Visionary Realms is trying to bring back a lost art to many NEW players.  I for one think it's working, millions would like to play this game.  But each and every stream so far is making it look impossible for many strangers to get together and coordinate and have fun.... After all fun is the goal, is it not ?  

    Yes, Yes and Yes......We all know it's pre-alpha , but the streams are not giving this game any Justus !!!
      
    See,  the common theme behind most of your posts are about what you "fear" may happen with Pantheon's development and success in the market.

    Just read this today, f-e-a-r stands for "false evidence appearing real."

    You imagine what might happen based on very limited evidence to support your concerns which others often don't agree with.

    As long as you don't mind having such conversations, and understand the responses may be nasty sometimes (just what happens when you "share" on the internet) its all good.

    Otherwise maybe just chill a bit until you get a chance to get your hands on it and see how things go.

    The "reverend" Kyleran from the Church of Harbingers.



    I can't argue at all, 

    I want Pantheon to succeed badly, I want that feeling of new again. 

    I want that feeling I had back in 2004 where I thought if this is what we have now, Just think what the future holds.  This feeling never came, in fact it went in reverse.  I'm absolutely convinced I speak for millions that were let down.  

    This is exactly how it went down:  
    2008 the future looked good.  Players had their guard down. Two mmorpg's were in the making Vanguard and Warhammer Online.  Failure of both was not even considered as nothing failed before this........ With out going into detail, we all know the outcome and the industry took a nose dive and never recovered........ I'll be selfish and honest, I want an mmorpg. I want that feeling WE ALL HAD, where the future looks good !  

    I think Brad and Visionary Realms are genius, Master Creators.  Before you say "I'm kissing butt"  Let me say this. 

    I've been high level technical all my life, I've worked with the best.  With that, Genius comes with a price...... They often focus in one direction and never deviate, often very close minded and it takes total failure to realize they made a mistake.  I'm not saying Brad or VR is like that, but this is often a trait of Genius.
      


    Perspective, this is where were at: 
    Pantheon is not even in pre-alpha, very little of the world is created.  Small maps and little playgrounds for testing grounds of balancing classes and messing around with graphic designs.  When Visionary Realms feel a break through they give us a live stream.  

    VR is not concerned with other development tricks and standards, they're doing their own thing.  This could be good or bad.  The bad being slow.  Lets hope they don't run out of funding like Vanguard !!!!   



    By the way, f-e-a-r stands for "future events appearing real".....Just saying :)    
    Lokero
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630

    I want that feeling I had back in 2004 ...
    That is precisely what I don't want. You keep falsely equating WoW and Everquest (and games like Everquest). They aren't the same. WoW was a much, much, easier game, replete with hand holding, ez-mode features. When I played WoW in 2004, I was blown away by how absurdly easy it was. 

    I am here (and I believe a lot of peple are here) because they want the EQ level of challenge back. If I wanted WoW, I would play WoW, or the new Vanilla WoW, or the 200 games made since to be like WoW.

    The reason you do not relate to this is that you only made it to level 6 in EQ (recently). You can't understand EQ in such a short period. You keep saying you want a game like the one VR is making, but I suspect you want something quite different - if not antithetical. 

    By the way, you state that "Pantheon is not even in pre-alpha." Yes it is. That was the subject of a major announcement. How do you not know this?

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • MidPrincessMidPrincess Member UncommonPosts: 89
    Pantheon has integrated voice chat........
    Actually not all of us like voice chat....I dont want to hear someones kid crying or some guy yelling at his girlfriend or wife while I am playing...
    No kidding.  Several years ago I was in a guild, one guy was like 17 or 18 but kept his chat button held down all the time, so we could hear his mom come into his room and scream at him about getting his a** up and doing chores, or homework, or God knows what else.  That was great.

    There's another story I read about in which a raid member took a bathroom break but left his headset and mic on, letting the entire raid hear him strain and groan.  Apparently he also didn't wash his hands, and had told the raid he was going to grab a snack....

    So yeah, voice chat should absolutely be 100% optional and used by those who desire/enjoy it.  I am more than happy with keyboard communication, even in dungeons or what have you. 
    AmatheCendhariaKylerandcutbi001
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 8,414
    Amathe said:

    I want that feeling I had back in 2004 ...
    That is precisely what I don't want. You keep falsely equating WoW and Everquest (and games like Everquest). They aren't the same. WoW was a much, much, easier game, replete with hand holding, ez-mode features. When I played WoW in 2004, I was blown away by how absurdly easy it was. 

    I am here (and I believe a lot of peple are here) because they want the EQ level of challenge back. If I wanted WoW, I would play WoW, or the new Vanilla WoW, or the 200 games made since to be like WoW.

    The reason you do not relate to this is that you only made it to level 6 in EQ (recently). You can't understand EQ in such a short period. You keep saying you want a game like the one VR is making, but I suspect you want something quite different - if not antithetical. 

    By the way, you state that "Pantheon is not even in pre-alpha." Yes it is. That was the subject of a major announcement. How do you not know this?
    I remember playing in beta and telling people this game wont last long its too easy, but it brought in a whole new generation that had never played MMOs before and to them it was challenging...They had no idea how hard games like EQ and FFXI were.
    AmatheTwoTubes
  • CendhariaCendharia Member UncommonPosts: 319
    Pantheon has integrated voice chat........
    Actually not all of us like voice chat....I dont want to hear someones kid crying or some guy yelling at his girlfriend or wife while I am playing...
    Or someone's garbage truck backing up...beep beep beep,  someone coughing into the mic constantly because he doesn't know how to use push to talk,   someone playing their favorite headbanger music into voice chat...it goes on.   Give me a block or mute feature to tone the inevitable noise makers down.
  • CendhariaCendharia Member UncommonPosts: 319
    Amathe said:
    kitarad said:

     It ended badly with the other guy in my group finding out ...that is another story.
    This story sounds a lot more interesting than this feeble thread. Tell us how it ends! :) 
    My first reaction was to retaliate with something nasty.  Instead I went and did something else, then thought about it.  

    Why do you have to be like this ?  

    I understand your all about Pantheon.  I understand you know everything published about this game, a walking dictionary ready to answer any question before a developer.  I have to say good, that's nice, it really is !..... But you don't have to be the boss here, you simply choose to be here and put your stick in the ground like many of us.  

    We all have a wide range of things to say.... Is it your job to pick and choose ?  


    You really cant see a big difference between a bunch of developers sitting in the same room under perfect conditions.  As it stands now, many are seeing near impossible game play to be played with strangers.  Sure, it's easier for Old School players WITH FRIENDS !!! 

    Correct me if I'm wrong, your the Pantheon dictionary, 
    Visionary Realms is trying to bring back a lost art to many NEW players.  I for one think it's working, millions would like to play this game.  But each and every stream so far is making it look impossible for many strangers to get together and coordinate and have fun.... After all fun is the goal, is it not ?  

    Yes, Yes and Yes......We all know it's pre-alpha , but the streams are not giving this game any Justus !!!
      
    Not that hard to make friends, join a guild..I've joined lots of games over the past 2 decades,  solo.   Never had a problem.   I'm friendly..pretty much all it takes. :)
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    I quit a WoW guild because the guild leader burped into voice chat on average every 30 seconds - and thought it was funny every single time. 
    Cendharia

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • CendhariaCendharia Member UncommonPosts: 319
    Amathe said:
    I quit a WoW guild because the guild leader burped into voice chat on average every 30 seconds - and thought it was funny every single time. 
    Yeah I try to avoid voice chat if I can get away with it,  or just use it when guild or raid leader require.   I don't hesitate to mute someone if they can't behave themselves,  and are distracting from the group or raid focus.  
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,147
    Cendharia said:
    Amathe said:
    I quit a WoW guild because the guild leader burped into voice chat on average every 30 seconds - and thought it was funny every single time. 
    Yeah I try to avoid voice chat if I can get away with it,  or just use it when guild or raid leader require.   I don't hesitate to mute someone if they can't behave themselves,  and are distracting from the group or raid focus.  
    In EVE if someone gets out of hand in voice chat and friendly fire is permitted I'll shoot them.

    Guess thats why most corps encourage me to play a ship repairing role and not fly alpha strike battleships.

    ;)
    AmathePottedPlant22kruler

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • krulerkruler Member UncommonPosts: 589
    Kyleran said:
    Cendharia said:
    Amathe said:
    I quit a WoW guild because the guild leader burped into voice chat on average every 30 seconds - and thought it was funny every single time. 
    Yeah I try to avoid voice chat if I can get away with it,  or just use it when guild or raid leader require.   I don't hesitate to mute someone if they can't behave themselves,  and are distracting from the group or raid focus.  
    In EVE if someone gets out of hand in voice chat and friendly fire is permitted I'll shoot them.

    Guess thats why most corps encourage me to play a ship repairing role and not fly alpha strike battleships.

    ;)

    SO that means you can do the old school MMORPG immortal line instead "Right that's it no heals for you (rep)).

    Nothing said Sod Off you annoying little barstool faster than that if not group leader. 

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,736
    DMKano said:
    Amathe said:
    Pantheon doesn't need integrated voice chat. There are already many voice chat providers (mumble, discord, etc) and that is what everyone uses nowadays. Even in games that have integrated voice chat, the players usually use third party voice chat programs instead. 

    Discord is what everyone uses. Guilds have dropped all others and switched to Discord.

    Discord is the one to rule them all.

    Discord is great, I use it all the time....Here's the problem ! 
    If you not is the same guild as others in your party, how do you set up a temporary channel with strangers ?  

    Hay, I'm just looking out for the other millions. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,147
    edited April 2018
    DMKano said:
    Amathe said:
    Pantheon doesn't need integrated voice chat. There are already many voice chat providers (mumble, discord, etc) and that is what everyone uses nowadays. Even in games that have integrated voice chat, the players usually use third party voice chat programs instead. 

    Discord is what everyone uses. Guilds have dropped all others and switched to Discord.

    Discord is the one to rule them all.

    Discord is great, I use it all the time....Here's the problem ! 
    If you not is the same guild as others in your party, how do you set up a temporary channel with strangers ?  

    Hay, I'm just looking out for the other millions. 
    Kano doesn't PUG, so your words are bouncing off him like arrows on a Knight with +100 plate armor.

    ;)
    delete5230

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • fs23otmfs23otm Member UncommonPosts: 503
    The OP clearly has no experience with the MMO's of yonder.... vote kick? Please... that is a new MMO feature...

    In the old days, and this is how it should be, you name meant everything. You knew the bad players, the jerks, and idiots... and you didn't group with them.

    The guy who ninja loots an item... name ruined across the server.... 
    The healer that afk every 5 mins...its known
    The tank that can't hold threat.... maybe learn the game mechanics cause in old mmo you didn't AE face-pull every mob cause tanks didn't have skills to handle that ( and if you did those group were specialized and had work around for threat management)

    So it is clear the OP doesn't "get it" and is a WoW generation MMO'er

    The biggest thing people in general need to learn is to accept criticism and use it to improve.... OP is right on only one point... Groups need to communicate, not just in the literal sense either. They need to relay information and build on experiences to improve the groups gameplay. You can easily do this in text chat... if the game is not a 'omg spam the button' game that actually foster strategic gameplay. 

     
    GdemamiKyleran
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,736
    fs23otm said:
    The OP clearly has no experience with the MMO's of yonder.... vote kick? Please... that is a new MMO feature...

    In the old days, and this is how it should be, you name meant everything. You knew the bad players, the jerks, and idiots... and you didn't group with them.

    The guy who ninja loots an item... name ruined across the server.... 
    The healer that afk every 5 mins...its known
    The tank that can't hold threat.... maybe learn the game mechanics cause in old mmo you didn't AE face-pull every mob cause tanks didn't have skills to handle that ( and if you did those group were specialized and had work around for threat management)

    So it is clear the OP doesn't "get it" and is a WoW generation MMO'er

    The biggest thing people in general need to learn is to accept criticism and use it to improve.... OP is right on only one point... Groups need to communicate, not just in the literal sense either. They need to relay information and build on experiences to improve the groups gameplay. You can easily do this in text chat... if the game is not a 'omg spam the button' game that actually foster strategic gameplay. 

     

    Yes, I agree and your not making any false statements.  

    Something I like about you is, you read and understood the entire OP.  You don't agree, but at least you didn't twist it around. 

    Anyway, Your right, I'm a second generation mmorpg player from the WoW, EQ2 days.  I recently played P1999 very briefly, not very far.  I found that I did like the concept of harsh unforgiving group play, HOWEVER I did some major life changes that are just now settling back to normal coupled with finding Vanilla Everquest extremely dated in it's mechanics.  I'm not saying this as a blow to EQ but it's very very old in its interface among other things (it's just aged is all). 


    Now on to Pantheon:  
    People say it's niche, I've been arguing this, saying everyone will be playing. 

    However, being a fan and closely watching every live stream I'm starting to worry about who this game is really for !  

    Every fight is a boss 
    Every fight has to be talked about. 
    Every strange anomaly has to be talked about. 
    Every group takes two hours to move across "one field".  
    Every movement is critical.  

    Sure its "pre-alpha".  Things will be tweaked, Balancing will be done.  But understand people are watching this process and getting turned off.  

    As it stands only extreme communication and tolerance of players would survive even one play session.  This would have to be done over and over again for the players life expectancy of the game..... How often will players gather such a tolerant group this often.  

    Yes, it's pre-alpha but the live streams are not doing the game Justus !!!!    
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    They do more talking than necessary because its for stream.  Most viewers that see a fraps of normal dungeon crawling see it as boring because they dont see everything that is being done.
    KyleranAmathe
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