Frustrated player - what to do and where is the PvP?

Aragon100

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Theocritus

It seems odd that people would go to a PVP centered game and complain about PVP...usually its the opposite...They go to a PVE game and complain there is no PVP until they get it.

Sovrath

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

Aragon100

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

I agree that non-consensual PvP is bad.

With the felucca/trammel split all PvP in UO became consensual.

That was what the ones that pledged for UO PvP in SotA was looking for. Instead they got a PvP compromise that PvP players laughed at when they left the game for good.

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

Sovrath

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

But then wouldn't the other group leave?

SlyLoK

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

But then wouldn't the other group leave?

Agreed. UO hit its peak players after Trammel. I'm sure these folks tried to keep that in mind. However the game isn't that good..

Kyleran

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

But then wouldn't the other group leave?

Also, which group is the larger potential market? 

Moirae

You can't force people to pvp if they don't want to. It's called "life". The game is new and right now the players are more concerned with running the storyline than they are pvp. In most games, I've found pvp to be end game boredom filler than the full game. So do tell me, if the game is brand new, why they should bother yet. 

Oh and I've been playing. And no, I won't pvp with you. People with your kind of attitude are why I don't pvp. Why should I when you are obviously only interested in beating people up to make your life meaningful? 

MidPrincess

I'm not playing this but I'm thinking perhaps it's a bit new to have tons of people seeking PvP?  I don't know how slow or fast the leveling progression is, but even if it's silky smooth you'd think it will take a bit of time for enough people to feel confident enough in their characters to go looking for a fight.

Sovrath

MidPrincess said:

I'm not playing this but I'm thinking perhaps it's a bit new to have tons of people seeking PvP?  I don't know how slow or fast the leveling progression is, but even if it's silky smooth you'd think it will take a bit of time for enough people to feel confident enough in their characters to go looking for a fight.

nah, in every game I've played that had ffa pvp (or even RVR) as soon as players were able to get their characters ahead of the curve they would look for a fight.

Hariken

Think of all the pvp focused mmo's and see how dead they are. Yet for some strange reason only known to them these devs just keep making them. Think how alive games like Archage even Eve Online would be if they didn't force pvp on everyone. For mmo's to be successful they shouldn't try to force a play style on everyone. Choice will always be better.

bcbully

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Bruh I still remember the first time I went to SToA forums. They were the most hostil bunch of anti-pvprs I had ever seen, surpassing that of even Everquest Next. This game will certainly suffer the same fate as EQN, for many of the same design decisions. 

Today, if your game does not have good pvp it will be dead on arrival. The days of scripted mobs and quests are over. Those who still want to do that and only that, the pve/antipvp crowd are such a small portion of today’s gamers. Building an mmorpg for them is completely unsustainable, big budget or low budget. It doesn’t matter.

bcbully

Kyleran said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

But then wouldn't the other group leave?

Also, which group is the larger potential market? 

W/o question its the pvp market. 

LadyAugust

PVP or not, my experience with SotA has left me feeling like the direction has been mostly on making a world more so than any sort of game.  It is very shallow gameplay wise.

Sovrath

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

I agree that non-consensual PvP is bad.

With the felucca/trammel split all PvP in UO became consensual.

That was what the ones that pledged for UO PvP in SotA was looking for. Instead they got a PvP compromise that PvP players laughed at when they left the game for good.

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

Well, that depends on what you mean by "non-consensual pvp".

If a game is FFA pvp, meaning that anyone can attack anyone in most places any time then just by signing into the game you are consenting to pvp.

In truth there is probably no such thing as "non consentual pvp". You are either playing a pvp game or not or playing a game that opens itself up to FFA pvp. So you are either on board or not.

If you are not on board then don't play the game. Not every game needs to be made for everyone.

In their case, they realized (as they said, the data is there) that having ffa pvp wasn't really good for the game as far as they saw it. This doesn't mean that there weren't people who didn't love it but the majority most likely did not.

Kyleran

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

But then wouldn't the other group leave?

Also, which group is the larger potential market? 

W/o question its the pvp market. 

Not in vertical progression MMORPGs and definitely not when there's something at stake to lose.

PVP that's "fair" and for "funzies," yeah, I'll agree that is the biggest market.

Most players like team sports,  rather than going to war.

Aragon100

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

But then wouldn't the other group leave?

From kickstarter you can read that there was going to be a slider that put likeminded together so there was no reason for anyone to leave. Noone had to take part in PvP if they didnt want to.

That slider became later on a compromise that was perfect for the ones that didnt enjoy PvP. PvP players left the game after that decision.

Developers decided they didnt want UO PvP players in their game.

Aragon100

Kyleran said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

But then wouldn't the other group leave?

Also, which group is the larger potential market? 

A game described as the spiritual successor to UO draw loads of old UO players to pledge during kickstarter.

Since there is arround tops 1000 active playingthe game today id say it is anybodies guess who were the bigger part.

All didnt leave cause of a broken PvP game but many did.

Aragon100

Moirae said:

You can't force people to pvp if they don't want to. It's called "life". The game is new and right now the players are more concerned with running the storyline than they are pvp. In most games, I've found pvp to be end game boredom filler than the full game. So do tell me, if the game is brand new, why they should bother yet. 

Oh and I've been playing. And no, I won't pvp with you. People with your kind of attitude are why I don't pvp. Why should I when you are obviously only interested in beating people up to make your life meaningful? 

Noone was forced to enter PvP with the game slider we were promised during kickstarter. You need to read up on the game and what was said and when.

Aragon100

Hariken said:

Think of all the pvp focused mmo's and see how dead they are. Yet for some strange reason only known to them these devs just keep making them. Think how alive games like Archage even Eve Online would be if they didn't force pvp on everyone. For mmo's to be successful they shouldn't try to force a play style on everyone. Choice will always be better.

That was the promise we got during kickstarter. Noone would be forced to enter PvP if they didnt want too. It was consensual all the way.

That promise was later on broken by developers and they introduced a compromise that just about all PvP players laughed at when they left the game.

Aragon100

bcbully said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Bruh I still remember the first time I went to SToA forums. They were the most hostil bunch of anti-pvprs I had ever seen, surpassing that of even Everquest Next. This game will certainly suffer the same fate as EQN, for many of the same design decisions. 

Today, if your game does not have good pvp it will be dead on arrival. The days of scripted mobs and quests are over. Those who still want to do that and only that, the pve/antipvp crowd are such a small portion of today’s gamers. Building an mmorpg for them is completely unsustainable, big budget or low budget. It doesn’t matter.

Agree and that is a major reason why this game is almost dead on arrival.

Hariken

Its funny how i love PVP in shooter games but have never liked PVP in mmo's. Mostly its level and gear depended. I have never fought anyone in mmo pvp that was my level and with the same gear. Is always being ganked by someone 10 levels or more higher than me.

Aragon100

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

I agree that non-consensual PvP is bad.

With the felucca/trammel split all PvP in UO became consensual.

That was what the ones that pledged for UO PvP in SotA was looking for. Instead they got a PvP compromise that PvP players laughed at when they left the game for good.

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

Well, that depends on what you mean by "non-consensual pvp".

If a game is FFA pvp, meaning that anyone can attack anyone in most places any time then just by signing into the game you are consenting to pvp.

In truth there is probably no such thing as "non consentual pvp". You are either playing a pvp game or not or playing a game that opens itself up to FFA pvp. So you are either on board or not.

If you are not on board then don't play the game. Not every game needs to be made for everyone.

In their case, they realized (as they said, the data is there) that having ffa pvp wasn't really good for the game as far as they saw it. This doesn't mean that there weren't people who didn't love it but the majority most likely did not.

Trammel players that decided to enter felucca consented to take part in PvP. If they didnt consent to take part in PvP they could have stayed in the twin world trammel.

FFA PvP was going to be consensual PvP with the slider option and looking at the game today and it's population id say they made a very bad decision.

Aragon100

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

But then wouldn't the other group leave?

Also, which group is the larger potential market? 

W/o question its the pvp market. 

Not in vertical progression MMORPGs and definitely not when there's something at stake to lose.

PVP that's "fair" and for "funzies," yeah, I'll agree that is the biggest market.

Most players like team sports,  rather than going to war.

Most populated games today is hardcore PvP games and survivor games. Old UO lost half their population in 1-2 years after it became a WoW game with Age of Shadows feb 2003.

It was loads of PvP players that left for freeshards during that time period.

The market for a good MMO PvP game like old UO is enormous.

Aragon100

Torval said:

Kyleran said:

bcbully said:

Kyleran said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Sovrath said:

Aragon100 said:

Brink1123 - its what, day two into launch and i am already losing interest into the game. i have soloed a handful of trolls, killed 2000 skeletons. about the same wolfs/bears its all the same. the problem is there is nothing to keep my attention(and no i dont have ADHD). i go to shardfalls nobody there and really no reason for anybody to go there. i go full pvp hardly run into anybody pvp. no reds vs blues no faction wars..... WTF i have explored a lot of the world and killed as many npc as i care to.. the only thing that will make me stick around is meaningful player to player combat.....I just cant kill another damn skeleton.

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/frustrating.115808/


Not surpriced since developers decided not to listen at all to the pledgers that pledged for the next UO. Early on a vast majority wanted risk vs rewards like full loot and a skillbased combat system (definetly not a card game).

Instead developer's listened to the one's that wasnt interested in PvP and many of them were hi money pledgers (whales).

Now we can see the result - a almost dead game and just about no PvP.

You reap what you sow.

Just a point of interest, there is an article on MassivleyOP where the developers of UO talk about their experience making the game and that they actually thought the FFA pvp was a mistake.

I wonder if some of that has bled through to this game?

http://massivelyop.com/2018/03/28/gd-2018-ultima-online-post-mortem-with-richard-garriott-starr-long-raph-koster-and-rich-vogel/

With such a low population they sure would have needed the PvP players in the game.

But then wouldn't the other group leave?

Also, which group is the larger potential market? 

W/o question its the pvp market. 

Not in vertical progression MMORPGs and definitely not when there's something at stake to lose.

PVP that's "fair" and for "funzies," yeah, I'll agree that is the biggest market.

Most players like team sports,  rather than going to war.

You nailed it. It also feels like a lot of MMO pvp is setup to give people an opportunity to live out their power fantasies. PvP in the majority of games (non-mmo) works a lot differently. MMO pvp is some of the worst competitive player game design imaginable.

I agree many are but old UO before Age of Shadows was a very good MMO. There havent been another MMO PvP game after thay been even close to that game.

Aragon100

Hariken said:

Its funny how i love PVP in shooter games but have never liked PVP in mmo's. Mostly its level and gear depended. I have never fought anyone in mmo pvp that was my level and with the same gear. Is always being ganked by someone 10 levels or more higher than me.

You missed out on old UO then (before feb 2003). It was not gear based and it was just about always the players skill that was the decider.