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Well it seems you can't have a conversation about having concerns in the coe forums

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  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 166
    for me the explanation is more along the grounds of we are talking about discussions that challenge people's core beliefs and passions

    it's not that the discussions or points on one side or the other shouldn't be heard, or should be squashed, but rather there is a time and a place for everything (fuck i HATE sounding politically correct)

    personally i prefer open discussions, and hence my main reason for being here

    sadly it's human nature and social dynamics, which we don't necessarily have control over

    examples: an atheist isn't going to get much sympathy from a group of christians (or pretty much any other religious group) if he goes into their church and starts challenging their beliefs - a christian would find the same if they went to a meeting of atheists and started preaching the gospel

    a trump supporter isn't going to get a warm reception at a clinton rally, and a clinton supporter isn't going to get one at a trump rally

    in each case the person with an opposing view is often going to get verbal, and in some cases physical, abuse hurled at them

    all too often they are removed from the venue by physical means

    i have however watched and enjoyed debates between opposing viewpoints, when they take place at a 'neutral' venue like a university in the case of most debates regarding religion or politics

    my personal opinion is that we are seeing these social dynamics in action, rather than there being anything to hide


    KyleranNycteliosNeutralEvil
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,532
    for me the explanation is more along the grounds of we are talking about discussions that challenge people's core beliefs and passions

    it's not that the discussions or points on one side or the other shouldn't be heard, or should be squashed, but rather there is a time and a place for everything (fuck i HATE sounding politically correct)

    personally i prefer open discussions, and hence my main reason for being here

    sadly it's human nature and social dynamics, which we don't necessarily have control over

    examples: an atheist isn't going to get much sympathy from a group of christians (or pretty much any other religious group) if he goes into their church and starts challenging their beliefs - a christian would find the same if they went to a meeting of atheists and started preaching the gospel

    a trump supporter isn't going to get a warm reception at a clinton rally, and a clinton supporter isn't going to get one at a trump rally

    in each case the person with an opposing view is often going to get verbal, and in some cases physical, abuse hurled at them

    all too often they are removed from the venue by physical means

    i have however watched and enjoyed debates between opposing viewpoints, when they take place at a 'neutral' venue like a university in the case of most debates regarding religion or politics

    my personal opinion is that we are seeing these social dynamics in action, rather than there being anything to hide


    I largely agree and thus explained so in my earlier post.  They have a right to set the rules on their own site.  Where Caspien crossed the line IMHO was when he told his followers to go to OUTSIDE sites and shut down critics.   That’s simply wrong.
    KyleranNycteliosSpottyGekkoGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,532
    edited April 2018
    Mendel said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Most companies don't want constructive criticism, they want to hear how great they are.
    I have never once worked at a company that didn't actively seek customer input.

    Now I will say, not every company is positioned to act upon customer input in a meaningful way.

    Not sure what weird ass companies you are working for! :o
    The difference in my opinion is that this company is totally reliant on Crowdfunding.  They need the hype to push their constant sales since they failed to attract a publisher.  Their CEO even asked fans to go out to other forums and shut down criticism.

    A company with secure funding can afford public criticism.  A company with uncertain funding, reliant on players constantly pre-purchasing stuff from their store probably has to be less tolerant.
    Yeah but the thing with this company is that the CEO is unprofessional and comes across as a little boy.
    I largely agree,  but their behavior isn’t unique.  And I don’t force myself into what I consider their safe space (their forums).  IMHO if they want to delete every critical post on their forums they can.  They shouldn’t, because they will simply be sealing their fate. I simply post occasionally over there to spark discussion and then step back.  Honestly their Discord is much more militaristic than their forum.  Just try and state anything that varies from the company line there and several community folks will jump on you.  I have literally watched them chase potential customers away because they asked a question...

    Its their ballgame though so you play by their rules there.  Outside though... no... outside I will freely challenge them and call them on obvious impossibilities like their timeline.
    Let's face it.  Questions aren't welcome at the CoE forums, those that ask questions are pariahs.  Or worse.  Their websites are their Ten Commandments, and the developers words are the word of God.  The analogy is just too easy to make.  And too many other projects are following the same model.  We're not watching the construction of games.  We're watching the formation of cults.

    I've not heard their Discord.  I doubt if would actually want to.  It really sounds like they need to shut this feature down if it is driving potential customers away.

    If a developer attacks any questioner or directs followers to shut down critical discussion that paints them in a negative light, I wonder.  Can they really not discuss their product without attacking?  Do they fear that their ideas not stand up to independent scrutiny?  Are they taking every criticism personally?  Even at the extreme, is the project really legitimate or are they hiding something?




    Funny you should use that analogy.  Caspien himself has used the term “Share the Gospel of COE”

    Updated to change "Spread" to "Share" before I am accused of being inaccurate :)
    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 166

    Actually... never mind that will just drag us off topic but if you do have something to substantiate that I’d love to see it in another thread.  The only TANGIBLE thing I am aware of is that they had to lay off staff in Dec. Hardly something a small company, far behind schedule would want to do.
    i was responding to your comment, so presume it was very on topic?

    if you take the laying off of 3 staff in december as the "only tangible thing" you are aware of, and choose to ignore the other tangible things such as the tangible amount they have raised to date, the tangible numbers of staff they are currently employing, then that is your choice

    those "other" tangible things are fact, regardless of your own take on them

    if you believe, regardless of my own comments, that a project of this scale and community backing didn't attract the attention of several publishers who reached out to SBS first, there is little i can say or do to change that belief, other than disagree with it, since i am not going to provide any names, either because i don't have them, or because doing so isn't a smart thing to do given that they may be potential publishers in the future

    you can choose to believe which of those is true also
    Slapshot1188
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    "Spread the gospel" type developers are rarely successful. That's a character flaw and it shows a lack of professional integrity. Stuff like that usually doesn't come out of nowhere either. Guys that do stuff like that are more than likely bumping heads with folks internally as well.
    MendelSlapshot1188Gdemami
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    Shifue Said:

    So with that being said i feel you are right i will go back to lurking in the shadows again and head back to eve with my clan since there is no more real conversation to be had. As well as i have asked for this thread to be relocked as i am tried of hoping for maturity on these forums which from a few of the post since the unlocking of it(which i requested by the way) just goes to show you can't have a different viewpoint from those with blind faith in the ivory tower. 

    It appears that the OPs CoE thread was re-opened, as well as locked again by request of the OP.

    I would agree that perhaps the Moderator acted impulsively when locking this thread in the first place, but it certainly isn't a common occurrence in the CoE forums.

    I have seen some very controversial threads started in CoE forums (Some even posted in these forums by Slapshot) that were never locked and allowed to run their course.
     
    Just my two cents. 
    KyleranDleatherusMadFrenchieNeutralEvil
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,350
    I look at it this way,i like to try and treat people like i would my own family or friends or boss at work.
    This means that when i like anyone else get frustrated or have a bad day or feeling bummed out ,whatever ,i shouldn't put blame on someone else or get ANGRY.

    Like in another forum,some people don't like that i don't respond to their comments.I would think they have some common sense to realize i ignore them for a reason,they are just trash talking or flaming,so why would i respond to that.

    If someone wants to disagree or give their opinion,then great ,i would likely respond to that,but i am not getting all angry and sling flames back n forth.
    However i have seen a lot of cases just in these forums where users get all huffy,they like to change the topic or steer blame on the poster.often using words like TROLL or hater or whatever other childish nonsense they can come up with.

    So if someone goes into the COE forums and flat out says i don't like the way this game does whatever,you respond with your opinion,you don't act like Hitler and say "this is MY FORUM" i will ban you,i will exile you,you are not allow to say anything like that about my game.


    NeutralEvil

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    Wizardry said:
    So if someone goes into the COE forums and flat out says i don't like the way this game does whatever,you respond with your opinion,you don't act like Hitler and say "this is MY FORUM" i will ban you,i will exile you,you are not allow to say anything like that about my game.


    Is this what you think happened?
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,827
    I think there is much to be apreciated from their (or any) community. The problem is that most of the times the toxic ones are the "loudest". But you can't blame them for the discord. As much there are moderators and bots discord servers are almost anarchy and before any moderator can act the damage was already done.

    I gave up interacting with communities in discord channels, they are rabid or radio silent, not much for a middle ground there, regardless the community - so is more about the platform than the community itself.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; Genshin Impact

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,006
    for me the explanation is more along the grounds of we are talking about discussions that challenge people's core beliefs and passions

    it's not that the discussions or points on one side or the other shouldn't be heard, or should be squashed, but rather there is a time and a place for everything (fuck i HATE sounding politically correct)

    personally i prefer open discussions, and hence my main reason for being here

    sadly it's human nature and social dynamics, which we don't necessarily have control over

    examples: an atheist isn't going to get much sympathy from a group of christians (or pretty much any other religious group) if he goes into their church and starts challenging their beliefs - a christian would find the same if they went to a meeting of atheists and started preaching the gospel

    a trump supporter isn't going to get a warm reception at a clinton rally, and a clinton supporter isn't going to get one at a trump rally

    in each case the person with an opposing view is often going to get verbal, and in some cases physical, abuse hurled at them

    all too often they are removed from the venue by physical means

    i have however watched and enjoyed debates between opposing viewpoints, when they take place at a 'neutral' venue like a university in the case of most debates regarding religion or politics

    my personal opinion is that we are seeing these social dynamics in action, rather than there being anything to hide


    I completely agree with your thoughts, there is a time and place for certain questions which is why I rarely visit official forums,  and especially not to post incendiary "questions" with the purpose of igniting a fire storm.

    I joke about the "ivory tower" but I am fine with official forums moderating in whatever manner they wish, even if they choose to stamp out all dissention. 

    I post here...quite often as you can tell, and I enjoy the more open format it provides. I don't care if people "fight" over which side is "lying" about a game, enjoying beating dead horses from time to time and would never dream of telling someone to "do some research" unless I felt they were just being exceptionally lazy.

    I'm intolerant of most attempts to shut down a spirited conversation and try to control my own snarky behaviours which of course I'm not always successful.

    I am however not a fan of dragging conversations from official forums here unless terribly interesting or informative.

    I really don't want to hear about the dirt on another forum, a simple link at most suffices, and dislike when people repost large swaths of controversial conversations.

    If annoyed enough I report them and quite often they get locked down as I'm quite well versed in pointing out to the mods here how it violates either a formal rule or is similar to a previously locked thread.

    ;)



    DleatherusmystichazeAnOldFartNeutralEvil

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

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  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 170
    I always felt following this game was like entering a time portal back to the "golden age" of MMO's when people were still naive enough to believe all this shit from developers about giving them a "dream game". Don't get me wrong, I'm not jaded on MMO's or anything, in fact I haven't really played one for more than a year now and I'm looking for a game to get back into it, but I know now better what to expect from these games and how to temper my expectations, that just comes with experience in life and the genre in general.

    But somehow, the snake oil salesman Jeromy Walsh and his team have managed to suck in the worlds most naive collection of sycophantic starry eyed adherents who congregate before the sermon and seek to cull even the most soft criticism of their true god. I don't see anything particularly special about Mr Walsh or in his baboon like way of communicating his many laughable promises so I'm really at a loss for how this particular game attracted such fervent support from this group of people. They clearly haven't spent any time playing MMO's or at the very least paying attention, because if they did there's no way they would believe more than a very small fraction of the bullshit Walsh would have you take on "faith".

    I don't know, maybe it's me who isn't active enough within this community anymore to make these distinctions but it seems to me this game is incredibly lucky to have this much support from and on this site based on, well, complete and total bullshit.
    AnOldFartGdemami
  • IsilithTehrothIsilithTehroth Member UncommonPosts: 588
    edited June 2018
    cheyane said:
    Yes strangely official forums are rarely where you should go to discuss things that are controversial because the rabid fans and their brigade will arrive in force to shut it down. I swear fans of a game are way worse than the critics. You end up not wanting to discuss the issue at all and just walk away from the game. 
    For a period of time it was like that on these forums too. I remember I was banned on different occasions for debating with others the flaws of particular games and what needed to be changed and why then getting banned by an over zealous mod because he happened to fanboi for that particular mmo(swtor,Ps2,Gw2).

    It seems now that this site is pretty much dead and mmos in general aswell that opinions aren't as one sided as they wanted it to be back then. 

    MurderHerd

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