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As Ethereum price drops, GPU prices inch toward normalcy

QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
As of right now, Ethereum is just below $523, the lowest it has been in more than three months, and down more than 60% from its peak.  As it drops in value, GPU prices are coming down, too.  Right now, you can buy a GeForce GTX 1080 Ti for about $1000, a GeForce GTX 1080 for $600, a Radeon RX Vega 64 for $900, and a Radeon RX Vega 56 for $650.  That's as compared to an MSRP of $700, $500, $500, and $400, respectively.  The AMD cards still carry a higher premium over MSRP as they have for most of the last year because AMD's GPU architectures are more suited to mining than Nvidia's.

That's still a hefty price hike as compared to MSRP, of course.  But it's movement in the right direction.  Surely people will eventually figure out that mined cryptocurrencies don't benefit anyone but organized crime, miners who got in early and then got lucky, and the vendors who sell stuff to support the mining ecosystem.  That's not a market that most rational people would want to enter.  Once the bubble pops entirely, GPU prices can return to normal.

Of course, memory prices are still ridiculous.  Way back in 2011, I saw a Black Friday sale of 16 GB of memory for $50.  That was an exceptionally low price for its day, of course, and also during a period of very low memory prices that drove Elpida bankrupt and reduced the number of major memory vendors from four to three.  But today, 16 GB starts at about $100 for DDR3 or $150 for DDR4.
wandericachocolate42069maskedweasel
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Comments

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,426
    During the last week I've seen an increase in used GPU sales. I'm from a small country so chance plays a large role in it, but it feels a bit like some crypto miners selling their GPUs now that the GPU prices are still high.
    Quizzicalblueturtle13
     
  • lugallugal Member UncommonPosts: 671
    Governments run like that of Greece drove thousands to pull money out of the central bank and hide it in crypto. This can happen again, especially if an economy takes a dive and banks start dropping. Governments hate crypto cuz it circumvents their controls. For good and bad reasons. I regret not jumping in when Bitcoin was less than a $0.01, but ah well.
    I hope the card makers do something to make their cards less attractive to miners, but that wont happen. So I now wait for prices to go down to normal, no way I'm gonna pay 2x the MSRP for a card to play a video game. Might have to resort to playing on laptops.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • wandericawanderica Member UncommonPosts: 370
    edited March 2018
    That is good news.  i was not looking forward to $1500 2080s in a few months.  It was so bad at one point that the Titan XP was the better performance per dollar option at over $1000.  Hopefully AMD and nVidia can do something about this before the next cryptocurrency blows up.  We have a real problem when the new APUs are an attractive option because you can't afford a 1050, much less 1060 or up. 

    On the bright side, ebay should see a flood of cheap used cards soon for those that managed to wait out this storm of ridiculous prices.


  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I'm not hedging on the success of any specific currency but I really hate seeing people say absolutely stupidly wrong things for the sake of their personal opinion. It seems to be the same brain surgeons too.

    To say crypto currency has "no backing" while search engines exist is the talk of an absolute imbecile. Calling all of them "ponzi-scheme" is imbecilic. You're upset because you can't buy a graphic card so you can play video games. I get it, still... don't be daft.

    It's new, the market is not regulated, and there's a lot of gambling going on. Naturally that causes sharks to circle the waters. It's still not intelligent to brush with broad strokes.

    The same companies you all bank with, buy processors from, and purchase fuel from are heavily vested in block chain AND crypto. It's not going anywhere any time soon. If you think the jackass who literally caused the Dow to drop 700+ points because "trade wars are easy" is gonna do ANY THING you're a fool. That's 2 more years of holding your breath right there. As long as there is some real tech and solid white paper behind some of these companies don't expect it all to disappear.

    I suggest you all strap the hell in, do some research and speak from a position of knowledge at the least.
    GdemamiPhryCelciuschocolate42069Waanjimmywolf[Deleted User]Psym0n
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    I'm not hedging on the success of any specific currency but I really hate seeing people say absolutely stupidly wrong things for the sake of their personal opinion. It seems to be the same brain surgeons too.

    To say crypto currency has "no backing" while search engines exist is the talk of an absolute imbecile. Calling all of them "ponzi-scheme" is imbecilic. You're upset because you can't buy a graphic card so you can play video games. I get it, still... don't be daft.

    It's new, the market is not regulated, and there's a lot of gambling going on. Naturally that causes sharks to circle the waters. It's still not intelligent to brush with broad strokes.

    The same companies you all bank with, buy processors from, and purchase fuel from are heavily vested in block chain AND crypto. It's not going anywhere any time soon. If you think the jackass who literally caused the Dow to drop 700+ points because "trade wars are easy" is gonna do ANY THING you're a fool. That's 2 more years of holding your breath right there. As long as there is some real tech and solid white paper behind some of these companies don't expect it all to disappear.

    I suggest you all strap the hell in, do some research and speak from a position of knowledge at the least.
    Transaction charges, will kill crypto currencies faster than a falling piano :p
    Gdemami
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Phry said:
    I'm not hedging on the success of any specific currency but I really hate seeing people say absolutely stupidly wrong things for the sake of their personal opinion. It seems to be the same brain surgeons too.

    To say crypto currency has "no backing" while search engines exist is the talk of an absolute imbecile. Calling all of them "ponzi-scheme" is imbecilic. You're upset because you can't buy a graphic card so you can play video games. I get it, still... don't be daft.

    It's new, the market is not regulated, and there's a lot of gambling going on. Naturally that causes sharks to circle the waters. It's still not intelligent to brush with broad strokes.

    The same companies you all bank with, buy processors from, and purchase fuel from are heavily vested in block chain AND crypto. It's not going anywhere any time soon. If you think the jackass who literally caused the Dow to drop 700+ points because "trade wars are easy" is gonna do ANY THING you're a fool. That's 2 more years of holding your breath right there. As long as there is some real tech and solid white paper behind some of these companies don't expect it all to disappear.

    I suggest you all strap the hell in, do some research and speak from a position of knowledge at the least.
    Transaction charges, will kill crypto currencies faster than a falling piano :p
    That was an issue with certain exchanges with specific currency. The currency named in this thread doesn't have an issue with transaction charges. The most popular currency was upgraded to to be faster and cheaper on the most popular exchange.

    Your statement is broad and in general false. What else ya got?
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,554



    Absolutely loved this show
    Ridelynn[Deleted User]
    Chamber of Chains
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 19,011
    Nearly everyone is cautious of get rich quick schemes. But add technology and peoples common sense goes out the door. Golden rule, by the time it comes to the mainstream media's attention, the chances of it being a money spinner for you are slim. There is big money being made in crypto, by investors buying into the whole idea. But unless you have big money you won't be making big money.

    The financial sector sees this as an area of growth but if you are old enough to remember 2008, it will help you understand what is happening here. As long as money is being made everyone is happy and everyone wants a bigger and bigger slice. That leads to overinvestment, and overvaluation. Once people wake up to this the price tumbles, investors know this and intend to be out before that happens.

    For the average dude buying graphics cards and maybe even PC's to mine crypto, he can't bail out as easily. We have heard the price is falling, he is going to be left with egg on his face.

    One of our posters has questioned our knowledge about cryptocurrencies, can he explain to us how they are protected from being like any other digital bubble that goes Pop!

    Mind you if you were in early and made a mint good luck to you, that's the way for individual punters to do it.
    Gdemami
  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 555
    Probably, til crypto coins/currency either is made by governments or total debunked as stupid way to waste money like the "Tulip Craze".

    Gdemami
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 11,816
    Some crypto currencies were a good investment at one time, but the markets are volatile, and essentially miners look at it like "free money" just.. that freedom is subjective.  

    People invest in anything they believe has value.  In the 90s people were going crazy over beanie babies because they were highly prized and valued (I can't even recall why) and some of them sold for quite a lot.  There are many CCs out there that are like beanie babies, they are a quick hit fad, and some people can capitalize on them.

    Eventually the volatility will settle some, once CC behaves more like regular currency and not stocks.  Bitcoins gained and lost 10s of thousands at this point, and Steam no longer allows bitcoin as payment.   

    Without knowing what prices will be tomorrow, whether you should cash out currencies or hang on to them, or if what I bought for 1 coin today, will cost 5 coins next week, I'm surprised companies even bother taking them as payment at all. 
    Gdemami



  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,426
    edited March 2018
    Torval said:
    So is this what it's going to be from now on? We all scramble to get cards and build rigs in between crypto lulls?
    No, it's more likely that this is a one time thing. It required the combination of:
     1. Huge price increase in cryptocurrency mined with GPUs. Ethereum caused this shortage, for example Bitcoin couldn't have caused it because it's not mined with GPUs any more.
     2. Very little existing mining hardware capable of mining that currency, meaning that the new hardware purchased had very little competition
     3. We've had global RAM shortage since early 2017 that's prevented GPU manufacturers from increasing their production

    It's likely that we'll see occasional shortages of some GPUs in the future, but a shortage that lasts this long and affects this many graphic card models is likely a one time thing.
    maskedweasel
     
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,356
    DMKano said:
    Crypto currency is not something i am willing to support as its inherently meaningless.

    The vast gpu power used to mine crypto could be instead used for some actual real-world beneficial scientific research.

    Instead we have masses falling for an elaborate Ponze scheme, /smh

    Yeah no thanks.

    At least now that crypton has been tanking for a while, masses are realzing that their dreams of get rich quick scheme was a joke on them.

    lessons learned hopefully, but probably not


    Well said, I feel exactly the same way.
    Gdemami
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 4,181
    Not much has changed here apparently...
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I'm not hedging on the success of any specific currency but I really hate seeing people say absolutely stupidly wrong things for the sake of their personal opinion. It seems to be the same brain surgeons too.

    To say crypto currency has "no backing" while search engines exist is the talk of an absolute imbecile. Calling all of them "ponzi-scheme" is imbecilic. You're upset because you can't buy a graphic card so you can play video games. I get it, still... don't be daft.

    It's new, the market is not regulated, and there's a lot of gambling going on. Naturally that causes sharks to circle the waters. It's still not intelligent to brush with broad strokes.

    The same companies you all bank with, buy processors from, and purchase fuel from are heavily vested in block chain AND crypto. It's not going anywhere any time soon. If you think the jackass who literally caused the Dow to drop 700+ points because "trade wars are easy" is gonna do ANY THING you're a fool. That's 2 more years of holding your breath right there. As long as there is some real tech and solid white paper behind some of these companies don't expect it all to disappear.

    I suggest you all strap the hell in, do some research and speak from a position of knowledge at the least.
    I think there will eventually be "official" crypto-currencies that are backed by governments and the banking system, but anyone who thinks unregulated crypto like bitcoin and ethereum will stand the test of time is living in fantasy land.  And all that's required to recognize that is a basic understanding of how currency works; no google-fu needed.
    So what do you call the crypto-currencies that are already backed by banks and governments?

    Repeating incorrect things over and over doesn't make them correct, it only makes you leader of the free world.


    maskedweasel
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387
    Excuse my ignorance but, how does the price of Ethereum has to with GPU might I ask?

    Is the price of Ethereum hedged against hardware prices or something?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    Excuse my ignorance but, how does the price of Ethereum has to with GPU might I ask?

    Is the price of Ethereum hedged against hardware prices or something?
    The reason GPU prices are so high is that the Ethereum miners are buying them all so that they can use them to mine.  If the price of Ethereum drops far enough that mining Ethereum won't pay for the cost of buying the GPU, then they'll stop buying them and let gamers have them.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    Vrika said:
    Torval said:
    So is this what it's going to be from now on? We all scramble to get cards and build rigs in between crypto lulls?
    No, it's more likely that this is a one time thing. It required the combination of:
     1. Huge price increase in cryptocurrency mined with GPUs. Ethereum caused this shortage, for example Bitcoin couldn't have caused it because it's not mined with GPUs any more.
     2. Very little existing mining hardware capable of mining that currency, meaning that the new hardware purchased had very little competition
     3. We've had global RAM shortage since early 2017 that's prevented GPU manufacturers from increasing their production

    It's likely that we'll see occasional shortages of some GPUs in the future, but a shortage that lasts this long and affects this many graphic card models is likely a one time thing.
    Bitcoin mining actually did cause a GPU shortage back in 2011.  That was only for AMD GPUs, however, as Nvidia GPUs of that era were terrible at mining.  Gamers who wanted higher end GPUs could still buy them, even if their options were limited to Nvidia cards that put out way too much heat.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    I'm not hedging on the success of any specific currency but I really hate seeing people say absolutely stupidly wrong things for the sake of their personal opinion. It seems to be the same brain surgeons too.

    To say crypto currency has "no backing" while search engines exist is the talk of an absolute imbecile. Calling all of them "ponzi-scheme" is imbecilic. You're upset because you can't buy a graphic card so you can play video games. I get it, still... don't be daft.

    It's new, the market is not regulated, and there's a lot of gambling going on. Naturally that causes sharks to circle the waters. It's still not intelligent to brush with broad strokes.

    The same companies you all bank with, buy processors from, and purchase fuel from are heavily vested in block chain AND crypto. It's not going anywhere any time soon. If you think the jackass who literally caused the Dow to drop 700+ points because "trade wars are easy" is gonna do ANY THING you're a fool. That's 2 more years of holding your breath right there. As long as there is some real tech and solid white paper behind some of these companies don't expect it all to disappear.

    I suggest you all strap the hell in, do some research and speak from a position of knowledge at the least.
    I think there will eventually be "official" crypto-currencies that are backed by governments and the banking system, but anyone who thinks unregulated crypto like bitcoin and ethereum will stand the test of time is living in fantasy land.  And all that's required to recognize that is a basic understanding of how currency works; no google-fu needed.
    So what do you call the crypto-currencies that are already backed by banks and governments?
    There's an enormous difference between saying that blockchain and cryptocurrencies have a bright future versus saying that mined cryptocurrencies that already exist have a bright future.  The former is almost certainly true, but I'm far more skeptical of the latter.

    What are all of these crypto-currencies that are already backed by governments?  I'm aware of one that the dictator of Venezuela issued in a desperate attempt to be able to borrow more money so that he can spend it today, but that's it.
    AethaerynGdemami
  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,149
    Currencies should not be that strong of an investment.  I was like a good ideas mixed with a ponzi scheme based on the finite number.

    Crypto currencies are fine - minus hacking etc. but I would not invest in them.  Invest in the tech that comes from blockchain instead.

    As far as GPUs. . YAY!  I will need one soon and I was hoping for the perfect storm of increased production and reduced demand. It might work out perfectly!

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,149
    Quizzical said:
    Excuse my ignorance but, how does the price of Ethereum has to with GPU might I ask?

    Is the price of Ethereum hedged against hardware prices or something?
    The reason GPU prices are so high is that the Ethereum miners are buying them all so that they can use them to mine.  If the price of Ethereum drops far enough that mining Ethereum won't pay for the cost of buying the GPU, then they'll stop buying them and let gamers have them.
    Yes, mainstream articles are already suggesting this and the fact that the "founder" of Eth has moved on suggests that there is a future for crypto but not the increased cost type.  It makes sense in a lot of ways to use the technology though. 

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387
    Quizzical said:
    Excuse my ignorance but, how does the price of Ethereum has to with GPU might I ask?

    Is the price of Ethereum hedged against hardware prices or something?
    The reason GPU prices are so high is that the Ethereum miners are buying them all so that they can use them to mine.  If the price of Ethereum drops far enough that mining Ethereum won't pay for the cost of buying the GPU, then they'll stop buying them and let gamers have them.
    Doesn't most crypto miners steals other people's CPU/GPU time on other people's pc to mine crypto currency anyways?

    I thought even if they don't they'll probably use so-so second hardware to run it. Doubt many of them will be using absolute top end stuff.

    I think it is probably more likely that GPU prices will be linked to price of rare-earth metals as a major factor rather than demand, and rare-earths were going up, that might be why we weren't seeing much drop in GPU prices.

    https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/01/09/1285788/0/en/Rare-Earth-Metals-Market-to-cross-20bn-by-2024-Global-Market-Insights-Inc.html



    Gdemami
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    Quizzical said:
    Excuse my ignorance but, how does the price of Ethereum has to with GPU might I ask?

    Is the price of Ethereum hedged against hardware prices or something?
    The reason GPU prices are so high is that the Ethereum miners are buying them all so that they can use them to mine.  If the price of Ethereum drops far enough that mining Ethereum won't pay for the cost of buying the GPU, then they'll stop buying them and let gamers have them.
    Doesn't most crypto miners steals other people's CPU/GPU time on other people's pc to mine crypto currency anyways?

    I thought even if they don't they'll probably use so-so second hardware to run it. Doubt many of them will be using absolute top end stuff.

    I think it is probably more likely that GPU prices will be linked to price of rare-earth metals as a major factor rather than demand, and rare-earths were going up, that might be why we weren't seeing much drop in GPU prices.

    https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/01/09/1285788/0/en/Rare-Earth-Metals-Market-to-cross-20bn-by-2024-Global-Market-Insights-Inc.html
    While there is some cryptojacking, it isn't really that prevalent as a percentage of successful mining.  The big-time miners buy so much hardware as to cause problems for their local electric utility.

    Let's suppose that you can buy some GPUs for $500 each, and for each one you buy, you expect to make $2000 over the course of the next year by using them for mining Ethereum.  How many do you want to buy?

    If you really believe that it's going to work out, then the answer is, as many as you possibly can.  If you can find 100 GPUs to buy, you buy them all.  If you can find 1000 GPUs to buy, you still buy them all.  If you've got the funding ahead of time and can find 10,000 GPUs to buy, you still buy them all.  And then the gamers can't get any because you and the other miners bought them all.

    Rare earths have nothing to do with it.  At its peak, Ethereum had a market capitalization of $130 billion.  Yes, that's US dollars, and billion with a "b".  There's simply no way for AMD and Nvidia to keep up with that kind of demand.  Retailers figured out that they could charge double MSRP for their video cards and still sell them all, so they did.

    What if the price of cryptocurrencies drops so that you only expect that the value of what you mine will be just enough to cover the cost of the electricity to run the hardware?  Now how many do you want to buy?

    This time, the answer should be zero.  And furthermore, the GPUs that you already bought, you may want to start selling used to try to recover some value from them.  We might be heading in that direction.  Ethereum dropped by another 10% today, which will help.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,156
    So in other words if I had over 500 grand on hand what I should do is wait for a new cryptocurrency, then buy up all the highest end graphics cards and resell them for profit when the price spikes?
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Anything you might make when you cash out is someone else's loss
    Gdemami

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I'm not hedging on the success of any specific currency but I really hate seeing people say absolutely stupidly wrong things for the sake of their personal opinion. It seems to be the same brain surgeons too.

    To say crypto currency has "no backing" while search engines exist is the talk of an absolute imbecile. Calling all of them "ponzi-scheme" is imbecilic. You're upset because you can't buy a graphic card so you can play video games. I get it, still... don't be daft.

    It's new, the market is not regulated, and there's a lot of gambling going on. Naturally that causes sharks to circle the waters. It's still not intelligent to brush with broad strokes.

    The same companies you all bank with, buy processors from, and purchase fuel from are heavily vested in block chain AND crypto. It's not going anywhere any time soon. If you think the jackass who literally caused the Dow to drop 700+ points because "trade wars are easy" is gonna do ANY THING you're a fool. That's 2 more years of holding your breath right there. As long as there is some real tech and solid white paper behind some of these companies don't expect it all to disappear.

    I suggest you all strap the hell in, do some research and speak from a position of knowledge at the least.
    I think there will eventually be "official" crypto-currencies that are backed by governments and the banking system, but anyone who thinks unregulated crypto like bitcoin and ethereum will stand the test of time is living in fantasy land.  And all that's required to recognize that is a basic understanding of how currency works; no google-fu needed.
    So what do you call the crypto-currencies that are already backed by banks and governments?

    Repeating incorrect things over and over doesn't make them correct, it only makes you leader of the free world.


    I'd say you still don't know what the hell you're talking about because no such thing exists.

    Which crypto-currency is backed by the US government?  And if you don't understand why that matters, shut the fuck up now and stop wasting my time.
    I'd say you've been talking out your hind parts every time the topic gets brought up.  

    The same companies you all bank with, buy processors from, and purchase fuel from are heavily vested in block chain AND crypto.

    ^That's 100% fact.

    The information is available within a few keystrokes and button press, but you're clearly of the remedially educated ideologue ilk. Your "time" has 0 value.

    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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