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As Ethereum price drops, GPU prices inch toward normalcy

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    Renoaku said:
    So in other words if I had over 500 grand on hand what I should do is wait for a new cryptocurrency, then buy up all the highest end graphics cards and resell them for profit when the price spikes?
    That would be extremely risky.  What the miners usually do is to look at GPU prices, cryptocurrency values, and mining hash rates.  If you see that if you buy a $500 GPU today, you'll make $200 per month on it at current prices, then you buy in.

    The serious miners also look at which particular GPUs fare relatively better at various algorithms.  For example, why buy a GeForce GTX 1080 for $500 for Ethereum mining if a Radeon RX 570 for $200 is faster?  And then they'll do things like overclock the memory and underclock the GPU chip itself, with the latter to save on power.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    laserit said:
    Anything you might make when you cash out is someone else's loss
    laserit, where the hell have you been?  This forum isn't nearly as much fun without you, yo!
    Been playing with joysticks of a different kind ;)



    Its a lot of fun :)
    [Deleted User]QuizzicalRidelynn

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    Okay, so which crypto-currency is currently recognized by the US government, champ?  Which currency should I invest in that the US will exchange for the dollar?

    What's 100% fact is you don't know what you're talking about.  I'm not trying to embarrass you, but you seem to want to embarrass yourself so go ahead.
    All of them are recognized by the IRS as taxable.  :D
    FlyByKnight
  • GinazGinaz Member RarePosts: 2,357
    edited March 2018

    I'd say you've been talking out your hind parts every time the topic gets brought up.  

    The same companies you all bank with, buy processors from, and purchase fuel from are heavily vested in block chain AND crypto.

    ^That's 100% fact.

    The information is available within a few keystrokes and button press, but you're clearly of the remedially educated ideologue ilk. Your "time" has 0 value.

    Please tell us what governments are currently backing crypto currencies or have plans to do so soon.  The only ones I'm seeing that are, are shady as fuck nations like Venezuela, Russia and China.  It looks like things are being driven by dictators and criminals.  Yeah, no thanks.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-12/why-governments-might-join-the-cryptocurrency-craze-quicktake


    Post edited by Ginaz on
    [Deleted User]

    Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited March 2018
    Here's the list of dictators and criminals for the uneducated peons. 

    Banks & Finance

    • JP Morgan
    • ING
    • BBVA
    • Master Card
    • National Bank of Canada
    • etc
    Tech
    • Intel
    • Microsoft
    • Cisco
    • Hewlett Packard
    • Samsung
    • Toyota Research Institute
    Others
    • Shell
    • BP
    • Comcast
    • Pfizer
    • etc
    The US government doesn't accept crypto-currency as payment yet they take their cut off interest earned regardless if you cashed out or not. I was lucky enough to have to submit a 1099-K for 2017.

    Any other Middle American corn husking trucker hat got anything else to add? 
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Here's the list of dictators and criminals for the uneducated peons. 

    Banks & Finance

    • JP Morgan
    • ING
    • BBVA
    • Master Card
    • National Bank of Canada
    • etc
    Tech
    • Intel
    • Microsoft
    • Cisco
    • Hewlett Packard
    • Samsung
    • Toyota Research Institute
    Others
    • Shell
    • BP
    • Comcast
    • Pfizer
    • etc
    The US government doesn't accept crypto-currency as payment yet they take their cut off interest earned regardless if you cashed out or not. I was lucky enough to have to submit a 1099-K for 2017.

    Any other Middle American corn husking trucker hat got anything else to add? 
    I don't know what the f$%^ I'm talking about. I'm going to keep saying incorrect things and see if it sticks. F$^% facts, math, and science. It's all bout my gut and baby Jesus.
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Here's the list of dictators and criminals for the uneducated peons. 

    Banks & Finance

    • JP Morgan
    • ING
    • BBVA
    • Master Card
    • National Bank of Canada
    • etc
    Tech
    • Intel
    • Microsoft
    • Cisco
    • Hewlett Packard
    • Samsung
    • Toyota Research Institute
    Others
    • Shell
    • BP
    • Comcast
    • Pfizer
    • etc
    The US government doesn't accept crypto-currency as payment yet they take their cut off interest earned regardless if you cashed out or not. I was lucky enough to have to submit a 1099-K for 2017.

    Any other Middle American corn husking trucker hat got anything else to add? 
    Apparently, you've invested large amounts of capital in something that isn't actually worth anything.  Good luck!
    If that was the case I'd be investing in your knowledge and words. Thanks.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Here's the list of dictators and criminals for the uneducated peons. 

    Banks & Finance

    • JP Morgan
    • ING
    • BBVA
    • Master Card
    • National Bank of Canada
    • etc
    Tech
    • Intel
    • Microsoft
    • Cisco
    • Hewlett Packard
    • Samsung
    • Toyota Research Institute
    Others
    • Shell
    • BP
    • Comcast
    • Pfizer
    • etc
    The US government doesn't accept crypto-currency as payment yet they take their cut off interest earned regardless if you cashed out or not. I was lucky enough to have to submit a 1099-K for 2017.

    Any other Middle American corn husking trucker hat got anything else to add? 
    Apparently, you've invested large amounts of capital in something that isn't actually worth anything.  Good luck!
    If that was the case I'd be investing in your knowledge and words. Thanks.
    I'm sorry if you don't like the truth, but the truth has nothing to do with me.  It exists regardless of whether or not I report it.  You seem to want to believe the blockchain generates value all on its own.  You're welcome to believe that but you're wrong.

    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Interesting that FlyByKnight has zero evidence to support his fantasy of a new world order but we have 1000s of years of evidence to know that it won't happen.  I guess some people have to relearn history ... and learn how currency works even after it's been explained to them ...

    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Interesting that FlyByKnight has zero evidence to support his fantasy of a new world order but we have 1000s of years of evidence to know that it won't happen.  I guess some people have to relearn history ... and learn how currency works even after it's been explained to them ...

    Noted.  When you post something of worth, I will respond appropriately.  I do apologize if I bruised your fragile ego, but hopefully you learned something.
    You didn't know banks or any other big corporations were involved in the technology or currencies. You sure as hell had no idea Uncle Sam is collecting off of the capital gains. If you were capable of learning I'd say you were the one educated, but you're you. 

    Good luck on your run for congress. The floor is yours.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,816
    I don't understand the argument between the two of you. Is it the argument that currencies are going to fail one day, or is the argument that you can't get rich off of crypto currency? 




  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I don't understand the argument between the two of you. Is it the argument that currencies are going to fail one day, or is the argument that you can't get rich off of crypto currency? 


    There's uneducated people saying incorrect things to push their narrative on block chain and crypto-currency when google is right there. That's all that is happening.

    I wouldn't make a cock-sure statement about something unless it was from a position of knowledge, some folks don't follow that principle though.

    I won't be addressing it with them any further. The information I provided is pretty straight forward, and can be checked and validated.

    I'm not a psychic, or I would have made more money last year. I just think it's silly when someone keeps saying dumb wrong shit over and over even after getting smacked in the face with the facts.
    maskedweasel
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,816
    I don't understand the argument between the two of you. Is it the argument that currencies are going to fail one day, or is the argument that you can't get rich off of crypto currency? 


    There's no argument.  FlyByKnight seems to think that unregulated currency will have lasting value.  He is objectively wrong.  My opinion has nothing to do with that.  He's just wrong.  I recognize his wrongness and I'm pointing it out. It's not an argument, it's a lesson.
    I guess it depends on what you mean by "lasting" value.  Bitcoin has been around for nearly a decade.  It's a pretty volatile market, and while it is regarded as a currency it doesn't really act like a currency, but more of a value store.  In that sense, yeah, unregulated "currencies" in that situation could hold their value for a long time, it just depends on your definition of "lasting". 

    Despite that, a lot of places do take it like a currency... but ethereum while different in nature is being used in a similar way.  

    Either way you look at it though, there are situations where the right "investment" in a currency could reap very real short term rewards.  



  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I don't understand the argument between the two of you. Is it the argument that currencies are going to fail one day, or is the argument that you can't get rich off of crypto currency? 


    There's no argument.  FlyByKnight seems to think that unregulated currency will have lasting value.  He is objectively wrong.  My opinion has nothing to do with that.  He's just wrong.  I recognize his wrongness and I'm pointing it out. It's not an argument, it's a lesson.
    I guess it depends on what you mean by "lasting" value.  Bitcoin has been around for nearly a decade.  It's a pretty volatile market, and while it is regarded as a currency it doesn't really act like a currency, but more of a value store.  In that sense, yeah, unregulated "currencies" in that situation could hold their value for a long time, it just depends on your definition of "lasting". 

    Despite that, a lot of places do take it like a currency... but ethereum while different in nature is being used in a similar way.  

    Either way you look at it though, there are situations where the right "investment" in a currency could reap very real short term rewards.  
    FYI, I never said any currency would have any lasting value. The individual is lying and grabbing at straws. My words are right there in plain view.

    I think there are many problems with the crypto-currency market in general for the reasons I said and only time will tell where the chips fall. I'm not advising anyone to do anything and I wouldn't if I could.

    What I consider silly arguments
    • Crypto-currency is ran by dictators and criminals.
    • All crypto-currencies are ponzi schemes
    • Crypto-currencies aren't backed by any legitimate institutions or recognized by US government
    • Crypto-currency has no value because it's "not real"
    • Crypto-currency is bad because the bad men use it to buy bad things

    The current yee-haw speaking from hind quarters
    • Doesn't know the difference between an ICO or Token
    • Had no clue what institutions are invested monetarily or as board members in any tech
    • Had no idea IRS is collecting from the capital gains
    • Doesn't understand what block chain is, or why it's considered ground breaking
    • Doesn't know anything about mining and what purpose it serves to the currency
    • Won't make the effort to even look before speaking on it
    That's the only real issue from where I stand. Everything else about people being irresponsible with their finances, jumping on a bandwagon late, or trying to get rich quick is fair game.
    maskedweasel
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,011
    edited March 2018
    All currency, goods and services are based on one thing, trust. You trust the service will be decent, that the goods will do what you want and will stay in acceptable condition, that the currency will pay for what you want and is worth what it is valued at.

    As long as that trust remains economies work, you will use that service again, buy those goods again, buy and use more of that currency or save it for later. But if the trust breaks down, the economics breaks down and that's where something like a cryptocurrency is very vulnerable.

    Everything's inherent value is dependant on that trust but certain commodities are more dependent. Currencies and shares have no intrinsic value other than what we give them, they do not exist in the real world though they are often based on things that do like governments and companies.

    Cryptocurrencies have backing, but not in the same way governments and companies can give direct backing. So they are a bubble waiting to burst, and the more they become overvalued the more likely that will happen.

    Mind you buying some cryptocurrency does not give you the exposure buying PC's or PC cards does. Unless its really easy to sell these on without a big price drop, about which I am not sure.
    Post edited by Scot on
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,426
    edited March 2018
    Quizzical said:
    Vrika said:
    Torval said:
    So is this what it's going to be from now on? We all scramble to get cards and build rigs in between crypto lulls?
    No, it's more likely that this is a one time thing. It required the combination of:
     1. Huge price increase in cryptocurrency mined with GPUs. Ethereum caused this shortage, for example Bitcoin couldn't have caused it because it's not mined with GPUs any more.
     2. Very little existing mining hardware capable of mining that currency, meaning that the new hardware purchased had very little competition
     3. We've had global RAM shortage since early 2017 that's prevented GPU manufacturers from increasing their production

    It's likely that we'll see occasional shortages of some GPUs in the future, but a shortage that lasts this long and affects this many graphic card models is likely a one time thing.
    Bitcoin mining actually did cause a GPU shortage back in 2011.  That was only for AMD GPUs, however, as Nvidia GPUs of that era were terrible at mining.  Gamers who wanted higher end GPUs could still buy them, even if their options were limited to Nvidia cards that put out way too much heat.
    Yes, but now there are ASIC miners for Bitcoin so that it couldn't cause a shortage any more.
     
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,356
    And people said ASICs for Eth wouldnt be made.
    [Deleted User]
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    Ridelynn said:
    And people said ASICs for Eth wouldnt be made.
    I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about there.  Search engines find a lot of rumors and claims of Ethereum mining ASICs, some of which are years old.  I found a couple sites claiming to sell Ethereum mining ASICs, but they're out of stock.  And from the specs, they might just be a box with a bunch of suitably tuned GPUs in it.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,356
    Quizzical said:
    Ridelynn said:
    And people said ASICs for Eth wouldnt be made.
    I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about there.  Search engines find a lot of rumors and claims of Ethereum mining ASICs, some of which are years old.  I found a couple sites claiming to sell Ethereum mining ASICs, but they're out of stock.  And from the specs, they might just be a box with a bunch of suitably tuned GPUs in it.
    Just a few mentions...
    It depends on which cryptocurrency we're talking about.  There have been ASICs for Bitcoin for several years now, so that's nothing new.  If they're going to build an Ethereum-mining ASIC, then I'd be very curious how they're going to do that.  
    Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/470824/miners-make-it-harder-to-find-budget-video-cards/p5#bH8WwTzMOl2zxt04.99

    But the advantage of such an ASIC would be the same performance as a GPU in less wattage and die space.  It wouldn't be getting 50 times the performance of consumer hardware like with a Bitcoin-mining ASIC.  So you kind of could build an ASIC for Ethereum, but very few companies would have the expertise to do so and it wouldn't have anywhere near the same upside as with Bitcoin.
    If AMD or Nvidia believed that Ethereum mining was still going to be eating up all of the GPUs three years from now, then maybe they would create such an ASIC.  But if you start today and then have a product ready to bring to market in two years after Ethereum prices have collapsed, then you just spend $50 million in development on a product that no one wants.  That's quite a risk, and for a product that maybe saves you $50-$100 as compared to selling an ordinary GPU.
    Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/470824/miners-make-it-harder-to-find-budget-video-cards/p5#bH8WwTzMOl2zxt04.99


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    Well yes, I've said that the gains from an Ethereum ASIC are massively smaller than from a Bitcoin ASIC.  But from your quote, I thought you were implying that there were now Ethereum ASICs, which still seem to be unavailable.  If I misinterpreted what you meant, then I apologize.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,356
    edited March 2018
    https://www.ccn.com/bitmain-has-developed-an-ethereum-asic-miner-wall-street-analyst-claims/

    True, not shipping yet, but it's there.

    and

    Today, it's the ethereum miners who are bothering you.  Ethereum basically decided that bitcoin being mined by ASICs so that some guy in China has half of the world's bitcoin mining capability is a bad thing, and set out to build a cryptocurrency hashing algorithm that you couldn't build an ASIC for.  Rather than computations, Ethereum mining is mostly based on doing random lookups into a large table of around 3 GB or so.  You're not fitting 3 GB of cache onto an ASIC.
    Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/470824/miners-make-it-harder-to-find-budget-video-cards/p6#X5bIclRgQCoMQaUr.99


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    edited March 2018
    Rumors that an Ethereum-mining ASIC will show up any day now have been around for years.  I'll find them more credible when such ASICs actually show up--and real ASICs, not just a box with specs that make it look like there might be GPUs inside.

    I think the best that an Ethereum-mining ASIC would be able to do is to basically match the performance of a GPU, but with less power consumption and less die size.

    But it's also important to realize that just because it can be done doesn't mean that it would be easy.  Considering how much Nvidia and AMD struggled with their early memory controllers for GDDR5 and HBM2, in spite of having a very long prior history of implementing high-throughput memory standards, I'd expect anyone else who tries to create an Ethereum-mining ASIC to be in for a much longer learning curve than they might hope.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    I'm not hedging on the success of any specific currency but I really hate seeing people say absolutely stupidly wrong things for the sake of their personal opinion. It seems to be the same brain surgeons too.

    To say crypto currency has "no backing" while search engines exist is the talk of an absolute imbecile. Calling all of them "ponzi-scheme" is imbecilic. You're upset because you can't buy a graphic card so you can play video games. I get it, still... don't be daft.

    It's new, the market is not regulated, and there's a lot of gambling going on. Naturally that causes sharks to circle the waters. It's still not intelligent to brush with broad strokes.

    The same companies you all bank with, buy processors from, and purchase fuel from are heavily vested in block chain AND crypto. It's not going anywhere any time soon. If you think the jackass who literally caused the Dow to drop 700+ points because "trade wars are easy" is gonna do ANY THING you're a fool. That's 2 more years of holding your breath right there. As long as there is some real tech and solid white paper behind some of these companies don't expect it all to disappear.

    I suggest you all strap the hell in, do some research and speak from a position of knowledge at the least.
    I think there will eventually be "official" crypto-currencies that are backed by governments and the banking system, but anyone who thinks unregulated crypto like bitcoin and ethereum will stand the test of time is living in fantasy land.  And all that's required to recognize that is a basic understanding of how currency works; no google-fu needed.
    So what do you call the crypto-currencies that are already backed by banks and governments?

    Repeating incorrect things over and over doesn't make them correct, it only makes you leader of the free world.


    Sorry, but there are no legitimate banks that support crypto currency.   You are mistaken.
    Gdemami
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,944
    Still not seeing much of a price drop.....
    laseritVrika

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,426
    edited April 2018
    Asm0deus said:
    Still not seeing much of a price drop.....
    The prices are dropping, but there are still crypto miners buying cards, there's still global RAM shortage, merchants' inventory levels are very low, and on top of that there are a lot of gamers who have delayed buying new GPU and are just waiting for a little better opportunity. It's going to be a slow price decline, not a quick crash.
    Asm0deus
     
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