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Let the pre-Alpha cash shop items flow...

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,915
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:


    Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Let's not forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 


    Right, so you bought your Foxcelot's with cash so you can breed them and sell them in game so it would undermine your purchase if someone else could do the same.

    Fully understand. 
    Well yes.. but it does not simply undermine the purchase. It is not so much a matter of their money investment, but having their faith validated. IE: They Put their Faith into the game before there was a game, buy buying these things, so they want their commitment  and faith validated, not simply the 20 dollars.

    Now, everyone else who also had that same faith could also get a Foxcelot, as well, but they would need to have believed in the product before there was a product, just like the others.

    Those that show up after there is a product (Those faithless that came only when they saw) don't deserve anything more then a game to play, and paying full price the privileged to do.

    It's simple to understand really.
    But the developer and most of those buying the advantages will not admit what you just posted is true.  If that was the official stance I could absolutely understand it.  Maybe not agree, but would understand.

    Eh.. I understand the developer wanting to keep things Politically Correct and all that jazz..

    But the players.. Eh.. I'd admit it. But then then no one accused me of trying to be diplomatic.

    True :)

    Ungood

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MendelMendel Member RarePosts: 2,372
    Mendel said:
    Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

    I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  
    I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

    I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

    Opening a cash shop with items like these once the game has launched, as we have discussed many times before in these forums, would be detrimental to the intended structure of the game. Though I am sure if they could find things that wouldn't hurt the game's design to put in a cash shop, the community wouldn't be opposed to the implementation post-launch store. 
    If any specific item would be "detrimental to the intended structure of the game", why would selling it prior to a non-wipe launch not also be detrimental?  That's just seems to be playing semantics.




    Ok, let me try to explain this once again. Those that are purchasing items beforehand are going to be the ones that are filling/building the world prior to launch. Once launch happens it will be players that are going to be the merchants, professionals, breeding pets/mounts, making equipment, tailoring, teaching apprentices. making jewelry, taming wild animals, building infrastructure ext... If those items are sold in a shop it would be harmful to the economies and the player's income. (No loot drops to acquire gold in)

    Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Don't forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 


    So, post launch my choice of careers will be limited because I didn't purchase them with cash prior to the game launching.  If that's not Pay to Win, I don't know if I've ever encountered if before.

    The question of why it is detrimental post-launch but not pre-launch remains unanswered.  Basically, the gist of what this 'explanation' provides is that the pre-launch will use these items in-game so it's not a detriment.  It is using at game mechanics (and monetization) to provide a paid-for experience of the game.  People who pay, get one game.  People who don't pay, get an entirely different game.  Protectionism didn't work well in the real world, why would it work in a game?

    Sorry, @Mystichaze, your explanation in that post has done more harm my interest in this game than anything that has come before.  I hope the developers are thankful to you for driving away potential customers.




    DleatherusKyleranAshyLarry24YashaXFrodoFragins

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 158
    Mendel said:

    So, post launch my choice of careers will be limited because I didn't purchase them with cash prior to the game launching.  If that's not Pay to Win, I don't know if I've ever encountered if before.

    The question of why it is detrimental post-launch but not pre-launch remains unanswered.  Basically, the gist of what this 'explanation' provides is that the pre-launch will use these items in-game so it's not a detriment.  It is using at game mechanics (and monetization) to provide a paid-for experience of the game.  People who pay, get one game.  People who don't pay, get an entirely different game.  Protectionism didn't work well in the real world, why would it work in a game?

    Sorry, @Mystichaze, your explanation in that post has done more harm my interest in this game than anything that has come before.  I hope the developers are thankful to you for driving away potential customers.




    erm ...no

    you can be whatever you want to be

    the difference is that before the game launches certain items that can be obtained in the game after launch, are being offered for sale in the cash shop for r/l money now to help fund development of the game

    once game launches, you will only be able to acquire them by  your in game activities

    same as any game you join after it has been out a few months and doesn't have a cash shop - if somebody has something you want, in game you can buy it, barter for it, make it yourself, find it, or steal it

    cash shops suck in my opinion, but in this particular scenario CoE won't be CoE without a prelaunch source of funding

    does it give those that paid for the items a head start? - without question - it's a similar disadvantage as joining any mmo after it has launched and playing catch up

    it's also a reason why games like pubg are popular - i love that game because i can jump in at anytime and it's about my skill as a player, not how long i have been grinding in game

    CoE isn't going to appeal to the impatient, or to the snowflake crowd who think everybody should get an easter egg during an easter egg hunt, or all hold hands and run across the finish line together so that nobody loses
    YashaX
  • WellspringWellspring Member RarePosts: 901
    Mendel said:

    So, post launch my choice of careers will be limited because I didn't purchase them with cash prior to the game launching.  If that's not Pay to Win, I don't know if I've ever encountered if before.

    The question of why it is detrimental post-launch but not pre-launch remains unanswered.  Basically, the gist of what this 'explanation' provides is that the pre-launch will use these items in-game so it's not a detriment.  It is using at game mechanics (and monetization) to provide a paid-for experience of the game.  People who pay, get one game.  People who don't pay, get an entirely different game.  Protectionism didn't work well in the real world, why would it work in a game?

    Sorry, @Mystichaze, your explanation in that post has done more harm my interest in this game than anything that has come before.  I hope the developers are thankful to you for driving away potential customers.




    erm ...no

    you can be whatever you want to be

    the difference is that before the game launches certain items that can be obtained in the game after launch, are being offered for sale in the cash shop for r/l money now to help fund development of the game

    once game launches, you will only be able to acquire them by  your in game activities

    same as any game you join after it has been out a few months and doesn't have a cash shop - if somebody has something you want, in game you can buy it, barter for it, make it yourself, find it, or steal it

    cash shops suck in my opinion, but in this particular scenario CoE won't be CoE without a prelaunch source of funding

    does it give those that paid for the items a head start? - without question - it's a similar disadvantage as joining any mmo after it has launched and playing catch up

    it's also a reason why games like pubg are popular - i love that game because i can jump in at anytime and it's about my skill as a player, not how long i have been grinding in game

    CoE isn't going to appeal to the impatient, or to the snowflake crowd who think everybody should get an easter egg during an easter egg hunt, or all hold hands and run across the finish line together so that nobody loses
    Who's it supposed to appeal to? All the millions of people who love starting races a mile behind the rest of the pack...
    KyleranMendelYashaX
    --------------------------------------------
  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 6,914
    edited March 13
    these 'arguments' and trains of logic are really illogical



     

    Post edited by Tiller on
    Dleatherus
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 158
    Who's it supposed to appeal to? All the millions of people who love starting races a mile behind the rest of the pack...
    anybody who can handle joining any mmo after day 1 and isn't starting with the exact same advantage as folks who started on day 1

    that would include the majority of folks who play mmo's (unknown)

    subtract the number of folks to whom CoE wouldn't appeal to for one reason or another (another unknown)

    it won't appeal to snowflakes, self-entitled drama queens and SJW's as much, and personally i'm good with that

    still leaves enough folks to donate $4 million to crowd funding that is maintaining a steady pace
    Kyleranmystichaze
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,915
    Who's it supposed to appeal to? All the millions of people who love starting races a mile behind the rest of the pack...
    anybody who can handle joining any mmo after day 1 and isn't starting with the exact same advantage as folks who started on day 1

    that would include the majority of folks who play mmo's (unknown)

    subtract the number of folks to whom CoE wouldn't appeal to for one reason or another (another unknown)

    it won't appeal to snowflakes, self-entitled drama queens and SJW's as much, and personally i'm good with that

    still leaves enough folks to donate $4 million to crowd funding that is maintaining a steady pace
    I'd take your words much more seriously if you weren't one of the top donors with the most pre-bought advantages.  Donate all the perks and start out after headstart with the rest of us deplorebles.

    Toss in your store bought crown and handmake a robe with me to roam the countryside and experience the game as a commoner!
    MendelYashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • WellspringWellspring Member RarePosts: 901
    Who's it supposed to appeal to? All the millions of people who love starting races a mile behind the rest of the pack...
    anybody who can handle joining any mmo after day 1 and isn't starting with the exact same advantage as folks who started on day 1

    that would include the majority of folks who play mmo's (unknown)

    subtract the number of folks to whom CoE wouldn't appeal to for one reason or another (another unknown)

    it won't appeal to snowflakes, self-entitled drama queens and SJW's as much, and personally i'm good with that

    still leaves enough folks to donate $4 million to crowd funding that is maintaining a steady pace
    The people who donated the $4 million so far are those who get to start 3 months early. So that number very well includes the snowflakes, drama queens, etc.

    It's the people who will join 3 months after the game is launched that remains to be seen. 

    I think the closest thing you could compare it to as a frame of reference is the influx of people joining SotA on their supposed "launch" day coming up, even though the last server wipe was months ago. 
    Mendel
    --------------------------------------------
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 29,332
    edited March 13
    I used to worry about others getting a head start but EVE taught me how little that matters with the right designs.

    Regardless of when I start there are always many who pull ahead of me so I've learned not to fret about it.

    What I usually try to do is join or align myself with such in game powers and "coast on their laurels."

    Anyone need a sycophant? 

    ;)
    Post edited by Kyleran on

    Ten types of internet trolls - Which one are you?

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon





  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 158
    edited March 13
    Kyleran said:
    I used to worry about others getting a head start but EVE taught me how little that matters with the right designs.

    Regardless of when I start there are always many who pull ahead of me so I've learned not to fret about it.

    What I usually try to do is join or align myself with such in game powers and "coast on their laurels."

    Anyone need a sycophant? 

    ;)
    rofl

    so true

    i joined EVE years after it started and with the way levelling of skills is handled in that game i could NEVER catch up

    didn't stop me from being successful. having a blast etc

    perhaps i should have spent my time on forums instead crying about the injustice of it all :P

    oh - btw - should the game make it to launch, you're more than welcome to join us - we're always looking for folks who can handle starting as an underdog, cause a little mayhem, be fine with us having some murder hobo groups etc (on our server we're the underdog kingdom who started about a year behind the lead kingdom - maybe i should cry about that also lol)
    Post edited by Dleatherus on
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 29,332
    Kyleran said:
    I used to worry about others getting a head start but EVE taught me how little that matters with the right designs.

    Regardless of when I start there are always many who pull ahead of me so I've learned not to fret about it.

    What I usually try to do is join or align myself with such in game powers and "coast on their laurels."

    Anyone need a sycophant? 

    ;)
    rofl

    so true

    i joined EVE years after it started and with the way levelling of skills is handled in that game i could NEVER catch up

    didn't stop me from being successful. having a blast etc

    perhaps i should have spent my time on forums instead crying about the injustice of it all :P

    oh - btw - should the game make it to launch, you're more than welcome to join us - we're always looking for folks who can handle starting as an underdog, cause a little mayhem, be fine with us having some murder hobo groups etc (on our server we're the underdog kingdom who started about a year behind the lead kingdom - maybe i should cry about that also lol)
    Sure I'll join,  as long as you can appreciate the comedy of losses caused by my number one foe, "death by recliner."  (lost more ships that way) 

    I joined EVE 3 years post launch,  but with training multiple accounts within 3 years I no longer felt disadvantaged in any way.

    These days no one really has any advantage, my characters are a match for any in game, its just the pilot behind the keyboard who impedes their success. 

    Ten types of internet trolls - Which one are you?

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon





  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 158
    I'd take your words much more seriously if you weren't one of the top donors with the most pre-bought advantages.  Donate all the perks and start out after headstart with the rest of us deplorebles.

    Toss in your store bought crown and handmake a robe with me to roam the countryside and experience the game as a commoner!
    i think that's a fair observation and comment

    tbh the actual monarch part in and of itself isn't that appealing to me (that's going to be a strange concept for some people to try and understand, and that's fine) - it's more of a pain in the arse than anything else

    if you join our discord you'll quickly find out that i don't like being called your majesty, or sire, or any other similar title

    if/when game launches my monarch character will basically only log in to handle the necessary bureaucracy (of which i am told there will be a shit ton of, much of which can thankfully be delegated to others)

    my 'main' character is going to be pvp oriented out on the front lines getting up to all kinds of shenanigans 

    i'll probably roll a third toon that nobody knows who the owner is and explore/prospect/cartography for those times when my antisocial side says 'fuck it' and i just want to solo

    so you're welcome to run with my 'main' toon who will just be a commoner, and who i will be playing the most on
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,915
    Every interaction with your “main” character is still going to be influenced by your Kingship.  

    Toss it all away and make that third character your only one and roam the hills with me.  Just announce that at the actual launch you will turn over the keys to the Kingdom to someone else and start a fresh and anonymous account in another land.

    Think of the fun we can have in our black robes proving we aren’t snowflakes!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,083
    Mendel said:
    Mendel said:
    Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

    I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  
    I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

    I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

    Opening a cash shop with items like these once the game has launched, as we have discussed many times before in these forums, would be detrimental to the intended structure of the game. Though I am sure if they could find things that wouldn't hurt the game's design to put in a cash shop, the community wouldn't be opposed to the implementation post-launch store. 
    If any specific item would be "detrimental to the intended structure of the game", why would selling it prior to a non-wipe launch not also be detrimental?  That's just seems to be playing semantics.




    Ok, let me try to explain this once again. Those that are purchasing items beforehand are going to be the ones that are filling/building the world prior to launch. Once launch happens it will be players that are going to be the merchants, professionals, breeding pets/mounts, making equipment, tailoring, teaching apprentices. making jewelry, taming wild animals, building infrastructure ext... If those items are sold in a shop it would be harmful to the economies and the player's income. (No loot drops to acquire gold in)

    Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Don't forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 


    So, post launch my choice of careers will be limited because I didn't purchase them with cash prior to the game launching.  If that's not Pay to Win, I don't know if I've ever encountered if before.

    The question of why it is detrimental post-launch but not pre-launch remains unanswered.  Basically, the gist of what this 'explanation' provides is that the pre-launch will use these items in-game so it's not a detriment.  It is using at game mechanics (and monetization) to provide a paid-for experience of the game.  People who pay, get one game.  People who don't pay, get an entirely different game.  Protectionism didn't work well in the real world, why would it work in a game?

    Sorry, @Mystichaze, your explanation in that post has done more harm my interest in this game than anything that has come before.  I hope the developers are thankful to you for driving away potential customers.




    Your choices will only be limited by who's back you stab and who's dick you suck.. Not how much you spend in the store.

    Not sure if that was a good sales pitch or not to be honest... I know it wouldn't sell me... 
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 158
    Every interaction with your “main” character is still going to be influenced by your Kingship.  

    Toss it all away and make that third character your only one and roam the hills with me.  Just announce that at the actual launch you will turn over the keys to the Kingdom to someone else and start a fresh and anonymous account in another land.

    Think of the fun we can have in our black robes proving we aren’t snowflakes!

    lol - last thing i think anybody can accuse me of is being a snowflake

    i'm used to playing with various disadvantages in a number of games

    take pubg as an example where ping is pretty important

    they just had an update yesterday and my conn is so bad this is what greeted me when i tried to update:



    in all fairness that was a particularly low conn, and it should be done in about 38 hours

    add in the fact that i am 60, without the keyboard skills that i am so envious of that the generations after mine grew up with  keyboards in their hands that using one is second nature (truth - we did math calculations on a slide ruler in my first years in the equivalent of high school)

    hrmmm - maybe i should campaign for everybody being reduced to the same ping and only allowed to type with two fingers so nobody else has an advantage over me?

    i don't wear rose-tinted glasses and spout 'make lemonade out of lemons' stuff - at the same time i realize that few things in life are fair or balanced.

    my main toon won't have any interaction in game with the monarch toon, though agreed they are controlled by the same person, and i grant that many folks will look upon him as being 'the king's alt'

    however, just like with my pubg community, am more than happy on my main toon to have others lead the group that are better skilled and situationally aware than i am

    so your call as to whether you want to join with us on that or not

    the third character as i said will be for soloing only

    WellspringYashaX
  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,083
    edited March 13
    Every interaction with your “main” character is still going to be influenced by your Kingship.  

    Toss it all away and make that third character your only one and roam the hills with me.  Just announce that at the actual launch you will turn over the keys to the Kingdom to someone else and start a fresh and anonymous account in another land.

    Think of the fun we can have in our black robes proving we aren’t snowflakes!

    Dude.. not being rude here, but if I just shelled out a few grand for a kingship, I would have no issues making you bow down and kiss my royal ass every day in game.. just saying.
    Post edited by Ungood on
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 5,463
    Mendel said:
    Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

    I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  
    I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

    I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

    Opening a cash shop with items like these once the game has launched, as we have discussed many times before in these forums, would be detrimental to the intended structure of the game. Though I am sure if they could find things that wouldn't hurt the game's design to put in a cash shop, the community wouldn't be opposed to the implementation post-launch store. 
    If any specific item would be "detrimental to the intended structure of the game", why would selling it prior to a non-wipe launch not also be detrimental?  That's just seems to be playing semantics.




    Ok, let me try to explain this once again. Those that are purchasing items beforehand are going to be the ones that are filling/building the world prior to launch. Once launch happens it will be players that are going to be the merchants, professionals, breeding pets/mounts, making equipment, tailoring, teaching apprentices. making jewelry, taming wild animals, building infrastructure ext... If those items are sold in a shop it would be harmful to the economies and the player's income. (No loot drops to acquire gold in)

    Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Don't forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 


    So why not take your most involved testers and bug finders and give them this chance, instead?  They will at least have some merit to their place.

    Of course, that wouldn't bring in the dough.  Methinks the items being sold are just as much about the allure they have on potential backers as it is about creating a full-featured world.

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,915
    Mendel said:
    Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

    I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  
    I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

    I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

    Opening a cash shop with items like these once the game has launched, as we have discussed many times before in these forums, would be detrimental to the intended structure of the game. Though I am sure if they could find things that wouldn't hurt the game's design to put in a cash shop, the community wouldn't be opposed to the implementation post-launch store. 
    If any specific item would be "detrimental to the intended structure of the game", why would selling it prior to a non-wipe launch not also be detrimental?  That's just seems to be playing semantics.




    Ok, let me try to explain this once again. Those that are purchasing items beforehand are going to be the ones that are filling/building the world prior to launch. Once launch happens it will be players that are going to be the merchants, professionals, breeding pets/mounts, making equipment, tailoring, teaching apprentices. making jewelry, taming wild animals, building infrastructure ext... If those items are sold in a shop it would be harmful to the economies and the player's income. (No loot drops to acquire gold in)

    Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Don't forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 


    So why not take your most involved testers and bug finders and give them this chance, instead?  They will at least have some merit to their place.

    Of course, that wouldn't bring in the dough.  Methinks the items being sold are just as much about the allure they have on potential backers as it is about creating a full-featured world.
    Well the official line was something along the line that the more people donated proved they were the kind of people that would make the game community great.  That went out the window at the very first opportunity when the very first name chosen (name reservation is a bought perk that goes in order of points) when the first guy trolled another players name and mortified the developer.
    MadFrenchie

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 6,914
    I just got back from the future and none of you know this but this game was canceled hard at the home stretch and no one go there money back or anything for their money.

    Funding had been misappropriated, (something about oxygen bars some hookers in Thailand and a vacation home in the Bahamas). They also found they just could not deliver what was promised technically.  They strung people along for a few years then their team went silent and boom, the site poofed. Some reddit sleuthing was done and people found out the game was canceled and the studio closed up shop.  In fact it led to the actual downfall of crowdfunding games and triggered a full scale FTC assault and laws against the practice within the US.

    Oh and Star Citizen did have a full launch, but it became a zoned survival space sim and did terribly; think SWTOR and Tabla Rasa, but worse. :D

    Don't ask me what eventually happened politically or about the alien contact event, no spoilers.


     (only satire) 



    Asm0deus
  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,083
    Mendel said:
    Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

    I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  
    I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

    I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

    Opening a cash shop with items like these once the game has launched, as we have discussed many times before in these forums, would be detrimental to the intended structure of the game. Though I am sure if they could find things that wouldn't hurt the game's design to put in a cash shop, the community wouldn't be opposed to the implementation post-launch store. 
    If any specific item would be "detrimental to the intended structure of the game", why would selling it prior to a non-wipe launch not also be detrimental?  That's just seems to be playing semantics.




    Ok, let me try to explain this once again. Those that are purchasing items beforehand are going to be the ones that are filling/building the world prior to launch. Once launch happens it will be players that are going to be the merchants, professionals, breeding pets/mounts, making equipment, tailoring, teaching apprentices. making jewelry, taming wild animals, building infrastructure ext... If those items are sold in a shop it would be harmful to the economies and the player's income. (No loot drops to acquire gold in)

    Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Don't forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 


    So why not take your most involved testers and bug finders and give them this chance, instead?  They will at least have some merit to their place.

    Of course, that wouldn't bring in the dough.  Methinks the items being sold are just as much about the allure they have on potential backers as it is about creating a full-featured world.
    Well the official line was something along the line that the more people donated proved they were the kind of people that would make the game community great.  That went out the window at the very first opportunity when the very first name chosen (name reservation is a bought perk that goes in order of points) when the first guy trolled another players name and mortified the developer.
    Well. people are assholes.. but even an Assholes Faith in your Product should be respected.
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member EpicPosts: 18,920
    Cool, already sounds like the foxcelot is being well received. 

    I'm pretty excited, especially with how successful the last sale was. I was beginning to get worried about the lack of income, but it's now seeming like they might be able to extend this without going to publisher for awhile.  
    I will say it again.  Shutting the cash shop at launch is a big mistake.  They are literally selling millions of dollars of items before launch... shutting it down just cuts off revenue that they desperately need.

    I'll always prefer no cash shop at all, but having one that lets people buy millions of dollars of items before launch and then shutting it just seems like the worst of all worlds.

    Not if the game stays in early access forever.
    KyleranVrika
  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 351


    Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Let's not forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 


    Right, so you bought your Foxcelot's with cash so you can breed them and sell them in game so it would undermine your purchase if someone else could do the same.

    Fully understand. 
    Hmm, and if I don't take care of them they just die off. Seriously if you don't understand the concept of the game, go find another game to play. No need for you to spend so much time trying to twist things into your perspective in an attempt to turn folks from a game that you apparently were so upset about because of layoffs. Your logic in different threads makes absolutely no sense Slap. 
    YashaX
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member RarePosts: 2,324
    Mendel said:
    ...snip...




    Ok, let me try to explain this once again. Those that are purchasing items beforehand are going to be the ones that are filling/building the world prior to launch. Once launch happens it will be players that are going to be the merchants, professionals, breeding pets/mounts, making equipment, tailoring, teaching apprentices. making jewelry, taming wild animals, building infrastructure ext... If those items are sold in a shop it would be harmful to the economies and the player's income. (No loot drops to acquire gold in)

    Let's take the Foxcelot for example, say I buy a male and female so that I can breed them for resale purposes. (Don't forget they do grow old and die, plus they need to be feed so they don't starve to death). If a store was to sell them after launch it would take away from my chosen profession. 


    So, post launch my choice of careers will be limited because I didn't purchase them with cash prior to the game launching.  If that's not Pay to Win, I don't know if I've ever encountered if before.

    The question of why it is detrimental post-launch but not pre-launch remains unanswered.  Basically, the gist of what this 'explanation' provides is that the pre-launch will use these items in-game so it's not a detriment.  It is using at game mechanics (and monetization) to provide a paid-for experience of the game.  People who pay, get one game.  People who don't pay, get an entirely different game.  Protectionism didn't work well in the real world, why would it work in a game?

    Sorry, @Mystichaze, your explanation in that post has done more harm my interest in this game than anything that has come before.  I hope the developers are thankful to you for driving away potential customers.




    It's fairly simple really.

    They are allowing p2w pre launch because they want people that join at launch or post launch to enter a world that's already "alive" with established kingdoms, trades and a somewhat working if newish economy.

    They are allowing pre launch p2w with the explanation or idea that otherwise if everyone started at zero at launch (no kings, barons, mayors, tradesmen, farmers or economy) or if there was a wipe then it would be like everyone would have to start from caveman era and it would take a long time to get shit rolling so to speak.

    They do not want to sell these p2w stuff post launch as they think or hope that what was sold pre launch with the addition of post launch peoples and their in game actions will be enough to sustain this closed world system/economy/biome and allowing more sales post launch would kill this fledgling world or biome or closed loop system.

    You will be able to do everything others have paid pre launch to do, you will just have to start from the bottom rung of the ladder and work your way up in game whereas they allowed people prelaunch to pay to skip ahead, which is how they are funding the game, with what I wrote above as their reasoning.

    It does make sense but I feel they are grossly underestimating how awful people can be and how much the pre launch people will troll and how difficult it will be for anyone joining post launch to "catch up" or be able to compete fairly with them.



    KyleranUngoodMendel

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.

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  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member UncommonPosts: 291
    This is a game that's been on my radar since it was announced, I feel the same way about this one as I do crowfall. Love the thought, pvp, whatever else behind it but these cash shops put a giant red flag on it. You are paying for an advantage in a pvp game, its not going to go well in the long run.
    Scot
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member RarePosts: 2,032
    Who cares?  Don't like it?  Don't buy it.
    mystichazeKyleranIselinYashaX
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