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Let the pre-Alpha cash shop items flow...

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,566
    Kyleran said:
    The great and mightily smart Snipehunter decided to weigh in and give us some insight for the "cdg" on the battlefield discussion

    Direct quote:

    "So, I'm not going to answer this question just yet. Let me ask a few ethical questions, instead:

    Should executing your opponent be an honorable thing to do on a battlefield?

    Is the goal of war really to kill the enemy or is to force a resolution to a conflict in your side's favor?

    Now, in most battles, you want to remove the enemy combatants from the battlefield, which does mean killing them, but it doesn't have to mean that in CoE thanks to the way our death system works. We could, for example, extend the incapacitation time in battlefields so that you don't have to CDG someone to ensure they can't return in time to rejoin the battle.

    What I'm getting at with these questions is that our system means there are ethical implications to delivering a CDG, even in war: You can murder that enemy so you know they aren't coming back anytime soon, but should you? Are you really the hero, when you could have simply incapacitated them to accomplish much the same effect?

    I'm curious how you all feel about it."

    You can check out the whole thread here:

    http://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/24591/penalty-for-killing-on-the-battlefield?page=1#31

    Glad to help you guys start the discussion!


    Also.. pre-determined battlegrounds?  WTF? 
    On Tuesday from 7-8 here is the box you guys can fight in?  Will there be signups? 
    I wonder if these guys have ever seriously played a territory control PvP game...
    :p

    EVE does. From very narrow windows of attack (4 hrs) which are determined by the defenders, to requiring at least two assaults a day or so apart to take a shielded target down.

    Even CCP knows surprise attacks at a time when most defenders aren't around is a terrible idea.

    Also, for really big fleet fights alliances schedule the day, time and place and CCP sets up special hardware to manage the heavy load.

    They also have mechanics where if a corporations Citadel is destroyed their belongings are evacd to a station in low sec.
    Sieging has always been a bit different in games.  But that's because nobody wants to lose their stuff overnight.   That's different from just having to plan out every military engagement at a set time and place though.  Far different.  Remember, this is about being invulnerable to a death penalty because 2 or more kingdoms are at "war". Not sieging a town which yes.. often has some sort of timing mechanism built around the lore (Tree of life in Shadowbane...)

    But outside of that the "war" raged 24/7

    Kyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 362
    back to good discussion nice...

    Maybe SBS are planning on having "arranged" pitched battles with no death penalty and then other combat during war includes death penalty??

    It would allow better hardware for the battle area just like alliance combat on eve
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 2,946
    The great and mightily smart Snipehunter decided to weigh in and give us some insight for the "cdg" on the battlefield discussion

    Direct quote:

    "So, I'm not going to answer this question just yet. Let me ask a few ethical questions, instead:

    Should executing your opponent be an honorable thing to do on a battlefield?

    Is the goal of war really to kill the enemy or is to force a resolution to a conflict in your side's favor?

    Now, in most battles, you want to remove the enemy combatants from the battlefield, which does mean killing them, but it doesn't have to mean that in CoE thanks to the way our death system works. We could, for example, extend the incapacitation time in battlefields so that you don't have to CDG someone to ensure they can't return in time to rejoin the battle.

    What I'm getting at with these questions is that our system means there are ethical implications to delivering a CDG, even in war: You can murder that enemy so you know they aren't coming back anytime soon, but should you? Are you really the hero, when you could have simply incapacitated them to accomplish much the same effect?

    I'm curious how you all feel about it."

    You can check out the whole thread here:

    http://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/24591/penalty-for-killing-on-the-battlefield?page=1#31

    Glad to help you guys start the discussion!


    Also.. pre-determined battlegrounds?  WTF? 
    On Tuesday from 7-8 here is the box you guys can fight in?  Will there be signups? 
    I wonder if these guys have ever seriously played a territory control PvP game...
    :p

    PWE uses that exact mechanism for guild-vs-guild wars.  Register for a date/time/zone, then viola!  A battle ensues.  The victor gets control of the zone in question.  Is anyone really hoping for a PWE-clone?




    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • MMOPlayer7654MMOPlayer7654 Member CommonPosts: 2
    Probly the biggest Pay 2 Win game i have seen in a long time.  Its sure not for the poor people.

    Some have spent $5,000...$10,000, $15,000-$20,000 + on their in game advantages.  Masses of land, will have tons of NPC's at their disposal, Legendary items made by the devs for their own use.    List goes on and on.



    If you want to drop a chunk of cash to be ahead of all the Plebs ?  This game is for you.  Starting to make Archeage look like the Dollar Store.

    Don't forget!  Hop in now and you can start the game with 10 sets of armor and weapons + a Boat for $300!


    Or Get your EP now.   Buy up all the land you can that will not be subject to ingame taxes if you buy it early with Real $$.


    Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,566
    I do not know about the tax stuff. I think taxes are set by the Kings (who yes, did buy their positions).

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,483
    Probly the biggest Pay 2 Win game i have seen in a long time.  Its sure not for the poor people.

    Some have spent $5,000...$10,000, $15,000-$20,000 + on their in game advantages.  Masses of land, will have tons of NPC's at their disposal, Legendary items made by the devs for their own use.    List goes on and on.



    If you want to drop a chunk of cash to be ahead of all the Plebs ?  This game is for you.  Starting to make Archeage look like the Dollar Store.

    Don't forget!  Hop in now and you can start the game with 10 sets of armor and weapons + a Boat for $300!


    Or Get your EP now.   Buy up all the land you can that will not be subject to ingame taxes if you buy it early with Real $$.


    Too late really, all the land AFIK, is already sold off, maybe there might be one Kingdom left.

    Anyway, I could argue that is it is not really P2W, but why waste time and accomplish nothing anyway, when I can just agree with you and allow all the broke gamers looking for a free ride to pass on this game.

    But, at the end of the day, the P2W in this game does not bother me, which is really what it all boils down to, what you are willing to deal with. 

    If this is not the game for you, then, so be it, it's not the game for you. I hope you find a game more your liking.
  • AnOldFartAnOldFart Member UncommonPosts: 362
    edited May 2018
    I was all for this game now im not interested at all.
    Slapshot1188Gdemami
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 255
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,240
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    ScotGdemami

    image
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 255
    edited July 2018
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    MadFrenchieSlapshot1188
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Slapshot1188DakeruGdemami
    --------------------------------------------
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,566
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    I don't think you understand what an "advantage" means...
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 10,923
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    That's questionable, but from what I have gathered about CoE it probably applies here. At some stage the cash shop will open, maybe only with different items, if you don't believe that check your window for flying pigs. :)

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,566
    Scot said:
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    That's questionable, but from what I have gathered about CoE it probably applies here. At some stage the cash shop will open, maybe only with different items, if you don't believe that check your window for flying pigs. :)
    It kind of already has.   Previously it was understood that everything you bought prior to launch would be used in their 3 month no-wipe headstart for high rollers.  Just recently however, they announced that stuff you buy in the store can be held and used AFTER launch.  It's a massive distinction and totally blows apart the whole "Pay to Build" crap that was spouted.

    MadFrenchieKyleranGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,324
    I'd agree with the P2W argument if this game was a story of a poor peasant who reaches nobility and wealth by his/her own hands. Alas, world doesn't work that way, not even a virtual world.

    If you could create a character class 'king' or 'duke' and get all the privileges related to nobles there would be at least as many members of a royal family as there was craftsmen and hunters in the game. Again, an illusion of a virtual fantasy world would break.

    The only way is to set prices for each character class according to their numbers in functional society. It's an ambitious goal and we still don't know if it makes the game any fun or not, but that's what they've planned to do since the game went to development.

    That being said, should they add an item shop or real money exchange service in the game the illusion goes down the drain. Kings and barons need farmers, builders, tanners, painters, tailors, etc. and if you could buy the products made be them on an item shop the game becomes pointless.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,566
    edited July 2018
    deniter said:
    I'd agree with the P2W argument if this game was a story of a poor peasant who reaches nobility and wealth by his/her own hands. Alas, world doesn't work that way, not even a virtual world.

    If you could create a character class 'king' or 'duke' and get all the privileges related to nobles there would be at least as many members of a royal family as there was craftsmen and hunters in the game. Again, an illusion of a virtual fantasy world would break.

    The only way is to set prices for each character class according to their numbers in functional society. It's an ambitious goal and we still don't know if it makes the game any fun or not, but that's what they've planned to do since the game went to development.

    That being said, should they add an item shop or real money exchange service in the game the illusion goes down the drain. Kings and barons need farmers, builders, tanners, painters, tailors, etc. and if you could buy the products made be them on an item shop the game becomes pointless.
    Some of the things you can buy or could have bought in the store (and which can be redeemed after the game goes live):

    Pets
    Mounts (including Pure Breed)
    Warmounts
    Wagon
    Ships (from rowboats to raiders and cutters)
    Raiding equipment to outfit a 10 man party in armor and weapons
    Cottages
    Colony Starter Kits
    Livestock Starter
    Prize Livestock
    Seed packs
    Textile Packs

    Then you can also buy soul packs which have a chance to have an "old soul" with a higher skill ramp.

    That's just off the top of my head.   It's not JUST about buying titles and land.  

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,324
    deniter said:
    I'd agree with the P2W argument if this game was a story of a poor peasant who reaches nobility and wealth by his/her own hands. Alas, world doesn't work that way, not even a virtual world.

    If you could create a character class 'king' or 'duke' and get all the privileges related to nobles there would be at least as many members of a royal family as there was craftsmen and hunters in the game. Again, an illusion of a virtual fantasy world would break.

    The only way is to set prices for each character class according to their numbers in functional society. It's an ambitious goal and we still don't know if it makes the game any fun or not, but that's what they've planned to do since the game went to development.

    That being said, should they add an item shop or real money exchange service in the game the illusion goes down the drain. Kings and barons need farmers, builders, tanners, painters, tailors, etc. and if you could buy the products made be them on an item shop the game becomes pointless.
    Some of the things you can buy or could have bought in the store (and which can be redeemed after the game goes live):

    Pets
    Mounts (including Pure Breed)
    Warmounts
    Wagon
    Ships (from rowboats to raiders and cutters)
    Raiding equipment to outfit a 10 man party in armor and weapons
    Cottages
    Colony Starter Kits
    Livestock Starter
    Prize Livestock
    Seed packs
    Textile Packs

    Then you can also buy soul packs which have a chance to have an "old soul" with a higher skill ramp.

    That's just off the top of my head.   It's not JUST about buying titles and land.  

    And right there they'll lose it. Everything should be craftable and sold in a free market. If players can have roles of kings and get benefits for being ones, the same should also apply to other roles.

    I'm still following the game but i'll definitely refuse to play if it gets CS heavy. They have a very interesting concept but it can be easily ruined by greed.
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 2,946
    deniter said:
    deniter said:
    I'd agree with the P2W argument if this game was a story of a poor peasant who reaches nobility and wealth by his/her own hands. Alas, world doesn't work that way, not even a virtual world.

    If you could create a character class 'king' or 'duke' and get all the privileges related to nobles there would be at least as many members of a royal family as there was craftsmen and hunters in the game. Again, an illusion of a virtual fantasy world would break.

    The only way is to set prices for each character class according to their numbers in functional society. It's an ambitious goal and we still don't know if it makes the game any fun or not, but that's what they've planned to do since the game went to development.

    That being said, should they add an item shop or real money exchange service in the game the illusion goes down the drain. Kings and barons need farmers, builders, tanners, painters, tailors, etc. and if you could buy the products made be them on an item shop the game becomes pointless.
    Some of the things you can buy or could have bought in the store (and which can be redeemed after the game goes live):

    Pets
    Mounts (including Pure Breed)
    Warmounts
    Wagon
    Ships (from rowboats to raiders and cutters)
    Raiding equipment to outfit a 10 man party in armor and weapons
    Cottages
    Colony Starter Kits
    Livestock Starter
    Prize Livestock
    Seed packs
    Textile Packs

    Then you can also buy soul packs which have a chance to have an "old soul" with a higher skill ramp.

    That's just off the top of my head.   It's not JUST about buying titles and land.  

    And right there they'll lose it. Everything should be craftable and sold in a free market. If players can have roles of kings and get benefits for being ones, the same should also apply to other roles.

    I'm still following the game but i'll definitely refuse to play *if* it gets CS heavy. They have a very interesting concept but it can be easily ruined by greed.
    Is this thread still going?  How?  Or better, why?

    @deniter I think most of us have already replaced the *if* with *when*, if not *once*.  If you would have bought a boat, you'd notice the CS option sailed long ago.



    Slapshot1188

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,324
    Mendel said:
    deniter said:
    deniter said:
    I'd agree with the P2W argument if this game was a story of a poor peasant who reaches nobility and wealth by his/her own hands. Alas, world doesn't work that way, not even a virtual world.

    If you could create a character class 'king' or 'duke' and get all the privileges related to nobles there would be at least as many members of a royal family as there was craftsmen and hunters in the game. Again, an illusion of a virtual fantasy world would break.

    The only way is to set prices for each character class according to their numbers in functional society. It's an ambitious goal and we still don't know if it makes the game any fun or not, but that's what they've planned to do since the game went to development.

    That being said, should they add an item shop or real money exchange service in the game the illusion goes down the drain. Kings and barons need farmers, builders, tanners, painters, tailors, etc. and if you could buy the products made be them on an item shop the game becomes pointless.
    Some of the things you can buy or could have bought in the store (and which can be redeemed after the game goes live):

    Pets
    Mounts (including Pure Breed)
    Warmounts
    Wagon
    Ships (from rowboats to raiders and cutters)
    Raiding equipment to outfit a 10 man party in armor and weapons
    Cottages
    Colony Starter Kits
    Livestock Starter
    Prize Livestock
    Seed packs
    Textile Packs

    Then you can also buy soul packs which have a chance to have an "old soul" with a higher skill ramp.

    That's just off the top of my head.   It's not JUST about buying titles and land.  

    And right there they'll lose it. Everything should be craftable and sold in a free market. If players can have roles of kings and get benefits for being ones, the same should also apply to other roles.

    I'm still following the game but i'll definitely refuse to play *if* it gets CS heavy. They have a very interesting concept but it can be easily ruined by greed.
    Is this thread still going?  How?  Or better, why?

    @deniter I think most of us have already replaced the *if* with *when*, if not *once*.  If you would have bought a boat, you'd notice the CS option sailed long ago.



    I guess you're right. The little boy inside me still hopes the company would reconsider their strategy and have second thoughts regarding cash shop.

    Too bad they all turn out to be the same crap as their predecessors. :(
    Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,566
    deniter said:
    Mendel said:
    deniter said:
    deniter said:
    I'd agree with the P2W argument if this game was a story of a poor peasant who reaches nobility and wealth by his/her own hands. Alas, world doesn't work that way, not even a virtual world.

    If you could create a character class 'king' or 'duke' and get all the privileges related to nobles there would be at least as many members of a royal family as there was craftsmen and hunters in the game. Again, an illusion of a virtual fantasy world would break.

    The only way is to set prices for each character class according to their numbers in functional society. It's an ambitious goal and we still don't know if it makes the game any fun or not, but that's what they've planned to do since the game went to development.

    That being said, should they add an item shop or real money exchange service in the game the illusion goes down the drain. Kings and barons need farmers, builders, tanners, painters, tailors, etc. and if you could buy the products made be them on an item shop the game becomes pointless.
    Some of the things you can buy or could have bought in the store (and which can be redeemed after the game goes live):

    Pets
    Mounts (including Pure Breed)
    Warmounts
    Wagon
    Ships (from rowboats to raiders and cutters)
    Raiding equipment to outfit a 10 man party in armor and weapons
    Cottages
    Colony Starter Kits
    Livestock Starter
    Prize Livestock
    Seed packs
    Textile Packs

    Then you can also buy soul packs which have a chance to have an "old soul" with a higher skill ramp.

    That's just off the top of my head.   It's not JUST about buying titles and land.  

    And right there they'll lose it. Everything should be craftable and sold in a free market. If players can have roles of kings and get benefits for being ones, the same should also apply to other roles.

    I'm still following the game but i'll definitely refuse to play *if* it gets CS heavy. They have a very interesting concept but it can be easily ruined by greed.
    Is this thread still going?  How?  Or better, why?

    @deniter I think most of us have already replaced the *if* with *when*, if not *once*.  If you would have bought a boat, you'd notice the CS option sailed long ago.



    I guess you're right. The little boy inside me still hopes the company would reconsider their strategy and have second thoughts regarding cash shop.

    Too bad they all turn out to be the same crap as their predecessors. :(
    There is no going back now.  They have sold items that they said you can redeem after launch.  If they reverse policy they would then need to offer refunds (IMHO).  Since they had to lay off folks at the end of last year I doubt they are in a financial position to do that.

    We will see what they sell after launch, but the whole Pay to Build thing was blown out of the water the second they allow pre-launch purchases to be redeemed later.

    There is a GREAT write up by one of their longtime diehard followers. Excerpts below:

    The ability to purchase anything be it seed packs or raider ships flies in the face of the stated goal above of pay to build. The persistence of these tokens removes the argument that anything purchased with real world funds would be used to build the world in Exposistion.

    Anyone who thinks a little outside the box can see how this setup can be exploited. Example.

    Snipehunter called tokens gift cards and stated a pc merchant who accepts one will be compensated in coinage for the tokens use. Following that logic the token is now not only valuable in terms of items but also in coin.

    Assuming a set value of 100 coins for a raider ship, I can redeem my token to myself (or my shipwright alt) and my alt now has 100 coins and I have a ship. Instead I just trade the ship back and take the coins with my main.

    I just bought coins from the cash shop.

    This brings back memories of when SBS was going to allow people to buy gold back in the day but changed the system because it smacked of pay to win. Using a little thought and planning we can now buy coins once more.

    Conversely let’s think about the set value in coins of each token. In an area where wood is scarce the value of a raider ship could be as much as 1000 coins yet the token if it has a set value is only 100 the merchant either takes a loss if the game doesn’t adjust the value, or if it does using my pervious example I just purchased 1000 coins from the cash shop.

    If the value of redemption on the tokens is based on the price set by the merchant you can see how easily it would be to exploit the system and end up with tons of coins. Sure everything can be stolen but do you think an organized gamer guild would pass up the chance to make a fortune and have members on site to help with transport and defense? Conversely if a merchant has to accept a token if they have the stock if the tokens value is less than the base production cost in a given area the merchant could be driven out of business by accepting these tokens.

    Snipehunter states SBS is aware of the impact and is tracking the tokens but given the sheer number of items available and the time between now and launch something will be exploited.

    This leads me back to my issue with this system. We can explain to other new folks that expo isn’t the live version of the game. We are in essence customizing the game with real world money. Even the game rules won’t be fully in effect during expo (pvp and crime being slowly added so the world can be built before its destroyed). This to me makes perfect sense with the pay to build philosophy mentioned by Caspian. However persistent tokens for everything from food to ships and weapons... this is a much harder sell and frankly even if it is exploit proof, the persistent tokens seem like a complete 180 on the whole pay to build idea.

    deniterAnOldFartGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 255
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    Ungood
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 255
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    I don't think you understand what an "advantage" means...
    Clearly, since you have twisted the meaning of the word so much that it has no relevance to the game.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    The scarcity of nobility makes it even more P2W, not less.
    Only if the purpose of the game is to become nobility, which it isn't.
    Mmhmm... please tell me, what is the purpose of the game then? Whatever you come up with, it can be bought in their cash shop. 
    --------------------------------------------
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,566
    Vrika said:
    I really don't get this issue with "advantage". Only a small percentage of players can ever be nobles. The vast majority would never experience it regardless of whether it is sold or not.
    It's not advantage if you can't get it without real-money purchase?

    That's one of the most stupid fanboy arguments I've ever heard.
    No, I said if there is an advantage then it will only affect a minority of players because even if you cannot buy a title most players will never have one regardless.

    Maybe you should read posts properly before shooting your mouth off.
    And yet, the rarity of owning a title is one of the very things that plays psychologically into a consumer's decision to purchase them.
    And yet, still the minority of players.
    I don't think you understand what an "advantage" means...
    Clearly, since you have twisted the meaning of the word so much that it has no relevance to the game.
    The meaning of the word per Merriam-Webster: 1.  superiority of position or condition 

    The "minority" of players being established as the rulers of the land before launch... NAH... that's not a favorable or superior position right?  Who's REALLY trying to twist the meaning of the word here?

    That's not even touching all the in-game items, pets, mounts, weapons/armor, resources, blueprints etc... that you can buy for real cash and use AFTER launch.
    GdemamiAxllow18

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • some-clueless-guysome-clueless-guy Member UncommonPosts: 188
    Chronicles of Elyria, a game where you can forge your destiny and where ALL PLAYERS ARE EQUAL BUT SOME PLAYERS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS.
    WellspringSlapshot1188
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